Are Redguards just gonna be hopeless forever?

kojou · May 2023

Racial passives have such a minor impact that I would not put a lot of hope into getting them changed. If you like Redguard, then run a Redguard and don’t worry about it.

My Bosmer “magicka” DK does over 100k DPS and it has passives that offer no benefit to the build. Sure I could do a little more with a High Elf, but the character would not be nearly as cute doing it.

I would also like to see another review of the racial passives, but there are more impactful things that I would like them to balance first like food… the balance for food is all over the place and makes absolutely zero sense.

Ye_Olde_Crowe · May 2023

Woe me. I read "topless" instead of "hopeless".

usmcjdking · May 2023

One of Redguard's biggest issues is that its weapon cost reduction has been severely reduced in effectiveness due specifically to hybridization. Stam weapon skills are not dominating costs like they used to when the passive was created and as a result it's just not that good.

The best thing to do would be to give Redguard 129 Sp/Wp/817 crit or whatever that 4% number is damage and increase that snare resist to straight up 30% (15% is inperceptible, I've actually used Ranger's Gait in PVP and found it to be quite useful).

Roylund · May 2023

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Roylund wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Based on what's happened in the past, I don't think ZOS will ever mess with racial balance again. Even the tiniest tweak to racial balance almost immediately results in most people on these forums screaming about pay-to-win and demanding free race change tokens. It's just not worth the hassle when doing nothing only produces a few low engagement "buff Argonians" and "buff Redguards" threads per year.

That experience is also why there will never be class change tokens. There's no way ZOS wants to deal with those types of reactions every time they mess with class balance too.

I wasn't around the last time they did racial changes. Did they give away a bunch of race change tokens to everyone? I figured any changes they might've made would not have moved tier lists around as much (except I guess Redguards got majorly shafted).

At some point they made big changes (that completely changed what roles a couple of races were good for) and after people freaked out they gave everyone 3 race change tokens.

Then, a year or two later they made smaller changes that tweaked the ordering of the top few DPS races and the forums demanded tokens again, but ZOS wasn't as generous (probably because the changes were so small they didn't really affect anyone who didn't insist on playing the absolute highest parsing race for their build).

What roles swapped around? I thought the only major change was Redguards going from best in slot for stamdd to bottom tier amongst the stam races. Orcs, Nords, Argonians can still tank but maybe the order swapped around. Am I missing someone? Was Imperial a dd before?

Auzsi · May 2023

I know this comment was made days ago, and it's therefore basically thread necromancy due to that being about 20 years when converted to internet time, but this isn't why there are racial passives and bonuses in the game. The reason there are racial passives and bonuses in the game is because it's part of the Elder Scrolls gameplay. At least since Morrowind (I haven't played any Elder Scrolls games pre-Morrowind so I can't comment on those) the race you choose gives you some kind of perk or bonus. Zenimax adopted this for pretty much the same reason your character starts out as a prisoner in all of the old intro areas: it's an Elder Scrolls thing.

Yes you are right with everything. The problem is eso racials are nothing like they were in morrowind or any of the single player titles. They are not even racial perks just "stat tosses". They randomly assigned stats to each races they felt good. There are no immersion, no lore, just a meta. A system they use to pressure players to spend money in their in game shop. And they pretty much don't care about lore, that's why so many stuffs are missing which should be there (Like night vision on khajiit) or some races feels completely different they used to be (eso argonian vs morrowind argonian are like two different races). We can have racials then design them like the single player games did, if not we shouldn't have them at all. Eso passives are badly designed from both lore and gameplay perspective and should be removed. In my opinion it's also a pay to win feature at this point.

Worth to mention while it's a tes game it's also a multiplayer one. Stuffs which impact combat should be balanced against each other. Zos puts 0 effort into balancing racials.

Personally, from a purely game perspective, taking out the racial bonuses would be smart. ON THE OTHER HAND if they did there would be such an outcry over Zenimax abandoning Elder Scrolls Lore, don't even tell me it wouldn't happen because all of you know it would absolutely happen.

The community is divided when it comes to racials. There will be an outcry for a few weeks then players will accept it, and realise they can finally create a character without the need to worry about optimization. (play the way you want right?) Removing combat racials would benefit everyone playing this game on the long run. Flavor passives can stay, including resistances, but "stat tosses" should absolutely go.

Auzsi · May 2023

Faulgor wrote: »

They adjusted Argonians at some point by giving them 1k Stamina, so some changes to Redguards aren't out of the question.

I remember that. They gained a 1000 stamina at the cost of a massive nerf to their drinking passive, and still to this day they sports with 6% healing done, which is untouched since U21. Meanwhile Altmers recived 252 weapon damage for free. Never going to forget that and how they just ingored every possible feedback.

Roylund · May 2023

Auzsi wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

They adjusted Argonians at some point by giving them 1k Stamina, so some changes to Redguards aren't out of the question.

I remember that. They gained a 1000 stamina at the cost of a massive nerf to their drinking passive, and still to this day they sports with 6% healing done, which is untouched since U21. Meanwhile Altmers recived 252 weapon damage for free. Never going to forget that and how they just ingored every possible feedback.

The healing race is being outshone by almost all elves. Feels bad for Argonians.

techprince · May 2023

Regduards should have 6% stamina cost reduction, similar to breton.

emilyhyoyeon · May 2023

Roylund wrote: »

Auzsi wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

They adjusted Argonians at some point by giving them 1k Stamina, so some changes to Redguards aren't out of the question.

I remember that. They gained a 1000 stamina at the cost of a massive nerf to their drinking passive, and still to this day they sports with 6% healing done, which is untouched since U21. Meanwhile Altmers recived 252 weapon damage for free. Never going to forget that and how they just ingored every possible feedback.

The healing race is being outshone by almost all elves. Feels bad for Argonians.

Argonians have never been a healing race before ESO. They should be outshined in healing. Their racial traits from previous games are the following:

''intelligence, agility, and speed, any art involving the arcane, or involving thieving and sleight of hand, reduced Fatigue loss while swimming, +5 alchemy, +15 athletics, +5 illusion, +5 medium armor, +5 mysticism, +5 spear, +5 (light) armor, +5 alchemy, +10 athletics, +5 blade, +5 hand to hand, +5 illusion, +5 mysticism, +10 (lockpicking), +5 alteration, +5 (medium) armor, +5 pickpocketing, +5 restoration, +5 sneak, +10 lockpicking''

The +5 restoration bonus in TESV is the only thing, but it's clear what they are actually oriented towards.

Roylund · May 2023

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Roylund wrote: »

Auzsi wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

They adjusted Argonians at some point by giving them 1k Stamina, so some changes to Redguards aren't out of the question.

I remember that. They gained a 1000 stamina at the cost of a massive nerf to their drinking passive, and still to this day they sports with 6% healing done, which is untouched since U21. Meanwhile Altmers recived 252 weapon damage for free. Never going to forget that and how they just ingored every possible feedback.

The healing race is being outshone by almost all elves. Feels bad for Argonians.

Argonians have never been a healing race before ESO. They should be outshined in healing. Their racial traits from previous games are the following:

''intelligence, agility, and speed, any art involving the arcane, or involving thieving and sleight of hand, reduced Fatigue loss while swimming, +5 alchemy, +15 athletics, +5 illusion, +5 medium armor, +5 mysticism, +5 spear, +5 (light) armor, +5 alchemy, +10 athletics, +5 blade, +5 hand to hand, +5 illusion, +5 mysticism, +10 (lockpicking), +5 alteration, +5 (medium) armor, +5 pickpocketing, +5 restoration, +5 sneak, +10 lockpicking''

The +5 restoration bonus in TESV is the only thing, but it's clear what they are actually oriented towards.

Yeah I know but they were given a racial passive specifically tied to healing. I would expect that would make them the best healers but it doesn't. What's the point of giving them a passive that points them towards being healers if they're still going to underperform in that role? It's not like they make great DPS or tanks.

Drako_Ei · May 2023

Make racial passives more RP oriented.

Sprint faster, Swim faster, Stealth and pickpocket better, etc.

Remove all weapon damage / max stats / recovery / resists from them

There.... fixed and whoever disagree is probabily playing elf or orc

StarOfElyon · May 2023

Drako_Ei wrote: »

Make racial passives more RP oriented.

Sprint faster, Swim faster, Stealth and pickpocket better, etc.

Remove all weapon damage / max stats / recovery / resists from them

There.... fixed and whoever disagree is probabily playing elf or orc

I like them having different stats. The Redguards just have really bad stats.