ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

Oh no i only get 21% cost reduction at stage four plus the cost reduction i already have it's to much the nerf it hurts my feelings. I do not understand why you have to whine because your cost reduction got nerfed did you really think that for a side set of skills you should have more total cost reduction than any of the classes could actually obtain.

ONLY FOR VAMPIRE ABILITIES.

Xelphos wrote: »

Well as someone who never exploited with the vampire abilities, this was a huge punch in the gut for me.

This is why I HATE PVP. It always ruins cool PVE features when lazy devs refuse to balance them separately.

ok so you didn't actually answer my question why do you think you should get double the cost reduction on vamp abilities 60% when i can only get 28% on my class abilities. Further more the PVE statement isn't valid there are people soloing dungeon delves in craglorn on the PTS server with this fix and the passives fixed right now.

So someone please let me know how it killed your PvE again.

So a vampire have 2 abilities + ultimate which costs were reduced by 60%. This leaves another 3 abilities that are NOT affected by this.
Plus

I am DK and I can't reduce the cost of my abilities trough passives, what gives you the right to have 28% (or whatever) reduction? Please nerf it to 3% or less so we can be equal...see where I am going?

Fixes that were required were not done, they just nerfed the only thing that was OK and made the skills simply viable for those that are not abusing the exploits and mechanics... And to simplify it for you even more - if you have a small woуnd on your finger let's cut your hand to cure the woуnd on the finger?

Yeah you can reduce your cost reduction through passives apparently you haven't look at some of the skill lines.

My races cost reduction Is Magicka MasteryRank 1/2/3
-1/2/3% spell cost.

cost reduction from light armor per piece i wear is 3% i wear 7 peices =21%

in total we now have 24% + the 3% from a set i wear Seducer
3 Items
Reduce cost of spells by 3%.
Now were to 27% cost reduction

Only the top value is from my race so your still able to get 24% and more cost reduction from these and other things in the game.

The fixes are already on the PTS server as i said Vamp DK goes into dungeon alone in craglorn (4- man zone) kills everything by himself so how is vampire not very good anymore for Pve then.

So you are telling me that I have to go and change my way to play (armor in this case) the game that is "play as you like" to achive what you say is broken?

I planned my character prior the release with only char calculators, looking for specific info and checking the looks of the armors

I came up with heavy armor Vamp DK with 1h+Shield...which at the end appears to be one of the OPest possible combinations out there if you use certain abilities in certain ways...

Can you guess my DPS? 330 @ VR8 ...not that amazing right? So I am doing something very bad or I am actually not abusing the exploits...

And when we come to the above mentioned exploits can you tell why they didn't actually fixed them? How on earth they came with no CAP on the skill cost reductions when they have cap (and quite hard on top of that) on everything else?

If they are going to do so drastic nerfs (65%) they can just bring the game back to BETA status where I would expect such things. In already released game you can't just go and nerf something by 60-70% and call that a fix.

No one is telling you how to play your character.First of all "play as you like" doesn't mean i should get the best of everything on one character. It means you as a player have to go through skills and every detail of the structure of your character to find out what works best for you. which apparently you have done to come up with your build.

The above mentioned exploits are because with the combination that he and you have come to use. not only were there vamp ability bugs but there are also some DK ability bugs that even when you fix all of one side the other side can be used.

Not sure how you figure there is a huge problem with skill cost reduction when it is in line and not to much more than your vamp ability cost reduction now i had to set up my build to get the most out of it as i assume that you have as well.

Yep I came with my build - a build that I like and wasn't actually OP. I had fun using it.

Now they completely ruined my build because of abusers in PvP. Can't they hard cap the cost reductions? Can't they fix how the abilities work (bat swarms on top of each other)? They maybe can but it will take someone with a brain to do it. Instead they nerfed everybody and didn't fixed the cost reduction stacking...

As i said before people also abuse this in PvE. Most of the numbers at hard cap reduce to 50% the numbers i did above this can only be brought to 41% with 3 enchantments on jewelry which would take away from my and others build unless you use a fair amount of the mages guild abilities which allow you to have an extra 16 % bringing the total to 57% only on mage guild abilities and not used on the Ultimate. so the way i have my build the cost reduction would be 43% for mages guild abilities. They did fix the stacking of bat swarm they no longer stack.

They did not how you say nerf everybody There are still alot of people using vamp because thats the way they want there builds. There are also some people complaining for a refund of skill points because they went and grabbed up vamp because they like the FOTM. I'm not sure what cost reduction stacking your refering to?

Edit/ Realize what you mean they fixed the cost reduction stacking as well.derp

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

Oh no i only get 21% cost reduction at stage four plus the cost reduction i already have it's to much the nerf it hurts my feelings. I do not understand why you have to whine because your cost reduction got nerfed did you really think that for a side set of skills you should have more total cost reduction than any of the classes could actually obtain.

ONLY FOR VAMPIRE ABILITIES.

Xelphos wrote: »

Well as someone who never exploited with the vampire abilities, this was a huge punch in the gut for me.

This is why I HATE PVP. It always ruins cool PVE features when lazy devs refuse to balance them separately.

ok so you didn't actually answer my question why do you think you should get double the cost reduction on vamp abilities 60% when i can only get 28% on my class abilities. Further more the PVE statement isn't valid there are people soloing dungeon delves in craglorn on the PTS server with this fix and the passives fixed right now.

So someone please let me know how it killed your PvE again.

So a vampire have 2 abilities + ultimate which costs were reduced by 60%. This leaves another 3 abilities that are NOT affected by this.
Plus

I am DK and I can't reduce the cost of my abilities trough passives, what gives you the right to have 28% (or whatever) reduction? Please nerf it to 3% or less so we can be equal...see where I am going?

Fixes that were required were not done, they just nerfed the only thing that was OK and made the skills simply viable for those that are not abusing the exploits and mechanics... And to simplify it for you even more - if you have a small woуnd on your finger let's cut your hand to cure the woуnd on the finger?

Yeah you can reduce your cost reduction through passives apparently you haven't look at some of the skill lines.

My races cost reduction Is Magicka MasteryRank 1/2/3
-1/2/3% spell cost.

cost reduction from light armor per piece i wear is 3% i wear 7 peices =21%

in total we now have 24% + the 3% from a set i wear Seducer
3 Items
Reduce cost of spells by 3%.
Now were to 27% cost reduction

Only the top value is from my race so your still able to get 24% and more cost reduction from these and other things in the game.

The fixes are already on the PTS server as i said Vamp DK goes into dungeon alone in craglorn (4- man zone) kills everything by himself so how is vampire not very good anymore for Pve then.

So you are telling me that I have to go and change my way to play (armor in this case) the game that is "play as you like" to achive what you say is broken?

I planned my character prior the release with only char calculators, looking for specific info and checking the looks of the armors

I came up with heavy armor Vamp DK with 1h+Shield...which at the end appears to be one of the OPest possible combinations out there if you use certain abilities in certain ways...

Can you guess my DPS? 330 @ VR8 ...not that amazing right? So I am doing something very bad or I am actually not abusing the exploits...

And when we come to the above mentioned exploits can you tell why they didn't actually fixed them? How on earth they came with no CAP on the skill cost reductions when they have cap (and quite hard on top of that) on everything else?

If they are going to do so drastic nerfs (65%) they can just bring the game back to BETA status where I would expect such things. In already released game you can't just go and nerf something by 60-70% and call that a fix.

No one is telling you how to play your character.First of all "play as you like" doesn't mean i should get the best of everything on one character. It means you as a player have to go through skills and every detail of the structure of your character to find out what works best for you. which apparently you have done to come up with your build.

The above mentioned exploits are because with the combination that he and you have come to use. not only were there vamp ability bugs but there are also some DK ability bugs that even when you fix all of one side the other side can be used.

Not sure how you figure there is a huge problem with skill cost reduction when it is in line and not to much more than your vamp ability cost reduction now i had to set up my build to get the most out of it as i assume that you have as well.

Yep I came with my build - a build that I like and wasn't actually OP. I had fun using it.

Now they completely ruined my build because of abusers in PvP. Can't they hard cap the cost reductions? Can't they fix how the abilities work (bat swarms on top of each other)? They maybe can but it will take someone with a brain to do it. Instead they nerfed everybody and didn't fixed the cost reduction stacking...

As i said before people also abuse this in PvE. Most of the numbers at hard cap reduce to 50% the numbers i did above this can only be brought to 41% with 3 enchantments on jewelry which would take away from my and others build unless you use a fair amount of the mages guild abilities which allow you to have an extra 16 % bringing the total to 57% only on mage guild abilities and not used on the Ultimate. so the way i have my build the cost reduction would be 43% for mages guild abilities. They did fix the stacking of bat swarm they no longer stack.

They did not how you say nerf everybody There are still alot of people using vamp because thats the way they want there builds. There are also some people complaining for a refund of skill points because they went and grabbed up vamp because they like the FOTM. I'm not sure what cost reduction stacking your refering to?

The main issue in PvP with vamps as far as I read around was that vampires were able to cast 6+ ultimates at once, go in mist form and get the heals of the bat swarm. This made them pretty much unkillable.

How did this worked? According to many:
1) Stack cost reductions (ultimate cost reductions if you wish to be precise) - getting the cost down to 4! or 0 (if emperro I believe?)
2) Mist form should prevent any kind of healing but it doesn't do this with the healing provided from the bat sward.

So they could have capped the ulti cost reduction to the base 60% in stage 4, fixed the casting few ultimates at once (would be hard if not impossible with 60% cost reduction) and fixed the healing during mist form and all PvP cry babies would've been happy...


Edit: Do you mind giving me 700 gold to cure vamp, around 25k to reset the skills (as you can't reset just one line) and another 20k to cover the cost of the gear that will become useless? Or because you cried louder during last few weeks while few exploiters ran out there now I have to cover those costs on my own?

Edit: Do you mind giving me 700 gold to cure vamp, around 25k to reset the skills (as you can't reset just one line) and another 20k to cover the cost of the gear that will become useless? Or because you cried louder during last few weeks while few exploiters ran out there now I have to cover those costs on my own?[/quote]

By this statement it seems like you picked the FOTM and should not be entitled to anything back. And i haven't cried about vamps in PvP i watched vamps kill 20 people at a time while i sat there but before they all died heal debuff cc'd vamps into the ground they never bothered me.

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

So why even have a vampire skill line then? Why not just make NPC's with those "lore friendly" abilities and forget about adding something unique and immersive to the game, if you are just going to rip it away and ruin it the first time some something goes wrong in PVP and you are too damn lazy to change the way skills work separately in PVP and PVE zones to balance things out?

EDIT: Sorry for being overly frustrated by this, but this issue really irks me. It is what ruined PVE for me in other games as well. Instead of taking the 10% more time to make skills work differently in PVP vs. PVE, they make blanket changes that wreck PVE dynamics to cater to PVP FOTM exploits.

I mean how hard would that be in a game like this where there are no PVP servers?

IF (in cyrodiil) AND (Ability X), do this.

IF (not in cyrodiil) AND (Ability X), do that.

IF (target is player) AND (Ability Y), do this.

IF (target is not player) AND (Ability Y), do this.

Jesus just efing shoot me!

It's nearly impossible to make skills work completely differently in PVP vs PVE. It's 1 skill. It has 1 set of mechanics for that 1 skill. You can't have it magically change in to another skill when you change zones. There is so many coding issues behind what you are demanding it's staggering that you think it's so easy.

Also, in response to your "how does it make it godlike" comment. Vampires could literally run in circles with batswarm and mist in PVP and decimate entire zerg attacks. So, you guys get to "play how you want" but, anyone that's a melee doesn't? Honestly, there is not any other skill in the game that repeatedly stacks a bonus, ALL of them refresh the current buff you have.

I still think they need to give you guys the DoT from Skyrim when in sunlight. As it stands now, the only downside is resist to fire, which most people negate with a couple +fire resist enchants. If people started taking 1 damage every thirty seconds or minute in sunlight, it's enough to be annoying but, the chances of you dying to it are fairly low unless you are dumb.

I guess that if you ask gently, you could have rainbow pony and lollipops too.

norm_voshall wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

So why even have a vampire skill line then? Why not just make NPC's with those "lore friendly" abilities and forget about adding something unique and immersive to the game, if you are just going to rip it away and ruin it the first time some something goes wrong in PVP and you are too damn lazy to change the way skills work separately in PVP and PVE zones to balance things out?

EDIT: Sorry for being overly frustrated by this, but this issue really irks me. It is what ruined PVE for me in other games as well. Instead of taking the 10% more time to make skills work differently in PVP vs. PVE, they make blanket changes that wreck PVE dynamics to cater to PVP FOTM exploits.

I mean how hard would that be in a game like this where there are no PVP servers?

IF (in cyrodiil) AND (Ability X), do this.

IF (not in cyrodiil) AND (Ability X), do that.

IF (target is player) AND (Ability Y), do this.

IF (target is not player) AND (Ability Y), do this.

Jesus just efing shoot me!

It's nearly impossible to make skills work completely differently in PVP vs PVE. It's 1 skill. It has 1 set of mechanics for that 1 skill. You can't have it magically change in to another skill when you change zones. There is so many coding issues behind what you are demanding it's staggering that you think it's so easy.

People see that Guild Wars did it, and then assume it must be simple, I guess. Nevermind that it took them, what? Four years before they rolled that out.

It is possible, if you have a discrete PvP format, like Guild Wars' arena setups. But, for a mixed PvP/PvE environment like Cyrodill just makes that kind of a setup a nightmare. Nevermind that Guild Wars used a deckbuilding system, so if your PvE build was different from your PvP build, you could switch between them.

TESO has some of that, but not in the same way, and the morphs mean the whole setup would become unwieldy. If morphs were just handled as new, mutually exclusive skills, and you could buy both upgrades and swap between them, then it might be a different story, but what happens if your PvP morph is crap in PvE, and your PvE morph has been nerfed for PvP?

haha vampwhiners nice change.. thx for nerfing it now talons plz

I'm going to come to the forum when they nerf some of these peoples' favorite skills because of jerks in PvP exploiting completely unrelated skills, and just laugh and be a jerk like they are.

As an aside - LOL at all the pathetically bad players that think Mist Form was OP - given you can bash people out of it, and the CC immunity is broken. Only the worst players ever had any problem with Mist Form.

Given they're balancing the game around players that don't even know what bash IS, we're in for a fun ride.

What's next? Nerfing power attacks because the kiddie noobs don't understand blocking?

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: Do you mind giving me 700 gold to cure vamp, around 25k to reset the skills (as you can't reset just one line) and another 20k to cover the cost of the gear that will become useless? Or because you cried louder during last few weeks while few exploiters ran out there now I have to cover those costs on my own?

By this statement it seems like you picked the FOTM and should not be entitled to anything back. And i haven't cried about vamps in PvP i watched vamps kill 20 people at a time while i sat there but before they all died heal debuff cc'd vamps into the ground they never bothered me.

Nope I made my build as I wished. It included being vamp and using vamp ultimate + vamp drain + 4 other abilities. It was not a great build but I liked it (and I mentioned that I did 330-350 dps in VR content right? not really OP i believe?). Now it is even worse and while before I was able to hold myself when figthing 3 VR mobs now I have to stand and wait for the regens to get me back to being able to kill the next pack.

That's how affected I am by this nerf.

So while PvPers had the right to cry for vamp changes %now I have the same and deserve the same treatment as they got - I want my investments back so I can build up another build. Or maybe this time I might go and look up for the next FOTM build that deals 1k+ dps and do not bother thinking of something that will work on my own...

Edit: Typo...

Let me explain it in a way you can understand since you may be new to the genre. Many things will be changed for many many years to come and your demands for compensation is frivolous because you enjoyed your build and the game until a change was made. You have been compensated by your experience, not your future holdings in that experience you muck.

Thechemicals wrote: »

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

legiont666ub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: Do you mind giving me 700 gold to cure vamp, around 25k to reset the skills (as you can't reset just one line) and another 20k to cover the cost of the gear that will become useless? Or because you cried louder during last few weeks while few exploiters ran out there now I have to cover those costs on my own?

By this statement it seems like you picked the FOTM and should not be entitled to anything back. And i haven't cried about vamps in PvP i watched vamps kill 20 people at a time while i sat there but before they all died heal debuff cc'd vamps into the ground they never bothered me.

Nope I made my build as I wished. It included being vamp and using vamp ultimate + vamp drain + 4 other abilities. It was not a great build but I liked it (and I mentioned that I did 330-350 dps in VR content right? not really OP i believe?). Now it is even worse and while before I was able to hold myself when figthing 3 VR mobs now I have to stand and wait for the regens to get me back to being able to kill the next pack.

That's how affected I am by this nerf.

So while PvPers had the right to cry for vamp changes %now I have the same and deserve the same treatment as they got - I want my investments back so I can build up another build. Or maybe this time I might go and look up for the next FOTM build that deals 1k+ dps and do not bother thinking of something that will work on my own...

Edit: Typo...

Let me explain it in a way you can understand since you may be new to the genre. Many things will be changed for many many years to come and your demands for compensation is frivolous because you enjoyed your build and the game until a change was made. You have been compensated by your experience, not your future holdings in that experience you muck.

A few years ago when I played WoW when there was a major change in the skill tree this included a free respec for those affected (I played a priest if that matters?).

This days when a change is made in the PoE (Path of Exile) passive tree they give you respec or directly give you back all your skill points or only give you back those that were put in the affected area.

So now come back and tell me the free respec is not a must give immediately...

How uninformed everyone is because they saw a youtube video is beyond me. Sorc's and DK's were exploiting the Vamp bat swarm because of their own passives! They used it on an ability that could greatly benefit them, the ultimate ability Bat Swarm --- which mind you worked just perfectly as it should. Their exploits sent ZOS in a chaotic scramble to quickly and heavily nerf Vamps instead of investigating the true source of it. Everyone is so quick to jump on bandwagons without knowing the exact details.

Thechemicals wrote: »

One of the things Blizzard tracks is how many people are playing a class or type. If the % of the playerbass is large enough and the change implemented is significant, they allow respec. They do it in diablo as well. They just give back all the spec points on the change. However

1. This is not Blizzard and Blizzard doesnt set the standard for every system in a game, just most.
2. Im not so sure you were just asking for a respec, which is not a big issue. Im certain i heard gear and time .
3. Read 1.

1. Not following a good practices does not make you better, just turns people over.
2. Yes I mentioned the gear. And let me explain:
In WoW (mind I have not played for long so I cant remember every detail) if you were a healer you need few stats on your gear - spirit, intelect, healing power/spell power and so forth. The skill trees were a compliment on top of that that made you just enough more effective in your desired role. When they did a big change in the tree they provided a free respec so you can actually play with those pasives again and buff the spells/abilities you would like to use given the new conditions, however gear requirements didn't changed if you wanted to continue healing.

Here the skill lines come with some benefits and draw backs AND give you skills. If you opt in for being a vamp you get some draw backs that have to be at least partialy negated with GEAR- fire resistance for example. If you are not a vamp you do not need fire res or not that much so there comes the claim for gear. Now as they nerfed vamps they are due to give a free respec out of the skill line AND refund the gear costs to those that payed for enchants that are now worthless.

Now if they revert the nerf and just fix the broken skills and mechanics that would be good enough too...

rangerluna375 wrote: »

Anytime they make a major change, they should offer up a free respec.

For core class skill lines and the like sure, but for skill lines you have to go out and acquire(Undaunted, werewolf, vampire, etc), not so much.

Thechemicals wrote: »

Free respec lol, must be American with that sense of entitlement. Are you disabled? Get it yourself and fix your character yourself.

Awe chemicals, what's wrong you are afraid your nerfs are next? What does American and disabled have to do with it? Click report people, give this noob a timeout. And stop hating because you're not American, that's right all your women love us when we travel there. XD I know this first hand. It's only natural to hate on the best.

malikwalker_ESO wrote: »

ShadowOfOblivion wrote: »

malikwalker_ESO wrote: »

rangerluna375 wrote: »

Anytime they make a major change, they should offer up a free respec.

For core class skill lines and the like sure, but for skill lines you have to go out and acquire(Undaunted, werewolf, vampire, etc), not so much.

For EVERY skill line. You went out and acuired it when it was working under some condtions. If they change those why should you be penalised for liking the previous version?

If it is a totally optional skill line you will never see unless you go looking for it? Yes.

And the three skill lines i listed have zero bearing on your progress in the game. They are totally optional and should be treated as 'as is' in terms of spending points into them. No one makes you join the Undaunted or makes you get lycanthropy or vampirism.

Agreed it IS OPTIONAL. When you decide to use it as every other non idiot you go to esohead and check what it gives and what are the drawbacks.

Now I went for it when it was in some state. And made my build including it - like very low on magica as the abilities had heavy reduction, but in exchange I had to give up enchantment slots for fire res.

Now they changed it so my build is no longer viable and I have to make another build. Why should I pay for that? Is it my fault they made such a drastic change when the game is officialy released? I am not expecting such changes in game that is not in a beta or even alpha! Bug fixes, slight number fixes (IE generic passive A that gives 30/50/70% per point is now 20/40/60%) are expected but that is 70% reduction off the power of a passive. IT IS A BIG change that changes entire builds!