Add Knockback to Uppercut Morph!

Kory · August 2020

So I'm new to this game and community. I'm not familiar with the goal or agenda of the combat developers, but I had to say something about this. Sometimes an enemy npc would wind up and do the uppercut swing and launch me up in the air when unblocked. It's really strong and amusing sometimes. I'm thinking that would be great to do in return, but it turns out the player is not able to to do that. I looked it up and it turns out Uppercut was changed in 2019. Not really to fix a problem, it was just simply changed for the sake of a more dps focus for some reason. (maybe someone can explain a little more, as I didn't play this game at the time)

Can we get knockback into Uppercut again? It has one of the longer cast times than any other weapon ability, it mind as well do something more spectacular. I bet the move makes you feel strong, and it would be amusing knocking people back. Maybe add the knockback to one of the morphs?

Kory · August 2020

By the way this is what I'm talking about. This was a pvp situation. Now I've used Uppercut in pvp, and it's not easy to land, players are always moving, and the move just doesn't complete and land. Players aren't going to stand there and let you him them unfortunately lol.
But look at how satisfying that is to land! Why would the combat developers take that out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2cybFeneQs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJrlRXnsN0E
Not my videos by the way.

Everstorm · August 2020

Because you push your target out of your own range, making it a very annoying skill to use, especially in pve.
Edit: also, in group play you won't be making friends if you push targets out of reach of other melee builds and damage over time area effects.

Lord-Otto · August 2020

It was taken out because the skill did too much with it. It's a dps spammable that also works as a delayed burst skill, uninterruptable, easily accessed by any class with a very rounded skill line and with the stun, you could pull off ridiculous combos. It even had Empower in the earlier days, just wow. Under ZOS' new standards, spammables shouldn't have CCs and CCs shouldn't deal a lot damage. Dizzying still has a CC in a way with the off-balance, but I guess that's an exception to the rule.

Pinja · August 2020

Everstorm wrote: »

Because you push your target out of your own range, making it a very annoying skill to use, especially in pve.
Edit: also, in group play you won't be making friends if you push targets out of reach of other melee builds and damage over time area effects.

I do not believe this was the reason.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It was taken out because the skill did too much with it. It's a dps spammable that also works as a delayed burst skill, uninterruptable, easily accessed by any class with a very rounded skill line and with the stun, you could pull off ridiculous combos. It even had Empower in the earlier days, just wow. Under ZOS' new standards, spammables shouldn't have CCs and CCs shouldn't deal a lot damage. Dizzying still has a CC in a way with the off-balance, but I guess that's an exception to the rule.

This more so sounds like the reason.

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

It’s funny...and a little sad that some NPCs still have the old dizzy. 😢

newtinmpls · August 2020

There also used to be a nice knockback with one of the Destro staff attacks; but now they "fixed it" broke it so that you can no longer knock anyone off something.

I miss that sort of thing.

zvavi · August 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

There also used to be a nice knockback with one of the Destro staff attacks; but now they "fixed it" broke it so that you can no longer knock anyone off something.

I miss that sort of thing.

It is still there, just on the morph that deals no damage

Kory · August 2020

Everstorm wrote: »

Because you push your target out of your own range, making it a very annoying skill to use, especially in pve.
Edit: also, in group play you won't be making friends if you push targets out of reach of other melee builds and damage over time area effects.

That doesn't sound right or reasonable. Considering a bow user can use Scatter Shot that knocks targets back 8 meters at a 22 meter range. With the logic you made that would be the one that's particularly "very annoying" to other melee players. You see what I mean?
I don't see uppercut knockback as annoying the group at all.

Kory · August 2020

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It was taken out because the skill did too much with it. It's a dps spammable that also works as a delayed burst skill, uninterruptable, easily accessed by any class with a very rounded skill line and with the stun, you could pull off ridiculous combos. It even had Empower in the earlier days, just wow. Under ZOS' new standards, spammables shouldn't have CCs and CCs shouldn't deal a lot damage. Dizzying still has a CC in a way with the off-balance, but I guess that's an exception to the rule.

Oh ok, I use Dizzying Swing, but it often seems redundant, because I learned how to block and bash lol. And as you know blocking and bash at certain times will set an enemy off balance and then you can stun them.

I prefer knockback because it's separate from stun and off balance, and it seems so satisfying to use. Could be useful for countering those ambush gap closing attacks like critical strike and teleport strike in pve and pvp. Happened to my nighblade in pvp: A bow user used Scatter Shot EVERYTIME I ambushed her lol. It's a nice counter.

I think if Dizzying Swing is some-what of a crowd control then there is no hurt in giving that morph knockback. Look at the other morph (Wrecking Blow). That gives you Empower. So that morph is as you say: "a dps spammable that also works as a delayed burst skill....you could pull off ridiculous combos."

MincVinyl · August 2020

What is funny is how nobody complained about dizzy being strong until they changed onslaught for no reason. While at the same time gutted s&b and dw setups.

The knockup was perfectly fine back when it was double aim check, directional check, and a longer cast time. Nobody complained back then, actually it was kind of the opposite where you were kind of a joke to try to duel with dizzy. Then onslaught gave perfect pen, hit much harder, and didnt have a cast time so people were instantly dying after being stunned since you could get an executioner off and canceled before the receiving player could dodge.

There will always be the argument that it hurt newer players more, but do you really think players that were unable to use simple block counterplay are able to comprehend the state of offbalance on themselves/enemies?

Zos and many players never understood how to actually even build for the ability, even now zos thinks people have a hard time hitting it even though they made it have a single aim check like any other ability. They also think a short cast and snare solves the problem of "sticking" to your enemy to be able to get a hit off. When it is the other way around, having more of your own speed and consistent speed via long snare immunity was how you could use the ability easier. But that got gutted in murkmire from zos messing up by not wanting to nerf swift when it was too strong.

Kory · August 2020

So keep the cast time 0.8s and Empower effect for Uppercut's Wrecking blow morph for that delayed burst damage that you can follow up with different combination attacks (dps), and for Dizzing Swing, get that original cast time 1 second with effect of knock back and stunning for 3 seconds (Crowd control).

Artheiron · January 2023

I can understand why not works for pvp, but this needs to come back to the pve world. This was such an iconic skill, heck even one of the things sold the game to me. You know the classic scorpion wire - get over here- uppercut combo from MK series right? that exactly...

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

The name of the game is about timing your burst together and Dizzying Swing’s Off-Balance proc into a medium weave stun is wayyy better than the old Knockback; it guarantees a free hit with your ultimate after you stun them.

There’s a higher skill gap now when using it, but trust me, play around with it, it’s a lot better in its current state.

Edit: At a competitive level, burning your opponents CC immunity for free when using your hardest hitting ability is a problem, and Uppercut and Puncturing Sweep were heinous for it.

ZOS_Icy · January 2023

Greetings,

We have gone ahead and closed this thread down since it is rather old. Please keep in mind that sometimes it is better to create a new topic, instead of replying in one that was posted a while ago.

Thanks for your understanding.