The excuses for no pvp content are getting old

Jaraal · April 2023

Tandor wrote: »

There's a new class coming imminently which should offer something different for PvPers as well as PvEers. What is the feedback on the PTS about the class from a PvP perspective?

The general feedback so far is that Arcanists are best suited to be a support class, and that their damage is underwhelming. Seems rather odd considering that more people would be motivated to buy a chapter if it means having access to an overpowered class. But there's still several weeks for them to tweak the damage.

KiltMaster · April 2023

that's not content and the OP literally laid out what content they'd like to see

Tandor · April 2023

Jaraal wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

There's a new class coming imminently which should offer something different for PvPers as well as PvEers. What is the feedback on the PTS about the class from a PvP perspective?

The general feedback so far is that Arcanists are best suited to be a support class, and that their damage is underwhelming. Seems rather odd considering that more people would be motivated to buy a chapter if it means having access to an overpowered class. But there's still several weeks for them to tweak the damage.

Thanks for the constructive and informative reply!

StarOfElyon · April 2023

Urvoth wrote: »

In every interview and livestream since 2019, ZOS has given the same few lines of excuses as to why they can’t add new pvp content, “we want to fix performance first,” “new content would only make the issues worse,” etc., but it’s been 4 years and the rhetoric isn’t working anymore. While initially believable, now it just comes across as the devs wanting to shove pvp into a corner and forget about it. BGs don’t really have performance issues so why not add content to them at least? Instead, ZOS has periodically stripped BGs down more and more until now they’re a shadow of what they used to be. Here’s some things ZOS could’ve added that would have minimal to 0 impact on performance if they cared about pvp:
1) New BG maps
2) Periodic updates to the Cyro/IC map (think removing a town to put a crater there from a meteor, etc.)
3) Battlepass with reward track for skins, titles, etc.
4) Lobby system so friends/guilds/event hosts could setup private BG matches
5) Group duels
6) 2 Team BGs (think 6v6 with obj vs 4v4v4)
7) BG items added to the housing editor (spawn points, flags, chaos ball, etc., so people could make custom arenas in their house)
8) 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, arenas
9) Ranked gameplay or better leaderboards in general
10) FFA open world “faction” that can fight everyone not in their own group (call them outlaws, marauders, etc.)

In general, instanced pvp works perfectly fine so it’s ridiculous that it has been ignored with the “performance” excuse.

Personally, I think PvP in general is just awful right now. I couldn't care less about arenas and bells and whistles when the game is so dumbed down due to proc sets that it feels more a game of sets vs sets than it is player vs player. I am by far driven away from the game because of the busted sets that keep getting introduced than I am because of all that other junk. Look at pvp fights from about 5 years ago, it was nowhere near this braindead. There was annoying things sure but nothing as maddening as the overloaded proc sets, especially since they got these guaranteed conditions.

I would like it if cyrodil did get split up like IC is split up because I think that might help performance. But that's secondary to me.

StarOfElyon · April 2023

Somber97866 wrote: »

They just made you your own special pvp class in the arcanist and your gonna grip about no pvp content? Sheesh what do you pvp'ers want? Really !

Yeah really. A new class is pvp content too.

Amottica · April 2023

Some of the ideas presented are good like new maps for BGs and XvX instead of the 4v4v4 we have now. Some are ok but the FFA faction in Cyrodiil would not be good. FFA in a BG on the other hand, sure, but only if Zenimax would lock it to its own queue that did not rely on random queues to fill.

But the reason, Zenimax has not done any of this for the past few years is that PvP is not the focus of ESO and is not a direct revenue driver. Sure, some pure PvP players buy items from the crown store and pay for access to DLCs to get gear but PvP itself has nothing that drives revenue directly. Then there is Zenimax can see how many players are pure PvP players vs PvE players that do some or even a lot of PvP.

Designing a new map for BGs every couple of years or adjusting BGs to an XvX model is very feasible. So like it or not, it is clear Zenimax considered PvP to be a low priority.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 2023

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

What a kind of new pvp content you want to see? New classes and new sets it is a new pvp content

New classes and sets are not new PvP content, they're just new content. PvE gets new dungeons almost every patch - new dungeons are explicitly not PvP content.

New PvP content would be the inverse - content that is explicitly PvP content. Things like new BG maps, changes to Cyrodiil or IC, or a new PvP enabled area.

Urvoth · April 2023

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

What a kind of new pvp content you want to see? New classes and new sets it is a new pvp content

New classes and sets are not new PvP content, they're just new content. PvE gets new dungeons almost every patch - new dungeons are explicitly not PvP content.

New PvP content would be the inverse - content that is explicitly PvP content. Things like new BG maps, changes to Cyrodiil or IC, or a new PvP enabled area.

Exactly, new classes and sets are cool but they're just content for everyone. The arcanist will add some new flavors to PvP but at the end of the day, everyone is still going to be doing the same pvp modes on the same pvp maps that they've been playing for years. We need new, PvP-specific content like new maps, gamemodes, or reward structures.

AvalonRanger · April 2023

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

PvP is an addon at best at this point. Don't expect it to ever get much attention thankfully.

Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments.

Remember this?

"Please stop with the "I hate PvP so it's good ZOS isn't supporting it" comments."

I don't hate PVP, but I hate every ESO combat game design. So I hate "ESO PVP" contents also.
It's just too much old style action game for me. ESO combat is really painful for me...

I need only story contents for ESO as Elder Scrolls fan. ESO combat is just "option".

jle30303 · April 2023

"enemy armies of hundreds"?

PVP content sn't new zones, it's other players.

Here's the rub: Nobody likes being "farmed". Nobody likes being killed in one hit. Nobody likes being blatted before they even know the enemy's there, and then sent back to a base that's so far away it takes twenty minutes to get back *to* the fight.

Nobody likes not being able to harm their enemy, even if they can see them - or run fast enough to catch them, which is also a major issue with on-screen moving speed differences between players, when some players can literally run rings around others and score lots of melee hits and by the time you've even turned round they're gone, and have run round behind you again.

Low rank players, with low skill and lesser quality gear, need to be able to actually score visibly damaging hits on ALL players, including the best. If ten low-skill face one high-skill, the ten should ALWAYS win.

Winning siege battles and keeps should be a matter of strategy - striking where the enemy is not, taking command of the place before the enemy can arrive to reinforce - but that needs there to be *enough* enemy that they can decide (and players need to organise themselves into a position to actually make decisions) "send X number of players there to fight off the attackers, we need Y more players for an attack elsewhere". The latter is a player-led decision, not a game-led decision, but requires a critical mass of players to be *actively present* in Cyrodiil, that there are enough around to actually hear and obey the organisation.

For single player PVP in the narrower confines of Imperial City, you also need a critical mass of players - you don't really get what people call "ball groups" so much in the same way, but you still have bombers and gankers that can one-shot others. The one-shot needs to be removed, as does the 1%-or-less shot. Like there should be a minimum and a maximum amount or possibly even percentage of another player's health, regardless of armour and shields, that a properly landed hit will actually do, and healing - both self and group - needs to be nerfed across the board. Again, if ten face one in Imperial City, ten should win.

Stealth also needs to be nerfed. There should be no possibility to disappear from full visibility without literally dodging behind physical cover.

Even wanting server architecture to be able to handle hundreds of players at a time, so that the zones are never "so full that a player cannot get in", is irrelevant when there are so few actual players in PVP zones that some zones can be on one or two bars even at peak hours.

And if there are not enough players in current PVP zones, then how is it ever worthwhile to make new ones? New Battleground layouts, as instanced to small numbers of players doing short-term PVP, are probably the only viable way.

Want to improve PVP? (1) Zenimax has to reduce the difference between good and bad individual players. (2) Players, themselves, have to ACTUALLY PVP in such numbers that it is worthwhile re-increasing the server cap in Cyrodiil - even if Zenimax improve the server infrastructure enough that the servers are permanently capable of handling 400 v 400 v 400, it's of no use if even peak-times end up with less than 70 of each faction in the zone even at peak hours, and literally coming down often to single figures in off-hours (and most of those are PVE players doing delves, dolmens and skyshards, and never going near keeps. And they're usually so far apart that the chances of actually *meeting* a player of an enemy faction at a delve, dolmen or skyshard, and preventing them completing their objective there, is pretty low: indeed most players going for those are the PVE-type of players, and completely ignore each other politely rather than fight.

The thing about PVP is that players get killed. People "lose". And there has to be some motive, OTHER than "get better and become a winner", because doing that requires others to be present to be the people who lose to the ones who have done so, for people to want to continue PVPing even when they "lose" all the time. Punish people for losing all the time? They won't stay and get better, they'll quit, and the arena becomes the province of an increasingly small number of hardcore, locked in a death spiral as any given professional either gets bored, or finds themselves on the losing end because all the people worse than them have quit and they're now the ones at the bottom of the heap.

Casuals have to be able to come in and WIN sometimes.

VaranisArano · April 2023

jle30303 wrote: »

Low rank players, with low skill and lesser quality gear, need to be able to actually score visibly damaging hits on ALL players, including the best. If ten low-skill face one high-skill, the ten should ALWAYS win.

The ten ought to win IF they actually fight as a 1v10.

But part of being a new, inexperienced player is that they frequently don't. They don't stick together. Some of them get overconfident and race ahead, some of them get scared and hang back, and the solo high skill player is constantly running. So the result is that the one high-skill player is actually fighting a string of 1v2, 1v1, 1v3 fights that are emmiently winnable for a player of their skill.

My experience is that most 1vXers died in short order once my guild rolled up to their tower. Our guild leader could say "just light attack them to death" and they would die because when 12 players who stick together all get their light attacks on target, its really hard to run away and survive.

If you're new and inexperienced at PvP and want to feel effective, the best thing you can do is stick close to your groupmates and attack the same target. There really is strength in numbers...but you have to fight as a group.

StaticWave · April 2023

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

No big secret, but pvp is only a liability to Zos, they can't monetize it so why bother.

Zos would only be relieved if Cyro would be completely empty.

People who only PvP also wants to spend money for cosmetics, hence why free to play PvP only games like Valorant and CS GO exist.

I'm a PvPer, as in I spent 90% of my 12k hours of ESO doing PvP related stuff, and I've personally spent over $1200 in this game from buying chapters, subscribing to ESO+, and buying crowns for cosmetics. I have PvP friends who've spent 5x what I did.

Saying that PvP can't be monetize is a cop-out defense for the lack of content.

licenturion · April 2023

As someone who does mainly PVE (questing, trading, dungeons, crafting etc) for a few years I must say that jle30303 has a valid point.

This game would have way more PVP players, including myself, if there was some way of SBMM (skill based matchmaking)

I actually do my daily battleground every day and most of the time win on first try but it never feels really good/fun because there usually is one or two players that have 38 kills and all the other 10 players have 4. Usually, the team with the most kills loses because they refuse to play the objective but are there just to mass murder people doing their daily.

This type of matchmaking makes people feel that they can't really do much to win and can't do much to learn in this environment. So why even bother to go to Cyrodill or IC when those maps are literally groups of those type of players. There is no point to it. Also, to be competitive in this environment you need to constantly research stuff outside of the game and min/max everything instead of learning organically through experience.

If there was matchmaking that takes build and K/D/A into consideration I would probably join the PVP aspect of the game as well because the framework to have fun is there. Also more players = more content in to long run.

Also I can't believe some people want a battlepass.

Are base game, chapter upgrades, DLC upgrades, ESO+, crown store, loot boxes, gems, endeavour and daily logins not enough monetization and engagement mechanics already?

FangOfTheTwoMoons · April 2023

jle30303 wrote: »

PVP content isn't new zones, it's other players.

PVE content isn't new Dungeons or Trials. It's new overland and story.

Yeah that sounds ridiculous right?

jle30303 wrote: »

Here's the rub: Nobody likes being "farmed". Nobody likes being killed in one hit. Nobody likes being blatted before they even know the enemy's there, and then sent back to a base that's so far away it takes twenty minutes to get back *to* the fight.

Nobody likes not being able to harm their enemy, even if they can see them - or run fast enough to catch them, which is also a major issue with on-screen moving speed differences between players, when some players can literally run rings around others and score lots of melee hits and by the time you've even turned round they're gone, and have run round behind you again.

Low rank players, with low skill and lesser quality gear, need to be able to actually score visibly damaging hits on ALL players, including the best. If ten low-skill face one high-skill, the ten should ALWAYS win.

In every aspect of the game, players need to improve their skill to progress. I'm not sure what you're advocating here? Information to improve one's gameplay in PVP are out there, if people want to play PVP at a higher level they should look things up or ask for advice.

Would you go into a Vet Trial or a Vet DLC Dungeon without looking up a guide? It's the same idea.

jle30303 wrote: »

Stealth also needs to be nerfed. There should be no possibility to disappear from full visibility without literally dodging behind physical cover.

Skills that remove stealth and detect pots exist.

jle30303 wrote: »

And if there are not enough players in current PVP zones, then how is it ever worthwhile to make new ones? New Battleground layouts, as instanced to small numbers of players doing short-term PVP, are probably the only viable way.

This problem is created by the lack of PVP content in general. If PVP wasn't left out to dry for over 4 and a half years the playerbase would not have declined the way it did. We all know why it happened.

Overhauls to the current openworld and BGs, along with rewards that are worth it will absolutely bring more players in. During MYM plenty of people go into PVP. There just has to be an incentive.

Serpari · April 2023

Backing up what @licenturion said above, skill-based matchmaking in Cyrodiil would alleviate the slow but sure bleed of players it suffers from. Never been a fan of PVP, but I'd be willing to give Cyrodiil a try because there's a lot of story there I want to complete, as Oblivion was my favorite TES growing up. But I don't because I know I'd get destroyed as soon as I step into Bruma, and I doubt anyone's going to care if I go, "Oh, just here for quests and Skyshards."

Xandreia_ · April 2023

Somber97866 wrote: »

They just made you your own special pvp class in the arcanist and your gonna grip about no pvp content? Sheesh what do you pvp'ers want? Really !

if arcanist is a PVP class then zos really do not understand what PVP'ers want

Xandreia_ · April 2023

even if they changed up the visuals of the map with every chapter id be happy, once a year give us a new look.
Take away the hammer, destructible bridges and mile gates they serve no strategic value (people can still pass though other bridges and walk ways) it just slows the flow of gameplay.
stop letting sets buff siege, its already over powered!

PVP'ers dont ask for alot! all we want is to stay in our little PVP bubbles and enjoy the time we put into this game. imagine if questers and other PVE peoples had the same issues as we do. people would riot

Xandreia_ · April 2023

Serpari wrote: »

skill-based matchmaking in Cyrodiil would alleviate the slow but sure bleed of players it suffers from

ABSOLUTELY NOT!! NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

VaranisArano · April 2023

Serpari wrote: »

Backing up what licenturion said above, skill-based matchmaking in Cyrodiil would alleviate the slow but sure bleed of players it suffers from. Never been a fan of PVP, but I'd be willing to give Cyrodiil a try because there's a lot of story there I want to complete, as Oblivion was my favorite TES growing up. But I don't because I know I'd get destroyed as soon as I step into Bruma, and I doubt anyone's going to care if I go, "Oh, just here for quests and Skyshards."

There's no real way to do skill-based matchmaking in Cyrodiil. It's a vast, vast zone, and matchmaking would really go against the sprawling, multi-front Alliance war brawl that it's designed for.

I'll offer some suggestions because I used to be terrified of Cyrodiil:

You can go by yourself. A stealthy build or a tank build is probably the easiest for new players, IMO. You probably will die. Everyone dies in PVP, especially the PVPers. All you have to do is be willing to accept that it will take more tries to achieve your goals than it would in PVE, rez up and try again. Or try another day. Cyrodiil is better as a marathon than a sprint.

You can go as a group. When you're new to PVP, I think its a lot more fun and easier to feel effective when you're in a group. It'll probably be easier to get together a group of friends or guildmates during the Whitestrake's Mayhem events. One of my social guilds used to run IC groups during those events. It might be worth asking around if there are other fellow PVE players who're interested in exploring, questing, fighting, and probably dying in Cyrodiil together.

What would actually cure Cyrodiil from its slow bleed would be performance fixes that support the sprawling, multi-front Alliance War brawl its designed for.

thedocbwarren · April 2023

VaranisArano wrote: »

Serpari wrote: »

...

What would actually cure Cyrodiil from its slow bleed would be performance fixes that support the sprawling, multi-front Alliance War brawl its designed for.

Depends on why people play in the first place (IMHO.) Me, for instance, don't play PvP, nor do I join any games that have it. I came here for Elder Scrolls, not PvP. I don't like PvP, otherwise I'd play Fortnight or some such. I have no idea what the split of players for that is. It could be the PvP is slowing due to interest in general.

Also, assuming it's true PvP is slowing (which I also have no idea.)

Just 2 cents though, I have no idea.

Xandreia_ · April 2023

thedocbwarren wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Serpari wrote: »

...

What would actually cure Cyrodiil from its slow bleed would be performance fixes that support the sprawling, multi-front Alliance War brawl its designed for.

Depends on why people play in the first place (IMHO.) Me, for instance, don't play PvP, nor do I join any games that have it. I came here for Elder Scrolls, not PvP. I don't like PvP, otherwise I'd play Fortnight or some such. I have no idea what the split of players for that is. It could be the PvP is slowing due to interest in general.

Also, assuming it's true PvP is slowing (which I also have no idea.)

Just 2 cents though, I have no idea.

every time i see a comment like this, i cry a little inside...

Photosniper89 · April 2023

Context - been playing since beta. 4090 GPU and 13th gen CPU w/ DDR5 (no lag isn't a pc issue)

One of my biggest gripes with PvP hasn't been the performance, lack of content in 5+ years, or the slow bleed of removing things to try to solve "performance", it's the lack of communication from ZOS regarding the frustration from the PvP community.

We see a thread every 1-2 years that says something along the lines of, "We are aware we have been lacking in our communication... we are going to fix that." and then hear nothing for another 1-2 years. They even went as far to say they will be trying new things, brining new content to keep PvP fresh while they go through the server refresh process, and what have they done in Cyro - I can't think of anything. BG's hardly has performance issues and gets new content so why make a big post geared towards the PvP community and then only hit BGs.

We have been dealing with the same desyncs from leaps, meteors, runes, ect. for multiple years now - how has this not been resolved or even acknowledged as a known issue?! As a software developer myself it's infuriating to think about what could be going on behind the scenes right now. Clearly, the developers/team at ZOS are aware of these issues and are making an intentional decision to ignore the frustration from the community. (Just look at the streams and the amount of people who get banned/deleted posts that have anything to do with PvP or how all the posts on the forums that have anything even remotely negative to say about PvP get locked/deleted almost instantly - shocked this thread is still open to be honest)

What happened with the code rewrite - is that even still a thing or did management make the decision to pull the plug on that?
I know a lot of us were hanging on for dear life that this would be the final fix that would make cyro fun again.

I challenge ZOS to address these tough conversations head on. Not to have a debate but to own up to the issues we have been talking about for 5 years now, talk about what they have done behind the scenes, and where they are at right now. No, I am not talking about the server refresh. Anyone that plays cyro regularly knows full and well that the server refresh only "fixes" the lag for about a month or two. I'd argue the lag I experience this past weekend was some of the worst I have experienced since beta (yes, I have been playing since beta and have thousands of hours logged in this game).

Look outside and see what other studios are doing to handle similar negative issues surrounding their game. Look at what 343i did with Halo Infinite. They brought Joseph Staten on and started doing monthly hour + long videos/posts where they addressed the frustration head on. They went into depth on how they categorized priorities internal, why they addressed some things first (like desyncs) but paused on some of the more complex changes. They also went into detail on their troubleshooting process for the issues, how they investigated everything, and I have to say as someone who was soooo hyped for the launch of Halo and immediately disappointed it was so damn refreshing to see a studio pull back the curtain and just be raw and honest with their player base. People understand that developers are humans, they can only do so much, they have families too, and things take time - sometime alot more time than we are willing to wait for - and that is okay.

The lack of communication around PvP has been going on for 5+ years - it's time to stop hiding behind vague posts and empty promises and be honest and open with the community.

What you currently see is the PvP community craving, practically begging ZOS, to feed us information. Why, because we are so damn passionate about this game. I've left ESO multiple times and I always come back after a few months. There is NO other MMO that has a PvP experience like ESO - good and bad. When cyro works.. it's the most fun I have ever had - HANDS DOWN. It's a complex game, with so many moving parts, and out dated code. We can understand and appreciate that.

Just please, @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert please take some time to think about having an open and honest conversation with the PvP community - we truly want to hear from you.

Serpari · April 2023

VaranisArano wrote: »

Serpari wrote: »

Backing up what licenturion said above, skill-based matchmaking in Cyrodiil would alleviate the slow but sure bleed of players it suffers from. Never been a fan of PVP, but I'd be willing to give Cyrodiil a try because there's a lot of story there I want to complete, as Oblivion was my favorite TES growing up. But I don't because I know I'd get destroyed as soon as I step into Bruma, and I doubt anyone's going to care if I go, "Oh, just here for quests and Skyshards."

There's no real way to do skill-based matchmaking in Cyrodiil. It's a vast, vast zone, and matchmaking would really go against the sprawling, multi-front Alliance war brawl that it's designed for.

I'll offer some suggestions because I used to be terrified of Cyrodiil:

You can go by yourself. A stealthy build or a tank build is probably the easiest for new players, IMO. You probably will die. Everyone dies in PVP, especially the PVPers. All you have to do is be willing to accept that it will take more tries to achieve your goals than it would in PVE, rez up and try again. Or try another day. Cyrodiil is better as a marathon than a sprint.

You can go as a group. When you're new to PVP, I think its a lot more fun and easier to feel effective when you're in a group. It'll probably be easier to get together a group of friends or guildmates during the Whitestrake's Mayhem events. One of my social guilds used to run IC groups during those events. It might be worth asking around if there are other fellow PVE players who're interested in exploring, questing, fighting, and probably dying in Cyrodiil together.

What would actually cure Cyrodiil from its slow bleed would be performance fixes that support the sprawling, multi-front Alliance War brawl its designed for.

Realized in my above quote I made it seem like I haven't been to Cyrodiil. I have, actually. And I've already done all these things. I don't mind dying, tbqh. It's rezzing so far from where I was at, losing progress, that frustrates me the most. Honestly, given the answers and attitudes here, I don't think Cyrodiil in its current state is for me. It's fine. There's other content. I do hope the devs listen to PVPs sooner rather than later, though. Four years is a long time.

Photosniper89 · April 2023

Serpari wrote: »

Realized in my above quote I made it seem like I haven't been to Cyrodiil. I have, actually. And I've already done all these things. I don't mind dying, tbqh. It's rezzing so far from where I was at, losing progress, that frustrates me the most. Honestly, given the answers and attitudes here, I don't think Cyrodiil in its current state is for me. It's fine. There's other content. I do hope the devs listen to PVPs sooner rather than later, though. Four years is a long time.

If you ever change your mind swing by DC in gray host. DC is really welcoming and just listen to zone chat. They will help point you to where to go and you can just jump into the fight - heal, tank, siege, dps, whatever suits your style.

thedocbwarren · April 2023

Xandreia_ wrote: »

thedocbwarren wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Serpari wrote: »

...

What would actually cure Cyrodiil from its slow bleed would be performance fixes that support the sprawling, multi-front Alliance War brawl its designed for.

Depends on why people play in the first place (IMHO.) Me, for instance, don't play PvP, nor do I join any games that have it. I came here for Elder Scrolls, not PvP. I don't like PvP, otherwise I'd play Fortnight or some such. I have no idea what the split of players for that is. It could be the PvP is slowing due to interest in general.

Also, assuming it's true PvP is slowing (which I also have no idea.)

Just 2 cents though, I have no idea.

every time i see a comment like this, i cry a little inside...

Sorry

End of the day I really just love ES and I joined because I've played so many of them. ESO felt like such a great game that showcased so many regions. I love this game and play daily. I've not been drawn to the PvP concept so it's just me. I don't know if the sentiment has changed for these types of games. I get the sense...maybe?

Rogue_WolfESO · April 2023

Separate servers for pvp gameplay would be amazing QOL improvement, but that will never happen. Easy to make a set perform differently on separate servers as well, without completely ruining said set for pve use.

Photosniper89 · April 2023

Rogue_WolfESO wrote: »

Separate servers for pvp gameplay would be amazing QOL improvement, but that will never happen. Easy to make a set perform differently on separate servers as well, without completely ruining said set for pve use.

I wish they would make sets that perform one way in PvE and another in PvP so there can be a truly differently set of results based on what you're doing but if I recall Rich already shot this down.

Lumsdenml · April 2023

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

No big secret, but pvp is only a liability to Zos, they can't monetize it so why bother.

Zos would only be relieved if Cyro would be completely empty.

I disagree.... I know more than a few PVPers will roll a new character, don't want to take the time to lvl skills and will buy skill lines through the crown store to get to their end build faster.

Lumsdenml · April 2023

Urvoth wrote: »

3) Battlepass with reward track for skins, titles, etc.

Oh... oh please no... no no no no no.....

FangOfTheTwoMoons · April 2023

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

3) Battlepass with reward track for skins, titles, etc.

Oh... oh please no... no no no no no.....

If handled correctly it wouldn't be bad. FF14 has something similar and its fine.