ESO+ Auction house
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thejadefalcon✭✭✭✭✭
✭It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.3 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.
Well, people who don't sell because they don't want to engage with guilds are "stuck with them" too, and have been ever since trading behind a bizarre player-managed guild gate was introduced.
I'm not sure why people introduce arguments that are based entirely on their own playing style and refuse to reflect on how, in an MMO, other people might play differently.Edited by Northwold on July 13, 2023 4:48PM2 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.
Well, people who don't sell because they don't want to engage with guilds are "stuck with them" too, and have been ever since trading behind a bizarre player-managed guild gate was introduced.
I'm not sure why people introduce arguments that are based entirely on their own playing style and refuse to reflect on how, in an MMO, other people might play differently.
Because it's a TERRIBLE idea.
I buy and sell stuff I don't need all the time. Sometimes I accidentally buy a pattern I already had in the bank, sometimes I am picking up presents for friends, sometimes I bought a light but didn't like how it looked in the house. Because you want to punish flippers, who aren't such a big deal to begin with precisely BECAUSE of the way the trading system, you'd inconvenience almost everyone who uses the system at all.
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Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »thejadefalcon wrote: »It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.
Well, people who don't sell because they don't want to engage with guilds are "stuck with them" too, and have been ever since trading behind a bizarre player-managed guild gate was introduced.
I'm not sure why people introduce arguments that are based entirely on their own playing style and refuse to reflect on how, in an MMO, other people might play differently.
Because it's a TERRIBLE idea.
I buy and sell stuff I don't need all the time. Sometimes I accidentally buy a pattern I already had in the bank, sometimes I am picking up presents for friends, sometimes I bought a light but didn't like how it looked in the house. Because you want to punish flippers, who aren't such a big deal to begin with precisely BECAUSE of the way the trading system, you'd inconvenience almost everyone who uses the system at all.
Honestly, so what. Flipping has a system wide impact on the economy. People buying stuff by accident seems a rather less fundamental problem. When it happens, it happens. You're stuck with something you don't need. Doesn't strike me as a terribly persuasive reason not to implement bind on purchase from a trader.Edited by Northwold on July 13, 2023 6:00PM2 -
Twig_Garlicshine✭✭✭✭Thing always ignored in these threads:
Trader bid wins are the biggest gold sink in game.
As to centralized auction house:
1/ I was able to destroy multiple server economies in another game just because all the available goods were in one spot,
with easy access that made flipping so easy as to be automatic.
(Stopped when I realized the impact this play style had on others' enjoyment of a game.)
2/ While number 1 is more difficult, and temporary in this game it is still a strategy used by players.
Run around buy up all cheap listings, relist on their high end guilds at doubled or tripled prices.
(This is also why high end guild (managers) will own multiple guilds taking multiple spots in multiple areas.
Market capture.)
3/ Flipping is the bane of any society real or digital.
See real world housing shortages, see food future markets etc etc.
Flipping should really be called what it is - gouging.3 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Every time we get an exodus of WoW players there's a whole new string of threads about an auction house lol.
That said, it must be a lot harder to search traders on consoles without the helpful PC addons/websites. It would be nice to have an integrated trader site, like esologs for trials and parses.PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner2 -
Azphel✭✭✭I'm sure the guild trader system works for some people, but I bet most ESO players don't participate in it. It's tedious for the buyer. I stopped buying from traders because it wasted too much of my time in its current state. I would use it again if I could search all of them at once. (TTC admin forces ads so I don't use that either. But the volume of traffic TTC gets should tell you just how well the system works for buyers.)
As for selling, I think adding a trader for all trader-less players would help. Give it a higher sales tax and 5 slots AND a weekly fee. I just want to sell my trash every now and then. Flip it or don't, once it leaves my inventory I stop caring.4 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly I would prefer an AH, but with or without one I want noc vendors that sell mats for the same price as style stones. Let the guild traders, flippers(I actually don't see anything wrong with flippers) and all sell their gear, plans, furniture etc it's great. But the mats that's different. People who break the rules and cheat with bots should not have an advantage over the newbie farming their own supply to sell. I've been saying it for years but npc vendors should sell mats and bot guilds will just have to suffer. Make them cheap so it's not worth a guild trader slot. Kill. The. Bots...0 -
Twig_Garlicshine✭✭✭✭I'm sure the guild trader system works for some people, but I bet most ESO players don't participate in it. It's tedious for the buyer. I stopped buying from traders because it wasted too much of my time in its current state. I would use it again if I could search all of them at once. (TTC admin forces ads so I don't use that either. But the volume of traffic TTC gets should tell you just how well the system works for buyers.)
As for selling, I think adding a trader for all trader-less players would help. Give it a higher sales tax and 5 slots AND a weekly fee. I just want to sell my trash every now and then. Flip it or don't, once it leaves my inventory I stop caring.
A good idea.
5 slots would help the infrequent sellers and get newbs used to trading.1 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm sure the guild trader system works for some people, but I bet most ESO players don't participate in it. It's tedious for the buyer. I stopped buying from traders because it wasted too much of my time in its current state. I would use it again if I could search all of them at once. (TTC admin forces ads so I don't use that either. But the volume of traffic TTC gets should tell you just how well the system works for buyers.)
As for selling, I think adding a trader for all trader-less players would help. Give it a higher sales tax and 5 slots AND a weekly fee. I just want to sell my trash every now and then. Flip it or don't, once it leaves my inventory I stop caring.
Please keep making the alternative, non-guild crippled trader suggestion. I've raised it periodically for years. Hopefully if more people raise it it might eventually get noticed.
There's no obvious disadvantage to users of the existing trading system and by opening up the selling economy to ALL PLAYERS (you know, like almost every single other MMO) without a player controlled gate, you're doing existing traders a favour because players who don't sell through player guilds *will actually have some gold to buy stuff with*. The current treatment of trading is ridiculous, as if it were some sort of niche minigame rather than a fundamental game system that is for no apparent reason shut off from a whole section of the player base.Edited by Northwold on July 13, 2023 9:58PM2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm sure the guild trader system works for some people, but I bet most ESO players don't participate in it. It's tedious for the buyer. I stopped buying from traders because it wasted too much of my time in its current state. I would use it again if I could search all of them at once. (TTC admin forces ads so I don't use that either. But the volume of traffic TTC gets should tell you just how well the system works for buyers.)
As for selling, I think adding a trader for all trader-less players would help. Give it a higher sales tax and 5 slots AND a weekly fee. I just want to sell my trash every now and then. Flip it or don't, once it leaves my inventory I stop caring.
Please keep making the alternative, non-guild crippled trader suggestion. I've raised it periodically for years. Hopefully if more people raise it it might eventually get noticed.
There's no obvious disadvantage to users of the existing trading system and by opening up the selling economy to ALL PLAYERS (you know, like almost every single other MMO) without a player controlled gate, you're doing existing traders a favour because players who don't sell through player guilds *will actually have some gold to buy stuff with*. The current treatment of trading is ridiculous, as if it were some sort of niche minigame rather than a fundamental game system that is for no apparent reason shut off from a whole section of the player base.
I've been advocating this for years. Having an NPC trader in key locations at which you could list a few items at a high commission rate would not only help those who don't want to bother with guilds (not least because they don't have enough items to sell to make it worthwhile or even viable), along with giving some gold to those players with which they can buy stuff off other traders as you say, but it would also help those players whose guilds don't have a trader that week. It could also benefit the guilds themselves because the NPC traders' commission could be distributed between the guilds with traders in those locations, and a tutorial quest taking new players through the trading system could start with the NPC trader and then introduce the guild traders. Everyone a winner!2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SimonThesis wrote: »Here's a trading guild app ChatGPT made:
[Your Character Name]
Dear [Guild Leader's Name],
I am writing to express my interest in joining [Your Guild Name] as an esteemed member of your trading guild in the world of Elder Scrolls Online. Having heard of the incredible reputation and accomplishments of your guild, I am eager to contribute to its growth and success.
As an avid adventurer and skilled trader, I possess a deep passion for the economic aspects of the game. I understand the importance of a thriving trading community and the role it plays in creating a prosperous environment for all players. With my dedication and commitment, I am confident that I can add value to the guild and contribute to its ongoing success.
Here are some reasons why I believe I would be a valuable addition to [Your Guild Name]:
Financial Contribution: I am more than willing to make regular dues to support the guild's operations and help maintain its trade network. I understand that a well-funded guild can provide greater opportunities for its members and enhance the overall trading experience.
Active Participation: I am committed to actively participating in guild events and activities. This includes attending guild auctions, where I can contribute items for bidding as well as actively participate in acquiring valuable items for myself. Additionally, I am enthusiastic about joining farming runs to gather resources and contribute to the guild's collective efforts.
Knowledge and Experience: With my extensive knowledge of the game's economy and trading mechanics, I can provide valuable insights and advice to new guild members. I am constantly keeping up with the latest market trends and strategies to ensure maximum profitability for both myself and for the guild.
Reliability and Integrity: I pride myself on being a trustworthy and reliable player. I understand the importance of maintaining a positive reputation within the guild and the broader community. You can count on me to conduct myself with the utmost integrity and professionalism at all times.
I am excited about the prospect of joining [Your Guild Name] and contributing to its continued success. I am open to any further requirements or assessments necessary to become a member of the guild. Please feel free to reach out to me at your earliest convenience to discuss my application further.
Thank you for considering my application. I eagerly await your response and the opportunity to become a part of [Your Guild Name].
Sincerely,
[Your Character Name]
Thank you for illustrating so well the absurdity of a system that requires a player to jump through those hoops in order to be able to sell a few items.
Wasn't that difficult for me. Saw a guild promotion in zone chat and responded with a one sentence message. The first trade guild I joined a friend said hey I'm in a trade guild that could use more members, you have a slot. Turns out that guild was at the time one of the top three trade guilds in the game.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.
Well, people who don't sell because they don't want to engage with guilds are "stuck with them" too, and have been ever since trading behind a bizarre player-managed guild gate was introduced.
I'm not sure why people introduce arguments that are based entirely on their own playing style and refuse to reflect on how, in an MMO, other people might play differently.
Stuck by choice. They have a perfectly fine system in place for selling multiple items. The idea of binding all items purchased from a trader takes away choice. Choice is a good thing. Those who chose not to participate in the trader system still have zone chat available. If your play style is solo, no guilds, then zone chat would be what fits that play style.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.
Well, people who don't sell because they don't want to engage with guilds are "stuck with them" too, and have been ever since trading behind a bizarre player-managed guild gate was introduced.
I'm not sure why people introduce arguments that are based entirely on their own playing style and refuse to reflect on how, in an MMO, other people might play differently.
Stuck by choice. They have a perfectly fine system in place for selling multiple items. The idea of binding all items purchased from a trader takes away choice. Choice is a good thing. Those who chose not to participate in the trader system still have zone chat available. If your play style is solo, no guilds, then zone chat would be what fits that play style.
A perfectly fine system that about 50% of players actively despise? Hmm. It's well worth going somewhere like reddit to see how much less self-selecting players *really* like how trading is set up in ESO.6 -
quinancia✭✭✭I am a no on the AH. All the reasons for and against get repeated every time someone restarts this same debate as if it were a new and interesting idea. So, I won't repeat them.
I am also a no on NPCs selling mats. I sell mats. On PC you don't need bots. Do writs and surveys, and stop for wood, runes, flowers, and mudcrabs. No bots required.0 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am a no on the AH. All the reasons for and against get repeated every time someone restarts this same debate as if it were a new and interesting idea. So, I won't repeat them.
I am also a no on NPCs selling mats. I sell mats. On PC you don't need bots. Do writs and surveys, and stop for wood, runes, flowers, and mudcrabs. No bots required.
??? Not sure where anyone said bots were required my friend. I do writs on 16 characters a day and like you, farm my own mats/surveys. I actually went console for less cheating (oh the irony in today's game)
I said bot farmer's shouldn't have an advantage over people farming and selling. It's a free money cheat. Whether it's the current set up, or an AH, a live person can't compete with the cheating. Make mats available, and cheap, and it'll kill off most of the bots(the leather bots may still farm animals but if they're cheap they may not). I've yet to see bots farming urns and chests, so sell gear/plans etc. at the traders.1 -
quinancia✭✭✭Sorry, Lumenn I misread your post.
If the premise is that bot farmers selling mats have an advantage over people farming and selling mats, how does eliminating the selling of mats help the people farmers? It would just eliminate the need to gather resources in the world, wouldn't it? And, in the process hurt the people who farm for mats.0 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry, Lumenn I misread your post.
If the premise is that bot farmers selling mats have an advantage over people farming and selling mats, how does eliminating the selling of mats help the people farmers? It would just eliminate the need to gather resources in the world, wouldn't it? And, in the process hurt the people who farm for mats.
They can not compete NOW. Not really. Every gold you make they make 100. For free and while they sleep. I'd suggest if you're farming to make cash, farm for furnishing plans, recipes, gear, etc. Instead of mats. It's more profitable (just one character looted a purple plan today that sold(fast) for a million on Xbox. 15 minutes of looting urns)
As for eliminating the need for gathering resources yes and no. Some people will still wish to gather their own rather than pay even cheap prices. Unfortunately, I can't think of another way to rid the game of cheating bots that doesn't cost zos money on a GM per server constantly booting bots. Farm plans for cash. Kill the reason bots exist(the housing community will be thrilled)1 -
quinancia✭✭✭I hate bots.
Bots currently keep prices low, by flooding the market. They provide deflationary rather than inflationary pressure. Without bots the prices for mats would be higher.
Your solution is to lower the prices so much that bots can't compete.
Your solution would destroy a whole segment of the economy and hurt the many, many players who farm mats.
It would put an artificially low price on housing mats, essentially make them free, which the housing community would love.
It probably would not put bots out of business. If the price NPCs sell at is 50 gold, bots can sell for 45. They never get tired.0 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hate bots.
Bots currently keep prices low, by flooding the market. They provide deflationary rather than inflationary pressure. Without bots the prices for mats would be higher.
Your solution is to lower the prices so much that bots can't compete.
Your solution would destroy a whole segment of the economy and hurt the many, many players who farm mats.
It would put an artificially low price on housing mats, essentially make them free, which the housing community would love.
It probably would not put bots out of business. If the price NPCs sell at is 50 gold, bots can sell for 45. They never get tired.
/Shrug obviously I hate bots as well. And yes, you're correct. It would hurt anyone selling mats. Of course, bot farmers having unlimited cash doesn't help anyone either. Everyone keeps claiming they lower prices on mats, yet as more and more bots take over, I haven't noticed mat prices dropping over much. Weird.
But yes. If you rely on selling mats then my solution to kill bots(who...rely on selling mats) would hurt you. It's why I suggested farming plans and recipes rather than mats. Over the years I've made this suggestion a few times, and on THIS forum it's usually not received well.
Of course, by now it doesn't matter much. The bot farmer's have billions already, so I suppose it's a moot point. Originally I had mentioned bots due to people claiming a trader system can't be cornered like an AH can. It's simply false. It takea a bit more "leg work" and bots would be a good start, but it isn't impossible. Or even improbable for those that enjoy or profit from that side of the game. Especially early, when there were fewer traders available.Edited by Lumenn on July 14, 2023 5:40AM0 -
quinancia✭✭✭Lumenn,
You are smarter than I am
You have played longer than I have
You understand the game better than I do
You realize that your solution would hurt players and help no one. It won't work.
You, like me, have more gold than you can spend.
I would love to see you put your knowledge and experience towards a real solution to the problem you are trying to solve. It is real.
You are the person who could solve it!0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »SimonThesis wrote: »Here's a trading guild app ChatGPT made:
[Your Character Name]
Dear [Guild Leader's Name],
I am writing to express my interest in joining [Your Guild Name] as an esteemed member of your trading guild in the world of Elder Scrolls Online. Having heard of the incredible reputation and accomplishments of your guild, I am eager to contribute to its growth and success.
As an avid adventurer and skilled trader, I possess a deep passion for the economic aspects of the game. I understand the importance of a thriving trading community and the role it plays in creating a prosperous environment for all players. With my dedication and commitment, I am confident that I can add value to the guild and contribute to its ongoing success.
Here are some reasons why I believe I would be a valuable addition to [Your Guild Name]:
Financial Contribution: I am more than willing to make regular dues to support the guild's operations and help maintain its trade network. I understand that a well-funded guild can provide greater opportunities for its members and enhance the overall trading experience.
Active Participation: I am committed to actively participating in guild events and activities. This includes attending guild auctions, where I can contribute items for bidding as well as actively participate in acquiring valuable items for myself. Additionally, I am enthusiastic about joining farming runs to gather resources and contribute to the guild's collective efforts.
Knowledge and Experience: With my extensive knowledge of the game's economy and trading mechanics, I can provide valuable insights and advice to new guild members. I am constantly keeping up with the latest market trends and strategies to ensure maximum profitability for both myself and for the guild.
Reliability and Integrity: I pride myself on being a trustworthy and reliable player. I understand the importance of maintaining a positive reputation within the guild and the broader community. You can count on me to conduct myself with the utmost integrity and professionalism at all times.
I am excited about the prospect of joining [Your Guild Name] and contributing to its continued success. I am open to any further requirements or assessments necessary to become a member of the guild. Please feel free to reach out to me at your earliest convenience to discuss my application further.
Thank you for considering my application. I eagerly await your response and the opportunity to become a part of [Your Guild Name].
Sincerely,
[Your Character Name]
Thank you for illustrating so well the absurdity of a system that requires a player to jump through those hoops in order to be able to sell a few items.
Here's what MY most recent guild trader application looked like:
"Low level because it's an overflow account, but have many wares for those with coin"
I probably could have put literally anything, or nothing at all after the first part of the sentence. I was accepted, it's a small trader in an out of the way location but stuff sells pretty well. There's a raffle with some good stuff in it so I participate in that, but it's not required and there are no dues. When I was AFK for a couple weeks due to a family emergency I sent an in game mail to an officer, and I was not removed. I'm not even in the discord.
People who act like being in a trading guild is such a difficult thing imho haven't actually tried it.
I shook my head as I had never seen or heard of a trade guild requiring such a lengthy response to be considered. While it would not surprise me that someone might send that much information I doubt it is a requirement for any worthy trade guild.
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LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.
Well, people who don't sell because they don't want to engage with guilds are "stuck with them" too, and have been ever since trading behind a bizarre player-managed guild gate was introduced.
I'm not sure why people introduce arguments that are based entirely on their own playing style and refuse to reflect on how, in an MMO, other people might play differently.
Stuck by choice. They have a perfectly fine system in place for selling multiple items. The idea of binding all items purchased from a trader takes away choice. Choice is a good thing. Those who chose not to participate in the trader system still have zone chat available. If your play style is solo, no guilds, then zone chat would be what fits that play style.
A perfectly fine system that about 50% of players actively despise? Hmm. It's well worth going somewhere like reddit to see how much less self-selecting players *really* like how trading is set up in ESO.
It would be interesting to see evidence of where this 50% of players number comes from. I think that the majority of players do not participate in any games forums. This statistic of 50% of players disliking the present system would appear to be pulled from thin air.4 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.
Well, people who don't sell because they don't want to engage with guilds are "stuck with them" too, and have been ever since trading behind a bizarre player-managed guild gate was introduced.
I'm not sure why people introduce arguments that are based entirely on their own playing style and refuse to reflect on how, in an MMO, other people might play differently.
Stuck by choice. They have a perfectly fine system in place for selling multiple items. The idea of binding all items purchased from a trader takes away choice. Choice is a good thing. Those who chose not to participate in the trader system still have zone chat available. If your play style is solo, no guilds, then zone chat would be what fits that play style.
A perfectly fine system that about 50% of players actively despise? Hmm. It's well worth going somewhere like reddit to see how much less self-selecting players *really* like how trading is set up in ESO.
It would be interesting to see evidence of where this 50% of players number comes from. I think that the majority of players do not participate in any games forums. This statistic of 50% of players disliking the present system would appear to be pulled from thin air.
Well, you can easily start here https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/we7c1m/selling_stuff_pauper_npc_traders_for_players_who/
Although the numbers may well fluctuate as the ESO forum "purists" click away. They certainly did last time I linked to it, notwithstanding that as a suggestion it would do absolutely *nothing* to disadvantage fans of the existing trade setup.
But you can also just search reddit. The number of people defending the existing trading system is nothing like what it is on here. Most likely because people on here have to be ultra passionate about ESO / live in ESO to bother going through the hoops to sign up to these forums, whereas that does not apply on other fora so you get a more representative mix of players.
And you can Google roundups of which MMOs to play, which have from time to time singled out the trader system as a reason not to bother playing ESO at all and just find a better MMO. Not fair, as far as I'm concerned, because of what the rest of the game has to offer, but as a comparative take when lining up different MMOs people should look into, not unreasonable, either.Edited by Northwold on July 14, 2023 11:28AM6 -
_Zathras_✭✭✭✭✭
✭The number of people defending the existing trading system is nothing like what it is on here. Most likely because people on here have to be ultra passionate about ESO / live in ESO to bother going through the hoops to sign up to these forums, whereas that does not apply on other fora so you get a more representative mix of players.
Whenever this discussion comes forward, I never contribute with the intention of converting the zealots of the current system. It will never happen. In fact, if you scour the older threads of the AH discussions, you will always see the same defenders with the same tired strawman arguments.
I participate to put a burr under the saddle of this horse. No, it's not dead. I think you can integrate an in-game search and retrieval function while still maintaining the trader guilds and their socioeconomic structure. Tack on a fee for using it. Have a slightly slower delivery time. Make going to the guild traders cheaper by 10%. Whatever it takes.And you can Google roundups of which MMOs to play, which have from time to time singled out the trader system as a reason not to bother playing ESO at all and just find a better MMO. Not fair, as far as I'm concerned, because of what the rest of the game has to offer, but as a comparative take when lining up different MMOs people should look into, not unreasonable, either.
The #1 complaint, which shifts interchangeably with the combat system, is the lack of an AH. People gang up on those discussions and have a group laugh that this is still the case. It is an anachronistic system from 2003 in DAoC, carried forward into a modern game with all the cumbersome baggage still attached.
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LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thejadefalcon wrote: »It has been said a million times: a central AH allows controlling the narket and dictating the prices by pressing F5 (and basically by using a bit or macro to do all the work). We have been there before in other games. The annoyance of travvelling around is the only way to at least make it a little more tedious for those who are playung the market monopoly game.
I could think of another way to stop the flipping game: Simply make all items bought at traders Bind on pickup.
Sometimes, I just don't need an item in the end. I bought a bunch of treasure maps the other day to go lead farming, now I'm selling the spares. You would prevent that. The same goes for housing, I bought a lot of items I then decided against for my latest build. Now I'm stuck with them, thanks to you.
Sometimes, I am buying it for someone else. Maybe because they're not able to get online at the time and I know my friend will want it, maybe it's because someone wants an item but they have no access to the zone. You would prevent that as well.
And yes, sometimes, I'll buy something cheap because I know it's going to be worth more down the line. And that's okay too.
That is quite possibly the worst idea to fix this I've ever heard and I've read a *lot* of ways people have suggested stopping flipping.
Well, people who don't sell because they don't want to engage with guilds are "stuck with them" too, and have been ever since trading behind a bizarre player-managed guild gate was introduced.
I'm not sure why people introduce arguments that are based entirely on their own playing style and refuse to reflect on how, in an MMO, other people might play differently.
Stuck by choice. They have a perfectly fine system in place for selling multiple items. The idea of binding all items purchased from a trader takes away choice. Choice is a good thing. Those who chose not to participate in the trader system still have zone chat available. If your play style is solo, no guilds, then zone chat would be what fits that play style.
A perfectly fine system that about 50% of players actively despise? Hmm. It's well worth going somewhere like reddit to see how much less self-selecting players *really* like how trading is set up in ESO.
It would be interesting to see evidence of where this 50% of players number comes from. I think that the majority of players do not participate in any games forums. This statistic of 50% of players disliking the present system would appear to be pulled from thin air.
Well, you can easily start here https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/we7c1m/selling_stuff_pauper_npc_traders_for_players_who/
Although the numbers may well fluctuate as the ESO forum "purists" click away. They certainly did last time I linked to it, notwithstanding that as a suggestion it would do absolutely *nothing* to disadvantage fans of the existing trade setup.
But you can also just search reddit. The number of people defending the existing trading system is nothing like what it is on here. Most likely because people on here have to be ultra passionate about ESO / live in ESO to bother going through the hoops to sign up to these forums, whereas that does not apply on other fora so you get a more representative mix of players.
And you can Google roundups of which MMOs to play, which have from time to time singled out the trader system as a reason not to bother playing ESO at all and just find a better MMO. Not fair, as far as I'm concerned, because of what the rest of the game has to offer, but as a comparative take when lining up different MMOs people should look into, not unreasonable, either.
OK so no concrete evidence of the supposed 50% of ESO-players?
This answer in your Reddit thread is rather revealing:
---
"What an elaborate gymnastic stunt to try and substitute something akin to putting one foot ahead of another to move forward.
The current system works just fine."
---
So any non-anecdotal evidence that 50% of the users on Reddit ESO sub-forum or this forum support a global trading system instead of the current (working) system would be quite interesting but hardly relevant.
With that said I suspect that the vast majority of ESO players do not participate in either Reddit or this forum so the 50% claim does seem to have been pulled out of thin air.
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faerigirl✭✭✭✭This discussion has happened many, many times over the last decade.
I was a rabid AH supporter back in days of yore but now that I don't 'struggle' for mats of any kind or have any need for more gold I'm a lot more tolerant of the guild traders.
If anything would be on a 'wish list' it would be a central board -updated every three hours or something- that you could find out which trader has what you a looking for-think same search function as on the traders now. You'd still have to bounce around but you would know which zone and who you were looking for.
What bugs me are the stories of greedy trading guilds. High dues, multiple guilds under the same people. Things to screw with the buying of traders. Ever been to a trader that has nearly nothing for sale? That's just a front for another guild.
Or maybe all that's changed -shrugs- I'm not in a guild because my time is little and the ***'s are annoying.1 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bottom line is, there are enough traders and trading guilds that virtually anyone who wants to be in a trading guild can be.
There are basic gold making opportunities available to everyone. If you like to pvp there are plenty of things to buy with AP and telvar that sell well, if you like to pve there are style materials and motifs to sell, if you like to do quests and overland content there are patterns and gear to sell, and if you don't want to sell anything every there are daily crafting writs.
EVERYONE has a way to make gold, no matter what you like to do in the game, and considering I'm in 2 guilds that only have around 300 players each but maintain a trader, the issue doesn't seem to be lack of space in these guild traders.
Everyone has the opportunity to make gold, how much gold you make is ENTIRELY dependent on how much effort you want to put in, no different than any other aspect of the game, really. There are tons of people who literally never buy or sell anything on guild traders, have simply never bothered, and they play the game quite happily. They farm their own mats, make their own food and potions, etc.
The system is fine as it is. A lot of people have turned it into their own mini game, and it's the biggest gold sink in the game.1