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1.0.7 ruined the vampire PVE dynamic.
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ElSlayer✭✭✭
People were exploiting cost reduction effects being stackable.AlienDiplomat wrote: »Thank you for your psychological insights, but the fact remains these nerfs didn't address the main underlying problem people were exploiting with mist form health regeneration.
Oh, let's check your gear then. How many items with "Increase health regeneration" do we see? Zero? Oh, how could you!AlienDiplomat wrote: »Try playing as a cloth wearing caster without access to fire resist enchanted jewelry and with the cooldown on heal potions and tell me again how a 75% health reduction penalty is trivial.
Next patch: "ability cost reduction not apply to Ultimate"AlienDiplomat wrote: »1) Have the ability cost reduction not apply to Ultimate.
You: THEY RUINED PVE!
Nothing changed here.
So you think that having 2 different sets of of same abilities is a good game design? Well, I don't think so.AlienDiplomat wrote: »2) Have abilities work differently in PVP zones vs PVE.
Also Cyrodiil is as much PvE zone as others.
I'm okay with it, even if they recieve healing because of bug. At least it is not spammable anymore because of cost increase.AlienDiplomat wrote: »It did NOT address the issue in PVP being exploited, where vamps could use Bat Swarm before Mist and get healed WHILE gaining the 75% damage reduction AND doing damage.
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DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pve always gets destroyed by PvP whiners, i'm just glad i never wanted to be a vampire so it didn't effect me.
But i'm sure the next PvP whine will ruin something i enjoy in Pve... just remove PvP or segregate the two and stop ruining content to please the minority..6 -
Zazar✭✭emailgosurwb17_ESO wrote:Fixes that they are doing are pretty childish, they should think of hiring somebody with balancing experience.
What about you?
Edited by Zazar on May 6, 2014 7:55AM0 -
Laura✭✭✭✭✭
✭seems fine to me. don't think its "ruined" so PvErs will have a harder time soloing public group dungeons.1 -
Spiritreaver_ESO✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »So why even have a vampire skill line then? Why not just make NPC's with those "lore friendly" abilities and forget about adding something unique and immersive to the game, if you are just going to rip it away and ruin it the first time some something goes wrong in PVP and you are too damn lazy to change the way skills work separately in PVP and PVE zones to balance things out?
EDIT: Sorry for being overly frustrated by this, but this issue really irks me. It is what ruined PVE for me in other games as well. Instead of taking the 10% more time to make skills work differently in PVP vs. PVE, they make blanket changes that wreck PVE dynamics to cater to PVP FOTM exploits.
I mean how hard would that be in a game like this where there are no PVP servers?
IF (in cyrodiil) AND (Ability X), do this.
IF (not in cyrodiil) AND (Ability X), do that.
IF (target is player) AND (Ability Y), do this.
IF (target is not player) AND (Ability Y), do this.
Jesus just efing shoot me!
I don't see anything wrong with you being ticked over the changes, but if anyone didn't see some changes coming, i just don't know what to say to that.
In PvP, the reasons for the changes were fairly evident. Might not agree with them, the extent ZOS took them, but reasons were abundant for change. On the PvE front though, it was really past time for some changes. Many many examples, but i'll only use the one that really sticks in my mind: feeding.
A recent conversation in my guild illustrated a mindset that really needed to be addressed. Guildmates were asking why they should bother to feed. That may seem pretty innocuous, but when you think about it, it is a pretty serious issue. As things were, the bonus from being stage 4 all the time out-weighed having to feed every 30 min to keep one of the lower stages.
Throw in the way ppl were just shrugging off other negatives and there was just no real reason NOT to be a vampire. When it got to that pitch, adjustment was inevitable.
Anyways, i wanted my first character to be a vampire assassin in the Dark Brotherhood. I'm half-way there. I figured from previous TES titles, there would be some downsides for that type of character, so these changes and most probable future ones, are something i just planned for and am ok with. I do feel for players who looked into vampirism for other reasons and are now rethinking their decision however.2 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »And I am sorry, but you are running your mouth without having the slightest idea what you are talking about.
That made my day
I was Vamp aswell, cured it because it got boring because of reasons and swapped to werewolf. I know exactly what i am talking about.
And yeah, i am even sorry for you that you are not that much OP anymore and can tank 30 ppl anymore. Please Zenimax, give dem vampires 90% reduction on stage one. They are sooo useless now!
Come on.. Take that tissue to swipe away your vamp tears. This change was absolute mandatory. For the sake of the whole game. My Guild lost a couple ppl coz they got tired of that vamp crap going on.
Just because someone isnt sharing your opinion doesnt mean they dont know what they are talking about.
But theres something we all can agree on. Vamp tears are the best tears
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Draconiuos✭✭✭Pve always gets destroyed by PvP whiners, i'm just glad i never wanted to be a vampire so it didn't effect me.
But i'm sure the next PvP whine will ruin something i enjoy in Pve... just remove PvP or segregate the two and stop ruining content to please the minority..
They said from the start they weren't going to do that. Perhaps next time do some research. Also, how do you know pvp players are the minority here? Are you part of ZOS? Do you have access to the data for the servers?0 -
emailgosurwb17_ESO wrote:Fixes that they are doing are pretty childish, they should think of hiring somebody with balancing experience.
What about you?
Yea its funny, but I would make sure that EU server would never be in US in the beginning and I would not wait 1 month to do a fix on vamp ultimate and ruin the rest of the vampires with it.0 -
Zazar✭✭emailgosurwb17_ESO wrote: »emailgosurwb17_ESO wrote:Fixes that they are doing are pretty childish, they should think of hiring somebody with balancing experience.
What about you?
Yea its funny, but I would make sure that EU server would never be in US in the beginning and I would not wait 1 month to do a fix on vamp ultimate and ruin the rest of the vampires with it.
So you're applying for a Lead Game Designer / Lead Technical Designer job. Cocky.
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Hexi✭✭✭✭✭Vampires have always been worthless in PvE, because none of the skills work properly. Been playing one since day 6 of the game, and the only skill worth anything in PvE is the drain, but only on things not immune to stun. Batswarm is only good for packs but against anything that matter in PvE, it's useless.
You're just upset because something was nerfed. Maybe you weren't aware, but the passive that reduces damage taken based on remaining hp? Never worked. Increased regen? Breaks on zoning/death/sneezing, just like cost reductions.0 -
theinsaneb16_ESO✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »The latest changes in patch 1.0.7 have pretty well ruined the vampire dynamic for me as a PVE player.
For one thing I like to heal dungeons, and my build used a combination of the heavy armor Immovable buff and my vampire stage to reduce the cost of Drain Essence, to save magic for heals while also protecting myself against heal aggro and things that would come to beat on me.
This is no longer viable I am finding, as the insane nerf to ability cost reduction has me OOM before most large AOE pulls are finished.
Stage 2:
From 20% to 7% vampire ability cost reduction.
Same 25% health regen reduction.
Stage 3:
From 40% to 14% vampire ability cost reduction.
Same 50% health regen reduction.
Stage 5:
From 60% to 21% vampire ability cost reduction.
Same 75% health regen reduction.
So I have to go to stage four and suffer a 75% reduction in health regen just to get the near useless 20% vampire specific ability cost reduction that I used to get in stage two, for what? Because some d-bags in PVP were exploiting something completely unrelated?
So instead of doing something practical, like changing the way abilities work in PVP zones or against other players, they decide to take the lazy quick path and ruin the play style for legitimate players.
If ZOS wanted to be modern about it and not just another MMO company that ruins PVE because they are too lazy to balance PVP for the whiners separate from the way abilities work against non-players and in non-PVP zones, they would have simply made the reduction not apply to ultimate, or apply less to ultimate.
This feels more like they just phoned in some wrist slap "OK, people are crying about PVP exploits? Lets wreck the play style in question and get back to the cocktails and steel drums."
Bat Swarm should never have stacked with itself that is true, yet the ability to still be healed while in mist form which was the real problem to begin with still hasn't been addressed as far as I can tell. Nevermind the legitamate bugs like passives ceasing to function on death, or Drain Essence not activating half the time or doing so with a 1-2 second lag.
But what the hell is the purpose of this movement speed nerf to Mist Form other than to just be rude?
The vampire ability cost reduction nerf makes vampire stages essentially pointless and a penalty rather than a trait that makes the play style unique. As a PVE player, I loved that aspect of the game. I have mods installed to track my stage so I know when I need to feed to update my buff to keep it where I want it based on the situation.
You took something that gave the class a unique feel and experience and turned it into little more than a cosmetic gimmick and a health regen penalty, all to NOT fix half the problems in PVP that should be handled completely separate from the way things work in PVE.
Yeah, this patch is almost as big a disappointment to me as the army of bots.
EDIT for semantics.
What are you complaining about? So ppl in pvp may use mist almost 100% of the time becoming nearly unkillable so that you can use drain essence and become nearly unkillable in pve? You are just pissed off because it isnt a walk in the park for you anymore haha. L2P man.
If you need all that stuff because you want to save up for healing agro etc..I would say find a better tank so you dont get agro at all.
his vampire nerf is only justified. I myself am a vampire as well and I like this nerf idea for us vamps. Vamps are supposed to have their ups and downs. 20% reduction max in stage 4 is perfect. Before this change we were damn wel overpowered because our skills were even almost free of charge in stage 4 and that is just ridiculous.
This is perfect, now we really have to choose for the most health regen but lesser less % skill cost, or more skill cost reduction but nearly no health regen in stage 4. This is perfect and totally balanced now. I play pvp AND pve vamp and I love this change with this nerf I feel more like a vampire with feeding needs muahaha. Instead of just being another extra class in the game. Vamps and werewolfs should feel special and now it damn wel does.
Thx ZOS! I know you listen to the community and try to think of options but this time close your ears and dont listen to do ppl who want a walk in the park. Trust me ZOS many will agree and many wont but this Vamp nerf is perfect and this is a Vamp saying this so that counts for something.
Keep up the good work ZOS!3 -
emailgosurwb17_ESO wrote: »emailgosurwb17_ESO wrote:Fixes that they are doing are pretty childish, they should think of hiring somebody with balancing experience.
What about you?
Yea its funny, but I would make sure that EU server would never be in US in the beginning and I would not wait 1 month to do a fix on vamp ultimate and ruin the rest of the vampires with it.
So you're applying for a Lead Game Designer / Lead Technical Designer job. Cocky.
No, I am not applying anywhere, I already have my work and I love it.
I am just saying that some problems are obvious and they were obvious in Beta too.
Also critical bugs should be fixed immediately, every hour ruins economy and makes many people sad.
They are developing this game as if it is a single player offline game, you need to consider people who will abuse bugs every single minute if they are not fixed.Edited by emailgosurwb17_ESO on May 6, 2014 8:14AM1 -
Starnes✭✭✭Okay so you signed up to a game that was advertised from the start as having a strong emphasis on pvp, especially end game... heck even an exclusive and most prestigious sounding title/skill line "Emperor" to it way before they even had raids and you're complaining that pvp is forcing pve changes to skills? Really?
Pvp is essential to ESO, moreso than let's say WoW. You have to accept that and understand balancing will be done around it. If you want a pve game there are some out there.Edited by Starnes on May 6, 2014 8:27AM2 -
Zazar✭✭@emailgosurwb17_ESO : I was just teasing you, I agree with some points you developed. Edited by Zazar on May 6, 2014 8:28AM0
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Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Okay so you signed up to a game that was advertised from the start as having a strong emphasis on pvp, especially end game... heck even an exclusive and most prestigious sounding title/skill line "Emperor" to it way before they even had raids and you're complaining that pvp is forcing pve changes to skills? Really?
Pvp is essential to ESO, moreso than let's say WoW. You have to accept that and understand balancing will be done around it. If you want a pve game there are some out there.
....haha, this is amusing. What game have you been playing because there is nothing remotely essential about pvp in this game so to use that as an argument for ruining pve (which makes up the majority of this game) is just laughable.☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB5 -
Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Okay so you signed up to a game that was advertised from the start as having a strong emphasis on pvp, especially end game... heck even an exclusive and most prestigious sounding title/skill line "Emperor" to it way before they even had raids and you're complaining that pvp is forcing pve changes to skills? Really?
Pvp is essential to ESO, moreso than let's say WoW. You have to accept that and understand balancing will be done around it. If you want a pve game there are some out there.
....haha, this is amusing. What game have you been playing because there is nothing remotely essential about pvp in this game so to use that as an argument for ruining pve (which makes up the majority of this game) is just laughable.
Right, at the moment this looks like a pure PvE built game with some attempts to make it PvP.0 -
theinsaneb16_ESO✭✭✭emailgosurwb17_ESO wrote: »Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Okay so you signed up to a game that was advertised from the start as having a strong emphasis on pvp, especially end game... heck even an exclusive and most prestigious sounding title/skill line "Emperor" to it way before they even had raids and you're complaining that pvp is forcing pve changes to skills? Really?
Pvp is essential to ESO, moreso than let's say WoW. You have to accept that and understand balancing will be done around it. If you want a pve game there are some out there.
....haha, this is amusing. What game have you been playing because there is nothing remotely essential about pvp in this game so to use that as an argument for ruining pve (which makes up the majority of this game) is just laughable.
Right, at the moment this looks like a pure PvE built game with some attempts to make it PvP.
haha this isnt a pve game, this is a pve / pvp MMO. Pppl who love pve can go pve and ppl who love pvp can go pvp, they are not attempting to make it a pvp game.
Some ppl clearly dont know what they are doing or playing, stop complaining and try to understand the changes instead of trying to change the changes to your own hand. WE didnt make this game, we pay to play this game out of our own choosing we can stop paying and playing whenever we want so we dont have any rights in changing this0 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭Totally agree with it. @AlienDiplomat, you're speaking as if it was your entire class. But no sir, it's just a "bonus" skill line which needs to get in line with other skill lines.
Agreed. I'm sick of what seems to be the cultural obsession with blasted vampires. Removing the skill line totally would suit me fine a every third player seems to be a vampire nowadays. Seems to be no actual penalty attached to it. They can just wander around unmolested. If they are going to be in game it should have serious downsides in line with the setting.
No Fighter's Guild membership. Attacked on sight in towns. No grouping with non-vampire players etc.1 -
DanteYoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Thats funny if they said that why isn't it like that, why are pve skills getting nerfed due to PvP..Draconiuos wrote: »Pve always gets destroyed by PvP whiners, i'm just glad i never wanted to be a vampire so it didn't effect me.
But i'm sure the next PvP whine will ruin something i enjoy in Pve... just remove PvP or segregate the two and stop ruining content to please the minority..
They said from the start they weren't going to do that. Perhaps next time do some research. Also, how do you know pvp players are the minority here? Are you part of ZOS? Do you have access to the data for the servers?
And PvP is a minority in all mmo's just look at dedicated PvP servers lucky if there are two and 8 to 10 full PvE servers in every other mmo, just because you cannot see it here due to mega servers its no different.
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steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »Totally agree with it. @AlienDiplomat, you're speaking as if it was your entire class. But no sir, it's just a "bonus" skill line which needs to get in line with other skill lines.
Agreed. I'm sick of what seems to be the cultural obsession with blasted vampires. Removing the skill line totally would suit me fine a every third player seems to be a vampire nowadays. Seems to be no actual penalty attached to it. They can just wander around unmolested. If they are going to be in game it should have serious downsides in line with the setting.
No Fighter's Guild membership. Attacked on sight in towns. No grouping with non-vampire players etc.
You clearly are NOT a vampire right? You have never been hit for 1k+ dmg from a fire spell if you do not have fire resist? No downsides? Go try your jibberish somewhere else, there ARE downsides and they are quite heavy and they now removed the only plusses - being able to use ultimate and abilities more often.
This was NOT fix it was just a work around to force people out of the vamp skills by making them useless. Good job PvP cry babies for ruining the game for everybody else.
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Gee, welcome to the werewolf world and to the things we experience EVERY DAY.
And let's face it, vamps needed toning down. It's funny to see all these cries on forums about their suffering and issues and yet in the game, every day I see zillion vamps run around (I don't think I've seen almost any non-vamp at Vet levels, unless the poor player chose a WW) and have no issues whatsoever and reap the benefits as vamps (and don't waste your breath telling otherwise, I've been playing this game since beta and know what I see) what WW's or those who didn't chose either (which is super rare) can't get.0 -
Starnes✭✭✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Okay so you signed up to a game that was advertised from the start as having a strong emphasis on pvp, especially end game... heck even an exclusive and most prestigious sounding title/skill line "Emperor" to it way before they even had raids and you're complaining that pvp is forcing pve changes to skills? Really?
Pvp is essential to ESO, moreso than let's say WoW. You have to accept that and understand balancing will be done around it. If you want a pve game there are some out there.
....haha, this is amusing. What game have you been playing because there is nothing remotely essential about pvp in this game so to use that as an argument for ruining pve (which makes up the majority of this game) is just laughable.
You're right... let's compare end game pvp and pve... for pvp we have Cyrodiil, for pve we have... oh wait.. what do we have again?
How does one become emperor again?
How long did it take them to even start talking about end-game pve?
I'm not trying to jibe you here but you do have to acknowledge that pvp is and has been a fundamental part of this game.3 -
ShintaiDK✭✭✭The abilities abused in PvP was just as abused in PvE.
Its very simply, respec and get cured. And if you still feel its hard, then you obviously couldnt play well without being OP. Welcome to the rest of us.0 -
Draconiuos✭✭✭
Perhaps you didn't realize I was talking about the part in bold. Also, There are MMOs still out there that are nothing but pvp, and they do well too. You have no idea what the numbers look like in this game, and are just trying to make up facts to suit your agenda.
Thats funny if they said that why isn't it like that, why are pve skills getting nerfed due to PvP..Draconiuos wrote: »Pve always gets destroyed by PvP whiners, i'm just glad i never wanted to be a vampire so it didn't effect me.
But i'm sure the next PvP whine will ruin something i enjoy in Pve... just remove PvP or segregate the two and stop ruining content to please the minority..
They said from the start they weren't going to do that. Perhaps next time do some research. Also, how do you know pvp players are the minority here? Are you part of ZOS? Do you have access to the data for the servers?
And PvP is a minority in all mmo's just look at dedicated PvP servers lucky if there are two and 8 to 10 full PvE servers in every other mmo, just because you cannot see it here due to mega servers its no different.
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xMovingTarget wrote: »And for what it stands now, you lil Edwards are still more powerful than werewolfs.
I prefer lil Blades, or lil Nosferatus, tyvm
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UniscornScarebear wrote: »xMovingTarget wrote: »And for what it stands now, you lil Edwards are still more powerful than werewolfs.
I prefer lil Blades, or lil Nosferatus, tyvm
Forum needs a "Hur-dur" and "Jingoist" button to go with the "Agree", "LOL", etc.Edited by Phinix1 on May 6, 2014 9:54AM0 -
AlienDiplomat wrote: »UniscornScarebear wrote: »xMovingTarget wrote: »And for what it stands now, you lil Edwards are still more powerful than werewolfs.
I prefer lil Blades, or lil Nosferatus, tyvm
Forum needs a "Hur-dur" and "Jingoist" button to go with the "Agree", "LOL", etc.
"Butthurt" would be nice imo.
"Jingoist"? lmfao.
I guess someone prefers lil Edwards...Edited by UniscornScarebear on May 6, 2014 10:06AM1
