What replacement is there for the old Mist mold? Where can I get 75% damage reduction in PvP?

Fantalior · February 2023

I think the change of Mist Form is awful, it makes the sorcerer ability with its teleportation obsolete. Now suddenly everyone can port around, which will certainly get worse with the new class. And how are you supposed to survive in PvP without a tank set? The -75% damage was such a nice devenive skill and you could toggle it on and off so quickly. Where can I get something similar in the game? What replacement is there for the old Mist mold? Where can I get 75% damage reduction in PvP?

Melzo · February 2023

The patch hasn't been released yet but there are so many complaints. This amazes me. Everyone should complain that changes rarely come, but here they complain that the sorcerer will become weaker. I don't see any argument for this. For those who need to catch up with the sorcerer, they will do it without myst form. I did a Dk build when the chain buff was working and used an attack medium to deal damage. They dealt more than Dizzying Swing. It was an interesting unique medium attack build and the sorcerers couldn't run away from me. When using mana on a streak, you spend more and more if you use a streak, but I always spent the same. I didn't have a lot of mana and regen and was still catching up with the sorcerer. So I can say with confidence that you will not run away from either the dk or the templar. And if the warden takes the skill to catch up with you, you won’t run away from him.

Nxiiety · February 2023

Fantalior wrote: »

Where can I get 75% damage reduction in PvP?

block.

Thecompton73 · February 2023

My advice would be to learn to accept that sometimes in PvP you're going to get killed. Ridiculous crutches extending TTK to infinity has led to a terribly boring meta.

LukosCreyden · February 2023

Hopefully, nowhere.

Vevvev · February 2023

Block and Dodge Roll.

Mistform will still have it's uses in PvP for mitigating damage as it'll 100% absorb 3 projectiles during the dash. Just don't try dashing through AoE or someone using melee attacks.

Caribou77 · February 2023

Yeah, unfortunately OP, I agree with the consensus here that Mist Form offered way too much mitigation for a simple toggle, and was definitely exploited by some low-minded cretins. The new version seems to diminish/compete with Magsorc's streak, which is not good for overall class balance, imo.

Get your popcorn and see how this goes, I guess.

axi · February 2023

Why would You expect for replacement to exist? Change that is happening to mist form was done so there would be no longer easily accesible 75% dmg reduction in PvP.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2023

Fantalior wrote: »

I think the change of Mist Form is awful, it makes the sorcerer ability with its teleportation obsolete.

NBs had to live through something similar during previous Vampire re-balance, where all of the sudden every class had access to on-demand invisibility via Vampire passive.

OBJnoob · February 2023

I don't know if sprinting for 4 seconds straight quite qualifies as "on demand." Now the rework to alliance health pots making them give invis? Totally a slap in NB's face.

Honestly vampire goes so well with the old-school NB stereotype I feel like every other class should be complaining. Yay now people can go full speed while crouched. Oh, here's some extra weapon damage for your guaranteed crit. Weeeeeeeee.

axi · February 2023

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Fantalior wrote: »

I think the change of Mist Form is awful, it makes the sorcerer ability with its teleportation obsolete.

NBs had to live through something similar during previous Vampire re-balance, where all of the sudden every class had access to on-demand invisibility via Vampire passive.

I wouldn't use phrase "on demand" when talking about something that requires 3 seconds of continous sprinting and going stage 4 vampire. Two completly different situations. New mist for will be way more similar to sorc's streak than vampire passive is to nb's cloak.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · February 2023

Fantalior wrote: »

Where can I get 75% damage reduction in PvP?

In PvP you can reach high levels of mitigation with Sorcerer's Bound Aegis ability. However, it's only useful on a permablock build. In addition, other classes are inherently better at blocking.

Sorcerers get 99% damage reduction in PvP with Bound Aegis and Red CP.

(except for damage over time and other non-blockable damage like Haunting Curse)

That's about the best you'll find.

Dragonlord573 · February 2023

"How are you supposed to survive."

Well it is simple, you git gud, and kill your enemies faster than they can kill you. Like it has always been. Now you actually have to get better at the game without your crutch.

Caribou77 · February 2023

DragonKrutch is the class to try if you’re really struggling in pvp. One day you will not need its considerable advantages and go back to playing a class that is challenging/dynamic and suits your playing style.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 2023

If you can't survive without Mist Form it means you were crutching on the skill.

That isn't intended to be a slight at anyone - but there are plenty of ways (especially in today's tanky meta) to have survivability, even without wearing a tanky set. 35k health, 25k ish armor, and Major Evasion are all excellent forms of passive defense that can be applied to nearly any build. Passive defense is the easiest way to increase survivability.

Active defense provides the most room to improve survivability. These are your "learn 2 play" things, like blocking, dodging, map knowledge, movement skills, buff management, etc. Knowing when to block, when to dodge, what to block, what to dodge, and how to maintain your buffs efficiently can take a squishy build and keep it alive much better than it should fare on paper.

Mist Form was far too much mitigation with no real skill or knowledge required to use it. It is a good thing that it is gone. If you want that much on demand mitigation, put on a sword and board or frost staff and learn when to block to minimize your damage taken.

Darkstorne · February 2023

It's a shame. I liked that the ability was something completely unique, channelled, not a clone of something else. But I do understand why they changed it.

I still wish they'd just looked at the damage mitigation numbers, but I speak from a PVE perspective. The 75% was deleted from PVE functionality, without any other balancing to make up for that. I'd always hoped they would rebalance to something like 20-30% DR and bump the damage a bit to compensate. That way you could build it for DPS or you could still put a build together that focused on DR if you wanted (Light of Cyrodiil set provides 15% DR while channelling, High Elves get 5% DR while channelling as a racial, you could slot Psijic Ult for the 5% DR passive, and slot Flare for the 10% DR passive). Maybe set that all up with Gaze of Sithis for an off-meta but fun alternative tank build.

I don't know, it just feels like they threw in the towel with this skill and the game lost something unique as a result.

KilianDermoth · February 2023

.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · February 2023

KilianDermoth wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Sorcerers get 99% damage reduction in PvP with Bound Aegis and Red CP.

It seems you have never heared about block mitigation cap (which is 90%).

Sorcerers have 99% total damage reduction in PvP with Bound Aegis, Blue+Red CP, Major+Minor Protection, Major+Minor Resolve, and Trial by Fire. I've permablock tanked 40+ players in Cyrodiil this way.

KilianDermoth wrote: »

And probably you have never heared about things like Frost Staves or Shields (weapon) which can provide almost the same mitigation passively (+20%) like bound aegis (+40%), especially on dragon knights (+10% = +30% passive block mitigation without doing anything) and templars (+10% = +30% for a long duration when using some templar skills). While the sorcerer have to cast a skill before he gets damage and thus needs to know beforehand when to cast and even hast to recast it every 5 seconds while a DK with a shield just has constantly +30%....

I've heard of all of these things.

Wuuffyy · February 2023

You shouldn’t be able to at all… honestly, they need to also evaluate the stage 3 passive and rework vampire actives to be a lot better.

KilianDermoth · February 2023

.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · February 2023

KilianDermoth wrote: »

I am just wondering if your opinion is really that Sorcs are overperforming?.

No, they are underperforming. I explained the history of changes here.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · February 2023

KilianDermoth wrote: »

But as we can see in your image, such builds cant even hurt an absolute squishy. 404 damage as max, probably against the most squishy player in the bunch? Thats an absolute joke.

Cutting Defense is used to proc sustain poisons on a permablock build. It's not meant to do any meaningful damage.

But I understand your point that other classes, namely DK, are designed better for blocking and that it's not ideal to run Bound Aegis on a Sorc unless you're specifically building for permablock (or PvE tanking). I thoroughly tested Bound Aegis on a Sorc healer and it's much better to Streak away than it is to block and consume stamina needed for Dark Conversion.

So I retract my previous comment above.