Tbh. I don't even intend to farm it as it is guaranteed to receive a fat nerf - just like every other op mythic in the past with Oakensoul being prime example.

Personally, I have no clue how to make this mythic balanced. They would have to nerf it way too much for it not to be game breaking in PvP, while it would be useless in PvE. I guess the best way to change it would be simply for the mythic to only provide bonus vs mobs and not players. Otherwise you will endup with crit stacking ganking builds - mostly NB vamps, but I can see it being also way too strong on DKs and maybe even Templars & Wardens. Oh and with this set and with detection potions supposedly having 100m detection range, Snipe builds will gonna return for sure.

Afterip wrote: »

4968 Offensive Penetration its ignore 7.5% mitigation and for me its not so huge bonus even with 15% crit damage, becouse -99% dmg with LA and HA very stronn minus. Mythic item is fine, dont touch them, but I am more afraid of another mythical item, a -50% incoming damage from hits and absorbing the stamina of the user.

Agreed the "double-block" mythic will be by far the most annoying.

Mythic is fine - it raises the floor, but not ceiling. Very good players will benefit more from other sets, so it won't be OP in their hands and at the same time, people who cannot (or don't want) weave perfectly will have nice boost. It's like Oaken, but with different approach. For me one-bar builds are too simple and boring, but this option sounds much better for me and I will test it.

Most complains are from people who even didn't test it.

I remember how much panic was, when ZOS buffed Titanic Cleave (DSA weapon set) with" Increases the direct damage Cleave deals by 1550 for each enemy in its cone". Everyone was like "It will melt huge groups, it will be so unbalanced and OP!!!!11111oneoneone". Years later set still exist in this form and it's not even popular.

I made this change, if the problem is only NB gankers and vampire bombers.



What did you guys think of this solution? Are there any negative implications?

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

For PvP purposes Malacath is a good comparison.

Malacath: +16% damage done. -50% crit damage.

• At a 30% crit rate (typical in pvp) that 50% crit damage would account for about 12% of the total damage output (after crit mitigation, etc.).
• So it's +16% damage minus 12% damage = 4% damage gained

Velothi:

• 5k pen = 7.5% damage assuming no pen cap
• 15% crit dmg = ~5% DPS assuming a 30% crit rate
• 7.5 + 5 = 12.5% DPS minus 10-12% DPS from losing light-attack damage = 0 - 2.5% damage gained.

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me. I may be singing a different tune after getting sniped a few times XD

Crunching numbers like this doesn't really work in PvP like this though. At the end of the day, overall DPS overtime doesn't matter nearly as much as potential dps. The potential output of this amulet on a ganker is what's scary.

I see some people talking about reaching crit cap already - but that's missing the fact that going over crit cap in PvP is beneficial since you'll then be negating the enemy's crit resists. The set also doesn't debuff heavy attack damage - meaning you can just add in a heavy attack weave at the beginning of the gank.

The set will be rampant in Cyrodiil and IC on gankers, just as OG Oakensoul was. Do we need more damage in the meta? Yes, but I'd rather the damage not be in the form of 1 tap gank specs.

It does reduce heavy attack damage by 99%...

"(1 item) Adds 4968 Offensive Penetration, Increase your damage done to monsters by 15%, Critical Damage by 15%, and reduce your Light and Heavy Attack damage by 99%."

Honestly, this mythic is fine. The pen is nice and the crit damage is nice, and both make the item still useful in PVP. The damage done makes it really decent in PVE, alongside the other things. And the light and heavy attack reduction is impactful in both environments. Light attack weaving especially makes up a decent portion of a players' burst combo.

A 'doh on my part. I still think the set will have a pretty big use-case in ganking. Important to not forget that Light Attack damage was capped recently - so yes you'll be missing a bit of that in a gank combo but I still think the unnamed crit damage buff will be more than enough to make up for it.

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

For PvP purposes Malacath is a good comparison.

Malacath: +16% damage done. -50% crit damage.

• At a 30% crit rate (typical in pvp) that 50% crit damage would account for about 12% of the total damage output (after crit mitigation, etc.).
• So it's +16% damage minus 12% damage = 4% damage gained

Velothi:

• 5k pen = 7.5% damage assuming no pen cap
• 15% crit dmg = ~5% DPS assuming a 30% crit rate
• 7.5 + 5 = 12.5% DPS minus 10-12% DPS from losing light-attack damage = 0 - 2.5% damage gained.

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me. I may be singing a different tune after getting sniped a few times XD

Crunching numbers like this doesn't really work in PvP like this though. At the end of the day, overall DPS overtime doesn't matter nearly as much as potential dps. The potential output of this amulet on a ganker is what's scary.

I see some people talking about reaching crit cap already - but that's missing the fact that going over crit cap in PvP is beneficial since you'll then be negating the enemy's crit resists. The set also doesn't debuff heavy attack damage - meaning you can just add in a heavy attack weave at the beginning of the gank.

The set will be rampant in Cyrodiil and IC on gankers, just as OG Oakensoul was. Do we need more damage in the meta? Yes, but I'd rather the damage not be in the form of 1 tap gank specs.

It does reduce heavy attack damage by 99%...

"(1 item) Adds 4968 Offensive Penetration, Increase your damage done to monsters by 15%, Critical Damage by 15%, and reduce your Light and Heavy Attack damage by 99%."

Honestly, this mythic is fine. The pen is nice and the crit damage is nice, and both make the item still useful in PVP. The damage done makes it really decent in PVE, alongside the other things. And the light and heavy attack reduction is impactful in both environments. Light attack weaving especially makes up a decent portion of a players' burst combo.

A 'doh on my part. I still think the set will have a pretty big use-case in ganking. Important to not forget that Light Attack damage was capped recently - so yes you'll be missing a bit of that in a gank combo but I still think the unnamed crit damage buff will be more than enough to make up for it.

Combine this with Balorgh and Night Mother's Gaze, and people will be freaking naked out there.

DOA

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

the penetration is cut down and the crit damage is turned into minor force

sounds better at least

"Better"???? They killed it. It's barely more pen than a base game monster set ONE piece bonus, and minor force? Come on. There's at least 5 sources of that buff already.
Idk how zos defines "monsters" but that 15% damage better hit pretty dang hard to make up for nuking the light and heavy attacks 99%.

I don't expect this to be a strong meta set, it is literally a secondary option for those who don't want to weave, it should fall behind a standard LA weaving build.

Mr_Jord_Joe wrote: »

I made this change, if the problem is only NB gankers and vampire bombers.



What did you guys think of this solution? Are there any negative implications?

No because that sets a dangerous precedent. It will spread like a cancer to other sets and will lead to other akward constraints being placed on 'innocent bystanders'.

"Velothi Ur-Mage’s Amulet:
Reduced the amount of Offensive Penetration this set grants to 1650, down from 4968. 
This set now grants Minor Force while worn, rather than increasing your Critical Damage done by a unique 15%."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633335/pts-patch-notes-v9-0-3#:~:text=Velothi Ur-Mage’s,a unique 15%.

That's not bad. I can live with that. Up to about 2.5k pen would have been ok with me.

Well duh. They have to make it overpowered to be able to reduce it to the right levels of damage etc. like they have done for 9 years now

Well I would say the prayer of the thread-poster here was heard by ZOS, there you have your nerf.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Oh no, people might actually die once in a while in PvP, the horror, the horror.

Hit the nail on the head precisely!

People irrationally fear anything that adds damage and that threatens this awful tank meta.

Players build tanky for the same reason a nightblade cloaks the minute someone looks in their direction. Watch them cry when cloak gets denied. Guess what will happen the minute players stop building tanky? They will die. The solution is not to add more unbalanced items to the game. Adding unbalanced items to the game is why players are so hard to kill in the first place.

But if this cracked item is what people want? Fine. As long as we leave the detection pot radius at 100 meters and extend the duration. I'll accept that compromise.