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Lack of an Auction House isn't unique, it's annoying
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Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭It's gonna be interesting to see what happens when we got mostly V12 trading guilds and then some new players think it might be a better idea to run their own trading guild. Even when they could afford the prices of V12 guilds, it would be only possible to those who do some smart trading and are lucky enough to secure them one of the few open spots.
So naturally they would want lower prices and would get lower prices by just trading between themselves, but for how long would that work? Low prices is something hard to resist. I fear we might see some serious exploiting of low levels by high level traders, if the trade system remains exclusive and doesn't go public on a much broader scale.
Mind you, a global AH isn't really needed for that."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"2 -
Guldendraak✭✭Actually, not having an AH means the gold sellers are forming trading guilds, getting people to join and then letting the players farm gold for them in the form of the Guild Tax you pay when you sell items through your guild.
And there's nothing ZOS can do to determine whether the trading guild you are in is run by a silent gold farmer or just a normal player.
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SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭As I've said before: Everything Gold/Mat Farmers do on WoW through the auction house they're just doing through /zone as it stands. This systems does nothing to prevent them from operating, and it just makes the people who want to have a good time have to work around all their roadblocks. As I've said before, it's the DRM problem.
People who pirate games/music/books/movies will do it every time no matter how much you try to stop them. All you do when you ramp up DRM is hurt the people who just want to enjoy the content.1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Guldendraak wrote: »Actually, not having an AH means the gold sellers are forming trading guilds, getting people to join and then letting the players farm gold for them in the form of the Guild Tax you pay when you sell items through your guild.
And there's nothing ZOS can do to determine whether the trading guild you are in is run by a silent gold farmer or just a normal player.
Actually, guild tax goes to oblivion and is a very misleading title. Doesn't change the fact that there probably are gold seller run trading guilds, but for other reasons. Buying low, selling high works just fine between pocket economies, better than on a global AH. Even more so, if it's the only thing you're doing and you've automated the process. Farm guilds, switch guilds, sell on your own, chat or website - rinse, repeat.SunfireKnight86 wrote: »As I've said before: Everything Gold/Mat Farmers do on WoW through the auction house they're just doing through /zone as it stands. This systems does nothing to prevent them from operating, and it just makes the people who want to have a good time have to work around all their roadblocks. As I've said before, it's the DRM problem.
People who pirate games/music/books/movies will do it every time no matter how much you try to stop them. All you do when you ramp up DRM is hurt the people who just want to enjoy the content.
It should be very clear by now that this guild store system does absolutely nothing to prevent gold farmers to make their money, quite the contrary. Instead of just selling gold, they are selling crafting mats and items in bulk for real money, because they aren't readily available in the in game economy and just so easy to farm for them."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"2 -
Milky✭✭✭I absolutely LOVE not having an auction house. It severely lowers the amount of people playing the market just to make a buck and over-inflating prices falsely. It gives incentives for people to go out and get the things themselves, or working with guild mates for it. I find myself sharing with people a lot more in this game than I ever did in MMOs with auction houses.2
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felixgamingx1✭✭✭✭You missing 30% of what the game has to offer if you don't join 1 single guild at least1 -
Sev✭✭Why do the anti-AH crowd always assume there's no middle ground between cruddy little guild stores and one giant megaserver-wide AH?
There are ways to split the market up into manageable chunks. My suggestion was to have one auction house for each PvP campaign, but that's only one possibility. There are plenty of others.
So please, stop insisting that the only alternative to the current system is ESO-Walmart. It's just not true.2 -
SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭I'm in a lot of them, including a very very good one. That isn't making selling an easier. 90% of my sales come from /zone.1
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SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭Even a HUGE expansion on the guild store system like they're suggesting won't fix the fact that I'll have to go to 50 kiosks to hunt through stuff and I'll still be able to sell faster in /zone. AH is the best system. Once again, there is a reason literally every other MMO has one.
Seems to me they were trying to mimic the EVE system and failed miserably.Edited by SunfireKnight86 on May 7, 2014 2:20AM0 -
Endolith✭✭✭SunfireKnight86 wrote: »AH is the best system. Once again, there is a reason literally every other MMO has one.
Every other MMO isn't on a megaserver, though. I could see where that might cause some issues. Still, there are solutions: faction-specific AH; zone-specific AH (or even AH across a few zones; and so on).0 -
SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭EVE is. Technical issues is the least excusable reason not to have an AH. It's their job to get something like that working. Others have managed it just fine.Edited by SunfireKnight86 on May 7, 2014 3:15AM4
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MajikMyst✭✭✭Mega servers with micro stores.. Go figure..
There is no reason not to have a server wide AH.. Guild stores was a bad idea in the beta and it still is.. There is absolutely no reason we shouldn't have an auction house type system.. It is actually hurting the game that we don't..Edited by MajikMyst on May 7, 2014 3:15AM5 -
Nephys✭✭✭Guild Wars is also on a megaserver so this is not simply a technical issue. However, as Endolith acknowledges, there are other solutions. I hate being forced into a guild to trade, so I simply don't bother with it. Currently it works fine for me, but if 'finance' was ever to start being an issue then I would look for another game rather than deal with the dire system in place now.ZoS Ambassadors please do not bother responding to me because I have you on ignore. Your input is neither valued or welcomed.3
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Orizuru✭✭✭SunfireKnight86 wrote: »NaciremaDiputs wrote: »ignoroticb14_ESO wrote: »ignoroticb14_ESO wrote: »It's funny, even without an AH, there are more bots in this game than any other mmo I've ever played.
You clearly didn't play any big mmo ....
Yeah...wrong. I've played most big name MMOs since SWG. I've never seen an mmo where there are multiple 10 character bots trains in a zone. Last night in the rift I personally watched something like 50 bots farm the moonless walk. No, I'm not exaggerating. It was impossible to count how many because they run in a pack, but there were at least 4 trains of 10+ bots, and that was only in the small area I was questing.
I can't see oxygen, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. It's all about perspective.
lol wut
1+1 = 2
I'm sorry if my logic and reasoning are going over your head.
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Darzil✭✭✭
Indeed, there are all sorts of ways to separate out smaller groups of players without making players do all the legwork of it.Why do the anti-AH crowd always assume there's no middle ground between cruddy little guild stores and one giant megaserver-wide AH?
There are ways to split the market up into manageable chunks. My suggestion was to have one auction house for each PvP campaign, but that's only one possibility. There are plenty of others.
So please, stop insisting that the only alternative to the current system is ESO-Walmart. It's just not true.
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crush83✭✭✭✭The anti-AH crowd are just fanboys who are desperately trying to prevent the demise of this ***-poor attempt at an MMO through attempting to refute anything that could be construed negatively.Edited by crush83 on May 7, 2014 1:39PM4
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Kililin✭✭✭✭SunfireKnight86 wrote: »An inefficient economy is better than one ruled by bots flooding an auction house at the lowest price, because they don't care about their bottom line in the game. All they care about is getting gold to sell to someone outside the game, and they can just add more bots if the price of resources falls.
I would rather them have to be in zone chat to try and sell everything and it take them hours upon hours to do so. Also it makes them, either each account individually or the central merchant account everything is funneled to to sell, exposed and more likely to be caught.
Punish real players to inconvenience bots? That's a terrible business model.
But it is what they are doing, another example is the *** Boss Timer, which has done nothing about the bots just made them more annoying and punished real players.
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Silestia✭A global AH system would kind of streamline the entire process of playing the game, I could spend more time doing the fun stuff like running dungeons or wandering the world doing random good deeds and less time reading zone chat looking for someone who is buying stuff I actually have on me.2 -
NextGame✭✭There should be a global AH
Failing that some kind of item bounty board, where you pick an item, set a quantity and enter an amount of gold that you are willing to pay for that listing (the board holds that gold until the listing times out or is fulfilled), which players can then elect to fulfil and be paid for by having the requested items in their inventory and clicking the appropriate option on the board.
The current implementation is borderline idiotic when you consider that "trade" guild population will drop off with subs, and there is no real way to monitor active/inactive players, leaving them dead in the water.
Similarly, I and many others have no interest in "socialising" (hint: the current economy structure does nothing for this) with other players via the format of spamming zone chat with WTS & WTB.0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Failing that some kind of item bounty board, where you pick an item, set a quantity and enter an amount of gold that you are willing to pay for that listing (the board holds that gold until the listing times out or is fulfilled), which players can then elect to fulfil and be paid for by having the requested items in their inventory and clicking the appropriate option on the board.
Problem with this suggestion is that players want their items now. What happens when I make a posting for a level 24 sword, then by the time it gets filled, I'm level 26?
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SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭NaciremaDiputs wrote: »SunfireKnight86 wrote: »NaciremaDiputs wrote: »ignoroticb14_ESO wrote: »ignoroticb14_ESO wrote: »It's funny, even without an AH, there are more bots in this game than any other mmo I've ever played.
You clearly didn't play any big mmo ....
Yeah...wrong. I've played most big name MMOs since SWG. I've never seen an mmo where there are multiple 10 character bots trains in a zone. Last night in the rift I personally watched something like 50 bots farm the moonless walk. No, I'm not exaggerating. It was impossible to count how many because they run in a pack, but there were at least 4 trains of 10+ bots, and that was only in the small area I was questing.
I can't see oxygen, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. It's all about perspective.
lol wut
1+1 = 2
I'm sorry if my logic and reasoning are going over your head.
Random unrelated things like oxygen and math just make you look like you can't follow a conversation. Try again.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭Wal-Mart does not exist in Tamriel.
Get over it.
So you can't buy an 8-trait crafted set for 5g on release day. Big freaking deal.0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Wal-Mart does not exist in Tamriel.
Get over it.
So you can't buy an 8-trait crafted set for 5g on release day. Big freaking deal.
Wait, you mean that the point of the game is to actually achieve things on my own, and not just throw money at my problems?2 -
ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭ChairGraveyard wrote: »Wal-Mart does not exist in Tamriel.
Get over it.
So you can't buy an 8-trait crafted set for 5g on release day. Big freaking deal.
Wait, you mean that the point of the game is to actually achieve things on my own, and not just throw money at my problems?
I know, practically unheard of in an MMORPG these days...
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NextGame✭✭Failing that some kind of item bounty board, where you pick an item, set a quantity and enter an amount of gold that you are willing to pay for that listing (the board holds that gold until the listing times out or is fulfilled), which players can then elect to fulfil and be paid for by having the requested items in their inventory and clicking the appropriate option on the board.
Problem with this suggestion is that players want their items now. What happens when I make a posting for a level 24 sword, then by the time it gets filled, I'm level 26?
Then it would be your own fault for not planning your progression efficiently (who actually buys lowbie gear anyways?)
Just about any alternative system has got to be better than what we have right now.1 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Failing that some kind of item bounty board, where you pick an item, set a quantity and enter an amount of gold that you are willing to pay for that listing (the board holds that gold until the listing times out or is fulfilled), which players can then elect to fulfil and be paid for by having the requested items in their inventory and clicking the appropriate option on the board.
Problem with this suggestion is that players want their items now. What happens when I make a posting for a level 24 sword, then by the time it gets filled, I'm level 26?
Then it would be your own fault for not planning your progression efficiently (who actually buys lowbie gear anyways?)
Just about any alternative system has got to be better than what we have right now.
Who buys lowbie gear? Lowbies who don't try to rush through the game at blazing speed. That's who.
But yes, I can agree. Just about any alternative is better than what we currently have.
I don't see why they don't just open the guild stores up to the public by allowing them to place a public facing vendor (didn't they say this would be done at some point?)0 -
Ashlynne✭✭✭You don't have to spam anything. The only things worth selling anyway are highly crafted items, and even then you are better off finding a guild to sell it in.
Having a global auction house would create more of an impact on the economy from bots, who would flood the market with resources and cause the price to drop.
I have a noble idea... punish the hackers and botters, not the players. :S0 -
Chanz✭✭AH would bring in bots to destroy the economy? The economy is already dead because of them.2 -
Ashlynne✭✭✭oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »SunfireKnight86 wrote: »oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »SunfireKnight86 wrote: »oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »Lets just make it so you can post auctions from your inventory, no need to do anything else but farm farm farm. Every thread on this forum is someone complaining that they actually have to put in effort, to get some kind of reward. "I don't want to have to try and sell my wares, I just want them to sell themselves". Vendor your items then, and lose out on max profits and gain more in experience/questing/fun factor. Or sit there and try to nickle and dime every mat you collect.
I personally like the guild houses. Power trade guilds have a purpose now as opposed to just being "casuals".
As I've said before: Spending hours switching guilds and spamming zones isn't immersive; it's a time sink. A time sink that annoys other players. For *** sake there isn't even a /trade. And once again, no matter how much the 2500 people in your 5 guilds like to trade, sooner or later people outside of that will have a product you want, or vice versa.
Selling to other players is a huge part of an online game. I'll never understand why the so called "hardcore" gamers feel that just because something takes a long time in a game it's more worthwhile. It's not. Once again, there is a reason literally every other MMO in the last ten year has had one.
I shouldn't have to go to third party forums to make a sale. That's outrageous.
There's a reason why real life doesn't have 1 generic auction house for every product on earth.
I'll let you just think on that for a bit.
Realistically, though, maybe Guild Stores are just the tip of the iceberg of how they see the economy developing. Maybe they are trying something new, and this is the base layer. We don't really understand whats coming down the line. I really hope a plane Jane generic auction house isn't in the mix though.
Possibly what you post in the Guild stores now, later your guild will be able to construct buildings, where you goods are sold. Initially the sales start internally to other members and the tax goes towards guild "building" constructions. Once you have a store front, your goods become "global".
Back to the original point, I really hope there aren't global auction houses so markets get cornered and prices get all crazy. There aren't any rules or legislation put in to protect the market, so when its a free for all, exploitation of the market happens. Good luck to you in your sales.
1) It does actually. I can go on Amazon and get anything I want.
2) This isn't real life.
Walmart doesn't sell their products on Amazon, just like I wouldn't expect "Guild A" to post their products on a generic auction house.
All I'm saying is the current setup (base layers) allow for more diversity when approaching the economy... as opposed to say, implementing a lame auction house just so you can corner a market and get rich as an individual.
We're at the infancy of the ESO market, and I don't believe we've seen the final design of the economy, only the foundation.
I wish your argument had some logic. Walmart doesn't sell their items on Amazon because they are competitive corporations. You aren't even comparing apples to oranges. You're comparing apples to trucks. Ever heard of eBay? You can sell anything there... it's a global auction house where any brand named product can be sold (provided it's legal). Guilds don't have unique patents on their "products" to be sold and the guild itself isn't making money off what you sell, so your point is...
Corporations are competing against each other to make money. Guilds are not.
I would like to see something done and I don't know the right answer. However, I think a good start would be to have a global /trade channel. I'm not too keen on the idea of a global auction house, but after playing all this time and finding that there are MORE botters here, regardless of the lack of an auction house, I find myself hard pressed to be opposed to one any more.
- Ash
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