2-Second Stun Delay for the Warden's Arctic Blast Morph (of Arctic Wind)

TheGamerSeal

Hello. I've been following along with the PTS patch notes, and it doesn't seem like this nerf will be reverted without some intervention.

Adding a delay to the stun introduces two problems. Superficially, the delay will make it impossible to experience the thrill of bowling your way into a group of enemy NPCs and freeze them all. Practically, however, this ability will lose its excellent protection against one of the most overpowered and frustrating PvP subclasses: gankblades.

Arctic Blast as a self-heal already costs enough as it is, but adding a stun to it is worth the investment. Delaying that stun allows gankblades to thrive by giving them a window to roll away before the stun takes effect.

I do recognize that having a self-heal and a stun in one ability is arguably overpowered, but delaying that stun will ruin that ability's effectiveness. As an alternative, I suggest a reduction to the damage pulse's overall duration, perhaps 10 - 15 seconds down from 20 seconds, or a reduction to the stun time, perhaps 1.5 - 2 seconds down from 3 seconds.

Considering player reaction time and an enemy's potential to increase crowd control immunity, delaying that stun will remove one more defense against gankblades. Please reconsider this nerf.

ESO_Nightingale

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

Hello. I've been following along with the PTS patch notes, and it doesn't seem like this nerf will be reverted without some intervention.

Adding a delay to the stun introduces two problems. Superficially, the delay will make it impossible to experience the thrill of bowling your way into a group of enemy NPCs and freeze them all. Practically, however, this ability will lose its excellent protection against one of the most overpowered and frustrating PvP subclasses: gankblades.

Arctic Blast as a self-heal already costs enough as it is, but adding a stun to it is worth the investment. Delaying that stun allows gankblades to thrive by giving them a window to roll away before the stun takes effect.

I do recognize that having a self-heal and a stun in one ability is arguably overpowered, but delaying that stun will ruin that ability's effectiveness. As an alternative, I suggest a reduction to the damage pulse's overall duration, perhaps 10 - 15 seconds down from 20 seconds, or a reduction to the stun time, perhaps 1.5 - 2 seconds down from 3 seconds.

Considering player reaction time and an enemy's potential to increase crowd control immunity, delaying that stun will remove one more defense against gankblades. Please reconsider this nerf.

I completely agree but they ignored us this patch. It's going through

Kordai

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

I do recognize that having a self-heal and a stun in one ability is arguably overpowered, but delaying that stun will ruin that ability's effectiveness.

Well lowering effectiveness was the point and it doesn't have much of an effect on pve (can simply hit it 2 secs before desired cc) while only sort of limiting it in pvp. You can just chase people and as long as you stay within 6m you'll get the cc. Sure against faster classes it can be a problem but it's really the only unblockable aoe (and therefore undodgeable) cc that's used.

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

As an alternative, I suggest a reduction to the damage pulse's overall duration, perhaps 10 - 15 seconds down from 20 seconds, or a reduction to the stun time, perhaps 1.5 - 2 seconds down from 3 seconds.

Reducing the dmg duration is pointless because the dmg wasn't what made it good in the first place. Reducing the cc time while being a good alternative, would effect pve and I think they are trying to avoid that.

TheGamerSeal

Kordai wrote: »

Well lowering effectiveness was the point and it doesn't have much of an effect on pve (can simply hit it 2 secs before desired cc) while only sort of limiting it in pvp. You can just chase people and as long as you stay within 6m you'll get the cc. Sure against faster classes it can be a problem but it's really the only unblockable aoe (and therefore undodgeable) cc that's used.

It can be blocked, actually.

But I guess it doesn't matter if the last PTS patch has released. I should have known better than to go up against one of the two viable classes in the game - dragonknight being the other.

WoppaBoem

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

TheGamerSeal

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

Honestly, I think there are users here that actively downplay player complaints and feedback - I think I've personally gotten at least one on each of my discussions.

ESO_Nightingale

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

while i don't disagree that there is too much loaded on one ability, it's the healing that should go, not the stun power. we have so many offensive stat scaling abilities in green balance that we don't use unless we're a healer, why not make one of those ones heal the user to the equivalent of what arctic blast currently heals? that's still a significant nerf since you're removing the heal and the stun from the same gcd in addition to requiring another skill slot to obtain it (one thing that's hard to sacrifice on warden). that's a really fair trade-off. in return, reducing the cost of arctic blast or increasing it's damage power would significantly help warden dps where it suffers in pve.

JerBearESO

Y'all realize the change is an offensive buff right? Beetles then arctic so both will happen at the same time allows you to focus on the damage aspect of a burst combo rather than needing to arctic during the combo for the stun. Pvp wise this should give warden better kill opportunity, which is likely a favorable trade off for the reduced gank survivability

xDeusEJRx

JerBearESO wrote: »

Y'all realize the change is an offensive buff right? Beetles then arctic so both will happen at the same time allows you to focus on the damage aspect of a burst combo rather than needing to arctic during the combo for the stun. Pvp wise this should give warden better kill opportunity, which is likely a favorable trade off for the reduced gank survivability

It's not a buff lmao. It's the difference between controlling how the fight flows and trying to play a waiting game like how balorgh users play. If I'm fighting multiple people, let's say 5+ and I need to get them off me, the difference between 2 seconds can be substantial. I need to create space now, not 2 seconds later because I'm not trying to be offensive. It's literally the difference of being able to control a fight and not being able to control a fight at your whim.

Conversely on the offensive side, you are FORCED to play much slower than you normally would. Slow burning in PVP is not good PVP, people want low time to kill, and having a slow stun, makes TTK longer and fights drag out and become harder than what they should be. It's the main reason why old arctic blast wasn't a good skill either, they had to constantly stick to you in order for you to stun them. Not to mention with this change, it's not going to work against people who run away or like to passively keep distance in a fight, how am I supposed to stun those players with a 2 second delay?.

People have to be forced to run dawnbreaker of smiting or meteor in order to get a stun to properly combo and time things, and for some reason people think this is a good change when all it does it make warden harder to DPS with and remove build diversity because now you're forced to run an ultimate with a stun on it.

acastanza_ESO

Warden needs defensive nerfs. We can argue about if this is the right way to adjust the class or not (I personally think it's an okay start, but the skill that really needs to be looked at is Cystal Slab, particularly in comparison to Sorcerer's similar in concept but objectively awful Defensive Rune), but the insane defenses of the class (second only to DK which desperately needs to be looked at), did need something done.

LittlePinkDot

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

Hello. I've been following along with the PTS patch notes, and it doesn't seem like this nerf will be reverted without some intervention.

Adding a delay to the stun introduces two problems. Superficially, the delay will make it impossible to experience the thrill of bowling your way into a group of enemy NPCs and freeze them all. Practically, however, this ability will lose its excellent protection against one of the most overpowered and frustrating PvP subclasses: gankblades.

Arctic Blast as a self-heal already costs enough as it is, but adding a stun to it is worth the investment. Delaying that stun allows gankblades to thrive by giving them a window to roll away before the stun takes effect.

I do recognize that having a self-heal and a stun in one ability is arguably overpowered, but delaying that stun will ruin that ability's effectiveness. As an alternative, I suggest a reduction to the damage pulse's overall duration, perhaps 10 - 15 seconds down from 20 seconds, or a reduction to the stun time, perhaps 1.5 - 2 seconds down from 3 seconds.

Considering player reaction time and an enemy's potential to increase crowd control immunity, delaying that stun will remove one more defense against gankblades. Please reconsider this nerf.

I completely agree but they ignored us this patch. It's going through

I have a question for you.
Do you think the monster set Sellistrix can make a good stun for a warden using polar wind?

ESO_Nightingale

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

Hello. I've been following along with the PTS patch notes, and it doesn't seem like this nerf will be reverted without some intervention.

Adding a delay to the stun introduces two problems. Superficially, the delay will make it impossible to experience the thrill of bowling your way into a group of enemy NPCs and freeze them all. Practically, however, this ability will lose its excellent protection against one of the most overpowered and frustrating PvP subclasses: gankblades.

Arctic Blast as a self-heal already costs enough as it is, but adding a stun to it is worth the investment. Delaying that stun allows gankblades to thrive by giving them a window to roll away before the stun takes effect.

I do recognize that having a self-heal and a stun in one ability is arguably overpowered, but delaying that stun will ruin that ability's effectiveness. As an alternative, I suggest a reduction to the damage pulse's overall duration, perhaps 10 - 15 seconds down from 20 seconds, or a reduction to the stun time, perhaps 1.5 - 2 seconds down from 3 seconds.

Considering player reaction time and an enemy's potential to increase crowd control immunity, delaying that stun will remove one more defense against gankblades. Please reconsider this nerf.

I completely agree but they ignored us this patch. It's going through

I have a question for you.
Do you think the monster set Sellistrix can make a good stun for a warden using polar wind?

nope, tried it in the past. sellistrix sucks.

TheGamerSeal

JerBearESO wrote: »

Y'all realize the change is an offensive buff right? Beetles then arctic so both will happen at the same time allows you to focus on the damage aspect of a burst combo rather than needing to arctic during the combo for the stun. Pvp wise this should give warden better kill opportunity, which is likely a favorable trade off for the reduced gank survivability

The "reduced" - read "removed" - survivability is the primary argument for this post. That instant stun has saved me from rabid gankblades on countless occasions.

As for lining it up with the shalk attack, I'll be honest: I hate that double cast - it's one reason I preferred magicka warden over stamina. I don't much care for excessive use of force, instead preferring just enough damage to deal with an opponent and then that's it. By the time that second attack hits, an enemy NPC has been dead for at least 1-2 seconds and then WHHOMM!!! Granted, my reasoning is pretty superficial, but I've just never been a fan - it upsets a smooth combat experience, for me at least. And with this change, I'm probably going to start exploring other skillsets, as fond as I've become with warden.

TheGamerSeal

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

Y'all realize the change is an offensive buff right? Beetles then arctic so both will happen at the same time allows you to focus on the damage aspect of a burst combo rather than needing to arctic during the combo for the stun. Pvp wise this should give warden better kill opportunity, which is likely a favorable trade off for the reduced gank survivability

It's not a buff lmao. It's the difference between controlling how the fight flows and trying to play a waiting game like how balorgh users play. If I'm fighting multiple people, let's say 5+ and I need to get them off me, the difference between 2 seconds can be substantial. I need to create space now, not 2 seconds later because I'm not trying to be offensive. It's literally the difference of being able to control a fight and not being able to control a fight at your whim.

Conversely on the offensive side, you are FORCED to play much slower than you normally would. Slow burning in PVP is not good PVP, people want low time to kill, and having a slow stun, makes TTK longer and fights drag out and become harder than what they should be. It's the main reason why old arctic blast wasn't a good skill either, they had to constantly stick to you in order for you to stun them. Not to mention with this change, it's not going to work against people who run away or like to passively keep distance in a fight, how am I supposed to stun those players with a 2 second delay?.

People have to be forced to run dawnbreaker of smiting or meteor in order to get a stun to properly combo and time things, and for some reason people think this is a good change when all it does it make warden harder to DPS with and remove build diversity because now you're forced to run an ultimate with a stun on it.

Honestly, I couldn't agree more.

Turtle_Bot

At this point, I'm just going to switch my hybrid stamden back to polar wind and find room for fighters guild fear like I used to run or maybe switch to zoals if I want the defensive stun instead.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

while i don't disagree that there is too much loaded on one ability, it's the healing that should go, not the stun power. we have so many offensive stat scaling abilities in green balance that we don't use unless we're a healer, why not make one of those ones heal the user to the equivalent of what arctic blast currently heals? that's still a significant nerf since you're removing the heal and the stun from the same gcd in addition to requiring another skill slot to obtain it (one thing that's hard to sacrifice on warden). that's a really fair trade-off. in return, reducing the cost of arctic blast or increasing it's damage power would significantly help warden dps where it suffers in pve.

I actually like this idea, give wardens some more damage on the stun (helpful for PvE and when going on the offense) and move the heal into the healing line to get that lines benefits when healing instead of leaving it on the tank/utility line.

ESO_Nightingale

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

At this point, I'm just going to switch my hybrid stamden back to polar wind and find room for fighters guild fear like I used to run or maybe switch to zoals if I want the defensive stun instead.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

while i don't disagree that there is too much loaded on one ability, it's the healing that should go, not the stun power. we have so many offensive stat scaling abilities in green balance that we don't use unless we're a healer, why not make one of those ones heal the user to the equivalent of what arctic blast currently heals? that's still a significant nerf since you're removing the heal and the stun from the same gcd in addition to requiring another skill slot to obtain it (one thing that's hard to sacrifice on warden). that's a really fair trade-off. in return, reducing the cost of arctic blast or increasing it's damage power would significantly help warden dps where it suffers in pve.

I actually like this idea, give wardens some more damage on the stun (helpful for PvE and when going on the offense) and move the heal into the healing line to get that lines benefits when healing instead of leaving it on the tank/utility line.

I've been arguing that we don't need 6 offensive stat scaling healing skills for a while, not when we don't use nature's embrace, shrooms or budding seeds as a dps. Lotus Blossom is pretty underwhelming too.

Brander12

Zos have to delete wardens, why you need them? They get nerfed every patch, and ppl don't want to play Templar not because it's s weak class, because its BORING class.
Hopefully I didn't say any swearings, I don't want a permaban like you done due to swearings.

Oakiyo

In the meantime, frozen retreat is still useless and hasn't been touched since JC turned water into wine.
Maybe, that's just a theory, and it must be the absolute first time this is evocated, this thing can be the instant stun pvpers have been requesting for the longest time.

ESO_Nightingale

Oakiyo wrote: »

In the meantime, frozen retreat is still useless and hasn't been touched since JC turned water into wine.
Maybe, that's just a theory, and it must be the absolute first time this is evocated, this thing can be the instant stun pvpers have been requesting for the longest time.

arctic blast is fine as the stun, it just doesn't need to be a 6th offensive scaling heal since we have an entire line for it. frozen retreat could be an execute trap or something.

WoppaBoem

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

Honestly, I think there are users here that actively downplay player complaints and feedback - I think I've personally gotten at least one on each of my discussions.

Its because I have a different perspective of you, I think the nerf is justified and changes the dynamic. Its sucks that stun and heal are connected. Now its delayed so one can use it on the backbar and attack and stun on the frontbar this makes sense. So I don't downplay I support the change. Its a good change, well done by ZOS

xDeusEJRx

WoppaBoem wrote: »

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

Honestly, I think there are users here that actively downplay player complaints and feedback - I think I've personally gotten at least one on each of my discussions.

Its because I have a different perspective of you, I think the nerf is justified and changes the dynamic. Its sucks that stun and heal are connected. Now its delayed so one can use it on the backbar and attack and stun on the frontbar this makes sense. So I don't downplay I support the change. Its a good change, well done by ZOS

It's funny to me how players don't see how similar this is in function to pre-buffed arctic blast, where you need to constantly stick to players to feasibly stun anything. Though it's not as poor as old arctic blast because it doesn't require you to get 3 stacks of arctic blast to stun them, but it's still delayed in nature, which means you have to stick to the person to actually get a stun off on them. No one wanted to play warden then because of how poor that was functionally, this is just a slightly better version of that.

Also good luck fighting runners in pvp, because you're never gonna stun them as they'll just run away or kite away from you during the downtime of the delay effect. This isn't PVE where enemies will just stay still for 2 seconds while you parse them down and warden has no tangible way to stick to an enemy. We aren't templars where we can just toppling charge an enemy.

taugrim

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

Honestly, I think there are users here that actively downplay player complaints and feedback - I think I've personally gotten at least one on each of my discussions.

Its because I have a different perspective of you, I think the nerf is justified and changes the dynamic. Its sucks that stun and heal are connected. Now its delayed so one can use it on the backbar and attack and stun on the frontbar this makes sense. So I don't downplay I support the change. Its a good change, well done by ZOS

It's funny to me how players don't see how similar this is in function to pre-buffed arctic blast, where you need to constantly stick to players to feasibly stun anything. Though it's not as poor as old arctic blast because it doesn't require you to get 3 stacks of arctic blast to stun them, but it's still delayed in nature, which means you have to stick to the person to actually get a stun off on them. No one wanted to play warden then because of how poor that was functionally, this is just a slightly better version of that.

Also good luck fighting runners in pvp, because you're never gonna stun them as they'll just run away or kite away from you during the downtime of the delay effect. This isn't PVE where enemies will just stay still for 2 seconds while you parse them down and warden has no tangible way to stick to an enemy. We aren't templars where we can just toppling charge an enemy.

Totally agree.

Look at PVP builds in general. You pretty much never see build guides recommending the use of stuns that delay after a triggering event. They're inherently a pain in the rear to use and low value.

WoppaBoem

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

Honestly, I think there are users here that actively downplay player complaints and feedback - I think I've personally gotten at least one on each of my discussions.

Its because I have a different perspective of you, I think the nerf is justified and changes the dynamic. Its sucks that stun and heal are connected. Now its delayed so one can use it on the backbar and attack and stun on the frontbar this makes sense. So I don't downplay I support the change. Its a good change, well done by ZOS

It's funny to me how players don't see how similar this is in function to pre-buffed arctic blast, where you need to constantly stick to players to feasibly stun anything. Though it's not as poor as old arctic blast because it doesn't require you to get 3 stacks of arctic blast to stun them, but it's still delayed in nature, which means you have to stick to the person to actually get a stun off on them. No one wanted to play warden then because of how poor that was functionally, this is just a slightly better version of that.

Also good luck fighting runners in pvp, because you're never gonna stun them as they'll just run away or kite away from you during the downtime of the delay effect. This isn't PVE where enemies will just stay still for 2 seconds while you parse them down and warden has no tangible way to stick to an enemy. We aren't templars where we can just toppling charge an enemy.

I main a warden in PVP and use polar wind.., no one was playing warden because of all the classes they did not had a reliable burst heal it was not about the stun. The buff given to this skill and its success is because its a good heal and both morphs have great function of healing and additional effects. This is a slight change and still strong but its requires bit more skillful planning. And sorry if it changes your offense mode they huge annoying factor of this skill was the stun and heal on execution. Bit braindead oh I am almost dead I heal up and leave the attackers stunned and I am out of execution danger with 1 press.

JerBearESO

Run rushing agony frontbar with 2 hand for the gapclose. Prep beetles, prep arctic for stun, gapclose, use 2hand ult timed with stun and beetles, throw in an execute timed with rush proc.

No need to defend against the dead....

xDeusEJRx

WoppaBoem wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Its overpowered. Your close to finishing someone they heal and stun you at the sametime its not good to have in game it needed change. Polar wind much better anyway try than on.

Honestly, I think there are users here that actively downplay player complaints and feedback - I think I've personally gotten at least one on each of my discussions.

Its because I have a different perspective of you, I think the nerf is justified and changes the dynamic. Its sucks that stun and heal are connected. Now its delayed so one can use it on the backbar and attack and stun on the frontbar this makes sense. So I don't downplay I support the change. Its a good change, well done by ZOS

It's funny to me how players don't see how similar this is in function to pre-buffed arctic blast, where you need to constantly stick to players to feasibly stun anything. Though it's not as poor as old arctic blast because it doesn't require you to get 3 stacks of arctic blast to stun them, but it's still delayed in nature, which means you have to stick to the person to actually get a stun off on them. No one wanted to play warden then because of how poor that was functionally, this is just a slightly better version of that.

Also good luck fighting runners in pvp, because you're never gonna stun them as they'll just run away or kite away from you during the downtime of the delay effect. This isn't PVE where enemies will just stay still for 2 seconds while you parse them down and warden has no tangible way to stick to an enemy. We aren't templars where we can just toppling charge an enemy.

I main a warden in PVP and use polar wind.., no one was playing warden because of all the classes they did not had a reliable burst heal it was not about the stun. The buff given to this skill and its success is because its a good heal and both morphs have great function of healing and additional effects. This is a slight change and still strong but its requires bit more skillful planning. And sorry if it changes your offense mode they huge annoying factor of this skill was the stun and heal on execution. Bit braindead oh I am almost dead I heal up and leave the attackers stunned and I am out of execution danger with 1 press.

All of those problems literally didn't exist if you played Stam warden, but people still would not play a DPS warden much. Stam warden/hybrid warden was insanely powerful because they utilized the healing the best of all warden specs ever since Ascending Tide. Heck even before ascending Tide stam warden reigned above magden in pvp. People still didn't want to predominately play warden, despite how in a good spot stamden was.

So It's clearly nothing to do with healing. The pain points of warden has ALWAYS been offense. The offensive kit is what gets tweaked and nerfed patch after patch. Remember how many times Shalks got changed? ", Arctic got changed continually as well, birds have been changed continually to make the skill good. Warden literally has been in the same pool as Necro where the defense was ALWAYS good, but the offense SUCKED. Unless you played a stam warden, because weapon skills could fill in that need for offensive skills.

It's literally only because of recent hybridization that has made warden more accessible. Vigor changes, getting a stun, changes to northern storm, passives, etc. Has made it a lot better both offensively and defensively. There was a lot more power added to the class that just wasn't there, but the class has always lacked offensively due to constant balancing.

Anyways onto the main point:

This change is just moving backwards and removing the accessibility that the class had lacked. The change to arctic blast wasn't good because it had a nice heal, it was good because it had a good stun. Warden literally was already the heal stacking class so the heal change from prior patch, albeit good, wasn't necessary in making warden accessible(it already was defensively). Reducing the effectiveness of the stun just makes it harder to play, because there's a lot of people who don't want to die in pvp, whether it be building tanky or just outright running away.

This just makes it a lot slower to fight players who build to not get killed or like to run away from fights like a Cloak spamming nightblade or a sorc that streaks after getting hit 1 time(albeit these builds are already hard to kill, but this just makes it borderline impossible to kill these players who already don't want to be caught).

OBJnoob

I'm not sure it makes a huge difference either way. Plenty of people use Polar Wind and they won't be effected at all. Some people using Arctic didn't like the fact that they didn't have very much control of when they stunned people. Some people of course rightfully found the immediate stun useful from a defensive standpoint. I'm honestly more upset that this found it's way to the top of their priority list than upset about the actual change. Just seems like there were a lot more egregious things to worry about. Having a combined stun and heal wasn't as OP or unique as some people said.

SandandStars

It is highly likely that its effectiveness as protection against gankblades was the primary reason it was nerfed.

LittlePinkDot

SandandStars wrote: »

It is highly likely that its effectiveness as protection against gankblades was the primary reason it was nerfed.

Gankblades can gank wardens?? Since when?
My Warden is the tankiest character I have.
Just hold block and spam polar wind as necessary.
If they're going to cloak constantly I just walk away and find somebody more interesting.

OBJnoob

Good gankblades can gank just about everybody. I'm not sure if it's a gank... I don't think I've been legitimately ganked since lethal arrow stopped desyncing... And nightblades can heal pretty well these days so the two-shot gank combo isn't really their preferred style anymore. Nevertheless, whatever you want to call it, I'll be in BGs sometimes having a good old time doing pretty well for myself standing in the middle of the 4v4v4 scrum and weathering the storm cuz most of my toons are brawlers. And then SHWACK some NB turns their attention to me and pops me with assassins will for a nice 10 or 15k.

It's much harder to avoid than some people make it seem. When you're already busy, and some NB who's already built their stacks up on somebody else comes up and just unloads on you. It feels like being ganked. In broad daylight.

Getting hit by concealed weapons for like 7 or 8k. Friggin NBs are naaaasty.

SandandStars

Also, not all Warden builds are tanks. My Magden is built to get kills in PvP and is far squishier than the Block n Heal Meta.

Bushido2513

The immediate stun was just not very rewarding for play. Basically you got two good things at once and everyone was using it. It was great for the common player looking to defend and get someone right of them but that's not inviting engaging gameplay.