Velothi Ur-Mage’s Amulet no difference in ''parse'' dummy 3m (Solo Noob player)

Mr_Jord_Joe · May 2023

First of all, I'm a casual player, solo player, I don't understand anything about the end game, however, I felt that I should expose the current situation of the new mythical item, with the new change, I did a test, and I noticed that the result is practically the same in DPS (target dummy 3m)

I would like to know about the more experienced players in parses, if there is still any difference, because as for me, a ''noob'' player, if this item turns out the way it is, it's not even worth it for me to get this item...

Necrotech_Master · May 2023

i think thats the point, its not supposed to just all the sudden grant you 5-10k more dps just wearing this mythic, but its supposed to make it more forgiving on weaving and have less focus on that

looking at your parses your parsing as an arcanist and using mostly fatecarver spam too which is very skill oriented and a long duration channel which doesnt need weaving to begin with

the velothi mythic right now because its dmg bonus only affects monsters, it is also not boosting proc dmg (in your parse case your not using any procs that deal dmg so this part wont have any impact)

i think for most other classes and builds in its current form will actually be a slight dps loss, especially ones that get a lot of dmg from procs

SkaraMinoc · May 2023

Barbed Trap already gives Minor Force.

1650 penetration puts you over the 18200 cap in PvE.

Ecgberht_confused · May 2023

Your loadout isn't really making use of the 2 bonuses of the ring since you already have a source of minor force (barbed trap) and your overpenetrating making the 1650 pen bonus from the ring redundant.

The other thing is that the ring 15% damage done bonus really shines in content with aoe damage since this is something LA doesn't give. So actual performance in content will be underrepresnted in parses.

MudcrabAttack · May 2023

People who don't light attack or heavy attack or join optimized groups might as well just use oakensoul. Velothi was pretty awesome for those people in the last pts patch, but now it's only marginally better dps, and it's a more complicated rotation, doesn't offer regen, doesn't offer the free major buffs or turn you into a tank

2 bars, 7 skills used and one ult

1 bar, 4 skills used and 2 ult (Because of minor heroism)

bachpain · May 2023

The mythic is useless unless you have one hand and can't click a skill and a LA between at any interval of weaving. You get the same buff,a bleed, the hemorrhage status effect, plus a passive 3% weapon and spell damage (just by having it slotted) in ONE SKILL called barbed trap. The Pen on this mythic is negligible and like was mentioned in a group you would be over the cap anyway. The 15% damage to monsters does not in any way make up for what you would lose by slotting this instead of a monster set + crappy weaving of LA's or a different mythic like the kilt.

I am not even ESO smart and I can see this mythic is trash.

Lixen · May 2023

This mythic now seems to be only viable in some trash fights (like the ones you need to constantly block) for an average player. I don't think it's anymore viable for arcanist in single target fights.

Lalothen · May 2023

Bye-bye amulet, we barely knew ye. What a terrible change - almost as bad as the change to esoteric greaves.

I was hoping finally to have a solid alternative to HA builds where I don't end up with my right hand spasming & cramping because of the highly repetitive nature of light attack weaving. This sure as heck ain't it now; they're ripped the guts out of the mythic.

miteba · May 2023

The same way they nerfed it, they will probably tweak and boost it next week, after they get some results.
It is obvious they need a temporary overpowered set (or Mythic) to sell the DLC/expansion. They will nerf it afterwards, and that is a comproved fact...

Cosmetics helps selling DLCs but for a big part of the community that is not enough... and although a new class always bring old players back (and new), they need these new OP sets to "gold dumping" and stimulate the game economy and create gaming dynamic...

So that's why i believe they will have to boost Velothi once again, because right now it seems too balanced (based in the player feedback).

WrathOfInnos · May 2023

Velothi is a DPS loss of 5-6k on my Arcanist, likely worse on other classes. The mythic is slightly underpowered and way overhyped.

bachpain · May 2023

The only thing this chapter brings that feels new or fresh at all is the archanist. Even that feels like it is a thrown together class of things that should have been addressed on other existing classes already. I am super disappointed myself.

Dagoth_Rac · May 2023

The Velothi amulet was incredibly powerful in trash pulls in Trials. It is hard to debuff the armor of so many trash mobs, and hard to apply crit damage buffs to all those mobs, and you can only LA one mob at a time. So getting that penetration against all the mobs and the extra base damage and crit damage against all those mobs, really helped melt the trash pulls. Light attacks are an important part of damage in boss fights or PvP fights, but not at all a big part of trash pulls.

So ZOS basically reduced the power of this mythic to make it good-but-not-great in Trial trash pulls, but at the expense of making it way underpowered in everything else.

Necrotech_Master · May 2023

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

The Velothi amulet was incredibly powerful in trash pulls in Trials. It is hard to debuff the armor of so many trash mobs, and hard to apply crit damage buffs to all those mobs, and you can only LA one mob at a time. So getting that penetration against all the mobs and the extra base damage and crit damage against all those mobs, really helped melt the trash pulls. Light attacks are an important part of damage in boss fights or PvP fights, but not at all a big part of trash pulls.

So ZOS basically reduced the power of this mythic to make it good-but-not-great in Trial trash pulls, but at the expense of making it way underpowered in everything else.

if you used barbed trap, it grants you the minor force, which would increase your crit dmg against the entire mob (the same thing the mythic does)

your probably thinking of brittle, which is applied on the target and would only debuff that one target

Mr_Jord_Joe · May 2023

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Velothi is a DPS loss of 5-6k on my Arcanist, likely worse on other classes. The mythic is slightly underpowered and way overhyped.

In my rotation I reached 47-48k stable, once I managed to hit 50k on dummy 3m, after the change, the maximum I got was 43k, using the same rotation...

Because I easily get the ''Minor Force'' buff the ''Barbed Trap'' which also gives 2 dots, one being a status effect, which my class increases his damage, 15% critical damage makes a lot of difference, at least in my build...

For now this mythical doesn't no difference, whether equipped or not.

Edit: Now I thought the 15% damage to monsters maybe not being applied to target dummys?

Dagoth_Rac · May 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

The Velothi amulet was incredibly powerful in trash pulls in Trials. It is hard to debuff the armor of so many trash mobs, and hard to apply crit damage buffs to all those mobs, and you can only LA one mob at a time. So getting that penetration against all the mobs and the extra base damage and crit damage against all those mobs, really helped melt the trash pulls. Light attacks are an important part of damage in boss fights or PvP fights, but not at all a big part of trash pulls.

So ZOS basically reduced the power of this mythic to make it good-but-not-great in Trial trash pulls, but at the expense of making it way underpowered in everything else.

if you used barbed trap, it grants you the minor force, which would increase your crit dmg against the entire mob (the same thing the mythic does)

your probably thinking of brittle, which is applied on the target and would only debuff that one target

In the prior patch, you got 10% from Barbed Trap plus 15% from Velothi. Pretty much everyone already has Minor Force in a Trial group, so the Minor Force on Velothi is worthless. Velothi basically went from 15% extra crit damage against trash pulls to 0% extra damage against trash pulls. That extra 15% base damage is still there, and that is nice since no one cares about losing LA damage in a trash pull.

This does somewhat play into Brittle and Elemental Catalyst and stuff like that, though. You can get good uptime of those debuffs against bosses. But very difficult to get good uptime against all the mobs in a trash pull. Maybe you could pick a few priority mobs. But that 15% crit damage from the original Velothi helped you push toward the crit damage cap in a way you normally cannot do against entire trash pulls.

Same thing with penetration. You can get lots of armor debuffs with good uptime against bosses or priority mobs, but hard to do against entire trash pulls. So that original 5000-ish penetration helped you negate the armor of the entire trash pull in ways you could not normally do.

Velothi probably was too powerful against trash pulls. But now it is OK against trash pulls but weak against everything else.

Luke_Flamesword · May 2023

i think thats the point, its not supposed to just all the sudden grant you 5-10k more dps just wearing this mythic, but its supposed to make it more forgiving on weaving and have less focus on that

If you have same result with and without mythic than is not more forgiving - the point was to buff people who have lower skill and keep the same for good players. After nerfs now it's the same for first ones and lower dps for better players. So what's the point of existing of this item?

Oaken is no brainer and it's still strong option for many players and this mythic which needs more skill (you use 2 bars instead of one-bar potato build with Oaken) is weaker now than Oaken. Why more demanding option gives lower results?

Velothi should give better results than Oaken for weak weaving players but of course not outperform classical metas.

jaws343 · May 2023

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

i think thats the point, its not supposed to just all the sudden grant you 5-10k more dps just wearing this mythic, but its supposed to make it more forgiving on weaving and have less focus on that

If you have same result with and without mythic than is not more forgiving - the point was to buff people who have lower skill and keep the same for good players. After nerfs now it's the same for first ones and lower dps for better players. So what's the point of existing of this item?

Oaken is no brainer and it's still strong option for many players and this mythic which needs more skill (you use 2 bars instead of one-bar potato build with Oaken) is weaker now than Oaken. Why more demanding option gives lower results?

Velothi should give better results than Oaken for weak weaving players but of course not outperform classical metas.

I expect my solo build DPS to increase with it though. A build that is far from Trial meta, but works great in solo and 4 man vet content. But, I also don't run trap on that build, and mostly run death dealers as a mythic, so the minor force works out for the build. Replacing death dealers for this, and having a bit more of a breather to miss light attacks in a rotation, and increase damage in AOE situations, is all a net positive for the build.

So, will this be meta for trial setups, no, not likely close. But, it is a nice boost for more mid tier setups and an absolute boost for lower tier ones. Which seems to be the intent right? To make light attack weaving more forgiving for less optimized players.

BaalMelqartu · May 2023

A lot of people were upset about the mythic and claiming it was way over powered.
About the same time I saw several streamers show how it is NOT over powered.
I thought oh good, some of the upset people will encounter this sort of thing and stop asking for it to be nerfed and I'll actually get to try it.
Then it was nerfed.
I still plan on playing around with it, but it was in the top three for me in regards to what I was most excited about from the expansion but now, it's already nerfed.

Also-Parsing is great for some things but once in a while it can be misleading because it often shows how you would perform in a fully optimized group, IE: it takes care of penetration for you, etc. I don't currently play in fully optimized groups either in vet dungeons or trials so I have learned that I need to consider things a little more carefully than I had previously realized.

YandereGirlfriend · May 2023

I don't think that nerfing this Mythic down to, "It's situationally 'okay' for optimized trial groups doing trash pulls but a DPS loss for everything else" is exactly what the game was crying out for in terms of a niche to be filled by a Mythic.

Nefas also mentioned that this change severely nerfs the Arcanist class itself assuming that said Arcanist actually wants to use their own class abilities and build their rotation around Fatecarver. So a fairly large double-fail and one that dampens interest for two of the marquee features of the expansion.

Give this Mythic 3300 Penetration and 10% unique Critical Damage and call it a day. It is toned-down from how it debuted but still actually useful for non-weavers and the new Arcanist class.

jaws343 · May 2023

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I don't think that nerfing this Mythic down to, "It's situationally 'okay' for optimized trial groups doing trash pulls but a DPS loss for everything else" is exactly what the game was crying out for in terms of a niche to be filled by a Mythic.

Nefas also mentioned that this change severely nerfs the Arcanist class itself assuming that said Arcanist actually wants to use their own class abilities and build their rotation around Fatecarver. So a fairly large double-fail and one that dampens interest for two of the marquee features of the expansion.

Give this Mythic 3300 Penetration and 10% unique Critical Damage and call it a day. It is toned-down from how it debuted but still actually useful for non-weavers and the new Arcanist class.

If a mythic is the only reason a class can compete as DPS, the problem isn't the adjustment of a mythic, the problem is the class.

Marto · May 2023

ZOS: We've created a new mythic item that gives players who are less skilled at weaving a nice damage boost!
Endgame players: But how will I, a player who is very skilled at weaving, benefit from this?

All mythic items are designed to be situational. All of them have considerable drawbacks. All of them are designed to fit a specific type of player. That's true whether we are talking about Thrassians and Kilt, or Oakensoul and Gaze of Sithis.

If you're not X type of player, then X mythic item is simply not for you.

Just because you have no use for it, doesn't mean it's useless.

bachpain · May 2023

Marto wrote: »

ZOS: We've created a new mythic item that gives players who are less skilled at weaving a nice damage boost!
Endgame players: But how will I, a player who is very skilled at weaving, benefit from this?

All mythic items are designed to be situational. All of them have considerable drawbacks. All of them are designed to fit a specific type of player. That's true whether we are talking about Thrassians and Kilt, or Oakensoul and Gaze of Sithis.

If you're not X type of player, then X mythic item is simply not for you.

Just because you have no use for it, doesn't mean it's useless.

You haven't been following the conversation.... Oakensoul was shown to perform on par without any Light attacks (if you add terrible weaving Oak would have won). A one bar HA build will blow it out of the water. The buffs on the mythic are not worth the slot it takes whether you have poor weaving or not. the 15% damage will not be made up for what you would have in a monster set for example giving you passive damage. It just isn't useful in its current form for anyone.

Marto · May 2023

bachpain wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

ZOS: We've created a new mythic item that gives players who are less skilled at weaving a nice damage boost!
Endgame players: But how will I, a player who is very skilled at weaving, benefit from this?

All mythic items are designed to be situational. All of them have considerable drawbacks. All of them are designed to fit a specific type of player. That's true whether we are talking about Thrassians and Kilt, or Oakensoul and Gaze of Sithis.

If you're not X type of player, then X mythic item is simply not for you.

Just because you have no use for it, doesn't mean it's useless.

You haven't been following the conversation.... Oakensoul was shown to perform on par without any Light attacks (if you add terrible weaving Oak would have won). A one bar HA build will blow it out of the water. The buffs on the mythic are not worth the slot it takes whether you have poor weaving or not. the 15% damage will not be made up for what you would have in a monster set for example giving you passive damage. It just isn't useful in its current form for anyone.

That doesn't sound bad at all. This mythic doesn't have the downside of disallowing the use of a second weapon.

So from what you're describing it would be, from most to least damage.

Standard 2-bar build with weaving
Oakensoul build with weaving
Velothi Ur-Mage 2-bar build
Oakensoul build without weaving
Velothi Ur-Mage 1-bar build
Standard 2-bar build without weaving
Standard 1-bar build with weaving
Standard 1-bar build without weaving

As long as a Velothi Ur-Mage 2-bar build is equal or close to a Standard 2-bar build with weaving, and a Velothi Ur-Mage 1-bar build is equal or close to a 1-bar build with weaving, the set is relevant.

It's fine for Oakensoul to be stronger than or equal than Velothi Ur-Mage. The choice between the two should be entirely up to the gameplay preferences and needs of each player.

If you really want to have a backbar, Velothi will be better. If you don't care about a backbar, Oakensoul is better.

chessalavakia_ESO · May 2023

Marto wrote: »

bachpain wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

ZOS: We've created a new mythic item that gives players who are less skilled at weaving a nice damage boost!
Endgame players: But how will I, a player who is very skilled at weaving, benefit from this?

All mythic items are designed to be situational. All of them have considerable drawbacks. All of them are designed to fit a specific type of player. That's true whether we are talking about Thrassians and Kilt, or Oakensoul and Gaze of Sithis.

If you're not X type of player, then X mythic item is simply not for you.

Just because you have no use for it, doesn't mean it's useless.

You haven't been following the conversation.... Oakensoul was shown to perform on par without any Light attacks (if you add terrible weaving Oak would have won). A one bar HA build will blow it out of the water. The buffs on the mythic are not worth the slot it takes whether you have poor weaving or not. the 15% damage will not be made up for what you would have in a monster set for example giving you passive damage. It just isn't useful in its current form for anyone.

That doesn't sound bad at all. This mythic doesn't have the downside of disallowing the use of a second weapon.

So from what you're describing it would be, from most to least damage.

Standard 2-bar build with weaving
Oakensoul build with weaving
Velothi Ur-Mage 2-bar build
Oakensoul build without weaving
Velothi Ur-Mage 1-bar build
Standard 2-bar build without weaving
Standard 1-bar build with weaving
Standard 1-bar build without weaving

As long as a Velothi Ur-Mage 2-bar build is equal or close to a Standard 2-bar build with weaving, and a Velothi Ur-Mage 1-bar build is equal or close to a 1-bar build with weaving, the set is relevant.

It's fine for Oakensoul to be stronger than or equal than Velothi Ur-Mage. The choice between the two should be entirely up to the gameplay preferences and needs of each player.

If you really want to have a backbar, Velothi will be better. If you don't care about a backbar, Oakensoul is better.

Keep in mind it also cripples heavy attacks and it isn't really bringing that much fun, style, or uniqueness to the table which will likely put a bit more of a damper on it's usage.

With only three mythics in a chapter update, I'd say at this point it's probably too niche.

festegios · May 2023

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

So ZOS basically reduced the power of this mythic to make it good-but-not-great in Trial trash pulls, but at the expense of making it way underpowered in everything else.

Good for pc; terrible for console due to not having access to gear swaps other than manually

ArchMikem · May 2023

So, I take it the PTS went like this. ZOS brought the new awesome puppy that is the Mythic home to us kids. You all noticed and claimed how over powered it is and the damage it'll do playing with it, so ZOS grabbed their shotgun and took it out back.

That the gist?

Ascarl · May 2023

IMHO this is the most worthlesss artifact right now.