2-Second Stun Delay for the Warden's Arctic Blast Morph (of Arctic Wind)

xDeusEJRx · June 2023

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

It is highly likely that its effectiveness as protection against gankblades was the primary reason it was nerfed.

Gankblades can gank wardens?? Since when?
My Warden is the tankiest character I have.
Just hold block and spam polar wind as necessary.
If they're going to cloak constantly I just walk away and find somebody more interesting.

I have no idea how this is even relevant to what they said. This thread is talking about arctic blast, a skill that you don't even use. So I'm not sure how your high health polar wind build even fits into the conversation?

Bushido2513 · June 2023

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

It is highly likely that its effectiveness as protection against gankblades was the primary reason it was nerfed.

Gankblades can gank wardens?? Since when?
My Warden is the tankiest character I have.
Just hold block and spam polar wind as necessary.
If they're going to cloak constantly I just walk away and find somebody more interesting.

I have no idea how this is even relevant to what they said. This thread is talking about arctic blast, a skill that you don't even use. So I'm not sure how your high health polar wind build even fits into the conversation?

It's somewhat relevant in that the question could be asked why add defense on top of defense. The warden has so many ways to defend and heal. I'm ok with spreading out the defensive capabilities of this skill to require more engagement for the player.

xDeusEJRx · June 2023

Bushido2513 wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

It is highly likely that its effectiveness as protection against gankblades was the primary reason it was nerfed.

Gankblades can gank wardens?? Since when?
My Warden is the tankiest character I have.
Just hold block and spam polar wind as necessary.
If they're going to cloak constantly I just walk away and find somebody more interesting.

I have no idea how this is even relevant to what they said. This thread is talking about arctic blast, a skill that you don't even use. So I'm not sure how your high health polar wind build even fits into the conversation?

It's somewhat relevant in that the question could be asked why add defense on top of defense. The warden has so many ways to defend and heal. I'm ok with spreading out the defensive capabilities of this skill to require more engagement for the player.

Not sure I would call the instant stun portion of it "defense", any stun can be "defensive" if you intend it to be. Sorcs use streak both offensively (to put players out of a fight temporarily) and defensively (to run away or avoid damage).

It can literally be whatever the user intends it to be, but I think nerfing an already hurting offensive kit on warden is a ridiculous change, which nerfing the stun does.
Warden suffers more from an offensive standpoint when having a bad stun than they do from a defensive aspect, because they have tons of defensive alternatives, but not offensive alternatives. What other instant stun do they have alternatively to use in the class kit if they want to go offensive in a fight?
The answer is none, unless you have mages guild for Meteor, fighters guild for DBOS or Turn evil, then say goodbye to being able to try to effectively kill players on your own as most people will either kill you in a fight or just disengage if they're unable to kill you.

Bushido2513 · June 2023

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

[

Not sure I would call the instant stun portion of it "defense", any stun can be "defensive" if you intend it to be. Sorcs use streak both offensively (to put players out of a fight temporarily) and defensively (to run away or avoid damage).

It can literally be whatever the user intends it to be, but I think nerfing an already hurting offensive kit on warden is a ridiculous change, which nerfing the stun does.
Warden suffers more from an offensive standpoint when having a bad stun than they do from a defensive aspect, because they have tons of defensive alternatives, but not offensive alternatives. What other instant stun do they have alternatively to use in the class kit if they want to go offensive in a fight?
The answer is none, unless you have mages guild for Meteor, fighters guild for DBOS or Turn evil, then say goodbye to being able to try to effectively kill players on your own as most people will either kill you in a fight or just disengage if they're unable to kill you.

I get what you're saying and you're correct that a stun works however you use it.

In my experience good wardens that I've fought didn't really need the immediate stun to kill me they just needed a well timed stun. This does require a more thought out approach from the player but is still useable.

Streak is a good example. You get damage and mobility in one skill but you won't get the full potential unless you streak in the right direction at the right time and know what to do after or between streaks

xDeusEJRx · June 2023

Bushido2513 wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

[

Not sure I would call the instant stun portion of it "defense", any stun can be "defensive" if you intend it to be. Sorcs use streak both offensively (to put players out of a fight temporarily) and defensively (to run away or avoid damage).

It can literally be whatever the user intends it to be, but I think nerfing an already hurting offensive kit on warden is a ridiculous change, which nerfing the stun does.
Warden suffers more from an offensive standpoint when having a bad stun than they do from a defensive aspect, because they have tons of defensive alternatives, but not offensive alternatives. What other instant stun do they have alternatively to use in the class kit if they want to go offensive in a fight?
The answer is none, unless you have mages guild for Meteor, fighters guild for DBOS or Turn evil, then say goodbye to being able to try to effectively kill players on your own as most people will either kill you in a fight or just disengage if they're unable to kill you.

I get what you're saying and you're correct that a stun works however you use it.

In my experience good wardens that I've fought didn't really need the immediate stun to kill me they just needed a well timed stun. This does require a more thought out approach from the player but is still useable.

Streak is a good example. You get damage and mobility in one skill but you won't get the full potential unless you streak in the right direction at the right time and know what to do after or between streaks

No one needs an immediate stun to kill in pvp, all you need is damage, however if you are gonna play in any PVP zone, what will happen in most fights is, once you start pressuring people, they will run, kite, or try to hide from you and unless you can lock them down with a stun to finish them you will not be killing 90% of PVP because pvp has a lot of people who would rather not die in pvp than take a risk.

There's more high health players, more people built into tanky sets or proc sets like mara's balm in the game than people who aren't running them.
WIth that being said, if you are fighting against these players with no way to stop them from turtling up, you're just not killing them. They're already built to not die, and the fact that you can't prevent them turtling because you have no reiable stun, you just don't kill them

Sure I could kill them if I wanted to commit to chasing them down, but I don't want to put in the additional 2 minutes of time chasing down 1 player who is trying to run back and hide inside of his keep. I would prefer that to be a 5 second engagement because I can stun them, and not worry about that 1 player suddenly becoming 20 because a zerg shows up.

Bushido2513 · June 2023

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

No one needs an immediate stun to kill in pvp, all you need is damage, however if you are gonna play in any PVP zone, what will happen in most fights is, once you start pressuring people, they will run, kite, or try to hide from you and unless you can lock them down with a stun to finish them you will not be killing 90% of PVP because pvp has a lot of people who would rather not die in pvp than take a risk.

There's more high health players, more people built into tanky sets or proc sets like mara's balm in the game than people who aren't running them.
WIth that being said, if you are fighting against these players with no way to stop them from turtling up, you're just not killing them. They're already built to not die, and the fact that you can't prevent them turtling because you have no reiable stun, you just don't kill them

Sure I could kill them if I wanted to commit to chasing them down, but I don't want to put in the additional 2 minutes of time chasing down 1 player who is trying to run back and hide inside of his keep. I would prefer that to be a 5 second engagement because I can stun them, and not worry about that 1 player suddenly becoming 20 because a zerg shows up.

I kind of get your point because you seem to indicate the player will use that 2 seconds to react to what you're doing and escape and what not. I think I still see the problem as the same but I suppose the answer is possibly bad. I still think that the instant stun combined with the heal was bad for pvp. That being said I would have rather seen the stun placed on another skill and still be instant rather than the delay.

On the other hand I still think the stun is useable though you have to pre cast now and mix it into combat so that it's not so easy to spot.