React wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

React wrote: »

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

Sedare38 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Detect Pots are not full time up. Its just going to happen when someone knows to look for you. Sure; it's a hit to NBs trying to hit and run, but the class will not be dead because of it.

I'm almost positive this was introduced by groups just keeping 1 stealth well away and rezzing and permanently staying inside keeps and different regions with not threat of being cleared out

clearly you haven't been around a certain AD group on BR that runs 15-30 deep, chain casts sentry rotate detect pots like clockwork.

100m detect pots are going to kill an entire playstyle adding to the stupidity of Sentry with unlimited view + sentry swap (get the buff, then swap to your actual combat gear and retain the detect buff).

AuraNebula wrote: »

Sure there's a massive change. Bombers and gankers will be non existent thanks to 100m detect pots. A whole class will be basically eliminated from pvp.

I'm not forgetting it - I think it is a great change that is completely warranted from a balance standpoint. Just not something that is going to impact the larger issues present in the current meta.

Despite cloak not working well when you're being hit by multiple people, it undeniably is the strongest defensive ability in the game. Realistically it should have a ramping cost like streak or roll dodge - but if there isn't going to be a ramping cost, than a signifcant buff to detect pots seems reasonable to me. I think they should probably also buff detection skills, too.

As someone using a detect pot, you're already signifcantly sacrificing just to counter one ability on one class - losing your access to tripots or immovable, or in some cases major weapon damage or spell crit buffs. I might also add that detect potions are still bugged. It seems like stealthed targets do not update their location to the server as frequently as visible targets - this results in them "skipping" or "rubber banding" when you can see them in stealth via a detect pot, making them extremely difficult to hit with melee range spammables or pbAOEs.

This buff isn't going to "kill the nightblade playstyle" if you actually engage with the class further than just spamming cloak and going for ganks on unaware targets. There is plenty in the kit now to help with survivability and mobility, that cloak isn't mandatory whatsoever.

Do you really think NBs that use cloak have enough Magicka to sustain cloak? They don't. Ganking and bombing have been a part of the game since it's inception. 20 m detect pots already work very well and 100 m is a ridiculous length. This will kill two playstyles completely. I make my detect pots to be able to restore Magicka and increase spell power. I'm not sacrificing anything and I still find hidden NBs. They are not ganking or bombing anyone from 100m away.

This not only effects NBs but I have kids and sometimes I stealth out behind a rock or something when they need my attention. When I have a bunch of telvar and want to sneak to the entrance on my sorc I use stealth. Imagine people being able to see stealth players everywhere.

People want a very bland experience of PvP with no surprises. This is a war based game and I can't think of a single PvP game that doesn't have some type of stealth characters. This would be like removing sniping from COD.

Detect potions aren't the only thing that pulls NBs out of stealth. There are plenty of skills and now sets that can also help to reveal them. The fact is no one wants to work to counter and wants everything easy.

If you don't have enough sustain to sustain cloak, you're probably building wrong.

Yeah I can sustain clock indefinitely if I use none of my other skills. Clearly you have never played a Magicka bomber.

So detect pots should function poorly because.. you can't sustain cloak?

That is an issue on your end - in the current PVP environment, you shouldn't struggle with sustain if you're properly built. If you're playing a full glass cannon bomber or ganker with less than 1k regen, you shouldn't complain about your sustain.

You are simply exaggerating about the impact of detect potions on NBs ability to gank and bomb. This change isn't going to change anything at all for nightblade - it is simply going to slightly improve the effectiveness of one of the few true counters to cloak. A counter that comes at a cost for many users of detect pots who would otherwise be using a tri restoration or immovable potion.

It's mind blowing how disingenuous people are being regarding this change.

You do realize that you can quick slot multiple potions? Cloak is not a cheap skill, it just isn't. You can use inner light/mage light, flare, sentry set, camouflaged hunter, should I go on?

There are a ton of counters to cloak yet you refuse to use them. If you aren't already using detect pots that is why you are dying to gankers and bombers. This change would be completely useless to you considering you refuse to use detect potions anyways.

Detect potions work very well. I use them all the time and kill tons of night blades. I'm not complaining about my sustain. I manage it very well, because I am able to use stealth. Honestly just learn how to counter instead of asking for everything to be nerfed because you can't bother to slot a single potion.

Not everyone needs to run a tanky build to have fun in PvP. A glass cannon build does what it is designed to. We are easy to kill and easy to spot of you just use the counters available to you. I use immovable potions, spell dmg and crit, and detect potions. I constantly switch between them. So can you. A glass cannon build is a trade off between damage and survivability. You are giving up your survivability to essential commit suicide to get your kills lol. But it's so sad that people have to sacrifice and use one potion to counter NBs. What an atrocity.

Obviously I touched a sore spot because you just don't like bombers or gankers. I get ganked and bombed too. It doesn't bother me, it happens.

No one is ganking or bombing you from 100m away. What are you going to do? Run away from a keep because your 100m detect pot spotted someone 90m away from you? They are 20-30m from you. The furthest you can gank is 40m and even then that's rare. 100m makes no sense.

Don't ever go afk and hide behind a rock on any character. Don't try and stealth in IC to hide from players when you're trying to deposit tel var. This doesn't just affect NBs. It affects everyone.

You shouldn't complain about having to use a detect pot since your build is so viable in the current meta itt shouldn't matter that you occasionally need to use one.

AuraNebula wrote: »

You do realize that you can quick slot multiple potions? Cloak is not a cheap skill, it just isn't. You can use inner light/mage light, flare, sentry set, camouflaged hunter, should I go on?

AuraNebula wrote: »

There are a ton of counters to cloak yet you refuse to use them. This change would be completely useless to you considering you refuse to use detect potions anyways.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Honestly just learn how to counter instead of asking for everything to be nerfed because you can't bother to slot a single potion.

That is a lot of assumptions you're making about me. I have detects slotted at all times, and I also have camo hunter slotted on the majority of builds that I play. I utilize these things as needed to counter nightblades. I still do not think that detect potions are reliable enough in their current state, and that revealing everybody in stealth within render distance is a completely reasonable upgrade.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Obviously I touched a sore spot because you just don't like bombers or gankers. I get ganked and bombed too. It doesn't bother me, it happens.

I mean, I'm not sore. You came to a thread where I didn't even mention this change, and insisted that this change "removes an entire class from PVP". That is simply untrue. You are grossly over-exaggerating.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Don't ever go afk and hide behind a rock on any character. Don't try and stealth in IC to hide from players when you're trying to deposit tel var. This doesn't just affect NBs. It affects everyone.

Sorry, but this isn't even a slightly valid point. People aren't popping detects to scan random nooks and corners looking for you. Conversely, if you go AFK in a PVP zone, you probably should accept that you might die.

AuraNebula wrote: »

React wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

You do realize that you can quick slot multiple potions? Cloak is not a cheap skill, it just isn't. You can use inner light/mage light, flare, sentry set, camouflaged hunter, should I go on?

AuraNebula wrote: »

There are a ton of counters to cloak yet you refuse to use them. This change would be completely useless to you considering you refuse to use detect potions anyways.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Honestly just learn how to counter instead of asking for everything to be nerfed because you can't bother to slot a single potion.

That is a lot of assumptions you're making about me. I have detects slotted at all times, and I also have camo hunter slotted on the majority of builds that I play. I utilize these things as needed to counter nightblades. I still do not think that detect potions are reliable enough in their current state, and that revealing everybody in stealth within render distance is a completely reasonable upgrade.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Obviously I touched a sore spot because you just don't like bombers or gankers. I get ganked and bombed too. It doesn't bother me, it happens.

I mean, I'm not sore. You came to a thread where I didn't even mention this change, and insisted that this change "removes an entire class from PVP". That is simply untrue. You are grossly over-exaggerating.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Don't ever go afk and hide behind a rock on any character. Don't try and stealth in IC to hide from players when you're trying to deposit tel var. This doesn't just affect NBs. It affects everyone.

Sorry, but this isn't even a slightly valid point. People aren't popping detects to scan random nooks and corners looking for you. Conversely, if you go AFK in a PVP zone, you probably should accept that you might die.

Do you realize how far 100m is? That's the point. You don't need to scan random nooks. You will literally be able to stealthed people for 100m. All you have to do is look around.

There isn't a single NB who is using cloak indefinitely. The majority do rely on stealth. Lots of people use stealth.

You're right if your in a PvP zone you might die and you just might happen to die to a gankers or bomber.

No one is ganking you from 100m away. No one. If you're already using detect potions and camouflaged hunter then idk what to tell you. You're just expecting people to pop up in front of your place, when in reality they are hiding between nooks and crannies that you don't bother to check.

You said there were no changes to pvp. But there is. I just pointed one out and you didn't like mt opinion of the change. I'm not going to reply to you anymore so have a good day.

@AzuraNebula

There are tons of posts out there like this. They don't understand the value of havening invisibility as a tactical option to players in the game. I mean, clearly its needed because of reasons I've stated and others too. Adds a sort of tension to the game, kind of like that game Alien Isolation. You never know when someone is going to pop out at you, which makes things interesting.

I think part of the problem is people take things uh maybe too personally or something. I got ganked uh streamer gank guy shot me down with a bow or that other annoying fellow from DC. Omitting names but some know exactly whom I'm referring to. But even with that said, there are so many ways to a) protect yourself from NBs and b) Pull them out of stealth without this childish, immature blanket stealth detection crap that's getting forced on us.

Its both childish and comical to use a pot or a set and instantly see everyone around you. I mean, there's another side to this which I will never discuss on here but some know what I mean. For the matter at hand its ridiculous to have this kind of feature because it overrides EVERY counter to stealth we already have. I mean why bother throwing stealth detect ability (whever its called) or using CP to get extra detection range. Why bother having invisibility at all. You know, people don't want to lose they want to be 100% protected at all times and obviously many of them have NEVER been to War before. War is hell and it is never fair. And if it is fair then rest assured you are not war with the other party.

Uhhhh omg why do I even bother. I'm just so sick and tired, not just ZOS, but even you know dealing with lousy, bad decisions being made by people who do not share my values even though I've spent loads of time and money on something. You would think the Devs would see the light of day, even if not for me right, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.

New Maps and PVP zones would be wonderful 😀

If healing in PVP could be addressed as well or the Undeath Passive, it'd be grrrreat 😆✌️

⚔️

There is sooooo much potential with ESO PvP, but it is not being realized.... Even simple things widely requested are being ignored. Where are the 3v3 battlegrounds? Why is cross healing still broken? Where is the 1v1 tournament mode?

Idk about everyone else, but ZoS has officially lost me as a customer until PvP receives the love it's due. I only log in for endeavors at this point....

React wrote: »

From a PVP perspective, it looks like nothing at all will be changing next patch. All of the new sets are lackluster, the new mythics are underwhelming or poorly designed, and there are hardly any notable balance changes coming.

The only changes that will have any impact and are genuinely good changes, are the nerf to mara's balm and the +2 meter increase to melee range.

We're in a terrible PVP meta that will be over a year old by the end of necrom. It is absurdly easy to sustain, absurdly easy to heal/survive, cross healing in the form of HOT stacking and burst heals is way too high, the most effective damage builds utilize 2-3 proc sets to deal the damage for you, etc.

Why isn't any of this being addressed? We used to get our meta shifted a couple times a year, and often when it was already in a much healthier state than our current meta. The current meta seems to be almost unanimously rejected by the vocal majority as unbalanced and unfun, and yet zenimax hasn't even shared a word about their opinions on it - whether they're happy with the current state or PVP balance, aware of the issues, planning changes, etc.

We have received 0 new PVP content in four and a half years. We have been told that there is a "code rewrite" coming that will solve all of our performance and bug related issues, but that project keeps getting pushed back and now requests for information are being ignored.

I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with the state of the game, and the actions (or lack thereof) of the developers this past year, as I know these sentiments are shared among many in the community. We were promised better communication and swifter action regarding bugfixing and performance/balance improvements, but we're nearly halfway through the year and I've yet to see zenimax make good on any of these promises.

It isn't just PVP for this chapter it is also PVE that is ignored. Sure there is a new, area and new content but absolutely no reason to do it unless you are building an Arcanist. That is their answer for everything this chapter "Let them play Archanist!" I hope there is enough money in the archanists to keep the servers running for time to make some new content for the larger game PVP and PVE.

React wrote: »

I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with the state of the game, and the actions (or lack thereof) of the developers this past year, as I know these sentiments are shared among many in the community. We were promised better communication and swifter action regarding bugfixing and performance/balance improvements, but we're nearly halfway through the year and I've yet to see zenimax make good on any of these promises.

Well said and I appreciate you taking the time to point things out in such clarity. On top of everything they seem to now have decided to completely go radio silent. Would love to be hear what kind of talk is going on in Zenimax offices at the moment.

React wrote: »

From a PVP perspective, it looks like nothing at all will be changing next patch. All of the new sets are lackluster, the new mythics are underwhelming or poorly designed, and there are hardly any notable balance changes coming.

The only changes that will have any impact and are genuinely good changes, are the nerf to mara's balm and the +2 meter increase to melee range.

We're in a terrible PVP meta that will be over a year old by the end of necrom. It is absurdly easy to sustain, absurdly easy to heal/survive, cross healing in the form of HOT stacking and burst heals is way too high, the most effective damage builds utilize 2-3 proc sets to deal the damage for you, etc.

Why isn't any of this being addressed? We used to get our meta shifted a couple times a year, and often when it was already in a much healthier state than our current meta. The current meta seems to be almost unanimously rejected by the vocal majority as unbalanced and unfun, and yet zenimax hasn't even shared a word about their opinions on it - whether they're happy with the current state or PVP balance, aware of the issues, planning changes, etc.

We have received 0 new PVP content in four and a half years. We have been told that there is a "code rewrite" coming that will solve all of our performance and bug related issues, but that project keeps getting pushed back and now requests for information are being ignored.

I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with the state of the game, and the actions (or lack thereof) of the developers this past year, as I know these sentiments are shared among many in the community. We were promised better communication and swifter action regarding bugfixing and performance/balance improvements, but we're nearly halfway through the year and I've yet to see zenimax make good on any of these promises.

Aren’t you forgetting that a new class is being introduced. That will change everyone’s experience with the game.

StaticWave wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

React wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

You do realize that you can quick slot multiple potions? Cloak is not a cheap skill, it just isn't. You can use inner light/mage light, flare, sentry set, camouflaged hunter, should I go on?

AuraNebula wrote: »

There are a ton of counters to cloak yet you refuse to use them. This change would be completely useless to you considering you refuse to use detect potions anyways.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Honestly just learn how to counter instead of asking for everything to be nerfed because you can't bother to slot a single potion.

That is a lot of assumptions you're making about me. I have detects slotted at all times, and I also have camo hunter slotted on the majority of builds that I play. I utilize these things as needed to counter nightblades. I still do not think that detect potions are reliable enough in their current state, and that revealing everybody in stealth within render distance is a completely reasonable upgrade.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Obviously I touched a sore spot because you just don't like bombers or gankers. I get ganked and bombed too. It doesn't bother me, it happens.

I mean, I'm not sore. You came to a thread where I didn't even mention this change, and insisted that this change "removes an entire class from PVP". That is simply untrue. You are grossly over-exaggerating.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Don't ever go afk and hide behind a rock on any character. Don't try and stealth in IC to hide from players when you're trying to deposit tel var. This doesn't just affect NBs. It affects everyone.

Sorry, but this isn't even a slightly valid point. People aren't popping detects to scan random nooks and corners looking for you. Conversely, if you go AFK in a PVP zone, you probably should accept that you might die.

Do you realize how far 100m is? That's the point. You don't need to scan random nooks. You will literally be able to stealthed people for 100m. All you have to do is look around.

There isn't a single NB who is using cloak indefinitely. The majority do rely on stealth. Lots of people use stealth.

You're right if your in a PvP zone you might die and you just might happen to die to a gankers or bomber.

No one is ganking you from 100m away. No one. If you're already using detect potions and camouflaged hunter then idk what to tell you. You're just expecting people to pop up in front of your place, when in reality they are hiding between nooks and crannies that you don't bother to check.

You said there were no changes to pvp. But there is. I just pointed one out and you didn't like mt opinion of the change. I'm not going to reply to you anymore so have a good day.

Nobody is going to pop a detect pot to scan a random spot in the middle of nowhere in Cyrodiil. They'll definitely scan the nooks and crannies within a keep though, which makes perfect sense because they don't want to have any stealth rezzers rezzing entire group up and take the keep back from the inside.

So why is it not fair that people should be able to find you hiding inside THEIR keep?

I think the pain point is not for players A vs B fighting each other in a keep or some other place. It’s that player C, who may be far outside the keep, and have no idea of the A vs B conflict, suddenly being exposed for no apparent reason.

Let’s take a different situation. A solo player in a delve going for a skyshard, they are in stealth and playing cautiously. Player B enters and pops a potion, exposing player A even though the two may not be aware of each other.

As someone who avoids cyrodiil as much as I can. Making it harder for me to NOT engage in Pvp is just a further deterrent from going in there.

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

React wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

You do realize that you can quick slot multiple potions? Cloak is not a cheap skill, it just isn't. You can use inner light/mage light, flare, sentry set, camouflaged hunter, should I go on?

AuraNebula wrote: »

There are a ton of counters to cloak yet you refuse to use them. This change would be completely useless to you considering you refuse to use detect potions anyways.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Honestly just learn how to counter instead of asking for everything to be nerfed because you can't bother to slot a single potion.

That is a lot of assumptions you're making about me. I have detects slotted at all times, and I also have camo hunter slotted on the majority of builds that I play. I utilize these things as needed to counter nightblades. I still do not think that detect potions are reliable enough in their current state, and that revealing everybody in stealth within render distance is a completely reasonable upgrade.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Obviously I touched a sore spot because you just don't like bombers or gankers. I get ganked and bombed too. It doesn't bother me, it happens.

I mean, I'm not sore. You came to a thread where I didn't even mention this change, and insisted that this change "removes an entire class from PVP". That is simply untrue. You are grossly over-exaggerating.

AuraNebula wrote: »

Don't ever go afk and hide behind a rock on any character. Don't try and stealth in IC to hide from players when you're trying to deposit tel var. This doesn't just affect NBs. It affects everyone.

Sorry, but this isn't even a slightly valid point. People aren't popping detects to scan random nooks and corners looking for you. Conversely, if you go AFK in a PVP zone, you probably should accept that you might die.

Do you realize how far 100m is? That's the point. You don't need to scan random nooks. You will literally be able to stealthed people for 100m. All you have to do is look around.

There isn't a single NB who is using cloak indefinitely. The majority do rely on stealth. Lots of people use stealth.

You're right if your in a PvP zone you might die and you just might happen to die to a gankers or bomber.

No one is ganking you from 100m away. No one. If you're already using detect potions and camouflaged hunter then idk what to tell you. You're just expecting people to pop up in front of your place, when in reality they are hiding between nooks and crannies that you don't bother to check.

You said there were no changes to pvp. But there is. I just pointed one out and you didn't like mt opinion of the change. I'm not going to reply to you anymore so have a good day.

Nobody is going to pop a detect pot to scan a random spot in the middle of nowhere in Cyrodiil. They'll definitely scan the nooks and crannies within a keep though, which makes perfect sense because they don't want to have any stealth rezzers rezzing entire group up and take the keep back from the inside.

So why is it not fair that people should be able to find you hiding inside THEIR keep?

I think the pain point is not for players A vs B fighting each other in a keep or some other place. It’s that player C, who may be far outside the keep, and have no idea of the A vs B conflict, suddenly being exposed for no apparent reason.

Let’s take a different situation. A solo player in a delve going for a skyshard, they are in stealth and playing cautiously. Player B enters and pops a potion, exposing player A even though the two may not be aware of each other.

As someone who avoids cyrodiil as much as I can. Making it harder for me to NOT engage in Pvp is just a further deterrent from going in there.

It should be a deterrent. You shouldn't feel safe by being completely AFK just by crouching. And especially not somewhere near an objective trying to sop up AP

Did not say they were afk (although bio does happen from time to time). Also this might happen if there is no apparent objective being flipped. Like my example was in a delve.

But what ever.