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been healing a bunch of VET dungeons during this event and noticed a trend with fake tanks
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SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭Just think seriously.
A lot of old players do not already play. Some of us do not already care what they will change, because with constant changes and netfs now I as example do not like all the system.
For me this game is dead in combat part. It is boring, not interesting and to simple.
I liked build craft before. Now with hybridisation it looks like one build and the same skills - nothing better than old MMO rpgs.
It is not balanced, skills do not press some times the same time. Each update sone thing you use can be nerfed to the ground even if it was from start in the game.
So why do I need to care
It is more funny if they really do such change. Just imagine completely dead dunguans ))) like current claglorn with nTrials )))
Just let new players get what they want ))) I think it will be good life lesson )))0 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Veinblood1965 wrote: »Simple really. Once you play let's say three dungeons total or something like that as a tank or a healer you are LOCKED into that role permanently until you but a Role Respec Token or go to a Role Respec Shrine and pay 40,000 gold.
I don't even know how this would help with anything. It won't come to pass but would probably lead to more fake tanking, not less.2 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »Veinblood1965 wrote: »Simple really. Once you play let's say three dungeons total or something like that as a tank or a healer you are LOCKED into that role permanently until you but a Role Respec Token or go to a Role Respec Shrine and pay 40,000 gold.
I don't even know how this would help with anything. It won't come to pass but would probably lead to more fake tanking, not less.
Yes, but a lot of players who plays different roles on one character lose some money
If they lose money - may be it makes some ones happy, I do not know the idea of such idea )))1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Also dressing room on pc, my magplar can be both dd and healer and a combination.Veinblood1965 wrote: »Simple really. Once you play let's say three dungeons total or something like that as a tank or a healer you are LOCKED into that role permanently until you but a Role Respec Token or go to a Role Respec Shrine and pay 40,000 gold.
That wouldn’t work… Armory. Also you can be a real healer on the same build as a magicka dps, just change skills and gear.
I tend to start off as DD with off heals in the original vet dungeons and look at how much damage the group takes so I adjust also often switch to healer on bosses who do lots of damage, second last boss in CoH2 I go healer even in normal.
So I prefer to queue as healer, but if other want to heal I queue as DD.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »They could always do what another mmorpg did a few years ago, and that's to nerf self heals. It was an unpopular decision at the time, but then people adjusted, everyone started to appreciate healers and tanks more, and there was better overall role standards in group content.
That would break the solo arenas though.
You would adjust the solo arenas to match. Give them ways to heal, have items they can interact with during encounters to heal, have to use potions to heal. It wouldn't break the solo content.
No. Show me a pov of you doing VVH with no self heals at all. Forget about trifectas. How about vet cloudrest? Gonna portal with no self heals? On a time limit? Potions will never keep up with that damage, the cool down is way too long. You would have to take 4 healers into that trial. 2- to run around downstairs with the DPS, one to kite upstairs and one to heal group. Your min dps would have to be through the roof to clear because now you gotta sacrifice 2 additional dd spots. People going into maelstrom for the first time would just give up. Self heals are integral to many parts of the game. What about pvp? Whatcha gonna do? Have 25 sigils outside each keep?
Other MMOs have much much harder content w/o this level of self heals. It needs to be reduced. Frankly too all of them if DD didn't stand in stupid so much. That's why the self heals are needed here. So many DD I see think big red dumb means stand here then complain when they die.2 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »boi_anachronism_ wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »They could always do what another mmorpg did a few years ago, and that's to nerf self heals. It was an unpopular decision at the time, but then people adjusted, everyone started to appreciate healers and tanks more, and there was better overall role standards in group content.
That would break the solo arenas though.
You would adjust the solo arenas to match. Give them ways to heal, have items they can interact with during encounters to heal, have to use potions to heal. It wouldn't break the solo content.
No. Show me a pov of you doing VVH with no self heals at all. Forget about trifectas. How about vet cloudrest? Gonna portal with no self heals? On a time limit? Potions will never keep up with that damage, the cool down is way too long. You would have to take 4 healers into that trial. 2- to run around downstairs with the DPS, one to kite upstairs and one to heal group. Your min dps would have to be through the roof to clear because now you gotta sacrifice 2 additional dd spots. People going into maelstrom for the first time would just give up. Self heals are integral to many parts of the game. What about pvp? Whatcha gonna do? Have 25 sigils outside each keep?
Other MMOs have much much harder content w/o this level of self heals. It needs to be reduced. Frankly too all of them if DD didn't stand in stupid so much. That's why the self heals are needed here. So many DD I see think big red dumb means stand here then complain when they die.
Harder content without self heals means that dds who are playing mechanics can avoid almost all incoming damage. That's not really practical in the eso cases that have been mentioned.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »boi_anachronism_ wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »They could always do what another mmorpg did a few years ago, and that's to nerf self heals. It was an unpopular decision at the time, but then people adjusted, everyone started to appreciate healers and tanks more, and there was better overall role standards in group content.
That would break the solo arenas though.
You would adjust the solo arenas to match. Give them ways to heal, have items they can interact with during encounters to heal, have to use potions to heal. It wouldn't break the solo content.
No. Show me a pov of you doing VVH with no self heals at all. Forget about trifectas. How about vet cloudrest? Gonna portal with no self heals? On a time limit? Potions will never keep up with that damage, the cool down is way too long. You would have to take 4 healers into that trial. 2- to run around downstairs with the DPS, one to kite upstairs and one to heal group. Your min dps would have to be through the roof to clear because now you gotta sacrifice 2 additional dd spots. People going into maelstrom for the first time would just give up. Self heals are integral to many parts of the game. What about pvp? Whatcha gonna do? Have 25 sigils outside each keep?
Other MMOs have much much harder content w/o this level of self heals. It needs to be reduced. Frankly too all of them if DD didn't stand in stupid so much. That's why the self heals are needed here. So many DD I see think big red dumb means stand here then complain when they die.
But there are literally encounters that require self heals in THIS game. This isn't other games.
And SOLO arenas are 1 form of that content. And certain trial mechanics are another form of that. It isn't a case of standing in stupid. It is a case of game design requiring self heals.
Which is perfectly fine.
Edited to add that the removal of self heals also severely hurts 4 man groups. Especially in situations where a healer or tank dies. Being able to survive with a bit of self healing is sometimes crucial to not having a wipe with a teammates death. Your idea of reducing self heals would basically make any player deaths in dungeons complete wipes for the most part, especially if the healer goes down. No one will be able to res them in a lot of encounters in vet content.Edited by jaws343 on October 31, 2022 4:10PM0 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t punish me because I can do high dps and benefit from the heals the dps gives me with my build for solo small scale play.
You want to fix it? Make the group finder intelligent by whoever slots themselves as a tank must have a certain amount of resist. A sword n board at least on one bar. And taunts on their skill slots that they cannot remove. This is a group finder issue Not a healing issue.0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭You can play tank differently in this game.
The same time there are not a lot of tanks who will go random dunguans.
So it will be choise between nothing in finder and nothing on finder with sword and shield ))))1 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭i will always ask "why fake tank you make some dungeons undoable" or "if your going to fake tank at least wait for the healer"
and the responce i get almost every time is "why have a tank/healer when i can self heal just as good"
and it made some sense, WHY tank or heal if you can deal high damage AND healing? self healing is so good that theres no reason to not have one, why have 2 damage, 1 tank and 1 healer when you can faceroll even the harder VET dungeons as 4 damage with strong self heals?
the easy cure would be to just force assigned roles a roll based buff, tank deals 10% less damage but recieves 5% less damage and 10% magicka/stam cost reduction, healers deal 10% less damage but have 10% increased magicka+stam regen (i would say healing increase but healing on a healer is already pretty high) and damage would get 10% damage increase and 5% stam/magicka regen but 15% less self healing.
but you can bet people will get salty over losing their "play anyway you want" being nerfed (more like cheese any way) but unless a better solution comes up this would honestly be the better option because right now bad habbits are reinforced due to how easy it is to be "hybrid" since self healing scales with your aggressive stats
Problem is the base game provides to strong of a heal right now and many abilities can provide similar debuff/buff to the group that should be left to the support roles but are now being provided by DPS as players start to mix and match gear sets to get optimize buff/debuff without relying on a tank or healer.
Game isn't really play your way. It is more like play a DPS and throw on some tank or healer gear when you go to a trail or want to be a pain in PVP.
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svendf✭✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »boi_anachronism_ wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »They could always do what another mmorpg did a few years ago, and that's to nerf self heals. It was an unpopular decision at the time, but then people adjusted, everyone started to appreciate healers and tanks more, and there was better overall role standards in group content.
That would break the solo arenas though.
You would adjust the solo arenas to match. Give them ways to heal, have items they can interact with during encounters to heal, have to use potions to heal. It wouldn't break the solo content.
No. Show me a pov of you doing VVH with no self heals at all. Forget about trifectas. How about vet cloudrest? Gonna portal with no self heals? On a time limit? Potions will never keep up with that damage, the cool down is way too long. You would have to take 4 healers into that trial. 2- to run around downstairs with the DPS, one to kite upstairs and one to heal group. Your min dps would have to be through the roof to clear because now you gotta sacrifice 2 additional dd spots. People going into maelstrom for the first time would just give up. Self heals are integral to many parts of the game. What about pvp? Whatcha gonna do? Have 25 sigils outside each keep?
Other MMOs have much much harder content w/o this level of self heals. It needs to be reduced. Frankly too all of them if DD didn't stand in stupid so much. That's why the self heals are needed here. So many DD I see think big red dumb means stand here then complain when they die.
Harder content without self heals means that dds who are playing mechanics can avoid almost all incoming damage. That's not really practical in the eso cases that have been mentioned.
Playing an MMO with an character without self heal just mean I trust the healer or in some content four of them. If you get grouped with people new on the job. It´s just ok.
ESO is another animal. I will go as fare as saying, it´s easy excluding player´s, who don´t fancy playing DD. Doing harder content will not make it better - a learning process will.
In other MMO´s the role you play and learn are important and remove some stress. The higher you get in content stress will be added.
Selfheals are too powerfull in ESO, for the simple fact you can exclude one or two roles. This and other unfortunaded additions made to ESO and some minor as well. Will or can have an negative impact if you wanna run harder content.
If it goes really bad for ESO, Im eager to see their plan to save it all. We will see, where it all ends and hope ZOS will get their head out of their bubble. What I see is people don´t know, what ZOS are aiming for, other than making content more accesseble to people. That´s fine. What are their plan to do so ? How are their thinking ?
It doesn´t really matter, what people on these forums beleive or think - me included. What matters is, what does ZOS think ?
Im in a secure place or att least I hope I am and from that perspective I really don´t care. Imhere to observe, where it all ends and make a comment here and there, because I still have an ESO account.
Beleive it or not. Outside ESO community people are following, what´s going on.
Good luck
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SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »i will always ask "why fake tank you make some dungeons undoable" or "if your going to fake tank at least wait for the healer"
and the responce i get almost every time is "why have a tank/healer when i can self heal just as good"
and it made some sense, WHY tank or heal if you can deal high damage AND healing? self healing is so good that theres no reason to not have one, why have 2 damage, 1 tank and 1 healer when you can faceroll even the harder VET dungeons as 4 damage with strong self heals?
the easy cure would be to just force assigned roles a roll based buff, tank deals 10% less damage but recieves 5% less damage and 10% magicka/stam cost reduction, healers deal 10% less damage but have 10% increased magicka+stam regen (i would say healing increase but healing on a healer is already pretty high) and damage would get 10% damage increase and 5% stam/magicka regen but 15% less self healing.
but you can bet people will get salty over losing their "play anyway you want" being nerfed (more like cheese any way) but unless a better solution comes up this would honestly be the better option because right now bad habbits are reinforced due to how easy it is to be "hybrid" since self healing scales with your aggressive stats
Problem is the base game provides to strong of a heal right now and many abilities can provide similar debuff/buff to the group that should be left to the support roles but are now being provided by DPS as players start to mix and match gear sets to get optimize buff/debuff without relying on a tank or healer.
Game isn't really play your way. It is more like play a DPS and throw on some tank or healer gear when you go to a trail or want to be a pain in PVP.
If say trully current combat system is worse than any MMO I played before. They nerf all good that game had.
I now play 2 games of 2003 year. Those games battle system is much better than TESO current combat system. Skills do press and it is much interesting to play. Even with fact that yhey are P2W. Even so combat there is much more fun. It is better than PaL (player vs lag and bugs). Later MMO have even better combat system. What ZOS do to their game is worse than games had in 2003 years !
Yes world in TESO is better, graphics is good. But they completely destroy combat system.
This game becomes not interesting to play.
So as you see game lose 15%of players and that was old exp players.
And only 2-3 years ago this game was best on the market. It was interesting to play, it was really good mmo.
Now if compare it with 2003 years game - they are more interesting to play. They just ruined combat system of this game.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on October 31, 2022 5:19PM0 -
svendf✭✭✭✭MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »i will always ask "why fake tank you make some dungeons undoable" or "if your going to fake tank at least wait for the healer"
and the responce i get almost every time is "why have a tank/healer when i can self heal just as good"
and it made some sense, WHY tank or heal if you can deal high damage AND healing? self healing is so good that theres no reason to not have one, why have 2 damage, 1 tank and 1 healer when you can faceroll even the harder VET dungeons as 4 damage with strong self heals?
the easy cure would be to just force assigned roles a roll based buff, tank deals 10% less damage but recieves 5% less damage and 10% magicka/stam cost reduction, healers deal 10% less damage but have 10% increased magicka+stam regen (i would say healing increase but healing on a healer is already pretty high) and damage would get 10% damage increase and 5% stam/magicka regen but 15% less self healing.
but you can bet people will get salty over losing their "play anyway you want" being nerfed (more like cheese any way) but unless a better solution comes up this would honestly be the better option because right now bad habbits are reinforced due to how easy it is to be "hybrid" since self healing scales with your aggressive stats
Problem is the base game provides to strong of a heal right now and many abilities can provide similar debuff/buff to the group that should be left to the support roles but are now being provided by DPS as players start to mix and match gear sets to get optimize buff/debuff without relying on a tank or healer.
Game isn't really play your way. It is more like play a DPS and throw on some tank or healer gear when you go to a trail or want to be a pain in PVP.
Yes. Pretty much, what you say and some more additions they have made. There isn´t really any reason to play a tank or healer in ESO, for that you have to go somewhere else.1 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭rootkitronin wrote: »Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »I, as a healer/Tank main, find fake DPS to be much worse. Not even a joke. And there is SO MUCH of them recently.
Fake DPS? How does that even work? An what kind of content are you talking about?
I can understand poor or bad DPS, but fake?
I thought for healer and tank roles you generally have to spec into specific skills and functions - that leaves DPS as just the default. So is it more just very poorly optimized/performing DPS, or am I missing some way people are "faking" the role?
A human that a no better than a bot (companion) is definitely a fake. The opportunity cost to replace them is zero (sometimes negative).
Intent is not something objectively measurable. I see no willingness to perform any duty from these people, while you claim you see different intent.
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Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭Basically, what is it that makes a tank, a healer or a DPS?
Disregarding the knowledge to play the role, it is simply gear and skills... does a tank have a S+B or an Ice Staff? a Taunt of some type on their bars? How about a Healer? Resto staff, heals other than self-heals?
Beyond this event's Crow boss, I don't pug, the only time I ever use the dungeon finder system is when 4 of us in the rolls we choose go into a dungeon... most of the time I even skip that.
Above someone talked about assigned rolls and then added buffs and debuffs, my opinion this is a bad idea... but I think it could be easier than that...
If the Dungeon finder is being used to create a group (and only when it is used to create a group) it should look at the gear and skills (Both bars if available) and use that to assign roles, and until the end of that dungeon, your gear and skills are locked. you could queue as a tank all day long, but no taunt, no gear and you are a DPS.Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...0 -
Marto✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is why, as someone that has been playing Templar healer for over 7 years now, I appreciate that ZOS nerfed healing across the board.
Self-healing is simply too powerful. And even after the nerf, it still is.
Having 1 skill slotted in your bar, with no equipment or buffs dedicated to healing done, can give you way too much survivability. It makes the job of a dedicated healer redundant.
I think ESO's combat would be a lot more interesting for everyone if you needed a user to utilize 3-4 healing skills to really keep their party safe. And if self-healing was good, but not nearly enough to sustain yourself.
Not sure how ZOS could bring something like that. Maybe they could nerf healing skills a further 10-20%, but increase the buffs and healing power you get from sets and equipment?
Maybe they could change minor and major mending from 8/16% to 10/20%, 12-24%, or even more.
Maybe they could improve the passive bonuses of Healing staves to further incentivize their use.
Maybe they could make healing scale off max magicka/stamina, but not spell/weapon power. Meaning healers would have fundamentally different stats and builds.
All of this would require extensive testing, of course. And would have a lot of consequences on how the game is played. But I still think it'd be worth it."According to the calculations of the sages of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, the batam guar is the cutest creature in all Tamriel"0 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow this happened in vet dungeons? I'm a healer and I've never had that happen in vet dungeons, however I have it happen frequently when doing RNDs for transmutes.0 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Veinblood1965 wrote: »Simple really. Once you play let's say three dungeons total or something like that as a tank or a healer you are LOCKED into that role permanently until you but a Role Respec Token or go to a Role Respec Shrine and pay 40,000 gold.
Um you can respec your entire build for under 20k in vivic sitting. You can also use your free armory slot to set a blank slate and then load that if you want to respec- free.
40k is an insane amount to new players and that is when most people test the water and decide what roles they may want to try. Not giving them that option is crappy. My issue with all this comes when I 1) ask if my "tank" or "healer" is a dps so I can compensate and get radio silence or 2) when I ask if people know mechs so I can advise and again radio silence. That's when I dip.Edited by boi_anachronism_ on October 31, 2022 8:02PM0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭If they nerf self healing tell me how your vCR3 and Bahsei HM portal teams manage to survive.
I’ll wait.2 -
Eiregirl✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »They could always do what another mmorpg did a few years ago, and that's to nerf self heals. It was an unpopular decision at the time, but then people adjusted, everyone started to appreciate healers and tanks more, and there was better overall role standards in group content.
That would break the solo arenas though.
You would adjust the solo arenas to match. Give them ways to heal, have items they can interact with during encounters to heal, have to use potions to heal. It wouldn't break the solo content.
In the solo arenas there are already items to interact with to heal, to shield, to increase your speed and one that increases your damage. Players can also use potions. Interacting with these items except for using potions reduce your points received for the encounters. I think it would much more of a rework for the arena system than you think.0 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »If they nerf self healing tell me how your vCR3 and Bahsei HM portal teams manage to survive.
I’ll wait.
I highly doubt this is a player who is familiar with a lot of vet or pvp content. Anyone who was would not suggest it based on all the aforementioned reasons. It's just not viable. A lot of newer - to mid level players that enjoy solo content (and yes regardless of if you in favor of it or not zos has designed huge swaths of the game to be soloable at mid level on purpose because it is the vast majority of the player base) would find themselves incapable of world bosses which would lead to a lot of people just leaving. So no, zos will never eliminate self healing.3 -
svendf✭✭✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »Everest_Lionheart wrote: »If they nerf self healing tell me how your vCR3 and Bahsei HM portal teams manage to survive.
I’ll wait.
I highly doubt this is a player who is familiar with a lot of vet or pvp content. Anyone who was would not suggest it based on all the aforementioned reasons. It's just not viable. A lot of newer - to mid level players that enjoy solo content (and yes regardless of if you in favor of it or not zos has designed huge swaths of the game to be soloable at mid level on purpose because it is the vast majority of the player base) would find themselves incapable of world bosses which would lead to a lot of people just leaving. So no, zos will never eliminate self healing.
ZOS can scale selfhealing based on content. No real need for selfheal in normal dungens just bring a healer and let them in on the game. Regarding harder content, which include portals, assign a healer to join the the two dd´s as in VSS on last boss. It´s often content with two healers onboard anyway - maybe it have changed as well I don´t know.
It´s wierd really. One of the top one MMO´s have it solved. Why can´t it be solved in ESO ? Who is holding back ? And why ?
Nah something went total wrong along the way. You don´t cater to a specific role, which I beleive happed here. You cater to all roles and make them equal important.
Edited by svendf on October 31, 2022 10:24PM0 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Regarding harder content, which include portals, assign a healer to join the the two dd´s as in VSS on last boss. It´s often content with two healers onboard anyway - maybe it have changed as well I don´t know.
You can't put a healer in vSS portals. In HM one of them is guarding the main tank and the other one is over by the group and is taunting one of the adds. Portals is also a DPS check, you need all 3 people who go down to be dps or else you're going to wipe.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 4/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 25/26 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »Everest_Lionheart wrote: »If they nerf self healing tell me how your vCR3 and Bahsei HM portal teams manage to survive.
I’ll wait.
I highly doubt this is a player who is familiar with a lot of vet or pvp content. Anyone who was would not suggest it based on all the aforementioned reasons. It's just not viable. A lot of newer - to mid level players that enjoy solo content (and yes regardless of if you in favor of it or not zos has designed huge swaths of the game to be soloable at mid level on purpose because it is the vast majority of the player base) would find themselves incapable of world bosses which would lead to a lot of people just leaving. So no, zos will never eliminate self healing.
ZOS can scale selfhealing based on content. No real need for selfheal in normal dungens just bring a healer and let them in on the game. Regarding harder content, which include portals, assign a healer to join the the two dd´s as in VSS on last boss. It´s often content with two healers onboard anyway - maybe it have changed as well I don´t know.
It´s wierd really. One of the top one MMO´s have it solved. Why can´t it be solved in ESO ? Who is holding back ? And why ?
Nah something went total wrong along the way. You don´t vater to a specific role, which I beleive happed here. You cater to all roles and make them equal important.
Uh no. You would have to have 2 healers for just for portals in vcr. Have you done it? I have. Many many times. Read my earlier post. The mechs require a kite for upstairs (a healer), a healer for group and then you are suggesting additional healers for downstairs as well. It's too spread out and dps must move too quickly, There is no way to cross heal. So now you are talking 4 healers for a trial.
As for dungeons- double no. Until the issue of DPS quing as tanks and healers is fixed, and actual dps have a decent tutorial of some kind so they can hit enough that a normal dungeon isn't an hour long shlog group finder would be unusable. Doing that won't solve the issue it will make people not play the content. Additionally zos will not scale for every single kind of content. They barely want to deal with it in pvp as it is because of server calculations. So now we are going to have different calculations for trials. Different for dungeons. Different for overland, different for arenas, pvp... On and on. They won't do it. Ever.
To top it all off the main reason this happened is because they openly cater to solo players over mmo players, more experienced solo player frequently do dungeons with just their companions, if they nuke self healing, they nuke that too. They barely wanted to admit it was an MMO to begin with and actually tried to distance themselves from sticking it solidly in that genre. There was a recent article/interview about this. Nefas did a vid on it not too long ago.0 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Speaking of which- how exactly would you calculate self healing... On healers. No one is healing them. They heal themselves with the same skills and if those get scaled differently well what's stopping me from popping a resto on my bb and dpsing on my front bar? I don't understand how you could even implement such a thing.Edited by boi_anachronism_ on October 31, 2022 10:54PM0 -
JamuThatsWho✭✭✭✭✭
✭A lot of players say healers are unnecessary, but I've saved countless PUGs in GF on my healcro.
I see him more as a support role, with things like SPC and Combat Prayer alongside damage AoE and DoTs to boost everyone else.@JamuThatsWho - PC EU - CP2100
Main:
Vasiir-jo - Khajiit Magicka Necromancer, AD
Alts:Sul-Mael Hlarothran - Dunmer Magicka Sorcerer, EP
Ushaar-Ixaht - Argonian Magicka Nightblade, DC
Rorbakh gro-Khraag - Orc Stamina Templar, AD
Anduuroon - Altmer Magicka Warden, EP
Travanius Braelia - Imperial Stamina Dragonknight, DC
Daeralon - Bosmer Stamina Arcanist, AD0 -
Dem_kitkats1✭✭✭✭Regarding harder content, which include portals, assign a healer to join the the two dd´s as in VSS on last boss. It´s often content with two healers onboard anyway - maybe it have changed as well I don´t know.
You can't put a healer in vSS portals. In HM one of them is guarding the main tank and the other one is over by the group and is taunting one of the adds. Portals is also a DPS check, you need all 3 people who go down to be dps or else you're going to wipe.
They would just have to adjust the health and damage of bosses and mobs. So much so that you wouldn't need as much DPS. Just change your group composition to include more healers and tanks based on the content and mechanics of that trial. If self healing was adjusted, the devs wouldn't leave the content as it is now, which is what some people seem to think. They would have to adjust that as well.0 -
svendf✭✭✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »boi_anachronism_ wrote: »Everest_Lionheart wrote: »If they nerf self healing tell me how your vCR3 and Bahsei HM portal teams manage to survive.
I’ll wait.
I highly doubt this is a player who is familiar with a lot of vet or pvp content. Anyone who was would not suggest it based on all the aforementioned reasons. It's just not viable. A lot of newer - to mid level players that enjoy solo content (and yes regardless of if you in favor of it or not zos has designed huge swaths of the game to be soloable at mid level on purpose because it is the vast majority of the player base) would find themselves incapable of world bosses which would lead to a lot of people just leaving. So no, zos will never eliminate self healing.
ZOS can scale selfhealing based on content. No real need for selfheal in normal dungens just bring a healer and let them in on the game. Regarding harder content, which include portals, assign a healer to join the the two dd´s as in VSS on last boss. It´s often content with two healers onboard anyway - maybe it have changed as well I don´t know.
It´s wierd really. One of the top one MMO´s have it solved. Why can´t it be solved in ESO ? Who is holding back ? And why ?
Nah something went total wrong along the way. You don´t vater to a specific role, which I beleive happed here. You cater to all roles and make them equal important.
Uh no. You would have to have 2 healers for just for portals in vcr. Have you done it? I have. Many many times. Read my earlier post. The mechs require a kite for upstairs (a healer), a healer for group and then you are suggesting additional healers for downstairs as well. It's too spread out and dps must move too quickly, There is no way to cross heal. So now you are talking 4 healers for a trial.
As for dungeons- double no. Until the issue of DPS quing as tanks and healers is fixed, and actual dps have a decent tutorial of some kind so they can hit enough that a normal dungeon isn't an hour long shlog group finder would be unusable. Doing that won't solve the issue it will make people not play the content. Additionally zos will not scale for every single kind of content. They barely want to deal with it in pvp as it is because of server calculations. So now we are going to have different calculations for trials. Different for dungeons. Different for overland, different for arenas, pvp... On and on. They won't do it. Ever.
To top it all off the main reason this happened is because they openly cater to solo players over mmo players, more experienced solo player frequently do dungeons with just their companions, if they nuke self healing, they nuke that too. They barely wanted to admit it was an MMO to begin with and actually tried to distance themselves from sticking it solidly in that genre. There was a recent article/interview about this. Nefas did a vid on it not too long ago.
I have 12k plus hours in ESO and done alot of content. Does it matter ? No, not really. You actually put a finger on problems in ESO. In ESO there are 12 slots, so my guess is ZOS want people to make up their own minds, what´s needed to run the content they wanna run. The consensus in trials seems to be two healers and two tanks, eventhough I have seen one healer single handed healed Vss HM no death run. That said she is special, nice and humble at the same time.
I have done some 24 player content in another MMO and those healer and tank slots are set in stone. Some like it and some don´t. Comming from ESO I like it because I have seen the other side of it. I have often asked myself. Is the freedom in ESO
too much ? There isn´t really a good tutorial to go with it for any role. In the other MMO you are presented with a series of quest, which give you a pretty good idea, what the role is about - as in a tank role and you will be doing some hard stuff and if you get into trouble you will get help. This is only for the job quest and there are systems in place to help so you don´t get stuck, which is importent. This is for all jobs.
The MMO I am on atm is also going the same way or actually been like that for a long time, here I mean casual solo content. I have no problem with that because I feel they do it very well (just my opinion). Freedom in ESO can be it´s own enemy. With freedom comes responsibilities so people don´t fall in between, ZOS may have to have a look into that. I don´t know all the ins and outs in ESO as Im not part of the dev team. As an MMO player it doesn´t feel right, what´s going on.
Is it easy to go from very active in dungeons and trials to do crafting writs on my chars for 45 min after 12k hours game time. It depends. My main question was. What do I want to get away from ? And found one. NO the grass is not always more green on the other side. I never had problems regarding burnout in ESO. In the other MMO I have to be carefull as you will be doing dungeons, trials, and raids as part of main quest , plus boss fights - my only complaint really, so this is the firs MMO I have to take a pause sometimes. Never had that problem in ESO and that´s a plus.
I can´t give you an better ansver as you have allready pointet out some of the problems. I
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DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s a pretty easy fix.
The issue is dungeon finder letting people que in as the wrong spec. Now most random normal content it is not an issue for fake tanking until you get into dlc content. Some of those bosses can be punks bc of mech
If a person ques up as tank then they need to have a minimum resist, and taunts as well as at least one snb or ice staff. It’s really that simple. When they get into the dungeon they can swap out for whatever they want to wear. But at least now there is a person who has an actual tank set up in group. They should also have a minimum health threshold for vet.
But normal content is so easy.
My wife and I have duo’d every dungeon on Vet in this game except 3 and that was due to mech. Yes you read that correctly. Duo’d on Vet every dung except 3. And yes we even got some HMs completed as a duo.
Calling to nerf something is not the right answer in my opinion. There are not a lot of tanks in the game. If they truly wanted to encourage more tanks then having someone que up as a tank, with the limits I said above and yielding that person who queue’s as a tank a very special reward would, I think help, the tank community grow. And allow people to not be so scared of tanking in true tank fashion.
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