What about PVP, though?

React

From a PVP perspective, it looks like nothing at all will be changing next patch. All of the new sets are lackluster, the new mythics are underwhelming or poorly designed, and there are hardly any notable balance changes coming.

The only changes that will have any impact and are genuinely good changes, are the nerf to mara's balm and the +2 meter increase to melee range.

We're in a terrible PVP meta that will be over a year old by the end of necrom. It is absurdly easy to sustain, absurdly easy to heal/survive, cross healing in the form of HOT stacking and burst heals is way too high, the most effective damage builds utilize 2-3 proc sets to deal the damage for you, etc.

Why isn't any of this being addressed? We used to get our meta shifted a couple times a year, and often when it was already in a much healthier state than our current meta. The current meta seems to be almost unanimously rejected by the vocal majority as unbalanced and unfun, and yet zenimax hasn't even shared a word about their opinions on it - whether they're happy with the current state or PVP balance, aware of the issues, planning changes, etc.

We have received 0 new PVP content in four and a half years. We have been told that there is a "code rewrite" coming that will solve all of our performance and bug related issues, but that project keeps getting pushed back and now requests for information are being ignored.

I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with the state of the game, and the actions (or lack thereof) of the developers this past year, as I know these sentiments are shared among many in the community. We were promised better communication and swifter action regarding bugfixing and performance/balance improvements, but we're nearly halfway through the year and I've yet to see zenimax make good on any of these promises.

danthemann5

You might as well direct your comments to Congress, Babe Ruth, the Pope, or the Great Pumpkin. The likelihood of getting a meaningful response from one of them is significantly higher.

CameraBeardThePirate

danthemann5 wrote: »

You might as well direct your comments to Congress, Babe Ruth, the Pope, or the Great Pumpkin. The likelihood of getting a meaningful response from one of them is significantly higher.

A sad but true fact. After all of ZOS's talk about ramping up communication, not a whole lot has changed.

danthemann5

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

danthemann5 wrote: »

You might as well direct your comments to Congress, Babe Ruth, the Pope, or the Great Pumpkin. The likelihood of getting a meaningful response from one of them is significantly higher.

A sad but true fact. After all of ZOS's talk about ramping up communication, not a whole lot has changed.

Whatever do you mean? There has been all sorts of communication regarding the crown crates not being giftable crisis that's gripping the nation.

TechMaybeHic

They are totally going to get to this stuff after the recoding/rethreading/whatever its called this year is done. I look forward to hear how that is progressing at the end of the year when they go over the plan for it is to go forward next year again.

VixxVexx

The changes are just too slow (mara took a whole year). It feels like a skeleton crew with these abysmal updates.

Dojohoda

Is there a crew?

xDeusEJRx

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They are totally going to get to this stuff after the recoding/rethreading/whatever its called this year is done. I look forward to hear how that is progressing at the end of the year when they go over the plan for it is to go forward next year again.

The communication is basically non-existent. As far as I know they haven't made any forum update regarding hardware refreshes. Playstation EU and xbox NA have apparently been updated but I haven't been able to find any threads indicating this occured.
Only 1 forum thread where Bethesda acknowledged it on twitter, which is cool, but not everyone is a twitter user. Would prefer them actually mention that here

AuraNebula

Sure there's a massive change. Bombers and gankers will be non existent thanks to 100m detect pots. A whole class will be basically eliminated from pvp.

gariondavey

Great post.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_MattFiror
Would any of you please comment on the concerns react raises?

Draxund

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

Kaysha

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

As tests have shown, it will be somewhat managable for magblades who can spam cloak.
Everyone else should forget about crouching. For me, this is a massive nerf to my playstyle on all classes.
Due to an active family, I cannot run with groups who require 2 hours of uninterrupted attention.
That´s why ESO´s PvP was perfect for me (until now). No problem with playing solo, as you can fight with your faction and go afk when the family demands it (small kids).

Now that freedom is taken away. And I guess I´m not the only one with this problem. For me, this greatly reduces the "accessibility of ESO´s PvP" wink @ZOS_RichLambert

TechMaybeHic

Detect Pots are not full time up. Its just going to happen when someone knows to look for you. Sure; it's a hit to NBs trying to hit and run, but the class will not be dead because of it.

I'm almost positive this was introduced by groups just keeping 1 stealth well away and rezzing and permanently staying inside keeps and different regions with not threat of being cleared out

Sedare38

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Detect Pots are not full time up. Its just going to happen when someone knows to look for you. Sure; it's a hit to NBs trying to hit and run, but the class will not be dead because of it.

I'm almost positive this was introduced by groups just keeping 1 stealth well away and rezzing and permanently staying inside keeps and different regions with not threat of being cleared out

clearly you haven't been around a certain AD group on BR that runs 15-30 deep, chain casts sentry rotate detect pots like clockwork.

100m detect pots are going to kill an entire playstyle adding to the stupidity of Sentry with unlimited view + sentry swap (get the buff, then swap to your actual combat gear and retain the detect buff).

IncultaWolf

What about pvp? They don't seem to care much about it or the horrible balance. Necromancer is still the worst class in the game and still the only class in the game without major brutality/sorcery built into the toolkit.

IAVITNI

React wrote: »

From a PVP perspective, it looks like nothing at all will be changing next patch. All of the new sets are lackluster, the new mythics are underwhelming or poorly designed, and there are hardly any notable balance changes coming.

The only changes that will have any impact and are genuinely good changes, are the nerf to mara's balm and the +2 meter increase to melee range.

We're in a terrible PVP meta that will be over a year old by the end of necrom. It is absurdly easy to sustain, absurdly easy to heal/survive, cross healing in the form of HOT stacking and burst heals is way too high, the most effective damage builds utilize 2-3 proc sets to deal the damage for you, etc.

Why isn't any of this being addressed? We used to get our meta shifted a couple times a year, and often when it was already in a much healthier state than our current meta. The current meta seems to be almost unanimously rejected by the vocal majority as unbalanced and unfun, and yet zenimax hasn't even shared a word about their opinions on it - whether they're happy with the current state or PVP balance, aware of the issues, planning changes, etc.

We have received 0 new PVP content in four and a half years. We have been told that there is a "code rewrite" coming that will solve all of our performance and bug related issues, but that project keeps getting pushed back and now requests for information are being ignored.

I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with the state of the game, and the actions (or lack thereof) of the developers this past year, as I know these sentiments are shared among many in the community. We were promised better communication and swifter action regarding bugfixing and performance/balance improvements, but we're nearly halfway through the year and I've yet to see zenimax make good on any of these promises.

PvP won't get a real pass until the consequences of hybridization are addressed. NB and DK are extreme outliers here but stamina classes as a whole are basically obsolete. Because most utility/heal abilities are mag based, it's better to just build hybrid or mag. There's no such thing as Stam in PvP, or anywhere tbh.

Personally would just prefer if they reverted hybridization scaling on class abilities. That change completely nuked has of the subclasses in ESO

CameraBeardThePirate

IAVITNI wrote: »

React wrote: »

From a PVP perspective, it looks like nothing at all will be changing next patch. All of the new sets are lackluster, the new mythics are underwhelming or poorly designed, and there are hardly any notable balance changes coming.

The only changes that will have any impact and are genuinely good changes, are the nerf to mara's balm and the +2 meter increase to melee range.

We're in a terrible PVP meta that will be over a year old by the end of necrom. It is absurdly easy to sustain, absurdly easy to heal/survive, cross healing in the form of HOT stacking and burst heals is way too high, the most effective damage builds utilize 2-3 proc sets to deal the damage for you, etc.

Why isn't any of this being addressed? We used to get our meta shifted a couple times a year, and often when it was already in a much healthier state than our current meta. The current meta seems to be almost unanimously rejected by the vocal majority as unbalanced and unfun, and yet zenimax hasn't even shared a word about their opinions on it - whether they're happy with the current state or PVP balance, aware of the issues, planning changes, etc.

We have received 0 new PVP content in four and a half years. We have been told that there is a "code rewrite" coming that will solve all of our performance and bug related issues, but that project keeps getting pushed back and now requests for information are being ignored.

I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with the state of the game, and the actions (or lack thereof) of the developers this past year, as I know these sentiments are shared among many in the community. We were promised better communication and swifter action regarding bugfixing and performance/balance improvements, but we're nearly halfway through the year and I've yet to see zenimax make good on any of these promises.

PvP won't get a real pass until the consequences of hybridization are addressed. NB and DK are extreme outliers here but stamina classes as a whole are basically obsolete. Because most utility/heal abilities are mag based, it's better to just build hybrid or mag. There's no such thing as Stam in PvP, or anywhere tbh.

Personally would just prefer if they reverted hybridization scaling on class abilities. That change completely nuked has of the subclasses in ESO

This is painting with quite a broad stroke - for some classes like Necro, stamina became the go-to after hybridization. Nearly everyone runs Vigor now, mag or stam, no matter the class.

The problem isn't hybridization - it's the lack of options. Most skills have a single morph that vastly outperforms the other.

React

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

Sedare38 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Detect Pots are not full time up. Its just going to happen when someone knows to look for you. Sure; it's a hit to NBs trying to hit and run, but the class will not be dead because of it.

I'm almost positive this was introduced by groups just keeping 1 stealth well away and rezzing and permanently staying inside keeps and different regions with not threat of being cleared out

clearly you haven't been around a certain AD group on BR that runs 15-30 deep, chain casts sentry rotate detect pots like clockwork.

100m detect pots are going to kill an entire playstyle adding to the stupidity of Sentry with unlimited view + sentry swap (get the buff, then swap to your actual combat gear and retain the detect buff).

AuraNebula wrote: »

Sure there's a massive change. Bombers and gankers will be non existent thanks to 100m detect pots. A whole class will be basically eliminated from pvp.

I'm not forgetting it - I think it is a great change that is completely warranted from a balance standpoint. Just not something that is going to impact the larger issues present in the current meta.

Despite cloak not working well when you're being hit by multiple people, it undeniably is the strongest defensive ability in the game. Realistically it should have a ramping cost like streak or roll dodge - but if there isn't going to be a ramping cost, than a signifcant buff to detect pots seems reasonable to me. I think they should probably also buff detection skills, too.

As someone using a detect pot, you're already signifcantly sacrificing just to counter one ability on one class - losing your access to tripots or immovable, or in some cases major weapon damage or spell crit buffs. I might also add that detect potions are still bugged. It seems like stealthed targets do not update their location to the server as frequently as visible targets - this results in them "skipping" or "rubber banding" when you can see them in stealth via a detect pot, making them extremely difficult to hit with melee range spammables or pbAOEs.

This buff isn't going to "kill the nightblade playstyle" if you actually engage with the class further than just spamming cloak and going for ganks on unaware targets. There is plenty in the kit now to help with survivability and mobility, that cloak isn't mandatory whatsoever.

acastanza_ESO

No, there's definitely no problem with groups of nightblades with dedicated rezers camping inside trikeeps indefinitely group ganking pugs.
It's definitely the new detect pots that are the problem.

Jaimeh

VixxVexx wrote: »

The changes are just too slow (mara took a whole year). It feels like a skeleton crew with these abysmal updates.

This is my impression as well... fixes seem slower and slower, and if something does get fixed it usually takes months. They've said the game is not in maintenance mode but it sure feels that way. The only team that seems to be alive and kicking is the monetization team, with the non-stop gem-exclusive designs.

ItsNotLiving

I’d just like a little bit of communication on what they’re planning whether it be some balance changes they didn’t want to drop with Arcanist or new content or anything like that. Maybe like a road map or something just to satiate some of the PvPers here.

Veinblood1965

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

I'm waiting to see if this actually makes it live. My favourite PVP toon is my NB. Stealth is the core ability of the class. The second it makes it live I definitely will be unsubscribing. It pretty much just guts the class for any stealth related activities. I'm not much of a ganker but it is handy to get out of bad situations since NB's are not very good toe to toe most days.

acastanza_ESO

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

NB's are not very good toe to toe most days.

This is a really common misconception! Its extremely easy to build a nightblade that is, tanky, fast, and hard hitting, and doesn't use stealth at all. It is one of the strongest and most versatile classes in the game!

React

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

I'm waiting to see if this actually makes it live. My favourite PVP toon is my NB. Stealth is the core ability of the class. The second it makes it live I definitely will be unsubscribing. It pretty much just guts the class for any stealth related activities. I'm not much of a ganker but it is handy to get out of bad situations since NB's are not very good toe to toe most days.

https://youtu.be/UP-bEfq3v8c

Nightblade does just fine without cloak. People just are unwilling to learn how to play without utilizing what is inarguably the strongest defensive ability in the game.

The detect pot change does not remove the cloak playstyle whatsoever, that is a gross over exaggeration.

Vulkunne

danthemann5 wrote: »

You might as well direct your comments to Congress, Babe Ruth, the Pope, or the Great Pumpkin. The likelihood of getting a meaningful response from one of them is significantly higher.

Great Pumpkin is out of season, it will still be 5 months before he can respond. I look forward to his thoughts on this matter however.

CameraBeardThePirate

React wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

I'm waiting to see if this actually makes it live. My favourite PVP toon is my NB. Stealth is the core ability of the class. The second it makes it live I definitely will be unsubscribing. It pretty much just guts the class for any stealth related activities. I'm not much of a ganker but it is handy to get out of bad situations since NB's are not very good toe to toe most days.

https://youtu.be/UP-bEfq3v8c

Nightblade does just fine without cloak. People just are unwilling to learn how to play without utilizing what is inarguably the strongest defensive ability in the game.

The detect pot change does not remove the cloak playstyle whatsoever, that is a gross over exaggeration.

This times a hundred. The change to detect pots doesn't even affect the potion's overall strength that much anyways. The pots aren't up 100% of the time, and people generally don't just drink them on cooldown - they're reserved for when you know the nightblade is already there and well within the 100m range. This will only be a big nerf for the nightblades that try to escape by holding their W key and smashing invisible over and over again. The NB defensive kit nowadays in really strong with the changes to Path and their burst heal, not to mention the "get out of jail free card" that is Shade. NBs will be just fine.

Nerhesi

React wrote: »

We're in a terrible PVP meta since release

Sorry I had to fix this for you.

I truly wish this game would have a good pvp experience, unfortunately, this game is doing decent despite the combat system.

PvP has failed to attract people, even though this is the elder scrolls franchise due to a variety of reasons, some of which are so systemic that fixing it would make this a different game. I think to address the issue that keeps combat as the objectively worst part of this game (frequently referred to as janky in many reviews or videos), you would have to address who there is "role" in the "roleplaying" mmo game that is ESO.

Back to basics, completely revamp pvp, TTK should be 30 seconds or less regardless of gear for 2 dps builds. If you want an action combat rpg, you can't have the meta being everyone has to have good pressure, dps, burst, cc, heal, mitigation and sustain... The play the way you want only work for PvE.

Right now, we're fooling ourselves thinking there was every a health PvP meta while we're playing Counterstrike with health-bars that reset every 4 seconds.

AuraNebula

React wrote: »

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

Sedare38 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Detect Pots are not full time up. Its just going to happen when someone knows to look for you. Sure; it's a hit to NBs trying to hit and run, but the class will not be dead because of it.

I'm almost positive this was introduced by groups just keeping 1 stealth well away and rezzing and permanently staying inside keeps and different regions with not threat of being cleared out

clearly you haven't been around a certain AD group on BR that runs 15-30 deep, chain casts sentry rotate detect pots like clockwork.

100m detect pots are going to kill an entire playstyle adding to the stupidity of Sentry with unlimited view + sentry swap (get the buff, then swap to your actual combat gear and retain the detect buff).

AuraNebula wrote: »

Sure there's a massive change. Bombers and gankers will be non existent thanks to 100m detect pots. A whole class will be basically eliminated from pvp.

I'm not forgetting it - I think it is a great change that is completely warranted from a balance standpoint. Just not something that is going to impact the larger issues present in the current meta.

Despite cloak not working well when you're being hit by multiple people, it undeniably is the strongest defensive ability in the game. Realistically it should have a ramping cost like streak or roll dodge - but if there isn't going to be a ramping cost, than a signifcant buff to detect pots seems reasonable to me. I think they should probably also buff detection skills, too.

As someone using a detect pot, you're already signifcantly sacrificing just to counter one ability on one class - losing your access to tripots or immovable, or in some cases major weapon damage or spell crit buffs. I might also add that detect potions are still bugged. It seems like stealthed targets do not update their location to the server as frequently as visible targets - this results in them "skipping" or "rubber banding" when you can see them in stealth via a detect pot, making them extremely difficult to hit with melee range spammables or pbAOEs.

This buff isn't going to "kill the nightblade playstyle" if you actually engage with the class further than just spamming cloak and going for ganks on unaware targets. There is plenty in the kit now to help with survivability and mobility, that cloak isn't mandatory whatsoever.

Do you really think NBs that use cloak have enough Magicka to sustain cloak? They don't. Ganking and bombing have been a part of the game since it's inception. 20 m detect pots already work very well and 100 m is a ridiculous length. This will kill two playstyles completely. I make my detect pots to be able to restore Magicka and increase spell power. I'm not sacrificing anything and I still find hidden NBs. They are not ganking or bombing anyone from 100m away. Gankers and bombers are so squishy and they are very easy to kill on their glass cannon builds. If you just use situational awareness and minimal counters you're fine. They are a very small majority of the players. People just don't like dying in a PvP game so they blame everything on whatever kills them.

This not only effects NBs but I have kids and sometimes I stealth out behind a rock or something when they need my attention. When I have a bunch of telvar and want to sneak to the entrance on my sorc I use stealth. Imagine people being able to see stealth players everywhere.

People want a very bland experience of PvP with no surprises. This is a war based game and I can't think of a single PvP game that doesn't have some type of stealth characters. This would be like removing sniping from COD.

Detect potions aren't the only thing that pulls NBs out of stealth. There are plenty of skills and now sets that can also help to reveal them. The fact is no one wants to work to counter and wants everything easy.

CameraBeardThePirate

AuraNebula wrote: »

React wrote: »

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

Sedare38 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Detect Pots are not full time up. Its just going to happen when someone knows to look for you. Sure; it's a hit to NBs trying to hit and run, but the class will not be dead because of it.

I'm almost positive this was introduced by groups just keeping 1 stealth well away and rezzing and permanently staying inside keeps and different regions with not threat of being cleared out

clearly you haven't been around a certain AD group on BR that runs 15-30 deep, chain casts sentry rotate detect pots like clockwork.

100m detect pots are going to kill an entire playstyle adding to the stupidity of Sentry with unlimited view + sentry swap (get the buff, then swap to your actual combat gear and retain the detect buff).

AuraNebula wrote: »

Sure there's a massive change. Bombers and gankers will be non existent thanks to 100m detect pots. A whole class will be basically eliminated from pvp.

I'm not forgetting it - I think it is a great change that is completely warranted from a balance standpoint. Just not something that is going to impact the larger issues present in the current meta.

Despite cloak not working well when you're being hit by multiple people, it undeniably is the strongest defensive ability in the game. Realistically it should have a ramping cost like streak or roll dodge - but if there isn't going to be a ramping cost, than a signifcant buff to detect pots seems reasonable to me. I think they should probably also buff detection skills, too.

As someone using a detect pot, you're already signifcantly sacrificing just to counter one ability on one class - losing your access to tripots or immovable, or in some cases major weapon damage or spell crit buffs. I might also add that detect potions are still bugged. It seems like stealthed targets do not update their location to the server as frequently as visible targets - this results in them "skipping" or "rubber banding" when you can see them in stealth via a detect pot, making them extremely difficult to hit with melee range spammables or pbAOEs.

This buff isn't going to "kill the nightblade playstyle" if you actually engage with the class further than just spamming cloak and going for ganks on unaware targets. There is plenty in the kit now to help with survivability and mobility, that cloak isn't mandatory whatsoever.

Do you really think NBs that use cloak have enough Magicka to sustain cloak? They don't. Ganking and bombing have been a part of the game since it's inception. 20 m detect pots already work very well and 100 m is a ridiculous length. This will kill two playstyles completely. I make my detect pots to be able to restore Magicka and increase spell power. I'm not sacrificing anything and I still find hidden NBs. They are not ganking or bombing anyone from 100m away.

This not only effects NBs but I have kids and sometimes I stealth out behind a rock or something when they need my attention. When I have a bunch of telvar and want to sneak to the entrance on my sorc I use stealth. Imagine people being able to see stealth players everywhere.

People want a very bland experience of PvP with no surprises. This is a war based game and I can't think of a single PvP game that doesn't have some type of stealth characters. This would be like removing sniping from COD.

Detect potions aren't the only thing that pulls NBs out of stealth. There are plenty of skills and now sets that can also help to reveal them. The fact is no one wants to work to counter and wants everything easy.

If you don't have enough sustain to sustain cloak, you're probably building wrong.

AuraNebula

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

React wrote: »

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

Sedare38 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Detect Pots are not full time up. Its just going to happen when someone knows to look for you. Sure; it's a hit to NBs trying to hit and run, but the class will not be dead because of it.

I'm almost positive this was introduced by groups just keeping 1 stealth well away and rezzing and permanently staying inside keeps and different regions with not threat of being cleared out

clearly you haven't been around a certain AD group on BR that runs 15-30 deep, chain casts sentry rotate detect pots like clockwork.

100m detect pots are going to kill an entire playstyle adding to the stupidity of Sentry with unlimited view + sentry swap (get the buff, then swap to your actual combat gear and retain the detect buff).

AuraNebula wrote: »

Sure there's a massive change. Bombers and gankers will be non existent thanks to 100m detect pots. A whole class will be basically eliminated from pvp.

I'm not forgetting it - I think it is a great change that is completely warranted from a balance standpoint. Just not something that is going to impact the larger issues present in the current meta.

Despite cloak not working well when you're being hit by multiple people, it undeniably is the strongest defensive ability in the game. Realistically it should have a ramping cost like streak or roll dodge - but if there isn't going to be a ramping cost, than a signifcant buff to detect pots seems reasonable to me. I think they should probably also buff detection skills, too.

As someone using a detect pot, you're already signifcantly sacrificing just to counter one ability on one class - losing your access to tripots or immovable, or in some cases major weapon damage or spell crit buffs. I might also add that detect potions are still bugged. It seems like stealthed targets do not update their location to the server as frequently as visible targets - this results in them "skipping" or "rubber banding" when you can see them in stealth via a detect pot, making them extremely difficult to hit with melee range spammables or pbAOEs.

This buff isn't going to "kill the nightblade playstyle" if you actually engage with the class further than just spamming cloak and going for ganks on unaware targets. There is plenty in the kit now to help with survivability and mobility, that cloak isn't mandatory whatsoever.

Do you really think NBs that use cloak have enough Magicka to sustain cloak? They don't. Ganking and bombing have been a part of the game since it's inception. 20 m detect pots already work very well and 100 m is a ridiculous length. This will kill two playstyles completely. I make my detect pots to be able to restore Magicka and increase spell power. I'm not sacrificing anything and I still find hidden NBs. They are not ganking or bombing anyone from 100m away.

This not only effects NBs but I have kids and sometimes I stealth out behind a rock or something when they need my attention. When I have a bunch of telvar and want to sneak to the entrance on my sorc I use stealth. Imagine people being able to see stealth players everywhere.

People want a very bland experience of PvP with no surprises. This is a war based game and I can't think of a single PvP game that doesn't have some type of stealth characters. This would be like removing sniping from COD.

Detect potions aren't the only thing that pulls NBs out of stealth. There are plenty of skills and now sets that can also help to reveal them. The fact is no one wants to work to counter and wants everything easy.

If you don't have enough sustain to sustain cloak, you're probably building wrong.

Yeah I can sustain clock indefinitely if I use none of my other skills. Clearly you have never played a Magicka bomber.

React

AuraNebula wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

React wrote: »

Draxund wrote: »

You're forgetting a MASSIVE change to the core gameplay of an entire class (NB); it seems the 100 meter detect stealth pots are intended or won't be changed back. This is the assumption at this point since it has not been addressed (and the other respective thread on here doesn't rise to the top when you reply in it). It's an item that fundamentally removes stealth NBs from the game (or any other class that wants to stealth/hide).

Sedare38 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Detect Pots are not full time up. Its just going to happen when someone knows to look for you. Sure; it's a hit to NBs trying to hit and run, but the class will not be dead because of it.

I'm almost positive this was introduced by groups just keeping 1 stealth well away and rezzing and permanently staying inside keeps and different regions with not threat of being cleared out

clearly you haven't been around a certain AD group on BR that runs 15-30 deep, chain casts sentry rotate detect pots like clockwork.

100m detect pots are going to kill an entire playstyle adding to the stupidity of Sentry with unlimited view + sentry swap (get the buff, then swap to your actual combat gear and retain the detect buff).

AuraNebula wrote: »

Sure there's a massive change. Bombers and gankers will be non existent thanks to 100m detect pots. A whole class will be basically eliminated from pvp.

I'm not forgetting it - I think it is a great change that is completely warranted from a balance standpoint. Just not something that is going to impact the larger issues present in the current meta.

Despite cloak not working well when you're being hit by multiple people, it undeniably is the strongest defensive ability in the game. Realistically it should have a ramping cost like streak or roll dodge - but if there isn't going to be a ramping cost, than a signifcant buff to detect pots seems reasonable to me. I think they should probably also buff detection skills, too.

As someone using a detect pot, you're already signifcantly sacrificing just to counter one ability on one class - losing your access to tripots or immovable, or in some cases major weapon damage or spell crit buffs. I might also add that detect potions are still bugged. It seems like stealthed targets do not update their location to the server as frequently as visible targets - this results in them "skipping" or "rubber banding" when you can see them in stealth via a detect pot, making them extremely difficult to hit with melee range spammables or pbAOEs.

This buff isn't going to "kill the nightblade playstyle" if you actually engage with the class further than just spamming cloak and going for ganks on unaware targets. There is plenty in the kit now to help with survivability and mobility, that cloak isn't mandatory whatsoever.

Do you really think NBs that use cloak have enough Magicka to sustain cloak? They don't. Ganking and bombing have been a part of the game since it's inception. 20 m detect pots already work very well and 100 m is a ridiculous length. This will kill two playstyles completely. I make my detect pots to be able to restore Magicka and increase spell power. I'm not sacrificing anything and I still find hidden NBs. They are not ganking or bombing anyone from 100m away.

This not only effects NBs but I have kids and sometimes I stealth out behind a rock or something when they need my attention. When I have a bunch of telvar and want to sneak to the entrance on my sorc I use stealth. Imagine people being able to see stealth players everywhere.

People want a very bland experience of PvP with no surprises. This is a war based game and I can't think of a single PvP game that doesn't have some type of stealth characters. This would be like removing sniping from COD.

Detect potions aren't the only thing that pulls NBs out of stealth. There are plenty of skills and now sets that can also help to reveal them. The fact is no one wants to work to counter and wants everything easy.

If you don't have enough sustain to sustain cloak, you're probably building wrong.

Yeah I can sustain clock indefinitely if I use none of my other skills. Clearly you have never played a Magicka bomber.

So detect pots should function poorly because.. you can't sustain cloak?

That is an issue on your end - in the current PVP environment, you shouldn't struggle with sustain if you're properly built. If you're playing a full glass cannon bomber or ganker with less than 1k regen, you shouldn't complain about your sustain.

You are simply exaggerating about the impact of detect potions on NBs ability to gank and bomb. This change isn't going to change anything at all for nightblade - it is simply going to slightly improve the effectiveness of one of the few true counters to cloak. A counter that comes at a cost for many users of detect pots who would otherwise be using a tri restoration or immovable potion.

It's mind blowing how disingenuous people are being regarding this change.