Removal of Trifecta Achievements

Digiman · February 2023

Decrease difficulty of Endgame Content to make game more Accessible

They really need to make this game more accessible for PuG's some dungeons just penalize you for not having voice chat in a game that should of launched with voice chat.

Digiman · February 2023

Decrease difficulty of Endgame Content to make game more Accessible

[snip] Lets face it when you need to pay for an achievement run you have a busted game.

[edited for baiting]

Soarora · February 2023

Digiman wrote: »

They really need to make this game more accessible for PuG's some dungeons just penalize you for not having voice chat in a game that should of launched with voice chat.

What dungeons? I don’t see a point in vc for any of the dungeons on vet and the argument hardly works for HM. People say vc is required for LoM HM, it’s not. I’ve done trifectas without vc too. I cant think of a single dungeon case even in terms of trifecta that absolutely requires vc.

And no I’m not a “try hard” nor do I sell carries.

Tyralbin · February 2023

There is one other issue with the change everything I don't like issue.

Those that do like it and play the game for end game content will just leave. The more variety there is the bigger the player base and the better the game is doing in the eyes of the new owners. One thing we don't want for for said owners to become disillusioned with ESO.

I run a guild and I don't know anybody that likes or plays every aspect of the game. Their just isn't enough time in the day.

If I don't like an aspect of the game I stay away from it.

colossalvoids · February 2023

Digiman wrote: »

Lets face it when you need to pay for an achievement run you have a busted game.

You need to? Just play the game, it's all there. The only "problem" is that a big chunk of playerbase aren't willing to put any effort or don't even care to, so it's easier for them to go another route.

The_Titan_Tim · February 2023

Grant Trifecta Achievement Individually (For Player, not the Group)

colossalvoids wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Lets face it when you need to pay for an achievement run you have a busted game.

You need to? Just play the game, it's all there. The only "problem" is that a big chunk of playerbase aren't willing to put any effort or don't even care to, so it's easier for them to go another route.

Can you blame them? I’ve provided countless carries through content for free, and one of the most common things brought up in discussions is how horrible of an experience the carry has had trying to get into difficult content, and that I was the first person to give them a shot.

It’s not a lack of effort, it’s a lack of instruction, and a lack of acceptance. High functioning PvE guilds are tribal, and extremely exclusive, and I mean why wouldn’t they be? There’s no incentive for us other than personal satisfaction in helping new players.

Every time you help someone it’s a gamble though as it’s up in the air whether they will even be playing the game in a month, then all that time you spent trying to tutor them was absolutely wasted landing you at a net loss of time and in-game resources.

There needs to be more incentive to bring players along, and knocking out some of the punishment associated with bringing new ones in, would be a good start in the right direction.

Shihp00 · February 2023

No way hAHa

Zastrix · February 2023

Digiman wrote: »

[snip] Lets face it when you need to pay for an achievement run you have a busted game.

If it's too hard just play on normal or standard vet. Hardmode content is made to be hard and not cheesy. It makes absolutely zero sense to lower the difficulty so pugs could do it. Pugs. Trifectas are made for groups who are pre-organized, have tactics and communication.

If you want to call me a tryhard because I enjoy the game, enjoy to learn it, to be competent and be a great team member then sure. Call me a tryhard because you can't get an achievement with a HA Oakensoul sorc build with mothers sorrow.

[edited to remove quote]

Zastrix · February 2023

Soarora wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

They really need to make this game more accessible for PuG's some dungeons just penalize you for not having voice chat in a game that should of launched with voice chat.

What dungeons? I don’t see a point in vc for any of the dungeons on vet and the argument hardly works for HM. People say vc is required for LoM HM, it’s not. I’ve done trifectas without vc too. I cant think of a single dungeon case even in terms of trifecta that absolutely requires vc.

And no I’m not a “try hard” nor do I sell carries.

The only one I think you would need voice is maybe maarselok as it can take a lot of time in a crutch to write/read messages to see what pad. It's doable without voice but isn't worth it imho.

bzz86 · February 2023

There should be one more option - "Dont care - leave it as it is".

Amottica · February 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Lets face it when you need to pay for an achievement run you have a busted game.

You need to? Just play the game, it's all there. The only "problem" is that a big chunk of playerbase aren't willing to put any effort or don't even care to, so it's easier for them to go another route.

Can you blame them?
I’ve provided countless carries through content for free, and one of the most common things brought up in discussions is how horrible of an experience the carry has had trying to get into difficult content, and that I was the first person to give them a shot.

It’s not a lack of effort, it’s a lack of instruction, and a lack of acceptance. High functioning PvE guilds are tribal, and extremely exclusive, and I mean why wouldn’t they be? There’s no incentive for us other than personal satisfaction in helping new players.

Every time you help someone it’s a gamble though as it’s up in the air whether they will even be playing the game in a month, then all that time you spent trying to tutor them was absolutely wasted landing you at a net loss of time and in-game resources.

There needs to be more incentive to bring players along, and knocking out some of the punishment associated with bringing new ones in, would be a good start in the right direction.

It is a choice. Many of us choose to work towards getting the achievements and do get them. I do not hold anything against players who do not want to put the effort in as we all have different interests in the game. However, I would not advocate making any of this easier to obtain as it is proven time and time again that the achievements are achievable.

colossalvoids · February 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Lets face it when you need to pay for an achievement run you have a busted game.

You need to? Just play the game, it's all there. The only "problem" is that a big chunk of playerbase aren't willing to put any effort or don't even care to, so it's easier for them to go another route.

Can you blame them? I’ve provided countless carries through content for free, and one of the most common things brought up in discussions is how horrible of an experience the carry has had trying to get into difficult content, and that I was the first person to give them a shot.

It’s not a lack of effort, it’s a lack of instruction, and a lack of acceptance. High functioning PvE guilds are tribal, and extremely exclusive, and I mean why wouldn’t they be? There’s no incentive for us other than personal satisfaction in helping new players.

Every time you help someone it’s a gamble though as it’s up in the air whether they will even be playing the game in a month, then all that time you spent trying to tutor them was absolutely wasted landing you at a net loss of time and in-game resources.

There needs to be more incentive to bring players along, and knocking out some of the punishment associated with bringing new ones in, would be a good start in the right direction.

Can't blame anyone, as both parties aren't creating issues but the company does.

I've been in such position also, but I'd not put the blame to others for not taking someone in their group, as any social interaction it takes two parties to dance. Lots of folks are scared because forums or YouTube told them about elitists and scary progressions, how people are toxic to each other or have anger management issues if playing on higher level, not because they even had experience themselves.

But to the topic I was going about in that comment it's how some aren't even interested in said raiding etc., they are more into trading for example and buying a carry for a cosmetic reward is more than reasonable rather than enduring something they consider painful or boring. It's not like they need a carry, but they can go this route if pleased so. If they're into actually getting it themselves there are possibilities laying around, it's just most convenient way for them, not the one they're forced into.

As for incentive I pretty much doubt making pugs trifecta achievable for the most would make the game a good service in a long run. Less drastic changes, less balancing out identities or performance issues slashing population in half every single drop would make scene more alive again. I still remember when finding a group to raid wasn't a mythic level effort but an ordinary thing in Craglorn pug after successful run, but things happened since and atmosphere was lost. The game isn't stable enough to commit like back then again. And even than when game's audience changed (players replaced with quantity, not necessarily quality) pretty drastically I'm not sure it's achievable anymore.

rpa · February 2023

I do not trifecta (and with my current connection I could not if I had the build and skill for it) but It's a challenging group thing I might want to do some year when I've done the easier stuff. Taking that away or nerfing it would be a loss.

endgamesmug · February 2023

I do that stuff with friends sometimes we get it sometimes not no biggie, i enjoy the action not the thing at the end unusually it seems. The difficulty isnt the issue or atleast the main issue its competitive culture within the raiding scene, its not pleasant sure but its natural and its always gonna be around. I like the idea of making friends with shared interests and goals, if you find that in a professional setting like a raiding guild then good for you not my thing though.

Brrrofski · February 2023

They're for people who can do that stuff.

That's fine.

Not every part of the game has to be for everyone.

Which includes me. I don't have the time nor patience to work with 11 other people do that stuff. I log on, PvP for an hour by myself and log off. That's all the time I have for these days.

There are normal modes of stuff so people can still experience content and get gear. So nobody is being left out.

Amottica · February 2023

Digiman wrote: »

They really need to make this game more accessible for PuG's some dungeons just penalize you for not having voice chat in a game that should of launched with voice chat.

The game should not be balanced for pugs and there is nothing stopping players from joining in voice chat other than choosing not to. In more than one MMORPG I have had pugs via the dungeon finder suggest voip when the dungeon was particularly challenging.

beer781993 · February 2023

I got GH, DB, IR, GS + all dungeon trifectas in 1 year on Ps5. It's already a lot easier than it was. You PC guys shouldn't whine because with that addons it's even easier.

The only challenge at the moment are vrg PB and vdsr SB. When the new trial comes the old ones will also be easier.

Better get into the game and start learning instead of taking away the challenge, fun and motivation of others to play. Start with dungeon trifectas, improve your damage, learn the basics and watch PoVs. Progress all Trial hardmodes then find a trifecta progressing guild with motivated people.

High damage in Raids is also easy to achieve. Medium armor is op there.

If you don't want to do the work you can always play on normal difficulty.

beer781993 · February 2023

Also I don't get that stressing out and chilling arguments. Just don't raid if you want to chill. Get into the more casual aspect of the game.

What's the point of handing everything to everyone? What will you do after completing it?
Drop the game I guess....

Not the Title, not the mount but the way there is the reward. Seeing the progress you make is the motivation.

Look at yourself not your mates. Just spamming shield, dodging all day or pressing heal just that you survive isn't the way. Keep your uptimes and do damage in every situation while playing mechanics.

If you don't have time then that's on you. There are enough relaxing games out there.

Soarora · February 2023

Zastrix wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

They really need to make this game more accessible for PuG's some dungeons just penalize you for not having voice chat in a game that should of launched with voice chat.

What dungeons? I don’t see a point in vc for any of the dungeons on vet and the argument hardly works for HM. People say vc is required for LoM HM, it’s not. I’ve done trifectas without vc too. I cant think of a single dungeon case even in terms of trifecta that absolutely requires vc.

And no I’m not a “try hard” nor do I sell carries.

The only one I think you would need voice is maybe maarselok as it can take a lot of time in a crutch to write/read messages to see what pad. It's doable without voice but isn't worth it imho.

Depends on the people in the group and their preferences. I much prefer the typing method. In fact, for my trifecta 2/3 of us typed the number.

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Lets face it when you need to pay for an achievement run you have a busted game.

You need to? Just play the game, it's all there. The only "problem" is that a big chunk of playerbase aren't willing to put any effort or don't even care to, so it's easier for them to go another route.

Can you blame them? I’ve provided countless carries through content for free, and one of the most common things brought up in discussions is how horrible of an experience the carry has had trying to get into difficult content, and that I was the first person to give them a shot.

It’s not a lack of effort, it’s a lack of instruction, and a lack of acceptance. High functioning PvE guilds are tribal, and extremely exclusive, and I mean why wouldn’t they be? There’s no incentive for us other than personal satisfaction in helping new players.

Every time you help someone it’s a gamble though as it’s up in the air whether they will even be playing the game in a month, then all that time you spent trying to tutor them was absolutely wasted landing you at a net loss of time and in-game resources.

There needs to be more incentive to bring players along, and knocking out some of the punishment associated with bringing new ones in, would be a good start in the right direction.

Trifectas aren’t for new players. There is a progression. For dungeons: normal, vet, HM, Challenger, tri. For trials: normal, vet, HM, tri. No one should be skipping straight to tri so changing the trifecta achievements in the name of new players makes no sense.
And PvE endgame is really not that hard to get into. People just need to find the correct guild for them and be basically prepared. Look for a trial training guild rather than a non-training guild, ask questions, join training runs, etc. Be able to preform your role decently enough and can try vet dungeons. If group fails, you know what to work on. Of course, people will be frustrated, but it’s just a part of progression. There are people who will give setup suggestions, even make gear for players struggling in vet dlc.

Amottica · February 2023

Soarora wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Lets face it when you need to pay for an achievement run you have a busted game.

You need to? Just play the game, it's all there. The only "problem" is that a big chunk of playerbase aren't willing to put any effort or don't even care to, so it's easier for them to go another route.

Can you blame them? I’ve provided countless carries through content for free, and one of the most common things brought up in discussions is how horrible of an experience the carry has had trying to get into difficult content, and that I was the first person to give them a shot.

It’s not a lack of effort, it’s a lack of instruction, and a lack of acceptance. High functioning PvE guilds are tribal, and extremely exclusive, and I mean why wouldn’t they be? There’s no incentive for us other than personal satisfaction in helping new players.

Every time you help someone it’s a gamble though as it’s up in the air whether they will even be playing the game in a month, then all that time you spent trying to tutor them was absolutely wasted landing you at a net loss of time and in-game resources.

There needs to be more incentive to bring players along, and knocking out some of the punishment associated with bringing new ones in, would be a good start in the right direction.

Trifectas aren’t for new players. There is a progression. For dungeons: normal, vet, HM, Challenger, tri. For trials: normal, vet, HM, tri. No one should be skipping straight to tri so changing the trifecta achievements in the name of new players makes no sense.
And PvE endgame is really not that hard to get into. People just need to find the correct guild for them and be basically prepared. Look for a trial training guild rather than a non-training guild, ask questions, join training runs, etc. Be able to preform your role decently enough and can try vet dungeons. If group fails, you know what to work on. Of course, people will be frustrated, but it’s just a part of progression. There are people who will give setup suggestions, even make gear for players struggling in vet dlc.

Exactly in all areas.

The challenging content in the game should not be balanced for new/inexperienced players nor should they be balanced for pugs. The most challenging achievements be a goal (and subsequent reward) are their for players who choose to put the time and effort into raising the bar of their gameplay.

And so true about finding the guild that it right for the player. Taking the time to find the guild that is a good fit is one of the best investments of time a player can make. A guild that is the right fit will not only lead to much more enjoyable runs in group content but also do so much more to elevate a player than running with pugs could ever do.

And so true that players who are interested in improving should be open to suggestions with their build, rotation, and how to improve with mechanics.

With that, we all have different goals and one size does not fit all. It is why we have a normal, vet, and vet HM version of the group content.

npuk · February 2023

Voting for the leave as is, you really should have added that as an option.

Reverb · February 2023

Biased poll is biased. I’m also casting a vote for the missing option to leave it the way it is.

me_ming · February 2023

Chevaliemew wrote: »

Without room for error progressions often last months and half of them won't reach designated goals, especially the more demanding trials. GS or RG Trifecta progressions are often turning out to be failing HM objectives to begin with. What signals that content is very demanding, few can flawlessly perform therefore greatly diminishing accessibility for larger groups of players.

I really wish people stop thinking that everything in this game should be achieved after a few days of doing something. When the only trials in the game were the craglorn trials, groups would spend months just trying to beat Manticora. It was frustrating at times, but people kept doing it. You never had anyone in the forums whine about it. And mind you, back then you can only do it with groups within your alliance and with only 72 deaths, after 72 you restart the whole instance.

There's no sense of achieving anything when you know that other people got that achievement and they really had to work hard for it, and you just got it because the devs made content easier because someone in the forums whined.

ZOS_GregoryV · February 2023

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we would like to remind everyone that Flaming is a violation of the Community Rules, and is stated as follows:

Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

Moving forward, we do ask that all posts please be kept withing the rules. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Somber97866 · February 2023

I didn't vote because there was an option to just leave it the way it is! There's some things that need to be changed but this is definitely not one of them in my opinion. It doesn't change anything if you never completed a trifecta or not. Don't get me wrong I mean yes good Brandon writes and all that but it doesn't like keep you from getting anything it may like allow somebody to be chosen over you for a trial group but with so many child groups out there you can find one without having trifectas done. I'm one of those guys. I hit over 100k DPS and I don't think I've ever done a trifecta. And I had no problems getting on any trial groups. Plus do you even get anything for doing trifectas like gear or mats or anything like that? It's really just bragging rights ain't it. maybe a skin or two? One special kind of Mount? Look they seem to be very hard to do. I give total kudos and hands down to all the people that do it. I salute you all with your trifectas. But I never felt like I was missing out on any part of the game or on any kind of special prizes or any of that stuff by not having ever done one. There's so many other things in this game they need to be focused on other than worrying about trifectas in my opinion

Civilian_Bystander · February 2023

Just leave Trifectas alone. Just don't score push if it's too stressful for you; it's not for everyone.

Eri_86 · February 2023

[snip] LEAVE IT AS IT IS.

[edited for rude/insulting comment]

Cayr · February 2023

I don't have the time or the patience to PvP to get the PvP achievements, please remove PvP from the game. /s

I find it extremely selfish to argue that just because some people don't enjoy progging endgame achievements (though we all know that's fishing and Murkmire dailies, tbh) and what that entails (i.e. the effort it requires) nobody should be able to enjoy it. Achievements are called achievements for a reason. You also have to spend a considerable amount of time to get fishing and questing achievements, but that doesn't mean they need to be removed. Difficulty levels and achievements are not content. The instance and gameplay is the content, and that is currently already very accessible. Difficulty levels are optional, and their whole point is to make it more difficult if you so choose. But just because it's there doesn't mean you're obligated to do it. It's okay to like and enjoy different kinds of gameplay. This game has so much different content for every level of skill, different levels of availability time-wise, etc. Arguing that trifecta achievements should be removed or made easier because you want the same reward for less effort would be just as stupid as someone trying to argue that Normal difficulty content should be removed because it's too easy and not interesting to them.

Needless to say the poll is incredibly dishonest and you know it. The achievements and difficulty is fine as is. While bugs affecting trifecta runs are annoying, that's something that should be fixed by targeting those specific bugs, not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and if your point is really to draw attention to the bugs, you're doing that goal a disservice and undermining your credibility by leaving out the option for people to disagree with you.

Amottica · February 2023

Chevaliemew wrote: »

You seem to lose focus. What I was trying to give idea of how taxing trial trifecta is mostly due to Game not working properly. It often prolongs progressions by weeks. There is not way of having your death forgiven if you are dying due to the bug and whole groups pays for it. As mentioned we are only people and by default we are selfish. What you see is your own perspective. But there are also people whose job depends on delegations in certain seasons greatly diminishing ability to participate in the progression for the whole duration. Then what? You reprog with another group? It obviosly takes months again and again. Most people don't have this kind of time to play constantly for 4-5 months to finally overcome bugs and minor mistakes.

@Chevaliemew

We are not losing focus at all. Players are achieving the trifectas in dungeons and significantly more difficult trials. That lone says nothing needs to be changed which is an option that is conspicuously left out of the poll.

The majority of the time a failure to obtain such an objective comes down to a mistake by one or more players or players that are learning the fights. For some groups, it will take longer to learn the fights so they can do it well enough while more experienced groups will progress faster. That is working as intended.

mochizx · February 2023

Why would people constantly asking for less contents/rewards while paying for same x amount of money?! just like the forum post I saw before, that person suggested the potential to remove all classes and replace it with a 'free-to-build-whatever' class?!
I personally would agree on adding additional achievements so that not only it will offer extra rewards like cosmetics/titles etc., but also serve as stepping stones to give people to more incentive to progress harder contents.