Rework Templar Jabs?

Vulkunne · November 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

The original jabs was really a like a Lance and was never intended to be a Spear.

Everything after this is all well in good but it is in the "Aedric Spear" line and has always said something about striking with your Aedric Spear or just spear in the tooltips for maybe everything in that line.

Either way, whatever they call it; I'd be happier if it all looked like the Javelin that gets thrown. Was the coolest-looking part of Templar at launch to hurl that at someone and slam them to the ground. Used to instantly knock players off horses as well.

Ok, if they want to think of it as a spear then it may not be a total loss necessarily as Eastern Knights, commonly referred to as "Cataphracts" did fight with spears, among other things, using their mass to drive force instead of a lance. Although there were cultural, political and geographical differences that made these two military units distinct from one another. Cataphracts were more or less part of the standing army for the state and not part of any Crusader Knightly Order (such as Templars or Hospitallers for example). In fact, heck you could prob come up with a separate class for both. Not to mention Japanese Samurai as well.

This is another reason why content continuity is so important

Ariordin · December 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Either way, whatever they call it; I'd be happier if it all looked like the Javelin that gets thrown. Was the coolest-looking part of Templar at launch to hurl that at someone and slam them to the ground. Used to instantly knock players off horses as well.

Before U35 the Aedric spear abilities all shared this same javelin/spear animation. Now the Jabs has this vampire staff animation, which is completely ruining the synergy of the skill line.

It no longer feels like the skill line has this theme it was supposed too.

SaffronCitrusflower · December 2022

Ariordin wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Either way, whatever they call it; I'd be happier if it all looked like the Javelin that gets thrown. Was the coolest-looking part of Templar at launch to hurl that at someone and slam them to the ground. Used to instantly knock players off horses as well.

Before U35 the Aedric spear abilities all shared this same javelin/spear animation. Now the Jabs has this vampire staff animation, which is completely ruining the synergy of the skill line.

It no longer feels like the skill line has this theme it was supposed too.

They don't need to "rework" jabs and flurry animations as the OP suggested. They just need to put them back the way they were originally. They can change the timing without changing the animation very easily. I, as are many others, totally baffled by these animation changes. This is the kind of thing that really hurts confidence in the competence of the company.

wolfie1.0. · December 2022

Are we sure we want this? Last time they reworked it it was made worse... do we really want a worse version than what we have?

Oakenaxe · December 2022

The fact that they are simply ignoring such massive negative feedback regarding jabs changes is bizarre.

gariondavey · December 2022

Oakenaxe wrote: »

The fact that they are simply ignoring such massive negative feedback regarding jabs changes is bizarre.

Yes, I don't understand it either

Ariordin · December 2022

Oakenaxe wrote: »

The fact that they are simply ignoring such massive negative feedback regarding jabs changes is bizarre.

Its not SUPER unusual for the Dev's to go quiet during the holidays. While they should make comment now, it is more likely to happen after new years as they prepare to announce the next releases.

ectoplasmicninja · December 2022

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

They don't need to "rework" jabs and flurry animations as the OP suggested. They just need to put them back the way they were originally. They can change the timing without changing the animation very easily. I, as are many others, totally baffled by these animation changes.

Agreed. I follow the thought process of "we changed the number of hits and cast time and now the animation doesn't line up so we need to change it" but I cannot make the leap of logic to "let's not just pull one of the stabby bits and slow down/speed up the rest accordingly but instead let's incorporate a vampire staff motif and an incredibly janky looking sideways swing". I've given up pursuing high end content so I don't really care about damage nerfs anymore, but aesthetics are very important to me and I genuinely cannot fathom that multiple sets of eyes saw this animation and thought this was good.

The argument of "just use a different spammable, jabs sucks now anyway" also doesn't work for me because I'm all about class identity and I refuse to use a non-class spammable. Jabs is so integral to templar identity, it was such a visually distinctive and cool-looking skill - and now I hate my templar. Who was my main, with whom I did almost every quest in the game. Sigh.

amig186 · December 2022

Vulkunne wrote: »

The original jabs was really a like a Lance and was never intended to be a Spear.

They would have to add mounted combat for it to be an Aedric lance.

danno8 · December 2022

Ariordin wrote: »

Oakenaxe wrote: »

The fact that they are simply ignoring such massive negative feedback regarding jabs changes is bizarre.

Its not SUPER unusual for the Dev's to go quiet during the holidays. While they should make comment now, it is more likely to happen after new years as they prepare to announce the next releases.

They've been silent since U35 PTS which was sometime in July/August. I have not seen any communication from the developers regarding the animation change, visual asset change or the nerf (although I didn't expect any regarding the nerf).

Jabbs_Giggity · December 2022

Been thinking long and hard about this one...Just make Blazing Shield fun again.

Make damage scale with highest offensive stat. Currently, using my tool-tip as is, Shield strength is at 4800 (rounded for easier calculations).
Blazing shield can do maximum of 22% of damage absorbed, where damage absorbed can increase 4% per enemy near it.
Even at 10 enemies, thats only a 40% increase. 4800*1.4=6720
Damage output at 22% is 6720*.22=1478 damage raw - this doesn't even included PVP scaling, armor, crits, resists, debuffs etc.

I want a Blazing Shield build again without having to build for max Health with no resources/sustain/damage.

Don't really care what they change about the skill, make it fun. Remove the shield if necessary and make it an offensive AOE skill.

Or, just bring back Blinding Light

bruta · December 2022

instead of rework and more time wasted, just reverse it the way it used to be. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

gariondavey · December 2022

Fix jabs please

ADarklore · December 2022

They can keep the animation (I prefer the old but can live with the new), I just want the damage ticks and heals returned to pre-U35! When an AOE (Blazing Spear) outperforms your regular spammable, that indicates a very big problem with the class. If they returned it back to normal, I'd be OK with them lowering dmg and healing (a bit) but what they did in U35 is completely gut the skill altogether.

ALAEACUS · December 2022

I mean, somebody can ask them about this in the Q&A they promised which is several months late, likely to never happen. There are people who wanted Templars nerfed. But the Jabs animation change is pretty much a universally despised item, and NO ONE ASKED FOR IT.

Were you seriously incapable of nerfing Jabs without changing the model? Did you lose a developer that had the original old animation data locked in a flash drive?

rexagamemnon · December 2022

I dont notice the animation as much, but the damage nerf is still unacceptable

Sidereum · December 2022

I just keep wondering why they couldn't just change the animation while keeping the same spear model.

tomofhyrule · December 2022

Yeah, the problem for me is the spear ("spear") model.

I get that they had to change the animation since the attack time changed. But now there's a visual disconnect in the Templar kit, where one of the spear moves makes a physical object while the others all use the beam of light.

I wouldn't have had any problem if they just kept the same beam-of-light look for the new version.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Araneae6537 · December 2022

Was the flurry animation also changed this past year? I’m sure it used to be a flurry of jabs whereas now it looks like wild drunken flailing.

zaria · December 2022

bruta wrote: »

instead of rework and more time wasted, just reverse it the way it used to be. [snip]

Don't care about the animation, the destructive nerf is my issue.
I ask for an replacement of that team. Random buffs and nerfs because they find it fun does not increase the company bottom line.
While managing to make more and more toxic pvp builds.
Its an special skill.

[edited to remove quote]

SaffronCitrusflower · December 2022

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Was the flurry animation also changed this past year? I’m sure it used to be a flurry of jabs whereas now it looks like wild drunken flailing.

Yes, they also messed the flurry animation for no apparent reason at the same time.

It's a mystery why ZOS made these baffling and unwanted animation changes. It's still mystifying how they came up with the idea to use a Nighthollow stave as a templar spear, which is supposed to be a spear made of light just like all the other templar spear animations.

It's even more baffling why they haven't reverted these animation changes after finding out how widely unpopular they are. Reverting these animation changes would be very easy.

AvalonRanger · December 2022

Just revert every combat animation and combat SE changing in the 2022.
Sometimes, old school standard is better than twisted way.

Jaraal · December 2022

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

It's even more baffling why they haven't reverted these animation changes after finding out how widely unpopular they are. Reverting these animation changes would be very easy.

ZOS has never been known for doing what the players want, or avoiding situations like this in the first place by asking what the players want. They take pride in their decisions.... no matter how unpopular they are.

SaffronCitrusflower · January 2023

Jaraal wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

It's even more baffling why they haven't reverted these animation changes after finding out how widely unpopular they are. Reverting these animation changes would be very easy.

ZOS has never been known for doing what the players want, or avoiding situations like this in the first place by asking what the players want. They take pride in their decisions.... no matter how unpopular they are.

I'm afraid you have a point. And until ZOS revisits this change to jabs animation that nobody asked for and makes no sense, your point will stand.

Templars use spears of light. Not night hollow staves. The jabs animation doesn't even fit with their other skill animations now. They could easily change the animation back to what it was and simply adjust the timing and everyone would be happy I think. Sure, the damage nerfs that templars got across the board were especially severe given that nothing about templars was over performing, but the the night hollow stave jabs animation just can't be justified on any level.

Jaraal · January 2023

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

It's even more baffling why they haven't reverted these animation changes after finding out how widely unpopular they are. Reverting these animation changes would be very easy.

ZOS has never been known for doing what the players want, or avoiding situations like this in the first place by asking what the players want. They take pride in their decisions.... no matter how unpopular they are.

I'm afraid you have a point. And until ZOS revisits this change to jabs animation that nobody asked for and makes no sense, your point will stand.

Templars use spears of light. Not night hollow staves. The jabs animation doesn't even fit with their other skill animations now. They could easily change the animation back to what it was and simply adjust the timing and everyone would be happy I think. Sure, the damage nerfs that templars got across the board were especially severe given that nothing about templars was over performing, but the the night hollow stave jabs animation just can't be justified on any level.

And I don't understand the gravedigging swingy part of it, either. Literally no one in war would risk breaking their spear by waving it around like a baseball bat. Or their magic staff, either. The lore for the Nighthollow stave says that the shovel looking part was designed for amplifying and focusing magic. The idea of swinging it around kinda defeats that purpose... unless your goal is to break somebody's knees with magic.

LadyLavina · January 2023

Should rename it Boops instead of Jabs with how lackluster the animation change made it feel.

kargen27 · January 2023

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

It's even more baffling why they haven't reverted these animation changes after finding out how widely unpopular they are. Reverting these animation changes would be very easy.

ZOS has never been known for doing what the players want, or avoiding situations like this in the first place by asking what the players want. They take pride in their decisions.... no matter how unpopular they are.

I'm afraid you have a point. And until ZOS revisits this change to jabs animation that nobody asked for and makes no sense, your point will stand.

Templars use spears of light. Not night hollow staves. The jabs animation doesn't even fit with their other skill animations now. They could easily change the animation back to what it was and simply adjust the timing and everyone would be happy I think. Sure, the damage nerfs that templars got across the board were especially severe given that nothing about templars was over performing, but the the night hollow stave jabs animation just can't be justified on any level.

I like the new animation.

Grega · January 2023

kargen27 wrote: »

I like the new animation.

While to each its own, you are one of the very very very very very few that does. 99.9999999999% are not happy with a “object” used for stabbing, while said object is said in its description is “not used for stabbing”. Granted, it does look like digging. 🤷‍♂️😂

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

If they were to have chosen something like Imperial Champion Staves instead of Nighthollow ones, the reception would have been a lot better…

You can clearly see that the style is less imposing on the appearance of a traditional spear.

Cast_El · January 2023

The snare is so bad for pvp. Enemy only take one hit