Which race is getting not enough love from zenimax?

zaria · January 2023

I say Redguards,

bmnoble wrote: »

In terms of DLC and chapters, Orcs got a zone, Dark Elfs got 2 zones, High Elfs got a zone, Nords got 2 zones, Cats got a couple zones, Argonian's got a zone and a chunk of area's in Blackwood, Imperials got a chunk of area's in both Blackwood and catland, Bretons just got there turn.

So I would say its time for either the Wood Elfs or Redguards turn.

Well Bosmer got 3+ zones in the base game, orcs got none but some content but mostly as enemies, but got chapter.
Redguars still has just one zone.
Don't say imperials gotten much either.
Now I say most who done all the quest for AD is pretty feed up with Bosmers with the finishing quest in south east Reaper March rounding it up.

redlink1979 · January 2023

Redguard

Nerfed to the ground in one of the great nerfs, the Morrowind nerf.

Thecompton73 · January 2023

Jaraal wrote: »

Except Bosmer are still not as stealthy as before, four years later. In fact, Bosmer are the least stealthy race in ESO, as passive stealth detection alerts hidden enemies to our presence before any other race. Their "hidden" eye will open sooner when a Bosmer approaches.... however the Bosmer will still not be able to see them sooner. And this has been thoroughly tested and proven in other threads.

Actually if they're not a Khajiit or another Bosmer sometimes I'll be able to creep up close on other hidden NB's to where I can see them but they don't react in any way. So either their eye doesn't fully open or they ignore it because they still can't see me and think it's just being buggy.

Troodon80 · January 2023

That's a tough one to nail down. I agree with the people who are concerned about the state of Bosmer as a race where its passives are concerned, that's not what the poll is. Bosmer already have the entirity of the Valenwood included (not including Falinesti which disappeared prior to the events of ESO) in the base game. Argonians only have Shadowfen and then Murkmire, missing the entire south eastern quarter of the map which marks their actual homeland. Nords got Western Skyrim (as well as The Rift and Eastmarch in the base game), Altmer got Summerset (as well as Alinor in the base game), Dunmer got Vvardenfell (Stonefalls and Deshaan in the base game), Breton got Daggerfall (and High Isle), Khajiit got their entire homeland (Elsweyr), etc.

Out of all the races which seem to get shafted, I'd say it's Argonians, Redguards, and Imperials. Probably in that order. One could also argue that Imperials are not technically a race. Argonians, though. Their passives are a mess, same as how Bosmer got shafted in the racial balance patch. Argonian falls short at doing just about anything, and the content given so far is lacking compared to other races. Redguards get most (not all) of their homeland in Alik'r, Bangkorai, and a chunk of Craglorn, but missing the southern area which should border onto Hew's Bane (and, of course, we also get Hew's Bane), a sizeable area of their homeland is still missing. We don't see many Imperials, though we do have The Gold Coast as well as Cyrodiil and The Imperial City (but not a lot of Imperials to get to know given that it's a PvP area with players of all races fighting in the Three Banners War). They are still missing a large part of their homeland on the east and west.

Lumenn · January 2023

Argonian

Troodon80 wrote: »

That's a tough one to nail down. I agree with the people who are concerned about the state of Bosmer as a race where its passives are concerned, that's not what the poll is. Bosmer already have the entirity of the Valenwood included (not including Falinesti which disappeared prior to the events of ESO) in the base game. Argonians only have Shadowfen and then Murkmire, missing the entire south eastern quarter of the map which marks their actual homeland. Nords got Western Skyrim (as well as The Rift and Eastmarch in the base game), Altmer got Summerset (as well as Alinor in the base game), Dunmer got Vvardenfell (Stonefalls and Deshaan in the base game), Breton got Daggerfall (and High Isle), Khajiit got their entire homeland (Elsweyr), etc.

We don't see many Imperials, though we do have The Gold Coast as well as Cyrodiil and The Imperial City (but not a lot of Imperials to get to know given that it's a PvP area with players of all races fighting in the Three Banners War).

Out of all the races which seem to get shafted, I'd say it's Argonians and Imperials. One could also argue that Imperials are not technically a race. Argonians, though. Their passives are a mess, same as how Bosmer got shafted in the racial balance patch. Argonian falls short at doing just about anything, and the content given so far is lacking compared to other races.

Thank you!

Dragonlord573 · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

Bosmer for the only fact they have an outdated motif. Every other race has a variety of motifs associated to them, meanwhile Bosmer only has its race motif and Stags of Zen, and Zen is a very... Acquired taste. Give us some variety and the ancestral bosmer armor!

DeltaForce64x · January 2023

Imperial

Imperial of course, I'm ready to pay $59 for a long Imperial legion remainings story solo

Lumsdenml · January 2023

Dunmer (Darkelf)

DeltaForce64x wrote: »

Imperial of course, I'm ready to pay $59 for a long Imperial legion remainings story solo

Oh, I'd be down with a new imperial zone if it was pvp!

Tommy_The_Gun · January 2023

Argonian

Vevvev wrote: »

I know I know.... just had a whole chapter, but come on... it was really bad lol. Poor Bretons...

Yeah... it was kinda like what Blackwood was for Argonians. No lore, no major npcs, no new & interesting info about their culture...

Actually, even though it was um... bad, High Isle was still better chapter for Bretons than Blackwood was for Argonians (which was more like a imperial chapter set in a swampy area).

Cin_Vhetin · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

In addition to the previously noted areas of neglect, Bosmer have the most dismal furnishings; yet they have amazing nature based buildings/architecture. Furnishings could be soooo great and not leather based but more plan/tree based.

I'd like a large new Bosmer island to be discovered off the south coast of Auridon/Greenshade that developed it's society free of the Green Pact and cannabalism. There are factions of each race, why not another faction of Bosmer? They could be an Island Bosmer kingdom working on joining with the Dominion.

Fun to think of the possibilities.

Gargath · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

None of my 14 characters is Bosmer.
I tried to make one but in a same day it was replaced for another Khajiit.

Mik195 · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

Bosmer because all racial passives should be valuable in both PVE and PVP and Bosmer has one that has no value in PVE.

Jaraal · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Except Bosmer are still not as stealthy as before, four years later. In fact, Bosmer are the least stealthy race in ESO, as passive stealth detection alerts hidden enemies to our presence before any other race. Their "hidden" eye will open sooner when a Bosmer approaches.... however the Bosmer will still not be able to see them sooner. And this has been thoroughly tested and proven in other threads.

Actually if they're not a Khajiit or another Bosmer sometimes I'll be able to creep up close on other hidden NB's to where I can see them but they don't react in any way. So either their eye doesn't fully open or they ignore it because they still can't see me and think it's just being buggy.

Of course, a lot of detection depends on the angle you approach them. The detection tests that were run in duels were done face to face, to eliminate any angle variances.

It's interesting to note that the original Bosmer passive change was essentially copied from the Way of Air set. Increased detection, as well as a damage buff upon roll dodging (except the Bosmer got penetration in place of weapon/spell damage). The roll dodge requirement was later removed.

It's also interesting to note that almost four years later, ZOS discovered that stealth detection wasn't actually working as intended.

And of course, no mention of any changes to the Bosmer racial passive.

Vevvev · January 2023

Breton

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I know I know.... just had a whole chapter, but come on... it was really bad lol. Poor Bretons...

Yeah... it was kinda like what Blackwood was for Argonians. No lore, no major npcs, no new & interesting info about their culture...

Actually, even though it was um... bad, High Isle was still better chapter for Bretons than Blackwood was for Argonians (which was more like a imperial chapter set in a swampy area).

To be fair the Imperials owned one whole side of Blackwood, and the area people remember from Oblivion was completely Imperial controlled with a couple Argonian/Khajiit related stuff sprinkled around.

Syldras · January 2023

derkaiserliche wrote: »

Which race is getting not enough love from zenimax?
Which race you would like get focused more in the upcoming years?

These are two different questions. I'm personally not that much interested in a new Bosmer zone (or let's say there are others I'd prefer more), but I still see they're really not getting much attention by the developers and that's something that should change.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Ideally, there would be varied characters of every race. Altmer I feel suffer the most from caricatured portrayal.

Elves in general, I'd say. Although: Haven't they all become caricatures by now?

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

I’d also like to ask for the record, who designed the Bosmer homes in ESO? Because I think they took the term “treehouse” a bit too literal…

The direction they went with these is hideous, and if they do any future “treehouses” I would much rather a traditional fantasy approach.

So you want the Bosmer to abandon the Green Pact and just chop down trees and build houses made from wood on the trees instead of using magic to grow their houses from living plants?

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

Redguard

Syldras wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

Which race is getting not enough love from zenimax?
Which race you would like get focused more in the upcoming years?

These are two different questions. I'm personally not that much interested in a new Bosmer zone (or let's say there are others I'd prefer more), but I still see they're really not getting much attention by the developers and that's something that should change.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Ideally, there would be varied characters of every race. Altmer I feel suffer the most from caricatured portrayal.

Elves in general, I'd say. Although: Haven't they all become caricatures by now?

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

I’d also like to ask for the record, who designed the Bosmer homes in ESO? Because I think they took the term “treehouse” a bit too literal…

The direction they went with these is hideous, and if they do any future “treehouses” I would much rather a traditional fantasy approach.

So you want the Bosmer to abandon the Green Pact and just chop down trees and build houses made from wood on the trees instead of using magic to grow their houses from living plants?

No. Trees that have fallen naturally are fair game, they wouldn’t need to magically grow a house and since when have Bosmer had an affinity for magic?

Syldras · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Trees that have fallen naturally are fair game, they wouldn’t need to magically grow a house and since when have Bosmer had an affinity for magic?

Maybe you should look up Greenspeakers or Pod-Singers.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Greenspeakers

Edited to add link.

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

Redguard

Syldras wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Trees that have fallen naturally are fair game, they wouldn’t need to magically grow a house and since when have Bosmer had an affinity for magic?

Maybe you should look up Greenspeakers or Pod-Singers.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Greenspeakers

Edited to add link.

Thanks for that; there is absolutely no reason why they couldn’t have taken the traditional fantasy approach STILL, the original house isn’t even 10 feet off of the ground, and could easily be up in the air, seeing as the Bosmer passives reduced fall damage, and the artists could have taken that general idea from picture 2, and instead of having sharp corners, could have rounded them with branches, had bridges be made of living branches and kept true to it being magically built.

Trying to excuse horrible art design with lore for a fantasy game; does not work. Art is an adaptation.

TheImperfect · January 2023

Redguard

Definitely Redguard and Bosmer.

Syldras · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Thanks for that; there is absolutely no reason why they couldn’t have taken the traditional fantasy approach STILL, the original house isn’t even 10 feet off of the ground, and could easily be up in the air, seeing as the Bosmer passives reduced fall damage, and the artists could have taken that general idea from picture 2, and instead of having sharp corners, could have rounded them with branches, had bridges be made of living branches and kept true to it being magically built. Trying to excuse horrible art design with lore for a fantasy game; does not work. Art is an adaptation.

I think that's mostly a technical issue. They didn't even create really dense forests in the base game, probably not because they couldn't design something like that, but they also have to keep in mind that player's pcs or consoles must be able to handle it. Also, I guess many players would complain if they had to climb huge stairways and bridges just to enter a Bosmer house for some quest (also, non-Bosmer do not have reduced fall damage, so that's another issue). But who knows, maybe we see something else if there's more Bosmer content some day?

Another thing is that they probably took real-world inspiration with the Bosmer houses (as they do with many things in this game). It's indeed possible to form houses and furniture out of living trees (by bending and braiding them while they grow):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_shaping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Erlandson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Dougherty_(artist)
I'm just searching for it, I think I've seen pictures of something that looks very much like the Bosmer houses in ESO once... Well, this is the closest I can find at the moment, not sure if it's by Arthur Wiechula from the 1920s or by his successor Konstantin Kirsch:
http://www.horstweyrich.de/bilder/hausbaum/fertiggross.gif
Anyway, the design itself does also exist in reality and I guess that's where ZOS had their inspiration from.

BlueRaven · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Trees that have fallen naturally are fair game, they wouldn’t need to magically grow a house and since when have Bosmer had an affinity for magic?

Maybe you should look up Greenspeakers or Pod-Singers.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Greenspeakers

Edited to add link.

Thanks for that; there is absolutely no reason why they couldn’t have taken the traditional fantasy approach STILL, the original house isn’t even 10 feet off of the ground, and could easily be up in the air, seeing as the Bosmer passives reduced fall damage, and the artists could have taken that general idea from picture 2, and instead of having sharp corners, could have rounded them with branches, had bridges be made of living branches and kept true to it being magically built.

Trying to excuse horrible art design with lore for a fantasy game; does not work. Art is an adaptation.

Syldras wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Thanks for that; there is absolutely no reason why they couldn’t have taken the traditional fantasy approach STILL, the original house isn’t even 10 feet off of the ground, and could easily be up in the air, seeing as the Bosmer passives reduced fall damage, and the artists could have taken that general idea from picture 2, and instead of having sharp corners, could have rounded them with branches, had bridges be made of living branches and kept true to it being magically built. Trying to excuse horrible art design with lore for a fantasy game; does not work. Art is an adaptation.

I think that's mostly a technical issue. They didn't even create really dense forests in the base game, probably not because they couldn't design something like that, but they also have to keep in mind that player's pcs or consoles must be able to handle it. Also, I guess many players would complain if they had to climb huge stairways and bridges just to enter a Bosmer house for some quest (also, non-Bosmer do not have reduced fall damage, so that's another issue). But who knows, maybe we see something else if there's more Bosmer content some day?

Another thing is that they probably took real-world inspiration with the Bosmer houses (as they do with many things in this game). It's indeed possible to form houses and furniture out of living trees (by bending and braiding them while they grow):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_shaping
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Erlandson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Dougherty_(artist)
I'm just searching for it, I think I've seen pictures of something that looks very much like the Bosmer houses in ESO once... Well, this is the closest I can find at the moment, not sure if it's by Arthur Wiechula from the 1920s or by his successor Konstantin Kirsch:
http://www.horstweyrich.de/bilder/hausbaum/fertiggross.gif
Anyway, the design itself does also exist in reality and I guess that's where ZOS had their inspiration from.

I think you are both correct. The trees DO need to look like they were "grown" rather than cut and assembled. But those "pod" homes are not very aesthetically pleasing. Apart from the argonians "mud" homes they are really amongst the worst looking in the game.

Give me bosmer homes that are built like this:

Or closer to this:

Syldras · January 2023

BlueRaven wrote: »

But those "pod" homes are not very aesthetically pleasing. Apart from the argonians "mud" homes they are really amongst the worst looking in the game.

Well, they are supposed to look rather primitive (with Bosmer houses, the exceptions are representative buildings like temples or palaces), which also reflects in their furniture. You can't really say this was the pinnacle of craftmanship:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-furnishing-Wood_Elf_Tent,_Sturdy.jpg
Or this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-furnishing-Argonian_Brazier,_Mud.jpg
Or the Bosmer clothes that look like just a few leather shreds put together somehow:
https://i0.wp.com/eso.mmo-fashion.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/07/Wood-Elf-Vanguard-Male-Close-Front.jpg
Do I find it appealing? Not so much. But it is consequent at least, and probably what they imagined.

DreamyLu · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

Bosmer for me. Quite egoistic reason: I have one main char, a bosmer, and play with her only.

Side note: I'm with bosmer because it's the only race with which I achieved to "design" a char appearance I like.

merpins · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

Every major DLC since the game's release has been focused on a race in ES lore. And every race has had their own big expansion... Except Bosmer. If this year is a complete departure from ZoS' formula, and for example is the Telvani Peninsula as many players suspect the main DLC is gonna be, it just means that ZoS is basically skipping Bosmer's DLC. Which would suck. It's my main reason to why I don't think the Telvani Peninsula is gonna be this year's DLC.

Aliyavana · January 2023

Breton

alternatelder wrote: »

As an Altmer main, I'll be disappointed if the new chapter or next year's is not Bosmer theme.

You will be disappointed then

Aliyavana · January 2023

Breton

Bosmer is the correct answer. We just had a breton expansion, but i still feel they were not properly fleshed out.

BlueRaven · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

Syldras wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

But those "pod" homes are not very aesthetically pleasing. Apart from the argonians "mud" homes they are really amongst the worst looking in the game.

Well, they are supposed to look rather primitive (with Bosmer houses, the exceptions are representative buildings like temples or palaces), which also reflects in their furniture. You can't really say this was the pinnacle of craftmanship:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-furnishing-Wood_Elf_Tent,_Sturdy.jpg
Or this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-furnishing-Argonian_Brazier,_Mud.jpg
Or the Bosmer clothes that look like just a few leather shreds put together somehow:
https://i0.wp.com/eso.mmo-fashion.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/07/Wood-Elf-Vanguard-Male-Close-Front.jpg
Do I find it appealing? Not so much. But it is consequent at least, and probably what they imagined.

I get that. Really I do. But the great palace in Grahtwood is pleasing to look at and pass through, while still being everything you just said.
You can have natural looking “grown” houses that are not shaped like giant onions. There are wood elf structures in game right now that prove that.

Syldras · January 2023

BlueRaven wrote: »

I get that. Really I do. But the great palace in Grahtwood is pleasing to look at and pass through, while still being everything you just said.

Yeah, but that's the palace, that's the point I think. The only bigger/taller houses are palaces, temples and community buildings, it seems. It might be possible that shape and height of the dwelling also reflects status.

TaSheen · January 2023

Redguard

I'd have liked the "common" Bosmer homes better if they'd been shaped more like acorns, with the roof the little cap acorns have.

FayJolyn · January 2023

Bosmer (Woodelf)

I voted bosmer even though I enjoyed learning about their culture and habits during the base game. I just always felt the base game held them back. I feel that not only visually they look too similair to Altmer, their furnishings are really lacklustre. While I love the Snugpod the round walls too are somtimes a hassle to work with. If Bosmer ever get a expansion based around them I would like to see their wilder side get some atention. The whole green pact is both an asset and a disadvantage for them.

Elden Root as a place is really lacklustre to look, I never really got the feeling of being at the heart of Bosmer culture.