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Forced Lockpicking secretly nerfed in January.
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Paralyse✭✭✭✭✭Finedaible wrote: »Outside of rare instances during Heists there really is no reason to force a lock. I don't even spend points into that passive anymore.
When doing chest runs (paths) in overland zones or public dungeons it is a major time-saver, if I can save 10-30 seconds per chest that's quite a big time saver when doing, say, 50-100 chests per run, or more.
It's also very useful for people like me who have neurological coordination disorders that affect fine motor skills. It's hard enough to do certain things in this game already without needing to get frustrated trying to do the minigame. The Skyrim/Fallout 4-style minigame was easier for me to do.
Paralyse, Sanguine's Tester - Enjoying ESO since beta. Trial clears: vSS HM, Crag HM's, vRG Oax HM, vMoL DD, vKA HM, vCR+1, vAS IR, vDSR, vSE1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When you engage the lock, your percentage chance of success is displayed in the lower left part of the screen. Has it changed? I really doubt ZOS would nerf the success rate without editing the displayed chance. But then again….Why force locks? Picking is simple and quick.
When you force thousands of door, chest, and safebox locks a day, like many of us do, it saves a lot of time. If you enjoy picking the locks, that’s great. But not everybody can afford to use their limited gameplay time playing the minigame. It’s just not profitable.
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SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When you force thousands of door, chest, and safebox locks a day, like many of us do, it saves a lot of time. If you enjoy picking the locks, that’s great. But not everybody can afford to use their limited gameplay time playing the minigame. It’s just not profitable.
Thousands a day? And many players do that?PCNA1 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Myself and a few others in guild chat were thinking the same. Going through 5-10 lockpicks on a simple chest with max legerdemain has become a regular occurrence. I no longer force locks. Can't say if anything's actually been changed, but it does feel that way.Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.4 -
Tensar✭✭✭✭i have the same problem, never experienced this in years but now it happen at every chest even with 85%
It's not real rng3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually felt like they made it easier because I've been getting even Master chests open with 1 maybe 2 lockpicks a lot lately. But it could just be confirmation bias where I felt lucky so I noticed more times I was lucky. It probably is that. I doubt they have made changes. Or maybe I did hit a lucky pick streak.
Anyway, I farmed out two of the music box leads from chests and it felt like it was usually just an instant open on the chests.Edited by spartaxoxo on February 28, 2023 1:25AM0 -
Carcamongus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If it's not RNGeesus, then what? What system determines that your attempt at forcing, with a success chance of 80%, say, will succeed or fail? I've also had the infuriating experience of failing a simple chest several times and getting a master one on my first try. The former is so ridiculous it tends to stick in the memory. What I've noticed is there are days when it appears forcing fails more often, which would point towards RNGeesus having a few giggles at my expense, but that's not something that started in January.Imperial DK and Necro tank. PC/NA
"Nothing is so bad that it can't get any worse." (Brazilian saying)1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When you engage the lock, your percentage chance of success is displayed in the lower left part of the screen. Has it changed? I really doubt ZOS would nerf the success rate without editing the displayed chance. But then again….Why force locks? Picking is simple and quick.
When you force thousands of door, chest, and safebox locks a day, like many of us do, it saves a lot of time. If you enjoy picking the locks, that’s great. But not everybody can afford to use their limited gameplay time playing the minigame. It’s just not profitable.
Uh. Well, whatever works for you for fun I guess.
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"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »When you force thousands of door, chest, and safebox locks a day, like many of us do, it saves a lot of time. If you enjoy picking the locks, that’s great. But not everybody can afford to use their limited gameplay time playing the minigame. It’s just not profitable.
Thousands a day? And many players do that?
One zone that I farm in has 165 overland chests (not counting delves and public dungeons), 42 safe boxes, and 18 doors with locks that need to be opened. I can run the route in under 90 minutes, and I have six max level Legerdemain/Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood characters who all have the Black Market Mogul achievement many times over. They have earned me hundreds of millions of gold, and it’s part of the game that I really enjoy doing.
And yes, I’m nowhere near the top earners in the field.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »When you force thousands of door, chest, and safebox locks a day, like many of us do, it saves a lot of time. If you enjoy picking the locks, that’s great. But not everybody can afford to use their limited gameplay time playing the minigame. It’s just not profitable.
Thousands a day? And many players do that?
One zone that I farm in has 165 overland chests (not counting delves and public dungeons), 42 safe boxes, and 18 doors with locks that need to be opened. I can run the route in under 90 minutes, and I have six max level Legerdemain/Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood characters who all have the Black Market Mogul achievement many times over. They have earned me hundreds of millions of gold, and it’s part of the game that I really enjoy doing.
And yes, I’m nowhere near the top earners in the field.
Every chest spawn spot doesn't have an active chest in it all the time. Thousands of chests a day would not be possible, especially if the player has limited time to play.PCNA1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »When you force thousands of door, chest, and safebox locks a day, like many of us do, it saves a lot of time. If you enjoy picking the locks, that’s great. But not everybody can afford to use their limited gameplay time playing the minigame. It’s just not profitable.
Thousands a day? And many players do that?
One zone that I farm in has 165 overland chests (not counting delves and public dungeons), 42 safe boxes, and 18 doors with locks that need to be opened. I can run the route in under 90 minutes, and I have six max level Legerdemain/Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood characters who all have the Black Market Mogul achievement many times over. They have earned me hundreds of millions of gold, and it’s part of the game that I really enjoy doing.
And yes, I’m nowhere near the top earners in the field.
Every chest spawn spot doesn't have an active chest in it all the time. Thousands of chests a day would not be possible, especially if the player has limited time to play.
I appreciate your opinion on something you’ve never accomplished. But I will stand by my personal experience.
Edited by Jaraal on February 28, 2023 2:26AM4 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When you engage the lock, your percentage chance of success is displayed in the lower left part of the screen. Has it changed? I really doubt ZOS would nerf the success rate without editing the displayed chance. But then again….Why force locks? Picking is simple and quick.
When you force thousands of door, chest, and safebox locks a day, like many of us do, it saves a lot of time. If you enjoy picking the locks, that’s great. But not everybody can afford to use their limited gameplay time playing the minigame. It’s just not profitable.
Uh. Well, whatever works for you for fun I guess.
Some people enjoy running the same dungeons hundreds of times, or spend their time doing daily writs on 36+ characters. Some people run battlegrounds or play card matches all day long. Those things don’t appeal to me at all. But fortunately ESO provides a lot of different things that interest a wide variety of players.3 -
Paralyse✭✭✭✭✭If you can average 100 chests per hour, 1000 is not that difficult.
Even at 75 chests per hour, it's still not that difficult.
And with the proper gear and CP and builds, using a node pathing/mapping/route addon to follow an optimal path, those numbers are fully achievable.Paralyse, Sanguine's Tester - Enjoying ESO since beta. Trial clears: vSS HM, Crag HM's, vRG Oax HM, vMoL DD, vKA HM, vCR+1, vAS IR, vDSR, vSE3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you can average 100 chests per hour, 1000 is not that difficult.
Even at 75 chests per hour, it's still not that difficult.
And with the proper gear and CP and builds, using a node pathing/mapping/route addon to follow an optimal path, those numbers are fully achievable.
At 75 locks an hour it would take 13 hours and 20 minutes to open 1000. And it would require opening 1.25 locks each minute, which leaves very little time to get from one chest to another.PCNA3 -
NettleCarrier✭✭✭✭✭Yeah sorry, no difference here. I've always failed a good number of simple locks, it's just the way it is.GM of Gold Coast Corsairs - PCNA0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
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I would agree but unless they keys accurate and consistent records (or someone did) prior to the patch the information would be meaningless due to lack of anything to compare it to.
But the point is accurate. It’s easy to think something was changed based on a small sampling and especially perception which tends to be inaccurate.
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »If you can average 100 chests per hour, 1000 is not that difficult.
Even at 75 chests per hour, it's still not that difficult.
And with the proper gear and CP and builds, using a node pathing/mapping/route addon to follow an optimal path, those numbers are fully achievable.
At 75 locks an hour it would take 13 hours and 20 minutes to open 1000. And it would require opening 1.25 locks each minute, which leaves very little time to get from one chest to another.
I just did a route on my circuit. I believe 1 chest may have been looted by someone else because they were clearly farming too. I still managed to snag 3 chests in 3:36 seconds. I ran into them a couple of times and kept restarting before giving up and just counted what I did in that cycle.
If I can do that in a fairly wide area (not as big as a whole zone) with competition, it's not unfeasible to me someone else could do 1.25 chests in better conditions.
I have never done a thousand personally. I don't have the patience to grind that long but I can see someone devoting a Saturday to it or whatever every now and then.
ETA
You would definitely have to be doing it for hours and hours one end to hit a thousand though, as you have pointed out.Edited by spartaxoxo on February 28, 2023 3:55AM0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I would agree but unless they keys accurate and consistent records (or someone did) prior to the patch the information would be meaningless due to lack of anything to compare it to.
But the point is accurate. It’s easy to think something was changed based on a small sampling and especially perception which tends to be inaccurate.
I’m at work and don’t have time to find it but there is a study here that someone did recording the results of a large number of forced lock attempts and comparing their findings to ZOS’s listed odds. There were indeed some discrepancies.
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SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »You would definitely have to be doing it for hours and hours one end to hit a thousand though, as you have pointed out.
I didn't even factor in competition from other players and respawn times.PCNA0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »You would definitely have to be doing it for hours and hours one end to hit a thousand though, as you have pointed out.
I didn't even factor in competition from other players and respawn times.
Respawn times are not static, and do vary from zone to zone. I can think of one particular delve where the chest (and node) respawn rate is unusually fast and you can open them continually without waiting, other than having to take time to kill the respawning monsters.
There are also mysterious cooldowns that ZOS refuses to discuss, that can be avoided by rotating different characters in and out. Even though chests and safeboxes are not instanced, there are other factors in play besides pure RNG. Staying on one character while farming is not the most productive method.1 -
DreamyLu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why force locks? Picking is simple and quick.
A while ago, I was picking all chests and thinking like you. Then, a few months ago, my laziness won and I started forcing locks. It was a discovery and I completely changed my mind: believe me, i's by far easier and faster!
It seems to be pure RNG to me. I force lock about 5 to 10 chests per day. There are days where I get broken lockpicks several times on simple chests and other days, I get all chests on first forcing, including advanced and master ones... There really seems to be no filter of any sort.
I'm out of my mind, feel free to leave a message... PC/NA1 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no way to know without checking the code because apparent streaks of bad or good results for a character also can and will happen with unbiased and properly used rng. Testing huge number of cases just shows if there is bias, not if there are streaks or not.3 -
BaalMelqartu✭✭✭✭I can't dismiss OP out of hand. People have done spreadsheets and all that jazz for "double harvesting" CP when gathering nodes and it is always less than what the tooltip says. I also don't like when people run with anecdotal evidence but since the tooltips are wrong on other things, I just don't know. I stopped forcing locks specifically because it says I have a 60% chance but I fail most of the time. The only time it annoys me to have given it up is when I am grouped and in voice chat with people so I have extra distractions when I'm wiggling that lil lockpick.1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's long been known that one needs to delay a few seconds before attempting to force a lock, or else you fail.
I got the feeling recently that my rhythm as to when to force had become a little too fast. Perhaps the necessary delay increased slightly.1 -
BaalMelqartu✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »It's long been known that one needs to delay a few seconds before attempting to force a lock, or else you fail.
I got the feeling recently that my rhythm as to when to force had become a little too fast. Perhaps the necessary delay increased slightly.
I just don't know what to make of this. Since I joined in late 2001, it is really hard to find concrete evidence about a LOT of things. Old thread info is outdated, speculation threads abound, then there is the ole "it has long been known" stanza that is usually spread by people who have been in the game far longer than myself but I cannot find any actual substantiation to the claims. It's all really annoying to new/newish players that really TRY to learn the game but in even trying to do so, aren't sure they are learning anything correctly at all.1 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »It's long been known that one needs to delay a few seconds before attempting to force a lock, or else you fail.
I got the feeling recently that my rhythm as to when to force had become a little too fast. Perhaps the necessary delay increased slightly.
I haven't noticed this at all, and I've forced many, many locks over the years. I press E and then R as fast as my fingers will let me. And as others have mentioned, sometimes you can fail six times in a row on a simple lock, or pop 10 master locks in a row on the first try.6 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
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I would agree but unless they keys accurate and consistent records (or someone did) prior to the patch the information would be meaningless due to lack of anything to compare it to.
But the point is accurate. It’s easy to think something was changed based on a small sampling and especially perception which tends to be inaccurate.
I’m at work and don’t have time to find it but there is a study here that someone did recording the results of a large number of forced lock attempts and comparing their findings to ZOS’s listed odds. There were indeed some discrepancies.
I have never said that the actual results from lock picking was in-line with the chance Zenimax lists in the tooltips for forcing a lock. That is not in question here and not what the OP thinks changed.
So those discrepancies are not relevant to my comment or the OP statement in this thread.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
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I would agree but unless they keys accurate and consistent records (or someone did) prior to the patch the information would be meaningless due to lack of anything to compare it to.
But the point is accurate. It’s easy to think something was changed based on a small sampling and especially perception which tends to be inaccurate.
Would this help?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/413835/double-checking-zos-force-lock-percentages
TL;DR
Back in 2018, I found no discrepancies with overland chests. Rittings found discrepancies with Thieves Guild Heist chests.
I'd really love to see some empirical data here, because I'm really hoping to not go chest-hunting again.0