What is the incentive to keep playing when your playstyle gets removed entirely?

sharquez · March 2023

It hardly feels real but the Necro nerfs went through. Millions of gold spent obtaining and perfecting the gear for my builds. Hundreds of transmute stones gone. 1 patch and my gear is now garbage. My characters unable to fulfill their roles. No recourse. No compensation. Just go back and grind out something else.

It's like finishing a beautiful painting and then watching someone walk by and pour gasoline on it and light it on fire and say: nice job start over. There have been aggressive nerfs in the past but to outright delete a playstyle that WAS PUSHED BY THE GAMES CREATORS as one of the GO TO STYLES is outrageous.

Where do I go now? What do I do with those characters? Why should I keep playing? Why would I buy a new class if it is going to be gutted an indeterminant amount of time after anyway?
Help me understand why I should invest any more time and money in a game when at any moment the characters I worked so hard to build play and master can just be functionally destroyed.

I'm a necro player and I'm unheard, scorned, and pissed off, I'm out millions of gold and hundreds of transmute stones. Now I guess I've got to go keep playing right? Pitch that to your sales and balance team. Apparently people gobble it right up.

FantasticFreddie · March 2023

Yeah, I only dabbled on cro bomber in pvp, but it was a fun thing to see in action, I was never even mad when I got hit gud by one.

The double hit of harmony nerf and boneyard cripple has gutted both the class and an entire style of play, and I'm not happy about it.

Soarora · March 2023

Absolutely agree. I’ve seen someone say here something that heavily impacted me: no one should fear updates, and yet here we are. I feel like we’ve been told several times now the “sweeping combat changes” are going to stop. But they are not. Not entirely. No one should have to fear irrelevancy every patch.

spartaxoxo · March 2023

You either move on to a different game or create a build, not much else there is to be done. It's unfortunate, but also a part of MMOs or online service game is sometimes developers decide some playstyle is unhealthy for the game and nerf or delete it. I don't think you'll find immunity to that outside of single player games. It's the nature of the genre, sadly.

FantasticFreddie · March 2023

The reasoning was also so flawed as to be laughable. They've taken the trait from.aomething multiple different specs can make use of, to something that maybe the occasional tank will use. What were they even thinking?

Amottica · March 2023

sharquez wrote: »

What do I do with those characters?

Create new builds as many serious players do every year, and sometimes multiple times a year.

sharquez wrote: »

Why should I keep playing?

It is a personal choice. If you are really into ESO then adjust. Though it may be time for a break given the animosity I am gleaming from the comments made. I could be wrong about that but again, it is a personal choice as to what each of us do.

ZhrIcon · March 2023

As a former Magnecro main of a few years, I'm happy to see harmony gone from PvP. It made ball group play very boring, had over tuned damage, and was not fun to fight against if you weren't in a similar styled group (not saying just the Necro, but the harmony playstyles in general). That said, what else do you do on Necro? There really aren't many other viable playstyles on the class in solo or small-scale PvP. May as well have just gotten rid of the DoT passives on the Necro (since the class essentially doesn't have any meaningful class DoTs???) and gave them a % boost to all synergies to keep the playstyles around. Stuck with the class for a long time just because I liked the corpse mechanic and a select few skills. But can't say I miss the class honestly. Which is a shame, because it's thematically a very cool class, and has some cool mechanics and skills. But it ultimately feels uninspired, clunky, and doesn't have much of an identity now.

-Words from someone who said they'd never play another class if a Necromancer was introduced into ESO.

sharquez · March 2023

Amottica wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

What do I do with those characters?

Create new builds as many serious players do every year, and sometimes multiple times a year.

sharquez wrote: »

Why should I keep playing?

It is a personal choice. If you are really into ESO then adjust. Though it may be time for a break given the animosity I am gleaming from the comments made. I could be wrong about that but again, it is a personal choice as to what each of us do.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You either move on to a different game or create a build, not much else there is to be done. It's unfortunate, but also a part of MMOs or online service game is sometimes developers decide some playstyle is unhealthy for the game and nerf or delete it. I don't think you'll find immunity to that outside of single player games. It's the nature of the genre, sadly.

It's easy to give up and leave. it would be way easier. But I'd rather have a conversation so lets take that option of the table for now, and on to the next point.

Why would I make a new build when history shows if it's effective or stand out its most assuredly going to be removed from the game and you out all the time and money invested? Its not sustainable and something has to change. My point is I (and countless others on who's behalf I can speak confidently) have hit my fetching limit.

There should, no, MUST be a positive incentive to acquire new gear. I can't get excited about being driven to grind new gear out of desperation, and constantly fearing my next breakthrough that results in anything more than an impotent level of effectiveness isn't going to be taken away every 3 months.

You cannot play how you want. Mark my words if you are serious about this game there will come a time when your favorite character or playstyle will come into the crosshairs (or it already has). This is an environment of build anxiety that we have now and the only ones enjoying it are so numbed by the Stockholm syndrome of it or too new or OOTL to understand how these changes affect them. For the old guard like myself it sucks Alit offal straight from the tap.

Aorys · March 2023

150 transmutes and its fixed

SeaGtGruff · March 2023

This is one reason I prefer to avoid "builds" and just try to focus on playing the game. I do have a couple of Necro characters-- one per server-- but they're just alts and I've never tried to develop them yet. Same goes for my DK and Templar alts-- not that I have zero interest in those classes (I wouldn't have created characters with them if I had zero interest), but merely because I spend almost all of my time playing on my main characters (one per server).

On PC NA my main is a Sorc who's the second character I ever created-- after messing around with and messing up on my first character, whose purpose was really just to help me get a feel for the game and how things worked (and who, coincidentally, is also a Sorc)-- and I stick with him mainly because of all the time I've invested into him for things like crafting.

On PC EU my main is a NB who's the first character I created on that server, and likewise I stick with him mainly because of all the time I've invested into him.

In both cases, I tend to not play their classes very much, aside from using combat pets on my Sorc if I need them, because I tend to rely on my weapon skills instead. Neither one has a "build" per se; rather, I've tried to develop them into well-rounded characters in the sense of being tanky enough to (hopefully) survive in solo PvE, just deepsy enough to kill stuff but without melting through everything like a hot knife through soft butter, etc.-- not built specifically for PvE or PvP but able to dabble in both, and not really built specifically for any given group roles either but somewhere between a DD and a tank. It took me at least a year to get either one to a place where I could handle some of the more difficult content, and some past updates did hit them pretty hard, but I just keep trying my best to adapt to whatever changes get made.

Susinok1 · March 2023

Yep. Cries in Templar. I unsubscribed on Patch 35 and haven't given them a dime since.

Gimmie my old jabs back!

spartaxoxo · March 2023

sharquez wrote: »

You cannot play how you want. Mark my words if you are serious about this game there will come a time when your favorite character or playstyle will come into the crosshairs (or it already has). This is an environment of build anxiety that we have now and the only ones enjoying it are so numbed by the Stockholm syndrome of it or too new or OOTL to understand how these changes affect them. For the old guard like myself it sucks Alit offal straight from the tap.

Oh. I understand. I have played online multiplayer since the early aughts. I have had a build or character destroyed in all of them. I am currently also playing OW and my favorite hero, Sombra, is getting her third or fourth rework at this point. They even changed the whole game from 6v6 to 5v5.

It's just something I have learned I have to make peace with when I'm playing online games. Sometimes, your characters just get destroyed and your only choice is to adapt your playstyle or exit. The developers almost never go back on such decisions. I do not like it either. It really sucks. And they most definitely basically entirely removed Necro-bombing from pvp so I understand why you feel so demotivated. It's just, only you can find your own motivation to play again. And if you're not having fun playing the game, it may be a good idea to take a break and recharge.

FantasticFreddie · March 2023

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

This is one reason I prefer to avoid "builds" and just try to focus on playing the game. I do have a couple of Necro characters-- one per server-- but they're just alts and I've never tried to develop them yet. Same goes for my DK and Templar alts-- not that I have zero interest in those classes (I wouldn't have created characters with them if I had zero interest), but merely because I spend almost all of my time playing on my main characters (one per server).

On PC NA my main is a Sorc who's the second character I ever created-- after messing around with and messing up on my first character, whose purpose was really just to help me get a feel for the game and how things worked (and who, coincidentally, is also a Sorc)-- and I stick with him mainly because of all the time I've invested into him for things like crafting.

On PC EU my main is a NB who's the first character I created on that server, and likewise I stick with him mainly because of all the time I've invested into him.

In both cases, I tend to not play their classes very much, aside from using combat pets on my Sorc if I need them, because I tend to rely on my weapon skills instead. Neither one has a "build" per se; rather, I've tried to develop them into well-rounded characters in the sense of being tanky enough to (hopefully) survive in solo PvE, just deepsy enough to kill stuff but without melting through everything like a hot knife through soft butter, etc.-- not built specifically for PvE or PvP but able to dabble in both, and not really built specifically for any given group roles either but somewhere between a DD and a tank. It took me at least a year to get either one to a place where I could handle some of the more difficult content, and some past updates did hit them pretty hard, but I just keep trying my best to adapt to whatever changes get made.

"Don't play them as unique classes, just use weapon skills and do just barely enough damage to scrape by"

This is the most depressing comment on this thread. Like, I'm glad that works for you, but holy sheet is that a bleak way to play the game.

merpins · March 2023

Happened to my NB in 2016. Happened to my Sorc in 2018. Happened to my Sorc again in U34, and then my longest running main since the game came out, my main since 2014, my Templar, in U35.

Worst part. Templar won't be fixed. Even if they buff the class or give it some other kit with skill utility changes, the likelihood of ZoS reverting Jabs to its old animation is close to non-existent. They can nerf a class into obscurity, make sets that were good bad, they can make a playstyle not good for a while, and it will eventually bounce back. Always does. But changing the animation on a skill can make or break a class. And unfortunately, the new Jabs animation is bad and won't ever not be bad.

FluffWit · March 2023

So pleased they finally did something about those damn synergies. You still have an extremely strong ulti.

Heromofo · March 2023

Not a necro player but i am sorry to hear this bro, i truly hate when they do this. Backstory my mates and i are Australian and we don't have our own servers this side so we play with mega lag. To the point if you go in Cyrodiil or battlegrounds you can legit be booted out of the game as you dc all the time or everyone freeze jumps. We had a viable build a few years ago (pve side) that ended up getting nerfed into the ground. We had no choice but to put the game down as we couldn't handle the lag, packloss and not having a viable build that worked with it.

We just came back a few months ago thanks to the Oakensoul builds. Honestly without them we would probably have to put the game down a second time. So i truly do feel that pain you are probably dealing with by losing your build. Never alone taking into account the sheer amount of time and resources it takes to set up any build.

CrashTest · March 2023

There's no incentive. The constant and massive changes every 3 months are a reason many players stopped playing ESO.

Marcus684 · March 2023

If your overtuned build getting nerfed causes you to quit, then ESO probably wasn't for you. ZOS has a looong history of this.

Alaztor91 · March 2023

Maybe now with the crutches finally removed ZOS can actually buff/rework their offensive kit so you actually start seeing Necromancers in PvP instead of just edgy bombers.

sharquez · March 2023

Nerfed is far too weak a word. it was deleted you should check out the patch notes.
I already acknowledged the fact that they do this and explicitly stated that quitting has been taken off the table.

If I wanted to outright quit and give up I would just do that and not make this attempt to appeal for some level of empathy from other players and recourse or recompense from the people who can actually give it.

I used to love this game and care deeply about its health and the amount of entertainment it brings me and it pains me to see it in this state.

I can understand differing opinions for this nerf from mine but the fact of the matter is this changes nothing for people who hate being bombed. Its still going to happen just with nightblades and now Dragonknights.

ssewallb14_ESO · March 2023

ZOS will fairly frequently just delete play styles, they've been doing it since the game came out. It's something you either accept about ESO or move on.

disintegr8 · March 2023

Necromancer

Grave Lord

Boneyard
Graverobber (morph): Reduced the damage of this synergy by approximately 34% to ensure it is of similar power to other synergies of its ilk, such as Conduit or Combustion.

Skeletal Mage
Skeletal Archer (morph): Fixed an issue where the damage boost from this morph would fail to apply if the damage was blocked.

Bone Tyrant
Death Gleaning: This passive now restores 333/666 Magicka and Stamina when a nearby enemy dies, up from 100/200.

All I'm seeing in the PC patch notes is the above. If this is what has killed off the Necromancer, then it's an easy kill, if something else is in the mix, then I have no idea.

People choose a favourite class for various reasons, usually because they are powerful in their role or are easier to play than other classes. Any class like this is potentially 'overperforming' and is likely to feel the nerf hammer at some point, just like any class that is underperforming becomes eligible for a boost.

SeaGtGruff · March 2023

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

This is one reason I prefer to avoid "builds" and just try to focus on playing the game. I do have a couple of Necro characters-- one per server-- but they're just alts and I've never tried to develop them yet. Same goes for my DK and Templar alts-- not that I have zero interest in those classes (I wouldn't have created characters with them if I had zero interest), but merely because I spend almost all of my time playing on my main characters (one per server).

On PC NA my main is a Sorc who's the second character I ever created-- after messing around with and messing up on my first character, whose purpose was really just to help me get a feel for the game and how things worked (and who, coincidentally, is also a Sorc)-- and I stick with him mainly because of all the time I've invested into him for things like crafting.

On PC EU my main is a NB who's the first character I created on that server, and likewise I stick with him mainly because of all the time I've invested into him.

In both cases, I tend to not play their classes very much, aside from using combat pets on my Sorc if I need them, because I tend to rely on my weapon skills instead. Neither one has a "build" per se; rather, I've tried to develop them into well-rounded characters in the sense of being tanky enough to (hopefully) survive in solo PvE, just deepsy enough to kill stuff but without melting through everything like a hot knife through soft butter, etc.-- not built specifically for PvE or PvP but able to dabble in both, and not really built specifically for any given group roles either but somewhere between a DD and a tank. It took me at least a year to get either one to a place where I could handle some of the more difficult content, and some past updates did hit them pretty hard, but I just keep trying my best to adapt to whatever changes get made.

"Don't play them as unique classes, just use weapon skills and do just barely enough damage to scrape by"

This is the most depressing comment on this thread. Like, I'm glad that works for you, but holy sheet is that a bleak way to play the game.

I could easily do more damage if I respecced and regeared to be more of a DD, but I prefer playing with a semi-tank/semi-DD character. I don't care to respec or regear in search of higher DPS, because I enjoy longer and more-challenging fights. You'll never see me crying in the forums about how this game is mind-numbingly boring and trivially easy because I can just melt through everything. I mean, I realize that the typical gamer just wants to power-up to the max and burn through the game (any game) and grab their rewards and achievements as soon as possible, and if that's fun for them then great, whatever.

Pelanora · March 2023

When the thing you love about a game, gets taken away from you by the game, it sucks. It is like someone reached in and stole your fun and your pleasure, saying 'we gave it to you but no you just can't have it'.

It sucks. I hear you.

You can only try to find another reason to play, or you walk away. That's it.

shadyjane62 · March 2023

Susinok1 wrote: »

Yep. Cries in Templar. I unsubscribed on Patch 35 and haven't given them a dime since.

Gimmie my old jabs back!

Me too. [snip] Been here 9 years. Have never felt so irrelevant.

[Edited for Quit Posting]

sharquez · March 2023

disintegr8 wrote: »

Necromancer

Grave Lord

Boneyard
Graverobber (morph): Reduced the damage of this synergy by approximately 34% to ensure it is of similar power to other synergies of its ilk, such as Conduit or Combustion.

Skeletal Mage
Skeletal Archer (morph): Fixed an issue where the damage boost from this morph would fail to apply if the damage was blocked.

Bone Tyrant
Death Gleaning: This passive now restores 333/666 Magicka and Stamina when a nearby enemy dies, up from 100/200.

All I'm seeing in the PC patch notes is the above. If this is what has killed off the Necromancer, then it's an easy kill, if something else is in the mix, then I have no idea.

People choose a favourite class for various reasons, usually because they are powerful in their role or are easier to play than other classes. Any class like this is potentially 'overperforming' and is likely to feel the nerf hammer at some point, just like any class that is underperforming becomes eligible for a boost.

You missed:

Harmony:
This trait now grants you up to 880 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you activate a synergy per trait, rather than increasing the healing, damage, and shielding potency of synergies by 20% per trait.
Fixed an issue where Harmony did not interact with Companion synergies.

It's not even just necromancers that felt this, The harmony using playstyle has been deleted. This affects, Sets like Gryphon's Rep-, Lady Thorn, Undaunted skills and and every class that could benefit from or use synergies to create burst damage opportunities.

Necromancer was just the star contender of making good use of it, make no mistake everyone suffers from this change.
This absurd narrative of necros overperforming in PVP because if is.. well absurd.

Heaven forbid any class but Nightblade or DK gets to kill players. Bombs haven't disappeared. One class was simply singled out as arbitrarily not being allowed to do it anymore.

Any other class that had access to being able to use synergies in tandem to bomb like templars gets caught in the collateral.

Offhandedly though I'm certain this is just screaming into the void much like any constructive feed back has felt ignored.
Time for another break I guess. Seems to be the consensus.

I have a burnt out little rice grain sized ember of hope that maybe something good will come from this year, it's all that keeps me going.

Far far too many have given up or been broken, just look at this thread. look at everyone who's will and drive has been shattered. I see you and I'm sorry for you.

Elsonso · March 2023

Yeah, they terminate or change play styles. Frequently.

oldbobdude · March 2023

Susinok1 wrote: »

Yep. Cries in Templar. I unsubscribed on Patch 35 and haven't given them a dime since.

Gimmie my old jabs back!

Likewise. I took a wait and see after 35. But nothing happened to resolve my happiness with game. [snip] I’ve been doing daily writs and making stuff for alt research but haven’t done a dungeon since Nov last year. Nothing I want from any events since the time stopping housing clock last year. Guess I’ll just fade away. Lol

[Edited for quit posting]

Jaraal · March 2023

disintegr8 wrote: »

Necromancer

Grave Lord

Boneyard
Graverobber (morph): Reduced the damage of this synergy by approximately 34% to ensure it is of similar power to other synergies of its ilk, such as Conduit or Combustion.

Skeletal Mage
Skeletal Archer (morph): Fixed an issue where the damage boost from this morph would fail to apply if the damage was blocked.

Bone Tyrant
Death Gleaning: This passive now restores 333/666 Magicka and Stamina when a nearby enemy dies, up from 100/200.

All I'm seeing in the PC patch notes is the above. If this is what has killed off the Necromancer, then it's an easy kill, if something else is in the mix, then I have no idea.

It's about a certain group gear and skill combination that was being used to kill a large number of players at once ("bombing") in PvP.

I don't play necro, but honestly, way too many people are not blocking and/or rolling out of the obvious telegraph involved here. I don't really condone cheese builds as a crutch, but a lot of this is actually a learn to play issue. However, the squeaky wheel usually gets the grease.

Marcus684 · March 2023

Jaraal wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Necromancer

Grave Lord

Boneyard
Graverobber (morph): Reduced the damage of this synergy by approximately 34% to ensure it is of similar power to other synergies of its ilk, such as Conduit or Combustion.

Skeletal Mage
Skeletal Archer (morph): Fixed an issue where the damage boost from this morph would fail to apply if the damage was blocked.

Bone Tyrant
Death Gleaning: This passive now restores 333/666 Magicka and Stamina when a nearby enemy dies, up from 100/200.

All I'm seeing in the PC patch notes is the above. If this is what has killed off the Necromancer, then it's an easy kill, if something else is in the mix, then I have no idea.

It's about a certain group gear and skill combination that was being used to kill a large number of players at once ("bombing") in PvP.

I don't play necro, but honestly, way too many people are not blocking and/or rolling out of the obvious telegraph involved here. I don't really condone cheese builds as a crutch, but a lot of this is actually a learn to play issue. However, the squeaky wheel usually gets the grease.

If pvp bombing is the crux of the OP’s complaint, and their mention of burst damage leads me to believe that it is, then ignoring telegraphs was not the issue, and placing the blame on the victims of the obviously-overtuned necrobombers is disingenuous at best. Cyrodiil had gotten so bad that whenever more than 3 players would flip a flag or repair a door, most of them would just spread out and stand there waiting for the inevitable bomber, because that was the only counterplay unless the bomber wasn’t very skilled or got unlucky. While I’m sure it was hilarious and profitable for the bomber, it just became frustrating for everyone on the other end of it. If the latest patch results in the death of the necrobomb, I say good riddance.

Quethrosar · March 2023

ALL I see now is yet another pvp junk messing with the bigger game. Everything nerfed I read is because of pvp. So get rid of pvp or make fine tune pvp so it's nerfs do not effect the pve