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If, IF all players would use Oakensoul 1 bar builds, how much would serverload and latency decrease?
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virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »if everyone was forced to use oakensoul, it would be impossible to clear cloudrest lol
Why should be people be forced to use oakensoul?
Why should be people make perfect rotation?
Why should be many users, buy razor products just to use Razor Macros and make 130k?!
Noone forced you to nothing. You use what's best for your game play.
Why its ok people with Razor Macros do130k damage, but it's not ok allow players with oakensoul to have same damage?!
Why Macros are more important then who buy oakensoul ?!
If you think it's "ok" with ZOS for people to use macros of any sort, no matter whether that produces 0 or 130k dps, you should have a look at the ToS/CoC.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@EnKor
That is just silly and misguided. One Razer makes excellent hardware. Two, almost any gaming mouse can make macros. Razer does not equal Macro. Three, the best players arent using macros.
I wont say that macros are non-existent in this game, but they arent the reason people parse how they do, clear what the clear, or nuke someone in PVP. I have messed around with macros on the PTS a while back. I once tried to script a 3 mil parse. It didnt work. Even with something as simple as weaving, I was never able to out parse what I could do without them, not even close. One hicup of lag, and a macro will throw you off. I would never use them on live because I like my account. LOL
The only scenario where macro use might be even remotely prevalent is a scripted burst combo in PVP. That said, Macros in lag are a good way to get yourself killed. They lock you into a course of action you cant alter. Good in theory, terrible in practice.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on December 7, 2022 11:29PM0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Major Beserk was far too much. Combine that element with old empower and you got those gankers who mistook their 1 shot builds for being skillful.
Current oakensoul performs the same, if not better for solo players, and is comparable to many prenerf builds for pve due to addition of minor slayer. Yes, there is a downgrade to minor berserk from major, but the minor slayer compensated for that and made it perform the same in PVE.
We shouldn't be asking for reversions to what was appropriately adjusted. Metas adjusted around this and empower, both were appropriately timed nerfs but the nerf to empower lacked a comprehensive view of other skills and abilities that grant it.
and @EnKor people using macros is bannable, report them if you suspect they are using them.Edited by Dr_Con on December 8, 2022 2:28AM4 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hot take: Weapon swap (in combat) should have never been added to the game.
It looks stupid, doesn't make sense, is harder to balance, and complicates rotations. It also lesssens the impact of your skill choice because you have a 2nd bar available at all times. Especially in PvP this promotes a gameplay that puts as many buffs as possible on your "back bar", and due to their short durations establishes a mini game to keep up all your buffs. It's a particular nuisance I'm unfamiliar with from other MMOs.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.7 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If, IF all players would use Oakensoul 1 bar builds, how much would serverload and latency decrease?
Oakensoul gives you 17 effects that the server has to keep track of, while a two bar build would add 5 single effects, and the possibility of some multi-effects. So logic dictates that the Oakensoul build would be more "serverload" intensive.
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".... @EnKor people using macros is bannable, report them if you suspect they are using them.
Last time i report someone this was the result:- I post a printscreen in forum: I got banned for some days
- I report in forum about how people got nodeath achiv: I got banned some days
- I try to report exp bug where you can farm infinite exp: I dont get banned cuz i edit topic.
- Some players still use Macros
- They keep selling carry runs when they kill you, to give you nodeath achivm
- you can get infinite EXP
I dont care about anyone who use Macros, bots or anything else. Today, i pass trough pack of people farming infinite exp and do i care? No. There's alot of bugs i know about and i don't care anymore at all...
But i like OakenSoul
Edited by blue_peaceful_Manticore on December 8, 2022 8:11AM1 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭Hot take: Weapon swap (in combat) should have never been added to the game.
It looks stupid, doesn't make sense, is harder to balance, and complicates rotations. It also lesssens the impact of your skill choice because you have a 2nd bar available at all times. Especially in PvP this promotes a gameplay that puts as many buffs as possible on your "back bar", and due to their short durations establishes a mini game to keep up all your buffs. It's a particular nuisance I'm unfamiliar with from other MMOs.
You should be lucky as other MMO's as much worse with their skill UI, makes ESO's UI look like child's 1st MMO in comparison.0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭".... @EnKor people using macros is bannable, report them if you suspect they are using them.
Last time i report someone this was the result:- I post a printscreen in forum: I got banned for some days
- I report in forum about how people got nodeath achiv: I got banned some days
- I try to report exp bug where you can farm infinite exp: I dont get banned cuz i edit topic.
- Some players still use Macros
- They keep selling carry runs when they kill you, to give you nodeath achivm
- you can get infinite EXP
I dont care about anyone who use Macros, bots or anything else. Today, i pass trough pack of people farming infinite exp and do i care? No. There's alot of bugs i know about and i don't care anymore at all...
But i like OakenSoul
I'll word this carefully because my recollection of these posts is vague and discussing disciplinary action is best done with the staff.
For #1 you have to watch out for naming and shaming, and when you name and shame an exploiter on these forums realize the fact that you are giving them a chance to defend themselves and make up lies. It is borderline to speak in generalities (i.e. "certain endgamers are using macros and I have proof but lazy ZOS isn't doing anything about it" but viewers and staffcan perceive it as toxic and it hurts your message. I don't recall seeing this thread.
for #2, I don't really want to repeat what the mods may have told you, but you were posting how people were abusing the exploits in more of a sensationalist way in the general discussion, not in bug reports (correct me if I am wrong but this was the DK bug that got hotfixed and specifically had to do with Rockgrove). This is also a way the bug got spread more quickly on these forums and people may have even done or attempted the trifectas because of it. You need to be careful about what you post. I've personally called out people for posts where they share exploits and have gotten warned even if i had 10+ people agreeing with me, simply because someone reported it and they had to action the report.
For #3 I saw the edited version and you seemed to have posted to try and get the attention of a community rep, like the exploit was life or death. In this situation it's better to calmly report and show who is abusing, as has been seen they do deal with people who exploit- but they need to investigate.
If a player does all the investigating, then the staff are less likely to trust the data- they want to see and uncover the truth with their own eyes. The exception is when it is undeniable proof and you can prove someone is maliciously exploiting a bug for gain- but you still don't want to post about it publicly.
I just wanted to mention your recent screenshot/post about an oakensoul argument, I see you toeing the line a lot and breaking obvious common sense rules- some of this stuff is more appropriate for external forums/discords/reddit but is expressly not allowed here. I don't agree with all the moderation they do here, but they need to maintain some level of decorum.Edited by Dr_Con on December 8, 2022 11:15AM3 -
I'll word this carefully because my recollection of these posts is vague and discussing disciplinary action is best done with the staff.
For #1 you have to watch out for naming and shaming, and when you name and shame an exploiter on these forums realize the fact that you are giving them a chance to defend themselves and make up lies. It is borderline to speak in generalities (i.e. "certain endgamers are using macros and I have proof but lazy ZOS isn't doing anything about it" but viewers and staffcan perceive it as toxic and it hurts your message. I don't recall seeing this thread.
for #2, I don't really want to repeat what the mods may have told you, but you were posting how people were abusing the exploits in more of a sensationalist way in the general discussion, not in bug reports (correct me if I am wrong but this was the DK bug that got hotfixed and specifically had to do with Rockgrove). This is also a way the bug got spread more quickly on these forums and people may have even done or attempted the trifectas because of it. You need to be careful about what you post. I've personally called out people for posts where they share exploits and have gotten warned even if i had 10+ people agreeing with me, simply because someone reported it and they had to action the report.
For #3 I saw the edited version and you seemed to have posted to try and get the attention of a community rep, like the exploit was life or death. In this situation it's better to calmly report and show who is abusing, as has been seen they do deal with people who exploit- but they need to investigate.
If a player does all the investigating, then the staff are less likely to trust the data- they want to see and uncover the truth with their own eyes. The exception is when it is undeniable proof and you can prove someone is maliciously exploiting a bug for gain- but you still don't want to post about it publicly.
I just wanted to mention your recent screenshot/post about an oakensoul argument, I see you toeing the line a lot and breaking obvious common sense rules- some of this stuff is more appropriate for external forums/discords/reddit but is expressly not allowed here. I don't agree with all the moderation they do here, but they need to maintain some level of decorum.
1# You can't post any screenshot with player names (noone care if it's a nice one or not) people will flag you and you will be banned
2# Did i report bug in correct place? Maybe not. But a report is a report and a bug is a bug. Before i get banned, did any mod say: "Thank you for report the bug to us. We will send that to the team, but since you did report wrong you will be banned". No. Simple Ban. Nothing more!
3# And from that moment, i realy dont care anymore about bugs\report bugs\tell what i know or anyother thing like that.
......."... I don't agree with all the moderation they do here, but they need to maintain some level of decorum.
All i care about is Oakensoul, and tell all players the ring is good. Even if Elite players dont like it0 -
INM✭✭✭✭It's a shame that this topic has to be discussed at all. I have never seen in any game that balance decisions were impacted by server performance.
And what with all this talk about macros'? It's just bulshitting on people who're doing big dps. No good player will be using them, they are unreliable even in an absolutely static environment.0 -
It's a shame that this topic has to be discussed at all. I have never seen in any game that balance decisions were impacted by server performance.
And what with all this talk about macros'? It's just bulshitting on people who're doing big dps. No good player will be using them, they are unreliable even in an absolutely static environment.
I never say how good they are. I say "people use it, cuz many told me to do the same", what waht you have said, only prove people have use it... and they dont like it cuz it was a bad macro "even in an absolutely static environment"0 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would appear this thread has open old wounds... 😔No Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!5 -
[snip] This is one of the worst items every added for gear. [snip] This will be nerfed again and again so im not really worried. [snip]
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 11, 2023 3:34PM2 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭Weapon swap is literally 1 button. It blows my mind people have a problem with that. Why should less effort be rewarded with higher dps? It's just wrong in every way. Why should eso be optimised for handicapped people when it ruins the game for everyone else
How, exactly, does it ruin the game for everyone else?
It ruins the game if they start optimising the game for handicapped players who want weapon swapping removed, rotations removed, weaving removed, any requirements of effort removed and braindead simplified combat so the hardest content becomes ezmode and no vet hm is an achievement anymore
Oakensoul was already nerfed from having pretty much all MAJOR buffs to now mostly MINOR buffs. And the WHOLE purpose of the ring was to give players who either have issues with bar swapping or just can't seem to be able to tackle certain content an opportunity to succeed.
How about this; rather than complain that it's ruining the game, maybe appreciate that one measly item out of hundreds (or thousands) is giving SOME players opportunities that they wouldn't normally get, which in turn is helping them ENJOY the game THEIR way.
You play the game your way in your style, and yet you don't see me complaining about it...so just let me play the game my way in a way that makes the game enjoyable to me.
Oakensoul is seen as a tool to compensate handicapped for their handicap and reduce the gap between them and not handicapped players, but it often made one bar players stronger than two bar players and allowed then to do things two bar players couldnt like perma defensive ultimate builds, much stronger oneshot gankers or stronger full tanks. Deltias gaming nd malcolm pvp builds have builds for one bar PvP tanks but no builds for 2bar PvP tanks. Many buffs like full uptime major heroism are not available to 2bar players and even to strong for a 5 piece boni without drawback. Sea serpents coil gives only 2 of the 14 buffs old oakensoul had for a fat 40% speed penalty. Changing some of the major buffs to minor was really necessary, you even got new minor buffs and empower that you didnt had before.
Oakensoul on bar builds are still much stronger than non oakensoul one bar builds(even werewolf), non oakensoul one bar builds are practically incomplete and wrong played 2bar builds. It should reduce the gap between onebar and 2bar players, not completely eleminate it r turn it into opposite,
PvP Players that were good playing with 2 bars and had no problem with it and no interest to play without bar swap bought High Isle chapter just to get oakensoul because it still made them stronger and allowed them to do things they otherwise couldnt do.
It’s like a prothesis for people with one hand has integrated blade and crossbow and is so good that people with two hands cut off one of their hands(except you can take off oakensoul to get two bars again and it is not so painful) to wear it or somehow wear it over their normal hand.Necrotech_Master wrote: »if everyone was forced to use oakensoul, it would be impossible to clear cloudrest lol
It's the only time I don't use it. I really love it for everything else.
On my main (For example) I want to play an archer.
Not an archer with two bows.
Not an archer that casts spells.
An archer like Legolas in LotR, that type of class fantasy. Oakensoul allows me to do that.
I love it.
Legolas had also 2 daggers backbarThe unnerfed Oakensoul was a godsend, and we should get many more items like it. I also feel Oakensoul was nerfed WAY too much. Oakensoul made one bar builds, which are the only thing I use, more durable(not stronger). And it made PvP more fun, as it was no longer about bursting players down in 0.2 secs.
Personally I do think using oakensoul takes off some of the serverload, as players don't use backbar buffs, timers, and bar-swapping. Should save about 20% of the calculations per player versus a player who is regular two bar/weaving, due to less calculations. In the grand scheme of things, this is probably not noticable, as for the server itself it is probably less than 0.0001% of a difference. (Most of the things the server is busy with, are not done by players: Spawning mobs, resetting instances, spawning containers, rolling loot, rolling amount of loot, etc)
As I am not really into mythic farming, I am only using oakensoul on two of my builds. My power stayed about the same, but I have more resources to play with. So yes, it was nerfed too much!
PS: Latency isn't a server thing, latency is about how fast/stable your connection to the server actually is.
PPS: Can't comment on the new EU servers, as they are not yet released/installed.
Oakensoul made bursting down players in 0,2 seconds much easier.
Don't think anyone ever asked for barswapping to be removed. To stick with your analogy: we are simply asking for more ways upstairs: Stairs, elevator, wheelchair ramp, climbing rope, firepole, etc. So we can choose what to do/use, without taking away the other options.Weapon swap is literally 1 button. It blows my mind people have a problem with that. Why should less effort be rewarded with higher dps? It's just wrong in every way. Why should eso be optimised for handicapped people when it ruins the game for everyone else
How, exactly, does it ruin the game for everyone else?
It ruins the game if they start optimising the game for handicapped players who want weapon swapping removed, rotations removed, weaving removed, any requirements of effort removed and braindead simplified combat so the hardest content becomes ezmode and no vet hm is an achievement anymore
I've yet to see an oak build that does more dps than the "Uber rotation" builds that have perfect ping and work at it. If it helps some(especially those of us with physical issues) do more dmg then great, less crappy dps in pugs and the die hards still get to show off their shiny high numbers. Crab mentality doesn't help anyone, but I guess some people will complain about wheelchair ramps too.
Based on the forum all stairways should be removed so the only path that remains is the wheelchair ramp
PvP actually became more fair, and burstdamage was no longer an issue. Players that would normally die in 0.2 secs, could now respond to their attacker and fight back somewhat. For the first time ever, they could improve, and make progress in PvP. PvPers didn't like it when players were able to fight back, and asked for burstdamage PvP to be returned. While at the same time PvPers are still complaining noone wants to PvP.Turtle_Bot wrote: »Oakensoul was fine for pve, but it was so overpowered for pvp that it warped the game around it. It wasn't just "giving some players opportunities that they normally wouldn't get", it was literally a case of you were forced to run the ring or you couldn't do anything in pvp.
PvPers always want players to build/train for PvP and to become real PvPers, but when PvPers had to adjust from burst/gank-PvP to real PvP fights due to oakensoul, they failed to do so. Complaining about oakensoul was easier, and they (sadly) succeeded.
For the first time, oakensoul enabled real PvP, real fights. I do not consider burstdamage PvP to be actual PvP, PvP should be a fair fight(based on 1 vs 1 experience).
Those things weren't because of oakensoul, as oakensoul never made anyone stronger than they already were. All players practically already had the buffs they needed, oakensoul didn't change this. Oakensoul only allowed those buffs to be active without using a backbar to activate them. I think you are confusing the empower bug with oakensoul, and your judgement of oakensoul. Oakensoul actually prolonged PvP fights, as players had more armor, resources, and health regen. But hardly ever did it grant more damage, unless someone was already missing a useful damage buff here or there.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »Me using Oakensoul ring has zero effect on you.
If all you do is overland questing, sure, but the second you step into PVP or play end game PVE, it absolutely does.
Original oakensoul allowed people to one shot someone from a horse with a single heavy attack (admittedly, empower was also broken in PVP). It allowed 2-3 button combos that could bomb 20 people are take out a 40k health tank in 2 GCDs. People that never had even sniffed a Trifecta, Flawless, or SS where getting them with almost no effort, that affects balance. Some of us want competitive PVP. Some of us want certain titles to take work to achieve.
The reality is, the content where Oakensoul doesnt effect others game play is the content where its not even remotely necessary to use.
At the time oakensoul was unnerfed there was a PvP-event going on, PvP was more fun. Even I liked PvPing then due to oakensoul, as for once there were real fights going on.
PvE-wise: Oakensoul didn't allow players to do trifecta's and all that other stuff in endgame PvE, this was due to the empower bug.
PS: There are old videos of players one-shotting others from their horses, from long before oakensoul. This happens because of the nature of burstdamage PvP.
Oakensoul meta was much more about burst than non Oakensoul meta and Oakensoul builds could burst much faster than non Oakensoul builds. I disagree with almost everything you said.blue_peaceful_Manticore wrote: »Oakensoul should be 100% free for all players and should be in base game.
Many players can't make rotation
Many players don't care at all with rotation
Many players only wanna have some damage to make content
Many players have to buy Oakensoul
Many players are penalize by ZoS because they dont buy Oakensoul. No rotation, no Money, no damage.... penalized by ZoS.
You will never make HM, because you're not good enought and ZoS know that... Buy it or Forget it.
An Oakensoul Ring scaling with character level could be placed in Inventory when creating a new char when it wouldnt be too strong. New Players with handicap probably dont know about oakensoul at first, than have to buy chapters, have to level scrying and dig up Oakensoul and play two handed builds in this time when they are new to the game least likely to have learned how to barswap yet. It is strange that players coming from Skyrim are expected to be able to put together a heavy attack Oakensoul build themselve but not learn the ESO combat system. Somehow building wrong is often much worse than fighting wrong.
Edited by Iriidius on June 11, 2023 5:01PM1 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭blue_peaceful_Manticore wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »if everyone was forced to use oakensoul, it would be impossible to clear cloudrest lol
Why should be people be forced to use oakensoul?
Why should be people make perfect rotation?
Why should be many users, buy razor products just to use Razor Macros and make 130k?!
Noone forced you to nothing. You use what's best for your game play.
Why its ok people with Razor Macros do130k damage, but it's not ok allow players with oakensoul to have same damage?!
Why Macros are more important then who buy oakensoul ?!
Because mastering a onebar build is much easier than mastering a twobar build and probably as difficult as doing a twobar rotation with a few flaws reaching maybe 80-90k(dont know how much, not playing trials and onebar builds).
Never heard about Razor Macros beeing required, but sounds like something hardcore tryharder would use to get a bit higher dps. But if you compare a simplified onebar rotation to a much more complicated two bar rotation even using macros than it should be clear why second one deals more dmg, because otherwise noone would use it. Two bar rotation have higher probabilty of flaws and would do lower dps if not done perfectly otherwise.If, IF all players would use Oakensoul 1 bar builds, how much would serverload and latency decrease?
Oakensoul gives you 17 effects that the server has to keep track of, while a two bar build would add 5 single effects, and the possibility of some multi-effects. So logic dictates that the Oakensoul build would be more "serverload" intensive.
I dont think having unconditional full uptime effekts requires so much calculations, at least probably much less than when they have a proc condition that has to be checked, a duration and cooldown or get lost when barswapping. Oakensoul even works in nocp. But at the end it probably doesnt make a big difference if at all, definitely not comparable with the server upgrades.
Are you Sure 6 month is enaugh for a thread to get shut down? Topic is still relevant.@ZOS_Icy this thread is from 6 months ago
Edited by Iriidius on June 12, 2023 12:42PM2 -
SandandStars✭✭✭✭✭I’ve got no problem with Oakensoul, but I’m 99% PVP where it’s actually a bit underpowered vs a 2-bar build.
To address OPs original question, I don’t think it would affect latency or server load much. ZOS is constantly introducing complex new proc sets, as well as a new class with… dramatic visuals & effects.
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M0ntie✭✭✭✭✭System tuning is a complex process and I don’t see what this post making wild guesses about the effect of Oakenshield builds is doing except stirring up the pro and anti Oaken groups.
IMO Oaken builds increase the access to more content and more enjoyment of the game by more players, which is great. And it’s not OP because a skilled 2 bar build can outperform it.0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭System tuning is a complex process and I don’t see what this post making wild guesses about the effect of Oakenshield builds is doing except stirring up the pro and anti Oaken groups.
IMO Oaken builds increase the access to more content and more enjoyment of the game by more players, which is great. And it’s not OP because a skilled 2 bar build can outperform it.
Eh, the point is thatit's a 6 month old post. It's all "old new" at this point.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
Rishikesa108✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oakensoul was a mistake and shouldnt be in the game at all. Makes people extremely lazy.
I'm just playing a game. I like to be extremely lazy. I have not to be lazy when I go to work.Why should eso be optimised for handicapped people when it ruins the game for everyone else
How can someone's build ruin someone else's game? everyone is free to wear Oakensoul or not, to use 1 or 2 bars, to use HA builds or LA weaving. Nobody spoils the game of others, except of those who want to earn to bring the less skilled to make end-game content. Only these can complain about lower business and income, no one else can complain. And don't say that you suffer from envy because someone with less effort has achieved the same results as others who have made a lot of effort: this is the reasoning of jealous kids. Play as you like and don't look at what others are doing, just look at yourself and live happily.
Edited by Rishikesa108 on June 12, 2023 3:00AMMan did not weave the web of life – he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself4 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rishikesa108 wrote: »Oakensoul was a mistake and shouldnt be in the game at all. Makes people extremely lazy.
I'm just playing a game. I like to be extremely lazy. I have not to be lazy when I go to work.Why should eso be optimised for handicapped people when it ruins the game for everyone else
How can someone's build ruin someone else's game? everyone is free to wear Oakensoul or not, to use 1 or 2 bars, to use HA builds or LA weaving. Nobody spoils the game of others, except of those who want to earn to bring the less skilled to make end-game content. Only these can complain about lower business and income, no one else can complain. And don't say that you suffer from envy because someone with less effort has achieved the same results as others who have made a lot of effort: this is the reasoning of jealous kids. Play as you like and don't look at what others are doing, just look at yourself and live happily.
The problem arises when the person using a "suspect build" (there are others - Oak sorc HA isn't the only culprit) is queueing for group content. THAT is the issue here.
If those using a "suspect build" were builiding their own groups, or pulling group members from a guild, no one would be complaining (um, outside of some folks who just feel threatened by what HA Oak builds can do, especially sorc).
The problem is that some people in this game have some serious angst about Oakensoul users. I use Oak myself - but I don't use HA at all, I hate it. I don't want my 1 bar non-HA builds nerfed any more than they have been already - but it looks as if that's what may happen. I won't be happy for sure - the only connection available to me (other than.... um, yeah.... dialup) is satellite - so things like bar swap and roll dodge are just not viable.... bar swap happens about once in 25 tries. So yeah.... not a viable playstyle for me.
But 1 bar Oak lets me survive the stuff I haven't been able to do since I started playing this game. You know how there's all those posts about how easy overland is?
It's NOT easy for me with 750 ms + ping.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
the "bump" was someone bashing/inciting. The OP is no longer an active part of the discussion. These threads have been done to death and usually result in getting locked and certain people making alt accounts to post their recycled opinions.2
Yeah, yeah it's all because of razor macros.