Removal of Trifecta Achievements

Chevaliemew

In order to avoid any misunderstandings. Trifecta achievements are granted for completing Trial/Dungeon on HM, in a limited amount of time without a single group's member death. 
The Concept itself isn't bad and the existence of said achievement is motivating to improve oneself. Although it often happens to be an extremely stressful and lengthy endeavour.

The biggest issue in the equation is obviously poor game's performance, crashes and bugs not allowing for a smooth raiding experience. There is only so much you can blame on the player's connection and hardware. More often than not, the game just doesn't work. Think we have experienced it all. Crashes in situations where one's connection was fine. Recent flavour of the month were sudden drops in game's performance for certain people even though everything was fine in other titles and speedtests. And those are just general "technical" problems. Those are the main reasons for raids being called off before established raid times. 
Every trial has its own set of bugs. Sometimes you need to adjust to the "feature", other times it's just unavoidable and you hope it won't happen in your perfect run. Yes, the concept of certain mechanics is great but often implemented poorly causing accidental deaths that shouldn't take place, forcing the group to reset. Things like taunted thrash add suddenly doing 180 to erase one of the DDs or synergy mechanic not working. On top of that, tanks have to deal with global features like Block Bug. Every new update brings new changes and what comes with it: new bugs. Balance changes often require re-adjustment and even whole re-progressions what is not doing us any favours either.

The toughest part of Trifecta is the No-Death part, which is not individual but group reward. It means that the other 11 people must perform flawlessly without random issue out of their control. But at the end of the day, we are just people and potential mistakes are not being forgiven by the game. Without room for error progressions often last months and half of them won't reach designated goals, especially the more demanding trials. GS or RG Trifecta progressions are often turning out to be failing HM objectives to begin with. What signals that content is very demanding, few can flawlessly perform therefore greatly diminishing accessibility for larger groups of players.
Getting 12 well performing people is often a logistical nightmare also considering frequent need for replacements. Rotation of people occurs due to changes in their real life, allowing for playing for a certain amount of time only and for so long. Spending +/- 5 months, a few days a week in one trial is far from our dream.

Stress factor is the other big thing. Raiding playerbase is mostly made of working class people. Struggling from day to day so we can chill a bit in the evenings in hope to relieve some stress. But what would you say for stressing out even more in a raiding environment? Because that's what often most of us feel after an hour of unsuccessful runs ruined by minor mistake or game's shenanigans. 
Now, imagine placing yourself in the shoes of a new player who is willing to become a veteran raider hoping to get all the Trifectas eventually. If you are good enough to become a member of a Score Pushing group, it shouldn't take that long. But in case of being even slightly limited by hardware, connection or dexterity you are having a really long journey lasting months per progression. Having 7 of such to catch up with the prospect of another on the horizon is really daunting. 

Achievements should be in reach of even an average player for whom trial trifectas are far from. Therefore I propose to remove Trifecta achievements, leaving just the Challenger (like the first iteration of dungeons CoS, RoM, FH, BF and trial MoL). Keeping the more popular title as the main reward. The most challenging part will still be the No-Death but without other requirements would allow for a more diverse approach in setups and tactics. Splitting progression into 2/3 for respective achievements. That's probably also the easiest and the least work consuming way of releasing those tensions. As an alternative you could also categorize those as individual achievements, making it more accessible. Although that could lead to an increase of toxicity among players. The other idea would be to allow for certain amount of deaths to be forgiven and still grant the Achievement. But is it a flawless run at this point? The perfect solution would be fixing the game but how likely is that?

WrathOfInnos

Where's the option for none of these?

Trifectas are the only challenging part of ESO. They require practice and teamwork, often taking several months to complete. If they were removed, made easier, or allowed some deaths, then they would be completed within a week of new content being released. For trials especially this would leave top groups with nothing to work toward the remaining 51 weeks of the year.

I agree with fixing the game. We had a DSR last weekend where 10/12 players disconnected at the same time, then had a login queue to get back in.

I'd also support adding additional achievements for things like personal trifecta, or non-HM no death speed run. Maybe throw in some unique cosmetics and titles for these as well. Stepping stones of victory along the way are a good thing, removing the reward for perfection is not.

thorwyn

Where is the "Leave it as it is" option?
If it is too stressful, don't do it. Noone is forcing you to run for Godslayer if you don't want to. Removing the challenge for those people who DO want to improve and progress in an organized group is just ridiculous.

zaria

thorwyn wrote: »

Where is the "Leave it as it is" option?
If it is too stressful, don't do it. Noone is forcing you to run for Godslayer if you don't want to. Removing the challenge for those people who DO want to improve and progress in an organized group is just ridiculous.

This, the only reward is an title and perhaps a skin or similar.

Agenericname

Another vote for leave as is.

SpacemanSpiff1

leave them as is

Tasvori

No option for to leave it as it is? They are frustrating, time consuming and not at all easy to get. That is the point. My only wish is the new dungeon trifectas have more skins and personalities as rewards. Those are the shiny that make the suffering worth it to me, not a title.

MudcrabAttack

I’d rather go the opposite direction, bring in skins and mounts. A trifecta is a thing to celebrate, it’s hard work and there had better be something amazing as a reward at the end of it all rather than a title.

It’s true that there are times when the server is awful and the group knows they haven’t got any chance that night, but I can’t imagine cutting out trifectas just because of server performance.

There’s a big difference between score pushing and trifecta. Trifecta groups aren’t in such a big rush and willing to invest time to prog, accept some level of learning curve, permit diverse builds because you don’t really need bleeding edge dps, adjust builds and perfect each boss fight to fit the needs of the group to improve the odds of no death. They may be willing to build up defense as a trade off to DPS, and at some point they’re at a level where each person can do the whole thing with their eyes closed and the primary cause for failure is system disconnects and lag spikes. It takes a lot of patience to get it, but I think making the rewards nice for a change is the way to go rather than taking away the trifecta

pelle412

Leave them as-is, but by all means do add meaningful rewards to achieving such things.

Melivar

Not a good poll if leaving things as is not available as a choice

I_killed_Vivec

1. I dislike the "It's too difficult, make it easier for me... but I still want the same reward" culture.

2. Are you sure it was the game and not your own performance that caused you (but not the rest of the team) to wipe?

3. I really dislike the idea that "Achievements should be in reach of even an average player". I'm sorry, how is it an achievement?

I'm not hardcore, I'm not even good, I'll never get a trifecta... but what's the point of the game if you don't celebrate those that can?

Paramedicus

some guy wanted to remove antiquities, because it 'takes too much time to collect them all". Now you want to remove trifectas.

What is it with you guys, that you need to collect/achieve everything in the game that is designed in a way to make it (practically) impossible?

ForzaRammer

Remove Trifecta Achievements from Dungeons, Arenas and Trials

Get rid of feature instead of fix bug, what a great idea

ArchangelIsraphel

Where is the option for no?

I don't even have half of the trifectas in this game yet, although I do have a few, and I don't want this to happen. Even if I never get the others due to the difficulty, I'm ok with that. I treasure the ones I do have because I achieved them by working hard with good friends.

I don't believe in devaluing, reducing, or removing the achievements of others just so that I can have something I might not be able to get otherwise. Yes, there are technical issues in the game, and those should be resolved. But not at the cost of removing the actual goals of players who want to reach for them.

Most of all, I don't want my achievements, especially trifectas, handed to me on a silver platter just because someone else decided it was too hard for me to accomplish due to sone issue, technical or otherwise. I'll decide that for myself, and I'll reach for it when I'm prepared to- and if I'm never prepared or willing to put the work in, then those achievements will remain unreachable to me, as they should be if I'm not prepared to do what it takes.

The people who do manage to get these achievements are skilled, and I wouldn't dream of belittling their accomplishments by asking to have what they have, but with less work. No thank you.

I've done a lot of hard things that I thought were impossible in this game by pushing myself, and reaching for my goals. I know the euphoria of finally doing what one has set out to accomplish. I won't take that from anyone who sets themselves towards achieving it, even if it means I might not get there myself.

But who knows. Maybe, one day.

Paramedicus

BTW where is the option to add possibility to buy trifectas with crowns? People pay for carry runs for long time already.

Cazador

This change being suggested is not necessary. It's a no from me.

karthrag_inak

Leave them alone

notyuu

Baised poll is baised and lacks a much needed "leave them as is" option

The_Titan_Tim

Grant Trifecta Achievement Individually (For Player, not the Group)

Having Trifectas doesn’t hurt anything, but I do agree they should be focused on driving player mastery. If a support fails on hard mode, generally a group will wipe, if a DD get’s killed, you revive and keep going, it creates an extremely anti-social aspect to raiding when having to cull players.

It’s also unrealistic to expect 11 other players to have the same values as you; let alone maintain a stable performance on a game riddled with desync problems.

Finally, I’m all for advocating player mastery over tribal expectations, if you master the trial, and perform masterfully, not dying, completing the hard mode within the given time, you should be rewarded, it’s that simple.

Nord_Raseri

I would rather bugs, performance, and positional desyncs to be fixed. Trifectas should remain. (I have 0 dlc trial trifectas, but would like to get there)

kargen27

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Having Trifectas doesn’t hurt anything, but I do agree they should be focused on driving player mastery. If a support fails on hard mode, generally a group will wipe, if a DD get’s killed, you revive and keep going, it creates an extremely anti-social aspect to raiding when having to cull players.

It’s also unrealistic to expect 11 other players to have the same values as you; let alone maintain a stable performance on a game riddled with desync problems.

Finally, I’m all for advocating player mastery over tribal expectations, if you master the trial, and perform masterfully, not dying, completing the hard mode within the given time, you should be rewarded, it’s that simple.

My vote would be to leave it alone.

Trials being a group thing I see no way to give out hard mode achievements to individuals. If you receive one heal you failed to accomplish the goal as an individual. If the tank kept the boss off you you failed to accomplish the goal as an individual. If another DPS preformed a certain mechanic (such as destroying reef hearts in Dreadsail) then you failed to accomplish the goal as an individual.

hrothbern

Grant Trifecta Achievement Individually (For Player, not the Group)

@Chevaliemew

Be so kind and wise to add in the poll the option to leave everything as it is

That way the poll becomes a lot more meaningful

DMuehlhausen

Most Bias poll I've seen...

How about No, they are perfectly fine I just want it to be easier. option...

Sorry you struggle with them, but there has to be content the separates players that put in the time.

Aislinna

Yet another "I don't want to do something in the game, please remove it so nobody can do it" thread.

Marcus684

I've done zero trifectas, have no intention of doing any, but also see no need to remove them or nerf them. Some people just need to learn to accept that some achievements may be out of their reach if they won't take the steps necessary to get them. I'd love to get the PvP Emperor achievement, but I'm not willing to put in the effort to earn it nor shell out the gold to buy it, so I've just had to accept that I'll never get it.

CE_Nex

I'd like it if they would ADD Trifectas to the Craglorns and vMoL.

It would make more people play them and give newer raiders a wider pool of experienced players to raid with for the entry point trials, instead of all the experienced players almost exclusively pushing Rockgrove and DreadSail Reef Trifectas. Which, you know, are so far out of reach for newer players since this game does an atrocious job of actually teaching combat and trial & dungeon mechanics.

Ksariyu

Gonna have to agree with most people here. I have 0 trial trifectas personally and that's okay. Not every player needs or wants it, but for those who do it's a nice thing to be able to work towards.

The game being broken is its own issue and needs to be fixed, but hopefully that'll actually happen some day and it'll be at least a little less stressful to get such achievements. Until then (and even after), I'd encourage people to not stress it so much. It's a game, and not even a competitive one at that. Just have fun.

spartaxoxo

Grant Trifecta Achievement Individually (For Player, not the Group)

I think they should leave them as is but also would be okay if it was turned individual. If the group isn't doing something really necessary if will wipe. If only 1 person died the entire time, because the group as whole was doing what they were supposed to be doing, then that might be down to a tech issue, an individual refusing to listen, or just performing poorly. Either way, they wouldn't impact a group that not only was doing what it was supposed to be doing but recovered well enough that there was no wipe even down a player. I could accept that.

But, I wouldn't think any of these other options would be appropriate. It's okay to give stuff to do for people who can perform exceptionally well. I'd even add rewards back into trifecta beyond just titles regardless of any changes.

colossalvoids

I'd add more tifectas to older content making progress curve a bit smoother. Also adding personal trifectas to the mix would make some days less miserable when progging.

Achievements are granted for achieving something, not because you bought the game and feeling something is out of your reach for x y z reasons you found.

FakeFox

Not all content has to be for everyone. If you are not able to achieve trifectas or don't enjoy the progress, don't do them. But don't try to take them away from other players. The fact that trifecta achievements are difficult and often frustrating is what makes them rewarding. This is like me, a recreational endurance runner, demanding that Olympic medals should be removed, because I don't achieve the performance of professional athletes.

wolfie1.0.

Note: if your going to start a poll that is to change a thing. Then make sure to include at least one option to not change said thing. Otherwise said poll is biased and of no honest use. In which case the poll should be disabled.