Whats up with "MMO" players saying ESO has Trash combat?

GrimStyx · July 2023

Adernath wrote: »

A lot of good points have been mentioned above. In particular the self-buffing requirement every 6-20 seconds is very annoying, although I adapted. For example as magsorc you constantly need to keep up your (pretty weak) shields preemptively if you don't want to be a victim of a ganker - every 6 seconds. Then you need to cast some dark magic to fill up your magicka because you constantly need to buff etc. So you are busy just to prepare yourself. Its very annoying and the result of years of nerfs to the class which are totally unecessary.

The mediocre performance (yes there is still lag, although it improved a bit) doesn't help with the weaving mechanism. In big fights the clunky combat becomes very visible, with many spells hitting you out of a sudden due to lag without time to react. As someone else already mentioned above, it is often also very hard to preemtively cast some defense if animations are cancelled. For the typically tank build which eats each and everything directed to him this is of no concern, but for low-def builds performance, attention and reaction to enemy abilities is crucial.

Kiting builds like in other games (WoW, Neverwinter, ...) are literally impossible without the heavy use of immovable pots due to the countless use of snares, stuns and gap-closes which can be spammed without any meaningful cooldowns or resource increases (like it was introduced in streak). A magsorc and other ranged classes should be able to kite people around, but no, its hardly possible to run such settings in this game. Heavy armor users are just as fast as cloth users.

The main reasons why I finally stopped PvP is:

1) The tank meta is not adressed, despite countless posts over the years on forums from many people.

2) This is more personal, I understand there are other nerfed classes, but my favorite class magsorc is just nerfed too much over the years. Its no more fun to play anymore.

3) Every expansion/addition is just having too much impact on PvP. Often new gear is introduced which will then show up in builds and there is just too much build-science behind the scenes which I do not want to spend my time with: I have enough rather difficult problems to solve during my work day and when I log into a game, I want to relax and things must work straightforwardly without cheese in the background. Too much cheese in build science.

I am also not eager to repeat these complains again on these forums. Either ZOS wil do something with it, or not. Its their choice. There are many other great titles out there.

hodgepodge with sets, by the way, creates situations when there is something broken or so, there are players who sit for hours and test each build, and then sell it to someone for real money xd Personally, as a person who also works, I don’t really want to sit all evening and turn the numbers on a doll to get the most effective result, a huge variety of sets, most of which are useless and are introduced for show, no meta change, ignoring and unwillingness to redo classes and combat really kill this game, well, internal inflation of course

p00tx · July 2023

WiseSky wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

Do they just not understand the depts of it all ? Or do they just preferer flashy combat that goes BOOM and starts epileptic seizures ?

I'm so glad ESO doesn't have those kind of flashy moves--you can't even see what your character is doing in some other MMOS, and I think the flashier, the less satisfying and the less involved the skills feel in terms of playing, and in these games I think they are designed like this just to make turn-based combat feel dynamic even though it isn't. ESO combat is heaps better in comparison, the visuals of most skills are clean and smooth and work with the dynamic nature of combat, to me casting feels very smooth and fast, and it's what I prefer, and weaving LAs is perfect to make things even more fluid. I think if you get used to proper ESO combat, it's difficult to enjoy combat in other games, because nothing offers the same experience.

yeah it's something I noticed when playing other games.. I want to light attack weave... Why shouldn't I ... it seams so natural.

I wonder how much it has to about having the right set up of a good mmo mouse and left hand gamepad

I play with

And I swear that this was made perfectly for the bar swap... like perfectly.

and my other hand is the g600 and combat feels so like no other when it come to bar switching and weaving or whatever

I need that in my life

Zastrix · July 2023

Eh when most people think of an MMO they think of WoW and GW2 where the combat is basically tab-target. The only other MMO I've played was tera where the combat was basically the same.

How some people can't play ESO due to the combat I can't play WoW and GW2 without cringing by how the combat works.

WiseSky · July 2023

p00tx wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

Do they just not understand the depts of it all ? Or do they just preferer flashy combat that goes BOOM and starts epileptic seizures ?

I'm so glad ESO doesn't have those kind of flashy moves--you can't even see what your character is doing in some other MMOS, and I think the flashier, the less satisfying and the less involved the skills feel in terms of playing, and in these games I think they are designed like this just to make turn-based combat feel dynamic even though it isn't. ESO combat is heaps better in comparison, the visuals of most skills are clean and smooth and work with the dynamic nature of combat, to me casting feels very smooth and fast, and it's what I prefer, and weaving LAs is perfect to make things even more fluid. I think if you get used to proper ESO combat, it's difficult to enjoy combat in other games, because nothing offers the same experience.

yeah it's something I noticed when playing other games.. I want to light attack weave... Why shouldn't I ... it seams so natural.

I wonder how much it has to about having the right set up of a good mmo mouse and left hand gamepad

I play with

And I swear that this was made perfectly for the bar swap... like perfectly.

and my other hand is the g600 and combat feels so like no other when it come to bar switching and weaving or whatever

I need that in my life

you can get them on craiglist for like 60 bucks.. and it changes eso into an amazing feel for combat. I would highly recommand x34534354345345

merpins · July 2023

Sylosi wrote: »

Some reasons people consider the combat in this game as bad:

1 - The combat is floaty and lacks impact.

2 - The light attack weaving is just tedious for many people.

3 - It is supposedly action combat with aiming, but really the aiming is largely a joke. Take ranged skills for example, like a fire staff heavy attack, you look vaguely in the direction of your target and you will hit (barring dodges). This is due to the hit boxes being the size of a small planet and that once you've fired your ranged skill it has a soft lock so it will magically track your target to wherever they move. No need to actually aim and anticipate the movement of the target, the game plays for you. (one of the many reasons the combat in this game is significantly lower skilled than some like to think it is)

4 - The animation cancelling is absolutely low skill garbage, because firstly you generally have a massive window that you can cancel in, rather than a small window at the end of the animation. Secondly because you have that massive window you can often cancel nearly immediately, which means no meaningful skill animation for your opponent to react to in PvP, which is laughable. Literally the worst implementation of animation cancelling I've ever seen.

5 - The lack of variety. Every class uses the same mechanics (stam, magicka, etc), has access to every weapon, every armour type, most skills are available to every class (world, guild, weapon, armour, alliance war, etc), which gets dull.

6 - The vast majority of the PvE content is so trivial it makes the combat trivial and sends people to sleep. I mean if I can solo a veteran dungeon as someone who only plays this game sporadically, am quite lazy about weaving in PvE, etc, that in itself tells you how laughable the content is and don't even start me on alleged "world bosses" most of which can be done in your sleep.

7 - Somewhat related to the above is healer and tank are basically surplus to requirements for much of the content, so the combat in regards to supposedly being an MMORPG trinity system is busted in many peoples eyes. Also not helped by how high heals scale off basically the same stats you need for damage, why bother with healer most of the time, when you can take one heal skill on a DPS and survive fine with that. There is a reason games have a heal stat.

and so on...

1. Like... every mmo to ever exist? Most MMOs don't even have a generic attack, and basically none have a first person POV option. Yeah some skills can be a bit floaty, but some hit like you're in the driver's seat of a semi crashing into a brick wall. Like Wrecking Blow. It's also hard to make magic feel impactful without making it super flashy.
2. True. I like it since it's a skill based mechanic, but I also see people don't like it. It should have alternative options.
3. True. But most mmo's are just click target button and spam your rotation of skills without moving at all.
4. this is just #2 with more steps.
5. Most games don't have variety though. Most games, you get your class skills and that's it so I'm not sure why this is a pain point.
6. Yes. This is why end game PVE players want a vet overland toggle.
7. I mean sure, easy dungeons for the most part don't need a tank or healer if you build your character to self-heal and you have a damage shield on your bar for certain attacks. Vet dungeons usually need tanks and healers, but that's just how the game works; once you're good at the game, you'd stop needing assistance with easier and easier content.