Definitely agree!

It should, at the very least, have a class source on the Warden. But sourcing from additional sets would be nice since Nunatak is... not a very good set.

SoraJP wrote: »

I was just discussing this with some buddies. Warden really should have it in their class kit. It could very easily be tacked onto Permafrost ult, make that skill actually viable. Trial groups would actually be able to use wardens like they do with necros and their colos.

i think permafrost's utility is fine as is, northern storm on the otherhand could definitely use some work. i would prefer they buff permafrost's damage back to how it was before, and to make northern storm no longer apply major protection, but instead to tick once every 2 seconds for 30 seconds. major brittle would be nice for trash packs, but since crit buffs are handled really well in optimised groups i don't see much use for it there past trash packs.

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

I think that the play is to give Major Brittle to Wardens first and then address their actual DPS kit to make them more desirable in min/maxed raids.

Trying to find the perfect Major Brittle mechanic that only a DD can leverage properly is just an exercise in chasing our own tail around.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Wardens can ,rather effectively, EC/kosh in trials. If we were to "jail" a warden with this and major brittle, it would bring warden up to the ranks of an EC cro.

SoraJP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Wardens can ,rather effectively, EC/kosh in trials. If we were to "jail" a warden with this and major brittle, it would bring warden up to the ranks of an EC cro.

Much of our kit is balanced around bear. As we already struggle with damage, dropping bear for northern storm in this state would be terrible for our damage output. I understand that warhorn and barrier are important but i still can see warden supports taking northern storm for trash pulls and not much else. You'd likely need nazaray to get the best use out of this in actual boss fights which makes it strange especially for a dps who would have to hold ult. Isn't that how it already works with collosus maybe that makes the problem worse. Would it be worth just to be able to run some other options? I'm just not sure.

I don't think Im against the idea, but i am extremely worried that it could potentially just be another situation where warden utility mainly goes to support again, meanwhile northern storm remains crap for actual damage output

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major Brittle on a single class toolkit would make that class too OP. The suggestion to add it to a spammable ability on top of it all is hugely optimistic, some may call it insane, regardless of the class's "theme" and how it pairs with the debuff.

I definitely don't think it should be added to a spammable but it would probably work if it was placed on northern storm as a replacement over major protection, i'm not sure if it would be overpowered but it's certainly possible in pvp. In pve, crit caps are already being achieved so outside of trash, it's hard to say how good it'd be in raid fights. In pvp it would definitely be incredibly strong. losing major protection from northern storm to replace it with major brittle on enemies would be a good trade-off for your group provided they're critting a lot, but the loss of major protection would mean that there is that tradeoff unless you stack 2 wardens at once.

I personally am of the mind that icy rage should apply major brittle instead of immobilizing enemies as it's stationary and most commonly a trash fight ultimate. Icy Rage is bad and heavily outclassed by the flame and shock versions.

Northern storm should last 30 seconds but tick once every 2 at the tradeoff for losing aoe major protection. In return, permafrost should have it's damage returned.

Dr_Con wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major Brittle on a single class toolkit would make that class too OP. The suggestion to add it to a spammable ability on top of it all is hugely optimistic, some may call it insane, regardless of the class's "theme" and how it pairs with the debuff.

I definitely don't think it should be added to a spammable but it would probably work if it was placed on northern storm as a replacement over major protection, i'm not sure if it would be overpowered but it's certainly possible in pvp. In pve, crit caps are already being achieved so outside of trash, it's hard to say how good it'd be in raid fights. In pvp it would definitely be incredibly strong. losing major protection from northern storm to replace it with major brittle on enemies would be a good trade-off for your group provided they're critting a lot, but the loss of major protection would mean that there is that tradeoff unless you stack 2 wardens at once.

I personally am of the mind that icy rage should apply major brittle instead of immobilizing enemies as it's stationary and most commonly a trash fight ultimate. Icy Rage is bad and heavily outclassed by the flame and shock versions.

Northern storm should last 30 seconds but tick once every 2 at the tradeoff for losing aoe major protection. In return, permafrost should have it's damage returned.

I would rather all classes get access to it rather than just the one. Maybe it could be available on the destro ult on ice staff (not the "eye" one but the one that you can cast in an area), for example, or maybe they release a body set whose 5th piece is like Nazaray's, or maybe they just increase the number of set sources of Major Brittle. Any one of these suggestions would improve the state of this debuff. Major Protection has many sources, including being a slotted passive on flare, and isn't an equivalent tradeoff for Major Brittle.

That would be icy rage which i already mentioned. I also think its a better fit. In terms of utility i think dps warden lacks access to applying minor toughness with ease. And our damage is lower than any other class right now.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Wardens can ,rather effectively, EC/kosh in trials. If we were to "jail" a warden with this and major brittle, it would bring warden up to the ranks of an EC cro.

Much of our kit is balanced around bear. As we already struggle with damage, dropping bear for northern storm in this state would be terrible for our damage output. I understand that warhorn and barrier are important but i still can see warden supports taking northern storm for trash pulls and not much else. You'd likely need nazaray to get the best use out of this in actual boss fights which makes it strange especially for a dps who would have to hold ult. Isn't that how it already works with collosus maybe that makes the problem worse. Would it be worth just to be able to run some other options? I'm just not sure.

I don't think Im against the idea, but i am extremely worried that it could potentially just be another situation where warden utility mainly goes to support again, meanwhile northern storm remains crap for actual damage output

While I have always used bear, and will continue to use bear for the ease of use, I have started using Northern Storm a little bit in specific cases like with The Committee in HoF. It isn't that bad, and with minor heroism from Oakensoul, can get 100% uptime on the weapon/spell damage buff. It is like a better version of Dawnbreaker, but getting the defensive passive instead of the fighter's guild 3% damage for slotting is really the only thing holding me back from using more. This ult is on the verge of being viable, and Major Brittle can make it.