Rework Templar Jabs?

xthrshx

I have never seen any game destroy anything as thoroughly as they destroyed jabs. The animation and assets are bad in every way. The spear is held wrong. It’s thrust wrong. It’s not even a spear. In fact, it’s an evil vampire weapon. It doesn’t match the other assets in the skill line. The sound is out of sync. And then there are the multiple damage nerfs. Fewer hits. Less damage per hit. Reduced damage from burning light.

The game’s most iconic skill was just deleted.

Jaraal

xthrshx wrote: »

I have never seen any game destroy anything as thoroughly as they destroyed jabs. The animation and assets are bad in every way. The spear is held wrong. It’s thrust wrong. It’s not even a spear. In fact, it’s an evil vampire weapon. It doesn’t match the other assets in the skill line. The sound is out of sync. And then there are the multiple damage nerfs. Fewer hits. Less damage per hit. Reduced damage from burning light.

The game’s most iconic skill was just deleted.

And they haven’t even once acknowledged the player outcry over such a drastic change. Not even ‘working on something to address player sentiment.’ Just flat out silence.

Grega

Jaraal wrote: »

xthrshx wrote: »

I have never seen any game destroy anything as thoroughly as they destroyed jabs. The animation and assets are bad in every way. The spear is held wrong. It’s thrust wrong. It’s not even a spear. In fact, it’s an evil vampire weapon. It doesn’t match the other assets in the skill line. The sound is out of sync. And then there are the multiple damage nerfs. Fewer hits. Less damage per hit. Reduced damage from burning light.

The game’s most iconic skill was just deleted.

And they haven’t even once acknowledged the player outcry over such a drastic change. Not even ‘working on something to address player sentiment.’ Just flat out silence.

Yea that’s what gets me the most, it’s so obviously an issue for so many and they never even said “we don’t see it an issue” or just anything to acknowledge. Really sad considering this was templars identity.

CMFan1966

I absolutely despise the jabs animation now. I still find the skill useful, but I hate the fact that it looks like I'm beating the enemy with a magic shovel. It's clunky and slow and it looks stupid. Please give us our spear back with the old animations. You can keep the damage aspect where it is. Just make it look right again.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

CMFan1966 wrote: »

I absolutely despise the jabs animation now. I still find the skill useful, but I hate the fact that it looks like I'm beating the enemy with a magic shovel. It's clunky and slow and it looks stupid. Please give us our spear back with the old animations. You can keep the damage aspect where it is. Just make it look right again.

Agreed.

shadyjane62

This single change destroyed ESO for me, 8 years a Templar, very happy. Now determined never to spend another penny on this game.

I will continue to play till I find something else or my year sub runs out.

From_Siberia

shadyjane62 wrote: »

This single change destroyed ESO for me, 8 years a Templar, very happy. Now determined never to spend another penny on this game.

Same. ZOS team greatly underestimated how players loved Templar visual style.

Rework should be careful, either barely noticeable, or much more responsible. But templars got a bad movement animation when using Jabs and the texture for the skill was taken from the Nighthollow staff motif (vampire motif). I want this skill to be well visually reworked, but now this is very bad.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Kevin, do you know that some templars still spit when they use new Jabs? At least try to discuss this problem at the planning meeting. Also consider buffing PoTL/PL to make this skill more competitive after hard nerf. Thanks.

LesserCircle

Nah change this thing, bring back the old jabs.

Major_Soulless

As someone who plays Templar as my main character pve and pvp I have to say I’m more irritated by the over zealous nerf to POTL/Pl than I am the jabs reworking. If you put the practice in with the new jabs animation you can make it work but the nerf to PL was overzealous

ProudMary

It's changes like the change made to jabs animation that erodes trust in ZOS and their dev team. Nobody asked for this change. And who's idea was it to use a night hollow stave for the animation rather than sticking with the spear of light animation that all the other templar spears use?

Then the lack of response to this issue doesn't help instill confidence in the companies will to work with and respond to the player base either.

ProudMary

Major_Soulless wrote: »

As someone who plays Templar as my main character pve and pvp I have to say I’m more irritated by the over zealous nerf to POTL/Pl than I am the jabs reworking. If you put the practice in with the new jabs animation you can make it work but the nerf to PL was overzealous

Yep. They nerfed templar into the ground even though templar was already among the weakest classes in the first place. When you take all three skill nerfs they gave to templar with U35 they really killed templar as a class.

TechMaybeHic

Major_Soulless wrote: »

As someone who plays Templar as my main character pve and pvp I have to say I’m more irritated by the over zealous nerf to POTL/Pl than I am the jabs reworking. If you put the practice in with the new jabs animation you can make it work but the nerf to PL was overzealous

Yeah it's really off putting. I played Templar since late beta and I keep trying to go make it work, and situationally I can; but then I realize I'm working twice as hard to just try to get maybe 75% as effective as other classes at best. Against a good player with specific sets, it's well below that

Major_Soulless

I’ve switched to warden after 4 years it got too much

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

I was hoping to hear a response from Zos on this by now. Not expecting, but hoping.

merpins

I switched my main that I had been playing since the game came out to Warden with the Jabs change. Jabs was my favorite skill in the game, and the reason I kept playing templar all these years. But the animation for the new jabs is terrible. I'm a professional animator, I work as a timing artist, and the animation timing on this skill is absolutely horrendous. I don't even touch my old main anymore. I don't play much at all these days to be fair, waiting to see what happens with what's coming later this year, but if I was playing regularly, I would not be playing Templar with the new jabs animation. Posted many a forum thread during the PTS of U35 about the jabs change, and the consensus was pretty clear as to where the majority of the players stood on that change...

Though to be fair, the consensus was pretty clear as to where the majority of the players stood on U35 as a whole, too, but we were left unheard on every front.

Jaraal

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

I was hoping to hear a response from Zos on this by now. Not expecting, but hoping.

They’ve been ignoring everything related to this subject for several months. I think it’s safe to say nothing will change in that regard.

ADarklore

ProudMary wrote: »

Major_Soulless wrote: »

As someone who plays Templar as my main character pve and pvp I have to say I’m more irritated by the over zealous nerf to POTL/Pl than I am the jabs reworking. If you put the practice in with the new jabs animation you can make it work but the nerf to PL was overzealous

Yep. They nerfed templar into the ground even though templar was already among the weakest classes in the first place. When you take all three skill nerfs they gave to templar with U35 they really killed templar as a class.

Tell that to Deltia, whose main was Templar and continuously posted videos and builds marking Magplar as TOP solo DPS. Do you not think ZOS watches videos made by content streamers?!? IMO many of the nerfs we've seen over the years were a direct result of streamers posting 'OP build' videos.

IMO, I can deal with the new animation and DPS loss... however... they should not have cut BOTH damage 'and' healing on Sweeps. They need to buff the healing back to what it was before the damage nerf.

maxjapank

ADarklore wrote: »

IMO many of the nerfs we've seen over the years were a direct result of streamers posting 'OP build' videos.

There are some streamers who may have influenced decisions. But there have also been a few players on these forums, players that didn't even main a Templar, who were incessant about nerfing certain skills. Like Ritual of Retribution and the snare that Cleansing Ritual used to provide. Claims that sweeps was overloaded. In fact, even some ex-Templars helped to get skills like Backlash nerfed when anyone could contribute to the damage of the final explosion.

While skills are adjusted over time, there were benefits to leaving skills as they were. What might seem a good change to the individual skill for some...actually have repercussions in counter play that were useful. Personally, I think the original creator of skills had a vision for how classes were supposed to feel and how they contributed to the overall balance of all classes. But lately skills have turned into a numbers balance.

As for the new Templar animation of sweeps, it's terrible. Almost everyone I know hates it. And those that don't hate it, don't like it.

Captain_Devildog

ADarklore wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

Major_Soulless wrote: »

As someone who plays Templar as my main character pve and pvp I have to say I’m more irritated by the over zealous nerf to POTL/Pl than I am the jabs reworking. If you put the practice in with the new jabs animation you can make it work but the nerf to PL was overzealous

Yep. They nerfed templar into the ground even though templar was already among the weakest classes in the first place. When you take all three skill nerfs they gave to templar with U35 they really killed templar as a class.

Tell that to Deltia, whose main was Templar and continuously posted videos and builds marking Magplar as TOP solo DPS. Do you not think ZOS watches videos made by content streamers?!? IMO many of the nerfs we've seen over the years were a direct result of streamers posting 'OP build' videos.

IMO, I can deal with the new animation and DPS loss... however... they should not have cut BOTH damage 'and' healing on Sweeps. They need to buff the healing back to what it was before the damage nerf.

Deltia Rage quited the game once when they nerfed the Templar..

Captain_Devildog

Grega wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like the new animation.

While to each its own, you are one of the very very very very very few that does. 99.9999999999% are not happy with a “object” used for stabbing, while said object is said in its description is “not used for stabbing”. Granted, it does look like digging. 🤷‍♂️😂

Thankyou very much Grega finally someone who speaks english 👌

SaffronCitrusflower

Grega wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like the new animation.

While to each its own, you are one of the very very very very very few that does. 99.9999999999% are not happy with a “object” used for stabbing, while said object is said in its description is “not used for stabbing”. Granted, it does look like digging. 🤷‍♂️😂

Yep. The new templar night hollow spear is digging the grave for the templar class.

UnabashedlyHonest

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I like the new animation.

While to each its own, you are one of the very very very very very few that does. 99.9999999999% are not happy with a “object” used for stabbing, while said object is said in its description is “not used for stabbing”. Granted, it does look like digging. 🤷‍♂️😂

Yep. The new templar night hollow spear is digging the grave for the templar class.

LOL, yep.

ProudMary

The only way to describe the changes to jabs is, at best, poorly thought out and resulted in a spastic looking animation that doesn't at all fit with the other templar spear animations. Templars are supposed to use spears of light, not night hollow staves. It seems clear the person creating this animation has never played ESO I think.

Charon_on_Vacation

keep in mind how that change happened.
they wanted to bring the templar spammable animation more in line with light attack weaving, but they have neither the budget nor the artists for it, so they outsourced the whole thing for the tiny budget they had.
you get what you pay for, and that was it.
the main goal was just to "get it done", not how it looks, feels or if it fits the lore.

XSTRONG

They also need to change flurry, the new animation is very bad

morrowjen

daim wrote: »

This and rapid strikes. Give em back

Rapid strikes was my main skill until the animation change. It's so bad that when I first went onto the PTS, I thought it was bugged because I didn't know they had changed the animation and my character looked like she was flailing around like a drunk. After it went live, it still looked terrible and really messed up my rotation. I wound up switching to silver shards but I wish rapid strikes was still an option.

Jaraal

I still want to know the protocol that these unwelcome changes go through. I have a hard time believing that a committee all looked at this new animation and was like, “Wow, cool! Love how you repurposed that vampire staff as a holy piercing weapon! Let’s roll with it!” Did nobody say, “Hey, why are you swinging that staff like a golf club at the end? Wouldn’t it break against armor?” Didn’t anyone question how players would feel about removing part of the identity of their characters that they had enjoyed every day for years? Or perhaps was one artist unfamiliar with ESO lore charged with making a new animation, then submitted it and it got pushed through without review? How does this work exactly?

UnabashedlyHonest

Jaraal wrote: »

I still want to know the protocol that these unwelcome changes go through. I have a hard time believing that a committee all looked at this new animation and was like, “Wow, cool! Love how you repurposed that vampire staff as a holy piercing weapon! Let’s roll with it!” Did nobody say, “Hey, why are you swinging that staff like a golf club at the end? Wouldn’t it break against armor?” Didn’t anyone question how players would feel about removing part of the identity of their characters that they had enjoyed every day for years? Or perhaps was one artist unfamiliar with ESO lore charged with making a new animation, then submitted it and it got pushed through without review? How does this work exactly?

Me too! When changes like the changes to jabs animation happen you really have to wonder what is going on internally at ZOS.

ProudMary

Jaraal wrote: »

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

I was hoping to hear a response from Zos on this by now. Not expecting, but hoping.

They’ve been ignoring everything related to this subject for several months. I think it’s safe to say nothing will change in that regard.

Doesn't mean this issue isn't well deserving of attention. They really, really, really need to revert this nonsensical change they made to the jabs animation.

shadyjane62

Since they ruined Jabs I have vowed to never spend another penny on this Company. I have spent this years wasted sub filling my craft bag.

I will play but I won't pay.