Tank meta will get much worse with this mythic

jaws343 · April 2023

Melzo wrote: »

I'll explain how the mythic works.

When you are hit, you spend 1500 stamina and reduce by 50 percent. If I hit you 2 times per second, then you spend 3000 stamina and reduce two attacks by 50 percent, but if you are hit by 4 attacks per second, then the mythic will only work for two attacks, but the rest will go through you in full damage. In a 1 vs 1 battle, this is the strongest mythic. In a battle in a mass battle, you need to test. I tested in a duel and you are really armored. Weakness only in dot damage. The same arcanist deals dot damage due to the beam and ultimate. And they can kill you. Or the templar beam also pierces. But NB will cry. I am sure about that.

Wait, now I am confused based on the tooltip.

From the way it reads, as long as you are above 33% stam, you will always only take 50% damage, of all types.

Meaning you can sit there with a dot on you, lose 0 stam, and take 50% less damage.

It also should mean that, if you take 4 hits in 1 second. Two of those hits eat your stamina. But, as long as you are above 33% stam, all 4 hits should only do 50% damage to you.

That is how the set reads, if you are above 33% stam, you take 50% less damage. It doesn't specify the damage type that you mitigate, just the damage type that eats stamina.

So if it is working otherwise, and you are taking full damage from direct damage hits that don't eat your stam above 33%, then it is either bugged, or the tooltip is wrong or poorly worded.

Melzo · April 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

I'll explain how the mythic works.

When you are hit, you spend 1500 stamina and reduce by 50 percent. If I hit you 2 times per second, then you spend 3000 stamina and reduce two attacks by 50 percent, but if you are hit by 4 attacks per second, then the mythic will only work for two attacks, but the rest will go through you in full damage. In a 1 vs 1 battle, this is the strongest mythic. In a battle in a mass battle, you need to test. I tested in a duel and you are really armored. Weakness only in dot damage. The same arcanist deals dot damage due to the beam and ultimate. And they can kill you. Or the templar beam also pierces. But NB will cry. I am sure about that.

Wait, now I am confused based on the tooltip.

From the way it reads, as long as you are above 33% stam, you will always only take 50% damage, of all types.

Meaning you can sit there with a dot on you, lose 0 stam, and take 50% less damage.

It also should mean that, if you take 4 hits in 1 second. Two of those hits eat your stamina. But, as long as you are above 33% stam, all 4 hits should only do 50% damage to you.

That is how the set reads, if you are above 33% stam, you take 50% less damage. It doesn't specify the damage type that you mitigate, just the damage type that eats stamina.

So if it is working otherwise, and you are taking full damage from direct damage hits that don't eat your stam above 33%, then it is either bugged, or the tooltip is wrong or poorly worded.

The set has a cooldown of half a second. If you take damage more often than half a second, then the set does not work. If you have little stamina, then the set does not work.

gariondavey · April 2023

None of this matters if you have a damage shield on

Ecgberht_confused · April 2023

On reading the description again I think the 0.5s cooldown does apply to both the mitigation and the stamina drain, not just the stamina drain. So this makes me less worried about the mythic.

sneakymitchell · April 2023

In pvp this will help against siege weapons or bombers. But if multiple players attack quickly like jabs and flurry. This will negate like quarter of the attacks

dhoward5b14_ESO · April 2023

This has proven difficult to test (still trying), but in PVE if the mitigation has 0.5s CD with the stamina loss, then it is useless for tanking. If a mob hit you with direct damage within 0.5 of a boss attack you expect to be mitigated, you are KO'd.
The wording on the mythic itself and in release notes are not clear on this issue.

Necrotech_Master · April 2023

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

This has proven difficult to test (still trying), but in PVE if the mitigation has 0.5s CD with the stamina loss, then it is useless for tanking. If a mob hit you with direct damage within 0.5 of a boss attack you expect to be mitigated, you are KO'd.
The wording on the mythic itself and in release notes are not clear on this issue.

the scenario i see it working in pve would be an ice staff mag focus tank because then you effectively get normal block mitigation + this mythic mitigation, at the cost of both of your resource pools (though you can still regen stamina while this mythic is in effect, even though you would have to really heavy build stam recov)

Rugby_hook · April 2023

Gambino108 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Also the fact AOE doesn't effect it means most the big skills like Sub Assault, Dawnbreaker, Leap or even Bombing will get the full mitigation - which 9/10 are what kills you in Cyro or BG's. Single target - Direct damage skills are easy to block or dodge most of the time.

Anyway, we wait and see. Gonna log into PTS and try it.

Not arguing with anything else stated, just want to point out that all of these are (at least partially) direct damage. Direct damage does not mean single target. It just means not damage over time. These are all aoe direct damage (dawn breaker has both direct damage and damage over time). These all would deal direct damage, and thus should be expected to drain stam.

dhoward5b14_ESO · April 2023

Esoteric Greaves Mitigation has no CD:
I was able to test whether or not the mitigation has a 0.5s CD along with the stamina drain. It does not. The mitigation applies as long as you are above the required stamina threshold.

I couldn't find a good place overland to test it because even in large adds pulls I could not find a lot of direct damage. Hel Ra Citadel first set of mobs did plenty of direct damage, so that was an easy place to test it (want to see some fast stamina drain?).

I tested it in vAS last boss on an arcanist tank...
30,888 resistance - no bracing anchor:
- non- blocked, damage = 18.6k (for reference, 33k resist w/o mythic and blocking I took 15k)
- just block, damage = 5.6k
- just shielded, damage = 3594 (33k resist w/o mythic, block + shield damage = 9k)
- block + shield (ward master CP), damage = 552.

The shield was about 14k I believe (44k HP on Arcanist with Soldier skill line shield).

YandereGirlfriend · April 2023

gariondavey wrote: »

Heads up that if you are shielded and take direct damage, you don't lose any stam. Saw people using this in duels yesterday on arcanist with lots of damage shields and they were unkillable.

That sounds like a bug that needs squashing!

Necrotech_Master · April 2023

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Esoteric Greaves Mitigation has no CD:
I was able to test whether or not the mitigation has a 0.5s CD along with the stamina drain. It does not. The mitigation applies as long as you are above the required stamina threshold.

I couldn't find a good place overland to test it because even in large adds pulls I could not find a lot of direct damage. Hel Ra Citadel first set of mobs did plenty of direct damage, so that was an easy place to test it (want to see some fast stamina drain?).

I tested it in vAS last boss on an arcanist tank...
30,888 resistance - no bracing anchor:
- non- blocked, damage = 18.6k (for reference, 33k resist w/o mythic and blocking I took 15k)
- just block, damage = 5.6k
- just shielded, damage = 3594 (33k resist w/o mythic, block + shield damage = 9k)
- block + shield (ward master CP), damage = 552.

The shield was about 14k I believe (44k HP on Arcanist with Soldier skill line shield).

thats interesting that the mitigation applies regardless if your losing stam or not

so you get 50% mitigation as long as your stam is above the threshold, but only suffer a max of like 3134 stam drain per second

while that is a ton of stam drain, that is also a ton of mitigation its giving you if it applies as long as it is draining stamina

jaws343 · April 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Esoteric Greaves Mitigation has no CD:
I was able to test whether or not the mitigation has a 0.5s CD along with the stamina drain. It does not. The mitigation applies as long as you are above the required stamina threshold.

I couldn't find a good place overland to test it because even in large adds pulls I could not find a lot of direct damage. Hel Ra Citadel first set of mobs did plenty of direct damage, so that was an easy place to test it (want to see some fast stamina drain?).

I tested it in vAS last boss on an arcanist tank...
30,888 resistance - no bracing anchor:
- non- blocked, damage = 18.6k (for reference, 33k resist w/o mythic and blocking I took 15k)
- just block, damage = 5.6k
- just shielded, damage = 3594 (33k resist w/o mythic, block + shield damage = 9k)
- block + shield (ward master CP), damage = 552.

The shield was about 14k I believe (44k HP on Arcanist with Soldier skill line shield).

thats interesting that the mitigation applies regardless if your losing stam or not

so you get 50% mitigation as long as your stam is above the threshold, but only suffer a max of like 3134 stam drain per second

while that is a ton of stam drain, that is also a ton of mitigation its giving you if it applies as long as it is draining stamina

That all was how I was reading the tooltip.

And I think, if that is how it is intended, it won't be bad, but it also won't be a problem in PVP, because that stam drain is going to go fairly fast.

But also, if the earlier shield interaction is correct and the shield eliminates the stam drain but you still get the mitigation, it is going to likely be bis for sorcs in pvp for defense. Practically doubling shield strength and providing unshielded mitigation if your shield drops off.

Necrotech_Master · April 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Esoteric Greaves Mitigation has no CD:
I was able to test whether or not the mitigation has a 0.5s CD along with the stamina drain. It does not. The mitigation applies as long as you are above the required stamina threshold.

I couldn't find a good place overland to test it because even in large adds pulls I could not find a lot of direct damage. Hel Ra Citadel first set of mobs did plenty of direct damage, so that was an easy place to test it (want to see some fast stamina drain?).

I tested it in vAS last boss on an arcanist tank...
30,888 resistance - no bracing anchor:
- non- blocked, damage = 18.6k (for reference, 33k resist w/o mythic and blocking I took 15k)
- just block, damage = 5.6k
- just shielded, damage = 3594 (33k resist w/o mythic, block + shield damage = 9k)
- block + shield (ward master CP), damage = 552.

The shield was about 14k I believe (44k HP on Arcanist with Soldier skill line shield).

thats interesting that the mitigation applies regardless if your losing stam or not

so you get 50% mitigation as long as your stam is above the threshold, but only suffer a max of like 3134 stam drain per second

while that is a ton of stam drain, that is also a ton of mitigation its giving you if it applies as long as it is draining stamina

That all was how I was reading the tooltip.

And I think, if that is how it is intended, it won't be bad, but it also won't be a problem in PVP, because that stam drain is going to go fairly fast.

But also, if the earlier shield interaction is correct and the shield eliminates the stam drain but you still get the mitigation, it is going to likely be bis for sorcs in pvp for defense. Practically doubling shield strength and providing unshielded mitigation if your shield drops off.

honestly that thing with the shield sounds like a bug, it definitely would be OP and does not sound intended lol

sneakymitchell · April 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

dhoward5b14_ESO wrote: »

Esoteric Greaves Mitigation has no CD:
I was able to test whether or not the mitigation has a 0.5s CD along with the stamina drain. It does not. The mitigation applies as long as you are above the required stamina threshold.

I couldn't find a good place overland to test it because even in large adds pulls I could not find a lot of direct damage. Hel Ra Citadel first set of mobs did plenty of direct damage, so that was an easy place to test it (want to see some fast stamina drain?).

I tested it in vAS last boss on an arcanist tank...
30,888 resistance - no bracing anchor:
- non- blocked, damage = 18.6k (for reference, 33k resist w/o mythic and blocking I took 15k)
- just block, damage = 5.6k
- just shielded, damage = 3594 (33k resist w/o mythic, block + shield damage = 9k)
- block + shield (ward master CP), damage = 552.

The shield was about 14k I believe (44k HP on Arcanist with Soldier skill line shield).

thats interesting that the mitigation applies regardless if your losing stam or not

so you get 50% mitigation as long as your stam is above the threshold, but only suffer a max of like 3134 stam drain per second

while that is a ton of stam drain, that is also a ton of mitigation its giving you if it applies as long as it is draining stamina

That all was how I was reading the tooltip.

And I think, if that is how it is intended, it won't be bad, but it also won't be a problem in PVP, because that stam drain is going to go fairly fast.

But also, if the earlier shield interaction is correct and the shield eliminates the stam drain but you still get the mitigation, it is going to likely be bis for sorcs in pvp for defense. Practically doubling shield strength and providing unshielded mitigation if your shield drops off.

Imagine flurry or Templar jabs this will drain stamina a lot with other things like proc sets, enchants, and so on.

Jammy420 · April 2023

It wont be an issue for anyone who wants to be useful.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2023

Jammy420 wrote: »

It wont be an issue for anyone who wants to be useful.

Unfortunately, 2/3 of Cyrodiil these days is just tankbots either running their own or burning someone else's siege. Nothing short of a ball group ult-dump can kill them - and that's before this Mythic is introduced. This awful tank/siege meta can't end soon enough.

fred4 · April 2023

Read most of the posts, esp. Melzo's and gariondavey's. Sounds like gank protection for newer players to me. Would love to know how the damage mitigation interacts with shields. Am I right in guessing that, just like blocking, shields are not improved, but this is basically like a safety net, e.g. it kicks in when your shield discipline fails or your shield is overwhelmed? That would certainly help in duels, since it covers for mistakes. I can absolutely see this being used by, well, sorcs going into full damage otherwise.

Has anyone tested whether this (accidentally) interacts with stamina cost reduction or any of the core combat cost reductions? It's cost should always be what it says, but with ZOS you never know, right?

fred4 · April 2023

Also, can you build around this? Everyone has been assuming stam regen is the way to make this work, but what about builds that lean on stamina heavy attacks? Vateshran 2H comes to mind for one thing.

Afterip · April 2023

Does DoT damage trigger the effect of this item and devour stamina? If not, then a new meta tank is provided to us.

Ecgberht_confused · April 2023

Afterip wrote: »

Does DoT damage trigger the effect of this item and devour stamina? If not, then a new meta tank is provided to us.

No it doesn't. The stamina drain procs only upon direct damage

Afterip · April 2023

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

No it doesn't. The stamina drain procs only upon direct damage

I see new meta: Master duals, Vatesharan desro, this mythic legs and some stam recovery sets will make any character feel like a DK...

Lucifer9th · April 2023

To reduce the tank meta, they just need to nerf resolving vigor to be a stamina alternative to rapid regeneration, the skill is too easily accessible, overused and overperforming