Why do you insist on plowing forward with changes that are clearly bad for the game?

Necrotech_Master · March 2023

Remathilis wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

- Item sets including:
- Mara's balm
- Dark convergence
- plaguebreak
- hrothgars
- snake in the stars

As an aside; I love how every few months ZoS releases a few PvP sourced sets that everyone playing PvP universally despises and wants deleted from the game. Has there been a single one of these rotw sets that has been lauded as a welcomed improvement to the PvP scene? Heck, has there been one people have found inoffensive?

the ones that were either nerfed so hard nobody uses (nocturnals ploy) to ones that provide so little benefit that nobody used them (langour of peryite)

in the ones listed in the posted you had quoted that is only 5 of the sets, 3 of which were all released in 1 grouping (plague, dc, hrothgars), maras released with the other sets i mentioned in my first statement (nocturnal and langour), snake hasnt released yet, but i havent seen the other 2 sets being nailed as hard as snake has (though there have been some posts concerning the akatosh one with the mass snare they were pretty much drowned out by the snake in the stars concern)

Hottytotz · March 2023

Billium813 wrote: »

React wrote: »

This has been a very frustrating PTS cycle.

The communication Kevin offered was a double edged sword. While we have been begging for it (which we shouldn't have to), the gist of what they told us is that "We hear your concerns, but we're going to do what we think is best". Perhaps this is why they've been so hesitant to offer communication about balance in the past - because they have no intentions of justifying or clarifying their decisions related to balance.

That's interesting because I kinda got the exact opposite feeling from the responses.

Kevin asked for more discussions on Templar and Sorc pain points; which the community described in GREAT detail. We described issues with Mara's Balm and heal stacking / SitS. Minor changes were made and the community may not like the final result for those sets, but in all honesty I'm not sure what players were expecting...

There was NO world in which any of those class issues would be addressed in this same PTS cycle they were brought up. There was NO world in which ZOS just reverts all their proposed changes and says "ok, I guess we aren't doing anything then this PTS". Mara's Balm is most likely still busted, SitS is most likely gonna hurt PvP further, but ZOS wants to see some Live results before they make FURTHER changes. I say "Fine, whatever"; I'm not happy about it either but until they see for themselves they won't believe us anyway and they AREN"T going to make radical changes without Live evidence! That's just how it is. I just think players need to exercise a bit of patience in their expectations. We, the community, dumped a bunch of information and HOPEFULLY this will go back to the dev team to be addressed in some form in the next patch. Keep your eyes on v8.4.0 and when what we brought up here is ignored there... then complain.

IMO, my biggest issue with PTS is the same issue I've had for the last 6 years: It's gonna take the team 3-4 months to fix issues that we will know are problems 1 week after the changes go Live. I acknowledge that the current system is TERRIBLY SLOW, I want that fixed as much as anyone. But I think we should be complaining about the slow dev cycle, not because we THINK they aren't listening

Your comments would make a tiny bit of sense if most of the feedback given wasnt already in threads going back 9-12 months already and hadnt just been ignored............ Seriously?..

mmtaniac · March 2023

It's easy they think they do good things but they won't not with class balance. Class balance is worst thing in game, ok maybe servers are worse but still class balance is right behind. There should be more frequent balance/rework patches. Atleast once per month.

TechMaybeHic · March 2023

Hottytotz wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

React wrote: »

This has been a very frustrating PTS cycle.

The communication Kevin offered was a double edged sword. While we have been begging for it (which we shouldn't have to), the gist of what they told us is that "We hear your concerns, but we're going to do what we think is best". Perhaps this is why they've been so hesitant to offer communication about balance in the past - because they have no intentions of justifying or clarifying their decisions related to balance.

That's interesting because I kinda got the exact opposite feeling from the responses.

Kevin asked for more discussions on Templar and Sorc pain points; which the community described in GREAT detail. We described issues with Mara's Balm and heal stacking / SitS. Minor changes were made and the community may not like the final result for those sets, but in all honesty I'm not sure what players were expecting...

There was NO world in which any of those class issues would be addressed in this same PTS cycle they were brought up. There was NO world in which ZOS just reverts all their proposed changes and says "ok, I guess we aren't doing anything then this PTS". Mara's Balm is most likely still busted, SitS is most likely gonna hurt PvP further, but ZOS wants to see some Live results before they make FURTHER changes. I say "Fine, whatever"; I'm not happy about it either but until they see for themselves they won't believe us anyway and they AREN"T going to make radical changes without Live evidence! That's just how it is. I just think players need to exercise a bit of patience in their expectations. We, the community, dumped a bunch of information and HOPEFULLY this will go back to the dev team to be addressed in some form in the next patch. Keep your eyes on v8.4.0 and when what we brought up here is ignored there... then complain.

IMO, my biggest issue with PTS is the same issue I've had for the last 6 years: It's gonna take the team 3-4 months to fix issues that we will know are problems 1 week after the changes go Live. I acknowledge that the current system is TERRIBLY SLOW, I want that fixed as much as anyone. But I think we should be complaining about the slow dev cycle, not because we THINK they aren't listening

Your comments would make a tiny bit of sense if most of the feedback given wasnt already in threads going back 9-12 months already and hadnt just been ignored............ Seriously?..

LoL yeah. I was happy to see them ask for issues but at the same time put off that they didn't know when nearly all of it had been posted for months already

Schared · March 2023

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Basically title.
The complete lack of combat adjustments in the incremental patch today shows that ZOS is not taking the issues we've raised with their direction this, and the last several, patches seriously.

Plowing forward with buffing DKs, the already objectively most overpowered class in the game, only considering which skills "used", and ignoring the full picture of the class as a whole.
Plowing forward with health-scaling wards even though this is not even remotely related to the changes that were asked for.
Plowing forward with no meaningfuladjustments for Sorcerer or Templar, or anything to replace the deleted playstyle for Necromancers.
Plowing forward with Snake in the Stars even though it is barely a band-aid for the very real problem of PVP healstacking.

What do we have to do to get the design team to take a step back and actually pay meaningful attention to our feedback?
It clearly isn't "provide hard data" because we've done that and all we've gotten back is a "nah, we don't think that's a problem", or a "we're looking at this" (then nothing ever comes of it).

The reply is simple - they do not know who to make the game for.
Most recently they adjusted massively to include Stadia which ultimately fell flat entirely making their work wasted.
That PC and Console share the same game is ultimately detremental as the design for PC could be more sophisticated and the Dev's have to adjust for console.
They hybridtized to appease more casual players only to ruin the fantasy of a Mage-Roleplayer.
There is a myriad of sets in the game - that most devs have never interacted with, yet they insist of releasing new ones instead of fixing the old ones.
Entire game mechanics have been abandoned (synergy's eg) and certain feats of strength have been abandoned for example being able to clear vMA used to tell people that you are worthy of an invite to their pugrun.
Builds like the oakensoul builds have made triple-carry runs trivial meaning it is even harder for new players to find progression groups - getting asked to just "buy one".

I dont wanna get started on Combat rn but you can likely see the trend here.

I would even go as far as to say that crown for gold trading and the Collection/Stickerbook are ultimately bad for ESO. While I myself benefited hugely of those systems I do not think an MMO should have a finite grind nor should there be an expectation of everyone being full best-in-slot for a raid.

The TLDR is they do no communicate, therefore do not know who may be able to help them with x-slice-of-the-game and once they have done a change that turned to crap they are to proud to roll it back.

robpr · March 2023

Remathilis wrote: »

As an aside; I love how every few months ZoS releases a few PvP sourced sets that everyone playing PvP universally despises and wants deleted from the game. Has there been a single one of these rotw sets that has been lauded as a welcomed improvement to the PvP scene? Heck, has there been one people have found inoffensive?

Yes, Rallying Cry. Strongest backbar set but not 100% busted due to scaling down with group size.

ADarklore · March 2023

I think until the nerf to Arcanist comes a couple months after launch, we won't see any meaningful buffs to older classes. Although I do agree, WHY the continuous buff to DK is beyond me when it seems to be already over-performing in most cases.

TechMaybeHic · March 2023

ADarklore wrote: »

I think until the nerf to Arcanist comes a couple months after launch, we won't see any meaningful buffs to older classes. Although I do agree, WHY the continuous buff to DK is beyond me when it seems to be already over-performing in most cases.

They want it to be obviously OP so there are enough people that say a nerfwas warranted when they do it the same update Arcanist is released. My guess is they'll slightly buff Necro and Plar at that time as well

The_Titan_Tim · March 2023

Think about it this way… if you funnel everyone into playing one class by buffing it repeatedly to the point where it’s clearly overperforming, you create a situation where people thank you for destroying it while the majority of players become class-less.

So when Dragonknight is nerfed into Oblivion, after your favorite class before it was destroyed pushing you to it in the first place, you won’t think to go back to any of the other classes… no... rationale will have you choosing the new class.

It’s not fair, but fairness doesn’t sell.