What replacement is there for the old Mist mold? Where can I get 75% damage reduction in PvP?

Fantalior

I think the change of Mist Form is awful, it makes the sorcerer ability with its teleportation obsolete. Now suddenly everyone can port around, which will certainly get worse with the new class. And how are you supposed to survive in PvP without a tank set? The -75% damage was such a nice devenive skill and you could toggle it on and off so quickly. Where can I get something similar in the game? What replacement is there for the old Mist mold? Where can I get 75% damage reduction in PvP?

Melzo

The patch hasn't been released yet but there are so many complaints. This amazes me. Everyone should complain that changes rarely come, but here they complain that the sorcerer will become weaker. I don't see any argument for this. For those who need to catch up with the sorcerer, they will do it without myst form. I did a Dk build when the chain buff was working and used an attack medium to deal damage. They dealt more than Dizzying Swing. It was an interesting unique medium attack build and the sorcerers couldn't run away from me. When using mana on a streak, you spend more and more if you use a streak, but I always spent the same. I didn't have a lot of mana and regen and was still catching up with the sorcerer. So I can say with confidence that you will not run away from either the dk or the templar. And if the warden takes the skill to catch up with you, you won’t run away from him.

Nxiiety

Fantalior wrote: »

Where can I get 75% damage reduction in PvP?

block.

Thecompton73

My advice would be to learn to accept that sometimes in PvP you're going to get killed. Ridiculous crutches extending TTK to infinity has led to a terribly boring meta.

LukosCreyden

Hopefully, nowhere.

Vevvev

Block and Dodge Roll.

Mistform will still have it's uses in PvP for mitigating damage as it'll 100% absorb 3 projectiles during the dash. Just don't try dashing through AoE or someone using melee attacks.

Caribou77

Yeah, unfortunately OP, I agree with the consensus here that Mist Form offered way too much mitigation for a simple toggle, and was definitely exploited by some low-minded cretins. The new version seems to diminish/compete with Magsorc's streak, which is not good for overall class balance, imo.

Get your popcorn and see how this goes, I guess.

axi

Why would You expect for replacement to exist? Change that is happening to mist form was done so there would be no longer easily accesible 75% dmg reduction in PvP.

Tommy_The_Gun

Fantalior wrote: »

I think the change of Mist Form is awful, it makes the sorcerer ability with its teleportation obsolete.

NBs had to live through something similar during previous Vampire re-balance, where all of the sudden every class had access to on-demand invisibility via Vampire passive.

OBJnoob

I don't know if sprinting for 4 seconds straight quite qualifies as "on demand." Now the rework to alliance health pots making them give invis? Totally a slap in NB's face.

Honestly vampire goes so well with the old-school NB stereotype I feel like every other class should be complaining. Yay now people can go full speed while crouched. Oh, here's some extra weapon damage for your guaranteed crit. Weeeeeeeee.

axi

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Fantalior wrote: »

I think the change of Mist Form is awful, it makes the sorcerer ability with its teleportation obsolete.

NBs had to live through something similar during previous Vampire re-balance, where all of the sudden every class had access to on-demand invisibility via Vampire passive.

I wouldn't use phrase "on demand" when talking about something that requires 3 seconds of continous sprinting and going stage 4 vampire. Two completly different situations. New mist for will be way more similar to sorc's streak than vampire passive is to nb's cloak.

SkaraMinoc

Fantalior wrote: »

Where can I get 75% damage reduction in PvP?

In PvP you can reach high levels of mitigation with Sorcerer's Bound Aegis ability. However, it's only useful on a permablock build. In addition, other classes are inherently better at blocking.

Sorcerers get 99% damage reduction in PvP with Bound Aegis and Red CP.

(except for damage over time and other non-blockable damage like Haunting Curse)

That's about the best you'll find.

Dragonlord573

"How are you supposed to survive."

Well it is simple, you git gud, and kill your enemies faster than they can kill you. Like it has always been. Now you actually have to get better at the game without your crutch.

Caribou77

DragonKrutch is the class to try if you’re really struggling in pvp. One day you will not need its considerable advantages and go back to playing a class that is challenging/dynamic and suits your playing style.

CameraBeardThePirate

If you can't survive without Mist Form it means you were crutching on the skill.

That isn't intended to be a slight at anyone - but there are plenty of ways (especially in today's tanky meta) to have survivability, even without wearing a tanky set. 35k health, 25k ish armor, and Major Evasion are all excellent forms of passive defense that can be applied to nearly any build. Passive defense is the easiest way to increase survivability.

Active defense provides the most room to improve survivability. These are your "learn 2 play" things, like blocking, dodging, map knowledge, movement skills, buff management, etc. Knowing when to block, when to dodge, what to block, what to dodge, and how to maintain your buffs efficiently can take a squishy build and keep it alive much better than it should fare on paper.

Mist Form was far too much mitigation with no real skill or knowledge required to use it. It is a good thing that it is gone. If you want that much on demand mitigation, put on a sword and board or frost staff and learn when to block to minimize your damage taken.

Darkstorne

It's a shame. I liked that the ability was something completely unique, channelled, not a clone of something else. But I do understand why they changed it.

I still wish they'd just looked at the damage mitigation numbers, but I speak from a PVE perspective. The 75% was deleted from PVE functionality, without any other balancing to make up for that. I'd always hoped they would rebalance to something like 20-30% DR and bump the damage a bit to compensate. That way you could build it for DPS or you could still put a build together that focused on DR if you wanted (Light of Cyrodiil set provides 15% DR while channelling, High Elves get 5% DR while channelling as a racial, you could slot Psijic Ult for the 5% DR passive, and slot Flare for the 10% DR passive). Maybe set that all up with Gaze of Sithis for an off-meta but fun alternative tank build.

I don't know, it just feels like they threw in the towel with this skill and the game lost something unique as a result.

KilianDermoth

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Sorcerers get 99% damage reduction in PvP with Bound Aegis and Red CP.

It seems you have never heared about block mitigation cap (which is 90%). And probably you have never heared about things like Frost Staves or Shields (weapon) which can provide almost the same mitigation passively (+20%) like bound aegis (+40%), especially on dragon knights (+10% = +30% passive block mitigation without doing anything) and templars (+10% = +30% for a long duration when using some templar skills). While the sorcerer have to cast a skill before he gets damage and thus needs to know beforehand when to cast and even hast to recast it every 5 seconds while a DK with a shield just has constantly +30%...

I guess we should nerf Sorcs, the most squishy class in pvp right now, even more? Because they can reach similar block mitigation by spamming a skill as other classes with more survivability can reach passively, thats just to good! ...

SkaraMinoc

KilianDermoth wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Sorcerers get 99% damage reduction in PvP with Bound Aegis and Red CP.

It seems you have never heared about block mitigation cap (which is 90%).

Sorcerers have 99% total damage reduction in PvP with Bound Aegis, Blue+Red CP, Major+Minor Protection, Major+Minor Resolve, and Trial by Fire. I've permablock tanked 40+ players in Cyrodiil this way.

KilianDermoth wrote: »

And probably you have never heared about things like Frost Staves or Shields (weapon) which can provide almost the same mitigation passively (+20%) like bound aegis (+40%), especially on dragon knights (+10% = +30% passive block mitigation without doing anything) and templars (+10% = +30% for a long duration when using some templar skills). While the sorcerer have to cast a skill before he gets damage and thus needs to know beforehand when to cast and even hast to recast it every 5 seconds while a DK with a shield just has constantly +30%....

I've heard of all of these things.

Wuuffyy

You shouldn’t be able to at all… honestly, they need to also evaluate the stage 3 passive and rework vampire actives to be a lot better.

KilianDermoth

@SkaraMinoc Sure you can do builds that survive almost anything but you dont need bound aegis for this. A dragonknight with a shield or frost staff would be also as unkillable, without casting any skills like bound aegis, just with passive bonusses.

The difference of 10% block mitigation (which is only about 5% block mitigation because its multiplicative with the base 50% block mitigation as far as I know) is absolute neglectible, especially if you consider that it takes a skill cast on the Sorc side compared to passive buffs the dragon knight gets anyways. You could even argue that the Sorc has less survivability because the Dragon Knight could just cast another skill to get even more mitigation than the Sorc reaches, for example by applying minor / major maim (instead of casting bound aegis) to get the same or even higher mitigation.

Further being able to reach already the same or even higher mitigation, a dragon knight could use standard of might for example to get even more mitigation and probably reset the fight by restoring all the missing health and ressources...

Sure, you can create builds that survive almost anything even on Sorcs, there is no doubt that such stuff is possible, probably on any class btw. But as we can see in your image, such builds cant even hurt an absolute squishy. 404 damage as max, probably against the most squishy player in the bunch? Thats an absolute joke.

The point is, that bound aegis itself wont allow for such high mitigation and it wont make a squishy into a tank that can take on 40+ players...

I am just wondering if your opinion is really that Sorcs are overperforming? Especially if looking at real - non tank troll - builds (which are possible on other classes, too)?

Btw. I think to prevent such scenarios / builds there should be a cap for total mitigation, no matter how it is achieved.

SkaraMinoc

KilianDermoth wrote: »

I am just wondering if your opinion is really that Sorcs are overperforming?.

No, they are underperforming. I explained the history of changes here.

SkaraMinoc

KilianDermoth wrote: »

But as we can see in your image, such builds cant even hurt an absolute squishy. 404 damage as max, probably against the most squishy player in the bunch? Thats an absolute joke.

Cutting Defense is used to proc sustain poisons on a permablock build. It's not meant to do any meaningful damage.

But I understand your point that other classes, namely DK, are designed better for blocking and that it's not ideal to run Bound Aegis on a Sorc unless you're specifically building for permablock (or PvE tanking). I thoroughly tested Bound Aegis on a Sorc healer and it's much better to Streak away than it is to block and consume stamina needed for Dark Conversion.

So I retract my previous comment above.