More sources of Major Brittle?

Meldor_Greenwood

For the Q3 DLC, could you look into adding more sources of Major Brittle? With the crit damage cap in place, stacking these modifiers isn't problematic anymore.

YandereGirlfriend

Definitely agree!

It should, at the very least, have a class source on the Warden. But sourcing from additional sets would be nice since Nunatak is... not a very good set.

SoraJP

I was just discussing this with some buddies. Warden really should have it in their class kit. It could very easily be tacked onto Permafrost ult, make that skill actually viable. Trial groups would actually be able to use wardens like they do with necros and their colos.

ESO_Nightingale

SoraJP wrote: »

I was just discussing this with some buddies. Warden really should have it in their class kit. It could very easily be tacked onto Permafrost ult, make that skill actually viable. Trial groups would actually be able to use wardens like they do with necros and their colos.

i think permafrost's utility is fine as is, northern storm on the otherhand could definitely use some work. i would prefer they buff permafrost's damage back to how it was before, and to make northern storm no longer apply major protection, but instead to tick once every 2 seconds for 30 seconds. major brittle would be nice for trash packs, but since crit buffs are handled really well in optimised groups i don't see much use for it there past trash packs.

Soarora

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

ESO_Nightingale

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Chufu

Agree would be nice to have more variety in getting Major Brittle. Only Nunatak as option is a bit weak, especially because it requires really specific things to be activated.

YandereGirlfriend

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

I think that the play is to give Major Brittle to Wardens first and then address their actual DPS kit to make them more desirable in min/maxed raids.

Trying to find the perfect Major Brittle mechanic that only a DD can leverage properly is just an exercise in chasing our own tail around.

Soarora

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Whilst that is true, if it were on northern storm that’d mean giving up a warhorn or putting a warhorn on a DPS, giving up ult dmg. It could also be difficult for a warden healer to use since they are often the kite healer. If it were put on something like… the morph of bear people stopped using (eternal) then a healer would really struggle to use it due to having no warhorn OR barrier and the bear run time. Especially because when a healer is swapped to a dps or a hybrid dps, it is not the warden who changes. As far as I know, anyways.
Or even putting it on something like arctic blast, too short range for even a group healer.
The range issue could easily be solved by putting it on a warden tank but warden tank also isn’t used much outside of cloudrest and brp so… (also it’d mean giving up polar wind).

SoraJP

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Wardens can ,rather effectively, EC/kosh in trials. If we were to "jail" a warden with this and major brittle, it would bring warden up to the ranks of an EC cro.

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

I think that the play is to give Major Brittle to Wardens first and then address their actual DPS kit to make them more desirable in min/maxed raids.

Trying to find the perfect Major Brittle mechanic that only a DD can leverage properly is just an exercise in chasing our own tail around.

I don't think it should be designed around only a dd being able to reasonably achieve it. I'm just saying that it's inevitable for supports to try to find some way to cram it into their kit due to how open the game is when it comes to build freedom. It'll always be more optimal to put as many supportive effects on supports to free up damage on damage dealers as possible

ESO_Nightingale

SoraJP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Wardens can ,rather effectively, EC/kosh in trials. If we were to "jail" a warden with this and major brittle, it would bring warden up to the ranks of an EC cro.

Much of our kit is balanced around bear. As we already struggle with damage, dropping bear for northern storm in this state would be terrible for our damage output. I understand that warhorn and barrier are important but i still can see warden supports taking northern storm for trash pulls and not much else. You'd likely need nazaray to get the best use out of this in actual boss fights which makes it strange especially for a dps who would have to hold ult. Isn't that how it already works with collosus maybe that makes the problem worse. Would it be worth just to be able to run some other options? I'm just not sure.

I don't think Im against the idea, but i am extremely worried that it could potentially just be another situation where warden utility mainly goes to support again, meanwhile northern storm remains crap for actual damage output

Dr_Con

Major Brittle on a single class toolkit would make that class too OP. The suggestion to add it to a spammable ability on top of it all is hugely optimistic, some may call it insane, regardless of the class's "theme" and how it pairs with the debuff.

ESO_Nightingale

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major Brittle on a single class toolkit would make that class too OP. The suggestion to add it to a spammable ability on top of it all is hugely optimistic, some may call it insane, regardless of the class's "theme" and how it pairs with the debuff.

I definitely don't think it should be added to a spammable but it would probably work if it was placed on northern storm as a replacement over major protection, i'm not sure if it would be overpowered but it's certainly possible in pvp. In pve, crit caps are already being achieved so outside of trash, it's hard to say how good it'd be in raid fights. In pvp it would definitely be incredibly strong. losing major protection from northern storm to replace it with major brittle on enemies would be a good trade-off for your group provided they're critting a lot, but the loss of major protection would mean that there is that tradeoff unless you stack 2 wardens at once.

I personally am of the mind that icy rage should apply major brittle instead of immobilizing enemies as it's stationary and most commonly a trash fight ultimate. Icy Rage is bad and heavily outclassed by the flame and shock versions.

Northern storm should last 30 seconds but tick once every 2 at the tradeoff for losing aoe major protection. In return, permafrost should have it's damage returned.

Dr_Con

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major Brittle on a single class toolkit would make that class too OP. The suggestion to add it to a spammable ability on top of it all is hugely optimistic, some may call it insane, regardless of the class's "theme" and how it pairs with the debuff.

I definitely don't think it should be added to a spammable but it would probably work if it was placed on northern storm as a replacement over major protection, i'm not sure if it would be overpowered but it's certainly possible in pvp. In pve, crit caps are already being achieved so outside of trash, it's hard to say how good it'd be in raid fights. In pvp it would definitely be incredibly strong. losing major protection from northern storm to replace it with major brittle on enemies would be a good trade-off for your group provided they're critting a lot, but the loss of major protection would mean that there is that tradeoff unless you stack 2 wardens at once.

I personally am of the mind that icy rage should apply major brittle instead of immobilizing enemies as it's stationary and most commonly a trash fight ultimate. Icy Rage is bad and heavily outclassed by the flame and shock versions.

Northern storm should last 30 seconds but tick once every 2 at the tradeoff for losing aoe major protection. In return, permafrost should have it's damage returned.

I would rather all classes get access to it rather than just the one. Maybe it could be available on the destro ult on ice staff (not the "eye" one but the one that you can cast in an area), for example, or maybe they release a body set whose 5th piece is like Nazaray's, or maybe they just increase the number of set sources of Major Brittle. Any one of these suggestions would improve the state of this debuff. Major Protection has many sources, including being a slotted passive on flare, and isn't an equivalent tradeoff for Major Brittle.

ESO_Nightingale

Dr_Con wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major Brittle on a single class toolkit would make that class too OP. The suggestion to add it to a spammable ability on top of it all is hugely optimistic, some may call it insane, regardless of the class's "theme" and how it pairs with the debuff.

I definitely don't think it should be added to a spammable but it would probably work if it was placed on northern storm as a replacement over major protection, i'm not sure if it would be overpowered but it's certainly possible in pvp. In pve, crit caps are already being achieved so outside of trash, it's hard to say how good it'd be in raid fights. In pvp it would definitely be incredibly strong. losing major protection from northern storm to replace it with major brittle on enemies would be a good trade-off for your group provided they're critting a lot, but the loss of major protection would mean that there is that tradeoff unless you stack 2 wardens at once.

I personally am of the mind that icy rage should apply major brittle instead of immobilizing enemies as it's stationary and most commonly a trash fight ultimate. Icy Rage is bad and heavily outclassed by the flame and shock versions.

Northern storm should last 30 seconds but tick once every 2 at the tradeoff for losing aoe major protection. In return, permafrost should have it's damage returned.

I would rather all classes get access to it rather than just the one. Maybe it could be available on the destro ult on ice staff (not the "eye" one but the one that you can cast in an area), for example, or maybe they release a body set whose 5th piece is like Nazaray's, or maybe they just increase the number of set sources of Major Brittle. Any one of these suggestions would improve the state of this debuff. Major Protection has many sources, including being a slotted passive on flare, and isn't an equivalent tradeoff for Major Brittle.

That would be icy rage which i already mentioned. I also think its a better fit. In terms of utility i think dps warden lacks access to applying minor toughness with ease. And our damage is lower than any other class right now.

YandereGirlfriend

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major Brittle on a single class toolkit would make that class too OP. The suggestion to add it to a spammable ability on top of it all is hugely optimistic, some may call it insane, regardless of the class's "theme" and how it pairs with the debuff.

Of course, adding it to a spammable would not be a wise choice.

However, adding it to one of the Warden ultimates, such as Northern Storm or Permafrost, would make perfect sense.

We already have strong precedent for this with Colossus and Major Vulnerability.

SoraJP

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Wardens can ,rather effectively, EC/kosh in trials. If we were to "jail" a warden with this and major brittle, it would bring warden up to the ranks of an EC cro.

Much of our kit is balanced around bear. As we already struggle with damage, dropping bear for northern storm in this state would be terrible for our damage output. I understand that warhorn and barrier are important but i still can see warden supports taking northern storm for trash pulls and not much else. You'd likely need nazaray to get the best use out of this in actual boss fights which makes it strange especially for a dps who would have to hold ult. Isn't that how it already works with collosus maybe that makes the problem worse. Would it be worth just to be able to run some other options? I'm just not sure.

I don't think Im against the idea, but i am extremely worried that it could potentially just be another situation where warden utility mainly goes to support again, meanwhile northern storm remains crap for actual damage output

While I have always used bear, and will continue to use bear for the ease of use, I have started using Northern Storm a little bit in specific cases like with The Committee in HoF. It isn't that bad, and with minor heroism from Oakensoul, can get 100% uptime on the weapon/spell damage buff. It is like a better version of Dawnbreaker, but getting the defensive passive instead of the fighter's guild 3% damage for slotting is really the only thing holding me back from using more. This ult is on the verge of being viable, and Major Brittle can make it.

ESO_Nightingale

SoraJP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

SoraJP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Agreeing on adding it to warden. Something that can’t just go on the healer. Bring warden DPS back to trials!

there is no possible way you can avoid this going on supports if it happens. northern storm recieving it just means more utility intended for frost dps wardens that will be stolen by supports. the only way to make damage dealers offer good utility is if that utility can be taken with no sacrifice to maximum output. it's another story for if that utility is unique and only really good if sourced from that dps. brittle is applyable by tanks extremely easily so it's not something warden dps is uniquely considered for. we would only be considered if minor brittle had a 1 second duration.

Wardens can ,rather effectively, EC/kosh in trials. If we were to "jail" a warden with this and major brittle, it would bring warden up to the ranks of an EC cro.

Much of our kit is balanced around bear. As we already struggle with damage, dropping bear for northern storm in this state would be terrible for our damage output. I understand that warhorn and barrier are important but i still can see warden supports taking northern storm for trash pulls and not much else. You'd likely need nazaray to get the best use out of this in actual boss fights which makes it strange especially for a dps who would have to hold ult. Isn't that how it already works with collosus maybe that makes the problem worse. Would it be worth just to be able to run some other options? I'm just not sure.

I don't think Im against the idea, but i am extremely worried that it could potentially just be another situation where warden utility mainly goes to support again, meanwhile northern storm remains crap for actual damage output

While I have always used bear, and will continue to use bear for the ease of use, I have started using Northern Storm a little bit in specific cases like with The Committee in HoF. It isn't that bad, and with minor heroism from Oakensoul, can get 100% uptime on the weapon/spell damage buff. It is like a better version of Dawnbreaker, but getting the defensive passive instead of the fighter's guild 3% damage for slotting is really the only thing holding me back from using more. This ult is on the verge of being viable, and Major Brittle can make it.

i'd love northern to be stronger so it can really pop off in aoe fights