If, IF all players would use Oakensoul 1 bar builds, how much would serverload and latency decrease?

SickleCider · December 2022

I have Flawless, I do vet trials, I weave, but I still use Oakensoul in overland because I also have arthritis and it makes a significant impact on the amount of pain I'm in after a gaming session. It doesn't give me the best DPS but puts me close enough to my usual DPS that it's definitely good enough.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2022

Sarannah wrote: »

The unnerfed Oakensoul was a godsend, and we should get many more items like it. I also feel Oakensoul was nerfed WAY too much. Oakensoul made one bar builds, which are the only thing I use, more durable(not stronger). And it made PvP more fun, as it was no longer about bursting players down in 0.2 secs.

Personally I do think using oakensoul takes off some of the serverload, as players don't use backbar buffs, timers, and bar-swapping. Should save about 20% of the calculations per player versus a player who is regular two bar/weaving, due to less calculations. In the grand scheme of things, this is probably not noticable, as for the server itself it is probably less than 0.0001% of a difference. (Most of the things the server is busy with, are not done by players: Spawning mobs, resetting instances, spawning containers, rolling loot, rolling amount of loot, etc)

As I am not really into mythic farming, I am only using oakensoul on two of my builds. My power stayed about the same, but I have more resources to play with. So yes, it was nerfed too much!

PS: Latency isn't a server thing, latency is about how fast/stable your connection to the server actually is.
PPS: Can't comment on the new EU servers, as they are not yet released/installed.

LMAO. Original Oakensoul did exactly that. It was so OP for ganking that you could kill players in 1-2 GCDs, which considering the first one happens before the target realizes it, counterplay was non existent. I will concede that it was super fun to be the ganker.

To the OP. I think it is pure speculation that players using Oakensoul are somehow better for servers. If anything, the fact that you have like 20 buffs at all times just increases the calculations required with each action.

Now if you required everyone to run it, it would help servers because people would leave the game in droves. LOL

ghastley · December 2022

Going back to the original question. Oakensoul probably increases server-side work, as more buffs etc. need to be calculated in to each action. Everyonr using would therefore make it worse, not better.

The benefit of fewer swaps being requested won’t outweigh the per-attack work the engine needs to do. Reducing the number of targets, the number of concurrent effects is what will help. And determining if a proc happens (both the conditions and the RNG part) is also a server expanse, so fewer proc sets, or just simpler ones, would help, too. That all applies to the bosses, not just the players. Over-complex mechanics is server waste.

boi_anachronism_ · December 2022

Dragkiris wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Weapon swap is literally 1 button. It blows my mind people have a problem with that. Why should less effort be rewarded with higher dps? It's just wrong in every way. Why should eso be optimised for handicapped people when it ruins the game for everyone else

It's practically impossible for me to bar swap with constant 999+ ping. Also can't dodge roll. Lots of things aren't really workable with very high ping. Also no grouping - can you imagine any group putting up with a character with that amount of lag?

As long as I'm using Oakensoul only in my solo play, I can't see how it ruins the game for you.

You dont have 999+ ping. If you did you wouldnt stay connected to the server. Players from Australia, New Zealand, and eastern Asia ping 250-350 to PCNA and have no issues bar swapping and doing the hardest content in the game (granted pvp can be an issue).

Lol I have had ping that high. That said I was at an airbnb in the middle of the mountains and the internet was.. well I would have been better off using the hotspot on my phone.. if I had service. When I say my upload/download speed was measured in kb I'm not kidding. I frankly couldn't believe I stayed connected, it defied all logic. I had to hold block like a solid 15 secs before I thought an attack was coming in. I cleared vss that night somehow and then promptly disconnected right after the final boss hit the deck. Thank God I got to loot. I wasn't able to connect again the entire rest of the time I was there. I still have relatively high latency considering I have really good internet, and a solid router that prioritizes traffic, can't figure out why.

Araneae6537 · December 2022

How boring! I haven’t even bothered to find this mythic — two small skill bars is not a lot of skills, much less than many games, which in itself isn’t better or worse, but I certainly don’t want to halve that!

Note I have nothing against making one bar builds more viable. But I hate having options taken away from me; that’s the worst kind of change to a game in my opinion.

AinSoph · December 2022

Hot take, Oakensoul shouldn't have been an item you equip and locked behind paid content but an accessibility feature in the settings.

Vulkunne · December 2022

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

The unnerfed Oakensoul was a godsend, and we should get many more items like it. I also feel Oakensoul was nerfed WAY too much. Oakensoul made one bar builds, which are the only thing I use, more durable(not stronger). And it made PvP more fun, as it was no longer about bursting players down in 0.2 secs.

Personally I do think using oakensoul takes off some of the serverload, as players don't use backbar buffs, timers, and bar-swapping. Should save about 20% of the calculations per player versus a player who is regular two bar/weaving, due to less calculations. In the grand scheme of things, this is probably not noticable, as for the server itself it is probably less than 0.0001% of a difference. (Most of the things the server is busy with, are not done by players: Spawning mobs, resetting instances, spawning containers, rolling loot, rolling amount of loot, etc)

As I am not really into mythic farming, I am only using oakensoul on two of my builds. My power stayed about the same, but I have more resources to play with. So yes, it was nerfed too much!

PS: Latency isn't a server thing, latency is about how fast/stable your connection to the server actually is.
PPS: Can't comment on the new EU servers, as they are not yet released/installed.

LMAO. Original Oakensoul did exactly that. It was so OP for ganking that you could kill players in 1-2 GCDs, which considering the first one happens before the target realizes it, counterplay was non existent. I will concede that it was super fun to be the ganker.

To the OP. I think it is pure speculation that players using Oakensoul are somehow better for servers. If anything, the fact that you have like 20 buffs at all times just increases the calculations required with each action.

Now if you required everyone to run it, it would help servers because people would leave the game in droves. LOL

Absolutely it was alot of fun. That's it.

Look folks, let's play a game ok? Bring up the original Oakensouls Ring, pre nerf so you can view it on your screen. Read off each "buff" from this abomination and do one of two things:

Either state what that buff does, without looking it up AND/OR state why you need every buff to meet the vision for your build/character.

And I'm willing to bet many out there cannot do either. And that's the problem. You have no idea what the buff is or why you need it. People just see power and they want it. For example, when thinking of how to solve a problem with your build, in many cases there were buffs on Oakensouls that belong to various build types and these by themselves wouldn't even need all those buffs. People just felt they had to have it, its human nature I guess to want it all, but sometimes having less is more.

This is why I believe, things of this nature do not belong in this game, except for fun. Which I'm ok with that. But you know, there are people out there like myself who work hard on our builds, have paid quite a bit to learn how things work and when you do comical things like this it just makes people wonder why work for anything.

I'll just put on Oakensouls, turn my brain, turn my mind off, not use a second weapon and just not care. Its the little difference between playing Minesweeper and Tai Pai. You either click away until you go *BOOM* or learn the tiles, appreciate the fine artwork and notice patterns by paying attn to detail.

I can't decide for ya and never would but the game was saved the day Oakensouls more or less went away.

Reverb · December 2022

EnKor wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if everyone was forced to use oakensoul, it would be impossible to clear cloudrest lol

Why should be people be forced to use oakensoul?
Why should be people make perfect rotation?
Why should be many users, buy razor products just to use Razor Macros and make 130k?!
Noone forced you to nothing. You use what's best for your game play.

Why its ok people with Razor Macros do130k damage, but it's not ok allow players with oakensoul to have same damage?!

Why Macros are more important then who buy oakensoul ?!

I think you misunderstood the comment you replied to.

There is a mechanic in Couldrest that forces you to swap bars until the condition expires, otherwise you die and wipe some of the group.

If everyone was forced to use Oakensoul it would actually be impossible to complete
Vet Cloudrest.

Hapexamendios · December 2022

Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.

Vulkunne · December 2022

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.

But it does. And that's the second side of the issue is not just how Oakensoul's is itself massively overpowered with no real checks and balances, players using it don't really understand it and because of that they don't understand how it affects others in the game who may not use it. So its over incentive for one and disenfranchises everyone else for not having it.

And that I think is no fun at all.

wolfie1.0. · December 2022

Vulkunne wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.

Except that its massively Overpowered lol.

I'd say it has quite a large effect in any PvP situation, especially for someone else for example, who doesn't have Oakensouls and is sitting on conventional builds. You can't have that much power and then say it doesn't affect anyone else. Unless you are not PvPing at all. Then I guess you could. But in a way this is another part of the problem is something like Oakensouls upsets the skill curve and people don't realize it lol.

Just because someone spends time digging up a couple leads should not them the right to have that much of a power advantage over other players because it affects them too.

Your statement flies in the face of most of the content in eso, which when you delve into it is having effective character skills, effective equipment, and effective skills to use them properly.

Oakensoul is no different than anything else gear wise you can bring to battle, even if it is "broken" lots of other sets have been broken before and still are.

Vulkunne · December 2022

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.

Except that its massively Overpowered lol.

I'd say it has quite a large effect in any PvP situation, especially for someone else for example, who doesn't have Oakensouls and is sitting on conventional builds. You can't have that much power and then say it doesn't affect anyone else. Unless you are not PvPing at all. Then I guess you could. But in a way this is another part of the problem is something like Oakensouls upsets the skill curve and people don't realize it lol.

Just because someone spends time digging up a couple leads should not them the right to have that much of a power advantage over other players because it affects them too.

Your statement flies in the face of most of the content in eso, which when you delve into it is having effective character skills, effective equipment, and effective skills to use them properly.

Oakensoul is no different than anything else gear wise you can bring to battle, even if it is "broken" lots of other sets have been broken before and still are.

How do you define effective?

You can be effective and not require Oakensouls. Oakensouls is different in the respect that it makes other content in the game irrelevant due to infringing on the reward provided by many different sets and making them unnecessary because you have the 'one ring' that has a very alarming number of buffs attached to a one piece item set.

Clearly this 'flies in the face' of most other content in eso and not my statement. As a case in point, nerfing Oakensouls made a large amount of content relevant again because players cannot go to one source, one place, one item set and get the net affect of things that would normally require one to draw from a range of particular sets *from across the game*. Ergo, other sets native to some of the power provided by Oakensouls are relevant again because they are no longer made obsolete (in mass) by a one-piece mythic set and must once again be sought by players and moved into a balanced build against competing sets.

I stand by my statement and welcome contrasting points of view.

AlterBlika · December 2022

Too bad Oaken got nerfed hard. I was planning on using it when solo but now it is so lackluster dps&survivability wise. Well, at least it still helps someone, so it's not a complete failure as a mythic?

zaria · December 2022

Cazador wrote: »

Here's a hot take-
Items/sets being added to the game that help lower skilled/ less physically able people perform better are a good thing.

And to answer the original question o don't really think it would have much impact on server load whatsoever.

Agree, they ran an huge PvP test campaign some years ago testing skills including AoE DoT's, did not see much impact.
Wonder if database is more of an weak point? Server performance is also just an major problem in Cyrodil as one campaign has to run on one server. Outside of Cyrodil its just to run fewer shards on server.
An old issue was that they prefer to run dungeons and trials on the server the overland shard run on for reasons.

Always suspect the client is lots of the issue. This will obviously get worse as we get more and more styles and mounts.

Cadbury · December 2022

Random thought:

I wonder if people's opinions of Oakensoul would be different if hypothetically, ZOS had somehow made it inactive in Cryodill, IC, and BGs? And would it be more or less popular if it was PvE only?

Lumenn · December 2022

Cadbury wrote: »

Random thought:

I wonder if people's opinions of Oakensoul would be different if hypothetically, ZOS had somehow made it inactive in Cryodill, IC, and BGs? And would it be more or less popular if it was PvE only?

I'm not die hard pvp anymore (have been getting back into it lately though) but I don't think so, especially after the nerf and empower. There are some nitch builds it's useful on,(werewolf) and it's DEFINITELY useful if you don't want to struggle with performance/bar swapping but the hardcore pvp players who play despite the YEARS LONG PERFORMANCE ISSUES ZOS have too many purges, buffs, spamables , debuffs, heals, executioner etc to squeeze on one bar and are not likely to die to a heavy attack build unless you're new, or are already pressed. Ball groups may be another matter but I honestly can't think of one thing that zurgs haven't been able to use to their advantage somehow, even zerg busting sets so...
BGs I honestly couldn't answer though

blue_peaceful_Manticore · December 2022

Reverb wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if everyone was forced to use oakensoul, it would be impossible to clear cloudrest lol

Why should be people be forced to use oakensoul?
Why should be people make perfect rotation?
Why should be many users, buy razor products just to use Razor Macros and make 130k?!
Noone forced you to nothing. You use what's best for your game play.

Why its ok people with Razor Macros do130k damage, but it's not ok allow players with oakensoul to have same damage?!

Why Macros are more important then who buy oakensoul ?!

I think you misunderstood the comment you replied to.

There is a mechanic in Couldrest that forces you to swap bars until the condition expires, otherwise you die and wipe some of the group.

If everyone was forced to use Oakensoul it would actually be impossible to complete
Vet Cloudrest.

That's something ZoS need to fix. Until there, we can't make vCR

Sir_Gentleman777 · December 2022

robpr wrote: »

Oakensoul was a mistake and shouldnt be in the game at all. Makes people extremely lazy. And before "you hate handicapped people!?", no, there are other ways to make game easier for them, like increasing dot timers, autoattacks or toggles, not just showing all possible buffs into an item so they can just press and hold one button for entire fight.

How would this compare to upgrade of the server?
Servers runs 24/7. Their hardware performance deteriorate by about 50% after 5 years. PC EU have almost 10y old hardware and there are a lot of fast ticks checks added to the game (Siphons, Pale Order, Mara's Balm heal, vat destro). Reducing amount of skill cast will do minimal in this case as shown on tests with aoe skill cooldowns we had before. The hardware can't keep up with all the new checks and inefficient codebase.

What percentage of players are NOW using Oakensoul?
From all 5 guilds I am in I know maybe 3 people that actively use it. Some people used it for a bit and went back to 2bar because how boring combat became.

Was Oakensoul nerfed too much?!
My opinion stays the same, shouldn't be in the game at all, but its current iteration is alright. Still should be banned from pvp.

Increasing timers would make people also extremely lazy. You spam your abilities before the fight and just wait until the boss lies dead. You argument doesn't stick. Also if everybody has or can have access to an item, then it is fair for everybody and it might be a you-problem if you don't want to use it out of whatever reason. If everybody uses it and you don't it might be that you are wrong and you are not the measuring tape for everything and everybody. You don't like it, ok, then don''t use it, Period.

What you for example don't account for is that old zones are under-populated. You can have beefy Worldbosses that you can't solo, and people don't want to wait half a year in the hope that another player comes along to help them out. In that case Oakensoul is a god send for many cases. You still have to be good, know how to survive etc. but you can do it on your own. And not everybody is interested in joining guilds with all the drama that is associated or even play with others. Some don't want to be dependant on others.

In your argument you would also need to be against Maelstrom Arena Weapons and perfected trial gear. And as One-Bar builds always have less DPS than a full two bar build you hardly can talk about lazy. These people need to spend more time in fights and thus work harder and longer. The only difference is that they actually have a better survivability and can finish the fight.

Zodiarkslayer · December 2022

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

... When I say my upload/download speed was measured in kb I'm not kidding. I frankly couldn't believe I stayed connected, it defied all logic. ...

PING IS LATENCY, NOT BANDWIDTH.

It is measured in ms and NOT mb/s or kb/s.

And one or two kb/s is enough to play ESO. You want to be in the sub 100ms range though.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2022

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.

If all you do is overland questing, sure, but the second you step into PVP or play end game PVE, it absolutely does.

Original oakensoul allowed people to one shot someone from a horse with a single heavy attack (admittedly, empower was also broken in PVP). It allowed 2-3 button combos that could bomb 20 people are take out a 40k health tank in 2 GCDs. People that never had even sniffed a Trifecta, Flawless, or SS where getting them with almost no effort, that affects balance. Some of us want competitive PVP. Some of us want certain titles to take work to achieve.

The reality is, the content where Oakensoul doesnt effect others game play is the content where its not even remotely necessary to use.

Major_Soulless · December 2022

On ps4 eu I get the same lag with or without oakensoul though I use oakensoul because I have issues with my hands nerve wise so not having to bar swap is a big help

Sarannah · December 2022

Jeejee wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Weapon swap is literally 1 button. It blows my mind people have a problem with that. Why should less effort be rewarded with higher dps? It's just wrong in every way. Why should eso be optimised for handicapped people when it ruins the game for everyone else

How, exactly, does it ruin the game for everyone else?

It ruins the game if they start optimising the game for handicapped players who want weapon swapping removed, rotations removed, weaving removed, any requirements of effort removed and braindead simplified combat so the hardest content becomes ezmode and no vet hm is an achievement anymore

I've yet to see an oak build that does more dps than the "Uber rotation" builds that have perfect ping and work at it. If it helps some(especially those of us with physical issues) do more dmg then great, less crappy dps in pugs and the die hards still get to show off their shiny high numbers. Crab mentality doesn't help anyone, but I guess some people will complain about wheelchair ramps too.

Based on the forum all stairways should be removed so the only path that remains is the wheelchair ramp

Don't think anyone ever asked for barswapping to be removed. To stick with your analogy: we are simply asking for more ways upstairs: Stairs, elevator, wheelchair ramp, climbing rope, firepole, etc. So we can choose what to do/use, without taking away the other options.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Oakensoul was fine for pve, but it was so overpowered for pvp that it warped the game around it. It wasn't just "giving some players opportunities that they normally wouldn't get", it was literally a case of you were forced to run the ring or you couldn't do anything in pvp.

PvP actually became more fair, and burstdamage was no longer an issue. Players that would normally die in 0.2 secs, could now respond to their attacker and fight back somewhat. For the first time ever, they could improve, and make progress in PvP. PvPers didn't like it when players were able to fight back, and asked for burstdamage PvP to be returned. While at the same time PvPers are still complaining noone wants to PvP.

PvPers always want players to build/train for PvP and to become real PvPers, but when PvPers had to adjust from burst/gank-PvP to real PvP fights due to oakensoul, they failed to do so. Complaining about oakensoul was easier, and they (sadly) succeeded.

For the first time, oakensoul enabled real PvP, real fights. I do not consider burstdamage PvP to be actual PvP, PvP should be a fair fight(based on 1 vs 1 experience).

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.

If all you do is overland questing, sure, but the second you step into PVP or play end game PVE, it absolutely does.

Original oakensoul allowed people to one shot someone from a horse with a single heavy attack (admittedly, empower was also broken in PVP). It allowed 2-3 button combos that could bomb 20 people are take out a 40k health tank in 2 GCDs. People that never had even sniffed a Trifecta, Flawless, or SS where getting them with almost no effort, that affects balance. Some of us want competitive PVP. Some of us want certain titles to take work to achieve.

The reality is, the content where Oakensoul doesnt effect others game play is the content where its not even remotely necessary to use.

Those things weren't because of oakensoul, as oakensoul never made anyone stronger than they already were. All players practically already had the buffs they needed, oakensoul didn't change this. Oakensoul only allowed those buffs to be active without using a backbar to activate them. I think you are confusing the empower bug with oakensoul, and your judgement of oakensoul. Oakensoul actually prolonged PvP fights, as players had more armor, resources, and health regen. But hardly ever did it grant more damage, unless someone was already missing a useful damage buff here or there.

At the time oakensoul was unnerfed there was a PvP-event going on, PvP was more fun. Even I liked PvPing then due to oakensoul, as for once there were real fights going on.

PvE-wise: Oakensoul didn't allow players to do trifecta's and all that other stuff in endgame PvE, this was due to the empower bug.

PS: There are old videos of players one-shotting others from their horses, from long before oakensoul. This happens because of the nature of burstdamage PvP.

Lumenn · December 2022

Sarannah wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Weapon swap is literally 1 button. It blows my mind people have a problem with that. Why should less effort be rewarded with higher dps? It's just wrong in every way. Why should eso be optimised for handicapped people when it ruins the game for everyone else

How, exactly, does it ruin the game for everyone else?

It ruins the game if they start optimising the game for handicapped players who want weapon swapping removed, rotations removed, weaving removed, any requirements of effort removed and braindead simplified combat so the hardest content becomes ezmode and no vet hm is an achievement anymore

I've yet to see an oak build that does more dps than the "Uber rotation" builds that have perfect ping and work at it. If it helps some(especially those of us with physical issues) do more dmg then great, less crappy dps in pugs and the die hards still get to show off their shiny high numbers. Crab mentality doesn't help anyone, but I guess some people will complain about wheelchair ramps too.

Based on the forum all stairways should be removed so the only path that remains is the wheelchair ramp

Don't think anyone ever asked for barswapping to be removed. To stick with your analogy: we are simply asking for more ways upstairs: Stairs, elevator, wheelchair ramp, climbing rope, firepole, etc. So we can choose what to do/use, without taking away the other options.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Oakensoul was fine for pve, but it was so overpowered for pvp that it warped the game around it. It wasn't just "giving some players opportunities that they normally wouldn't get", it was literally a case of you were forced to run the ring or you couldn't do anything in pvp.

PvP actually became more fair, and burstdamage was no longer an issue. Players that would normally die in 0.2 secs, could now respond to their attacker and fight back somewhat. For the first time ever, they could improve, and make progress in PvP. PvPers didn't like it when players were able to fight back, and asked for burstdamage PvP to be returned. While at the same time PvPers are still complaining noone wants to PvP.

PvPers always want players to build/train for PvP and to become real PvPers, but when PvPers had to adjust from burst/gank-PvP to real PvP fights due to oakensoul, they failed to do so. Complaining about oakensoul was easier, and they (sadly) succeeded.

For the first time, oakensoul enabled real PvP, real fights. I do not consider burstdamage PvP to be actual PvP, PvP should be a fair fight(based on 1 vs 1 experience).

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.

If all you do is overland questing, sure, but the second you step into PVP or play end game PVE, it absolutely does.

Original oakensoul allowed people to one shot someone from a horse with a single heavy attack (admittedly, empower was also broken in PVP). It allowed 2-3 button combos that could bomb 20 people are take out a 40k health tank in 2 GCDs. People that never had even sniffed a Trifecta, Flawless, or SS where getting them with almost no effort, that affects balance. Some of us want competitive PVP. Some of us want certain titles to take work to achieve.

The reality is, the content where Oakensoul doesnt effect others game play is the content where its not even remotely necessary to use.

Those things weren't because of oakensoul, as oakensoul never made anyone stronger than they already were. All players practically already had the buffs they needed, oakensoul didn't change this. Oakensoul only allowed those buffs to be active without using a backbar to activate them. I think you are confusing the empower bug with oakensoul, and your judgement of oakensoul. Oakensoul actually prolonged PvP fights, as players had more armor, resources, and health regen. But hardly ever did it grant more damage, unless someone was already missing a useful damage buff here or there.

At the time oakensoul was unnerfed there was a PvP-event going on, PvP was more fun. Even I liked PvPing then due to oakensoul, as for once there were real fights going on.

PvE-wise: Oakensoul didn't allow players to do trifecta's and all that other stuff in endgame PvE, this was due to the empower bug.

PS: There are old videos of players one-shotting others from their horses, from long before oakensoul. This happens because of the nature of burstdamage PvP.

Thank you. It's hard to keep repeating that oak builds don't compete with the numbers of people who practice bar swapping. I've played over 6 years and can dummy parse with the best. Oak builds do not compete, especially since empower was looked at in pvp.

Zos actually got one right by raising the floor without lowering the ceiling. But crab mentality and "I suffered in front of a dummy for hours so should everyone!" Doesn't help. I practiced my rotations for hours too and I say go for it. I have 2 characters (out of 10) that use it. Those are my relax builds or for days my arthritis is especially bad. Raise the floor zos and make pugs a bit more tolerable!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2022

Sarannah wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Lumenn wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

Jeejee wrote: »

Weapon swap is literally 1 button. It blows my mind people have a problem with that. Why should less effort be rewarded with higher dps? It's just wrong in every way. Why should eso be optimised for handicapped people when it ruins the game for everyone else

How, exactly, does it ruin the game for everyone else?

It ruins the game if they start optimising the game for handicapped players who want weapon swapping removed, rotations removed, weaving removed, any requirements of effort removed and braindead simplified combat so the hardest content becomes ezmode and no vet hm is an achievement anymore

I've yet to see an oak build that does more dps than the "Uber rotation" builds that have perfect ping and work at it. If it helps some(especially those of us with physical issues) do more dmg then great, less crappy dps in pugs and the die hards still get to show off their shiny high numbers. Crab mentality doesn't help anyone, but I guess some people will complain about wheelchair ramps too.

Based on the forum all stairways should be removed so the only path that remains is the wheelchair ramp

Don't think anyone ever asked for barswapping to be removed. To stick with your analogy: we are simply asking for more ways upstairs: Stairs, elevator, wheelchair ramp, climbing rope, firepole, etc. So we can choose what to do/use, without taking away the other options.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Oakensoul was fine for pve, but it was so overpowered for pvp that it warped the game around it. It wasn't just "giving some players opportunities that they normally wouldn't get", it was literally a case of you were forced to run the ring or you couldn't do anything in pvp.

PvP actually became more fair, and burstdamage was no longer an issue. Players that would normally die in 0.2 secs, could now respond to their attacker and fight back somewhat. For the first time ever, they could improve, and make progress in PvP. PvPers didn't like it when players were able to fight back, and asked for burstdamage PvP to be returned. While at the same time PvPers are still complaining noone wants to PvP.

PvPers always want players to build/train for PvP and to become real PvPers, but when PvPers had to adjust from burst/gank-PvP to real PvP fights due to oakensoul, they failed to do so. Complaining about oakensoul was easier, and they (sadly) succeeded.

For the first time, oakensoul enabled real PvP, real fights. I do not consider burstdamage PvP to be actual PvP, PvP should be a fair fight(based on 1 vs 1 experience).

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.

If all you do is overland questing, sure, but the second you step into PVP or play end game PVE, it absolutely does.

Original oakensoul allowed people to one shot someone from a horse with a single heavy attack (admittedly, empower was also broken in PVP). It allowed 2-3 button combos that could bomb 20 people are take out a 40k health tank in 2 GCDs. People that never had even sniffed a Trifecta, Flawless, or SS where getting them with almost no effort, that affects balance. Some of us want competitive PVP. Some of us want certain titles to take work to achieve.

The reality is, the content where Oakensoul doesnt effect others game play is the content where its not even remotely necessary to use.

Those things weren't because of oakensoul, as oakensoul never made anyone stronger than they already were. All players practically already had the buffs they needed, oakensoul didn't change this. Oakensoul only allowed those buffs to be active without using a backbar to activate them. I think you are confusing the empower bug with oakensoul, and your judgement of oakensoul. Oakensoul actually prolonged PvP fights, as players had more armor, resources, and health regen. But hardly ever did it grant more damage, unless someone was already missing a useful damage buff here or there.

At the time oakensoul was unnerfed there was a PvP-event going on, PvP was more fun. Even I liked PvPing then due to oakensoul, as for once there were real fights going on.

PvE-wise: Oakensoul didn't allow players to do trifecta's and all that other stuff in endgame PvE, this was due to the empower bug.

PS: There are old videos of players one-shotting others from their horses, from long before oakensoul. This happens because of the nature of burstdamage PvP.

Are you kidding me? Of course it did. No build was able to provide all the buffs that the original oakensoul gave, and even if you theoretically could, you would spend half your time on your back bar. Oakensoul allowed players to 1-2 buttom spam their way through vet arenas, DLC HMs etc. How you can say with a straight face that oakensoul didnt make players more powerful is beyond me. The only way you were getting all those buffs is an extremely well organized raid group.

Have your run an vet arena with and without Oakensoul? Original Oakensoul made them trivial. A spam skill and a heal was all you needed.

Did you actually play as a ganker with the original Oakensoul? It was the most broken item this game has ever seen from a ganking perspective. I am no ganker, but I ran the Oakensoul meta gank build on my NB for about a month. It was beyond broken. I could kill darn near anyone with 2 GCDs.

Everest_Lionheart · December 2022

If mythic leads had better RNG and the nerf hammer was a little less volatile I would consider farming for it and play only oakensoul in all content outside of endgame trials. But I would rather deal with the inconvenience of bar swapping while playing actual content than mindless farming for an item that will be rendered all but useless within a year.

I’ve seen this movie before and I already know how it ends.

blue_peaceful_Manticore · December 2022

This was first time i try vHOF HM.
Can anyone explain to me why Oakensoul is bad!?

Did we finish boss\Trial? No
Why? I dont know.... (First time in there)
It was my fault? Maybe
Someone get sad because me and oakensoul have the best damage? No. I try go to healer, noone allow and ask to stay in dd
Did anyone care about my build? No. Not at all.

Then please.... can anyone explain why Oakensoul is so bad for you (im talking to guys with XPTO macros and perfect rotations with 250k damage)

edit: i realy hope, this PrintScreen Follow the forum rules about "Do not post printscreens of our game in our forum"

axi · December 2022

EnKor wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if everyone was forced to use oakensoul, it would be impossible to clear cloudrest lol

Why should be people be forced to use oakensoul?
Why should be people make perfect rotation?
Why should be many users, buy razor products just to use Razor Macros and make 130k?!
Noone forced you to nothing. You use what's best for your game play.

Why its ok people with Razor Macros do130k damage, but it's not ok allow players with oakensoul to have same damage?!

Why Macros are more important then who buy oakensoul ?!

RAZOR MACROS

Yeah, yeah it's all because of razor macros.

blue_peaceful_Manticore · December 2022

axi wrote: »

RAZOR MACROS Yeah, yeah it's all because of razor macros.

Not all (i realy dont belive all use it-.-) . But some... yes ofc. Many people told me to use it befoure Oakensoul. But i refuse buy Razor just because of macros.

axi · December 2022

EnKor wrote: »

axi wrote: »

RAZOR MACROS Yeah, yeah it's all because of razor macros.

Not all (i realy dont belive all use it-.-) . But some... yes ofc. Many people told me to use it befoure Oakensoul. But i refuse buy Razor just because of macros.

If You really belive that there is any macro out there that will let You do 130k DPS on dummy or even better in trial than You are largely mistaken.

blue_peaceful_Manticore · December 2022

axi wrote: »

If You really belive that there is any macro out there that will let You do 130k DPS on dummy or even better in trial than You are largely mistaken.

I dont know at all. But yeah, maybe you have right and there's no razor Macro to help people in rotation.
anyway, i use Oakensoul and im happy with him... until, someone explain to me why he is bad, (vCR dont count... cuz in 3years +/- ZoS will fix this... i hope)