been healing a bunch of VET dungeons during this event and noticed a trend with fake tanks

Dem_kitkats1

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

I, as a healer/Tank main, find fake DPS to be much worse. Not even a joke. And there is SO MUCH of them recently.

Of course there's bad DPS. There's consequences to allowing people to blur support roles or ignore them altogether. People are too worried about covering every possible scenario, that they become mediocre at everything. You can't ask players for top tier DPS when they're trying to cover their bases for survival, because support is not guaranteed.

OBJnoob

I think its funny that the tank gets called fake and is hated-- imagined to have ill intent-- while the DPS is given the excuse of being new or just bad.

Part of what would make a DPS "fake" is the same things that make a tank fake. Having skills on your bar designed for a different role than you are supposed to fulfill. Or gear.

Its kinda funny to me though because the thing being complained about-- fake tanks-- cause DPS that don't want to be reliant on bad group members to slot selfish abilities. Which then shows them that actually they don't even need a tank. Which then leads them to fake tank for a faster que.

People want tanks to tank and healers to heal because the buffs they provide actually increase group DPS more than two extra, improperly geared, DPS. They desire others to play in ways that fake tanks, for instance, may find boring. With the goal of completing the dungeon 5 or 10 minutes faster. But are disgusted by the idea of fake tanking to cut 5 or 10 minutes off the que.

The lack of empathy, let alone introspection, is what has always made this dispute so amusing to me. They prefer the team game be played one way and others don't. They wish there were a way to force this to happen. They say the problem is growing. They don't realize the growing "problem" is THEIR position being less and less supported. Which-- if ever it could be proven that more people like freedom of play than like role restriction-- would make them just bossy jerks.

Athyrium93

They should just make heals scale differently, instead of scaling on the same stats as damage does, I personally think healing should scale with the regen rate of your highest stat.

OsUfi

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think its funny that the tank gets called fake and is hated-- imagined to have ill intent-- while the DPS is given the excuse of being new or just bad.

The issue is intent, not how good or bad someone is at their role.

1. Did you queue as a tank, with taunts, hoping to fill your role in the party but you're not very good at it? Sure, free pass. Everyone starts somewhere. No problem bruv.

2. Did you queue as a DPS, but you're not very good at dealing damage? That's OK fam, we got you. You'll figure it out.

3. Did you queue as a tank, with no taunts, with the express intent of skipping the queue with high DPS, carrying the party? Well, that makes you a bit obnoxious. That's gonna annoy all the other DPS players who queued as a DPS and waited in line.

4. Did you queue as a tank, with no taunts, with the express intent of skipping the queue, while thinking your DPS is godly, when in-fact, I, the damned healer is out DPS'ing you? Get in the god damn bin.

See the difference between 1, 2 then 3, 4?

This is also where my bugbear comes in to this. Regardless of what the keyboard warriors on the forums say, 4 has become the norm. Everyone that fake tanks seems to think their DPS is awesome, so fake tanking and queue jumping is their right. But I'm out DPS'ing them on my basic one-bar, no light attack weaving, healer. Screw this noise.

My tipping point was three RNDs on the trot with someone who was so bad fake tanking as a DPS, with no taunts, they ran in circles with bosses in Wayrest 1scared to take damage. The circles were so bad, everyone's AoE's became useless. He just kept dragging everything out of the damage areas. How can you be so spectacularly bad at the game you drag out Wayrest 1, while faking a role? Holy hell.

me_ming

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

I, as a healer/Tank main, find fake DPS to be much worse. Not even a joke. And there is SO MUCH of them recently.

Of course there's bad DPS. There's consequences to allowing people to blur support roles or ignore them altogether. People are too worried about covering every possible scenario, that they become mediocre at everything. You can't ask players for top tier DPS when they're trying to cover their bases for survival, because support is not guaranteed.

True.

Sooooooo I've been PUG'ing vet pledges since I hit Vet 1 (that's like CP10 these days). I didn't join a guild til later Vet stages, and even when I was in a guild, I still preferred doing PUG, than bothering my guildmates. And in all those years of PUG'ing, there is one thing I have learned, you cannot expect an optimized group. As a tank/healer you cannot expect your DPS to melt everything. As a DPS you can't expect your healer to buff you or your tank to keep aggro 100% of the time or the prio mobs/bosses. So if you know what you are doing, there should always be a wiggle room in your arsenal to compensate, and that may (or may not) lead you to be less optimized yourself.

Now to address OPs concern, it has already been said in this thread, but one way I think help with people fake tanking/healing is to make non-DLC (even the older DLC dungeons) as challenging as the DLC dungeons. The problem is with every class having a tanking/healing/dps skill line, you have all the means to survive. Not only that, because player damage/stats have been buffed and older dungeons aren't, players even at entry level have the DPS to kill the boss even if they don't follow the mechanics. I suppose it's all for the sake of Accessibility. Whatever.

So yeah, there really is no need for a tank or healer, when the content you are playing is more of a glorified public dungeon, and more so you (no matter what class you are in) have the means to access the buffs and utility you need to survive. Those buffs and debuffs OP is suggesting would only make fake tanking even more worse. Imagine a DPS Breton Magicka Templar with those buffs, 17% cost reduction? My god, you will never run out of stats to keep yourself alive. You pop Harness Magicka and Channeled focus, you can spam sweeps all day and even if your healer and DPSes die you will solo whatever nonDLC dungeons you are in.

Kingsindarkness

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Just get rid of group finder all together

Pretty much this as well as the need for the Trinity.....

I actually foresee the demise of the Trinity before it's all said and done...only a fraction of the player base ever uses it and it causes nothing but Discord.

Though I also fully believe the only reason some folks even play is due to the things in the game they can complain about.

Everest_Lionheart

OsUfi wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think its funny that the tank gets called fake and is hated-- imagined to have ill intent-- while the DPS is given the excuse of being new or just bad.

The issue is intent, not how good or bad someone is at their role.

1. Did you queue as a tank, with taunts, hoping to fill your role in the party but you're not very good at it? Sure, free pass. Everyone starts somewhere. No problem bruv.

2. Did you queue as a DPS, but you're not very good at dealing damage? That's OK fam, we got you. You'll figure it out.

3. Did you queue as a tank, with no taunts, with the express intent of skipping the queue with high DPS, carrying the party? Well, that makes you a bit obnoxious. That's gonna annoy all the other DPS players who queued as a DPS and waited in line.

4. Did you queue as a tank, with no taunts, with the express intent of skipping the queue, while thinking your DPS is godly, when in-fact, I, the damned healer is out DPS'ing you? Get in the god damn bin.

See the difference between 1, 2 then 3, 4?

This is also where my bugbear comes in to this. Regardless of what the keyboard warriors on the forums say, 4 has become the norm. Everyone that fake tanks seems to think their DPS is awesome, so fake tanking and queue jumping is their right. But I'm out DPS'ing them on my basic one-bar, no light attack weaving, healer. Screw this noise.

My tipping point was three RNDs on the trot with someone who was so bad fake tanking as a DPS, with no taunts, they ran in circles with bosses in Wayrest 1scared to take damage. The circles were so bad, everyone's AoE's became useless. He just kept dragging everything out of the damage areas. How can you be so spectacularly bad at the game you drag out Wayrest 1, while faking a role? Holy hell.

I’m an endgame trifecta DPS and still queuing as DPS for these things. I only play DPS in this game and fortunately all of my characters have a full kit of skills to compensate for bad groups and fake roles.

I also get frustrated when those fake roles are also doing low DPS because of how much DPS I will lose to slot the necessary skills to pull us through. If one of the support roles is competent and actively healing or taunting I generally do t have to make as many adjustments but lately I get at least 2 groups per week where I’m taunting and healing cutting my effective DPS literally in half. Not an issue on base game content, but it is a major issue on DLC.

With more and more DLC dungeons releasing with each patch the chances of pulling one of those also keeps going up. It may be time to split the queue and offer better tier rewards and lock DLC roles into a stricter criteria for randoms. Or at the very least let the queue pop with 1 support annd 2 DPS and let those 3 players vote to wait for proper support role or take next available DPS in queue.

Amottica

dmnqwk wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Or add an option to the group finder to queue as any/no role instead of trying to force the trinity upon players.

Solo players need to be able to handle a boss in their face while staying alive and doing reasonable damage. Those kinds of players (like me) do fine in group content as well. If you make me chose between a group build or a solo build, I'll stay with my solo build and group even less than I do now.

the trinity you so call "forced" is already forced in trials

It is not forced. I have seen a video where a DPS helped with healing in a trial. I believe it was progression where they needed some extra healing to help them get through the trial, where two alternate bosses drop into the fight. vAS. I have also seen trials where the OT was a DPS tank in some fights.

It is just that with more challenging content, many groups find that defining roles for each player is the most efficient. That is not forced but a choice.

It is no different from our choices when forming a dungeon group. The only difference is when asking the GF to find a random group, the player is giving up the choice of deciding what each player will do as well as how good their build is and how well they will play.

When asking for a random group, one is asking for potluck. The real fix to the fake tank problem is fixing the reason real tanks such as myself, refuse to go for the random group thing.

It's important to understand that it can be forced and still allow for transition.

A good example would be in another game, when I was tanking on the back of a dragon as a bear, but had to reforge all of my gear into dps to help meet a really strict burst timer it had. So I was extra super mega squishy (and reliant on cooldowns a lot more than usual) but destroyed the tendrils.

ESO is very special in that it has tanks working as buff bots to a degree way in excess of any other MMO I have played (if one exists let me know, it definitely is possible), which reinforces the notion that the holy trinity is still in full effect. Removing healers was seen in Guild Wars 2 initially (as a Guild Wars 1 monk, I wasn't exactly pleased at the time) and I think that feeling has stretched into ESO very heavily - self survival based on personal healing as opposed to mechanic avoidance.

As a real tank player (4 of my 8 chars have tank sets, 2 have healer sets, all 8 have dps sets saved in armory) I run hybrid tank setups on each of them to provide around 20-30k dps single target on bosses to allow them to run normal dungeons and not be beholden to the RNG of whether the dps will bring 5k each or 50k.

I think a lot of the issues are generated by the lack of structure in classes - each player can be a tank, healer and dd in the same build so creating a scenario where only healers can heal to full strength, tanks have 30-60% dps of a DD (that is from my experience of MMOs over the last 20-25 years) and DD/tanks can chip into other roles where necessary for short periods. But it has benefits too, so I don't think ESO will ever find a way to fix the situation.

Just as it is important to understand when it is not forced but is more effective, as is the case of using pure trinity builds in the more challenging trials. It is certainly not forced, as I have noted with two examples.

Nestor

Maybe they disable self healing in Dungeons only. It can be done.

Amottica

Nestor wrote: »

Maybe they disable self healing in Dungeons only. It can be done.

Then might as well just make it so damage from the healer is greatly nerfed while nerfing healing from tanks and DDs. Then for the tank nerf their damage and make it so if they were not built to survive the damage they would die easily regardless of how much healing they received.

Granted, it would become a very different game but would have the effect that some who rely on the GF for dungeons have requested. Queue times would increase since the reason many real tanks avoid using the GF has not changed.

Ksariyu

Though easy to forget, I think it's important to remember just how VERY complicated this problem really is. There are so many factors to consider before you even start acknowledging other peoples' preferences and desires, and any solution would likely involve heavily modifying several aspects of the game. I bet the dev team has probably discussed this issue at length (Though of course to hear them talk about some of their ideas and why they don't implement them would be nice ), and simply can't come up with an ideal compromise. But really, even just reading through this page and a half of responses, you can see how many different perspectives they have to try and bring together into one coherent vision, and most of these suggestions completely disregard other significant portions of the game. Even the most long-term vet players forget or ignore smaller details in their suggestions.

The reality is that this issue, like many others in the game, has been baked into the foundation of the game's design over time, and it's unlikely that there will ever be anything the devs can do to get rid of it without essentially making a new game. So my advice here would be to deal or move on, because that's really all you can do.

MidniteOwl1913

rootkitronin wrote: »

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

I, as a healer/Tank main, find fake DPS to be much worse. Not even a joke. And there is SO MUCH of them recently.

Fake DPS? How does that even work? An what kind of content are you talking about?

I can understand poor or bad DPS, but fake?

I thought for healer and tank roles you generally have to spec into specific skills and functions - that leaves DPS as just the default. So is it more just very poorly optimized/performing DPS, or am I missing some way people are "faking" the role?

When a DPS doesn't live up to the expectations of one of the members that DPS is often called "fake". Of course, there is no such thing as a fake DPS! What there are is bad DPS just like there are real but bad healers/tanks. But it's a random pug, some of the players are not going to be great, doesn't make them fake.

Nestor

The other thing to remember, is if you have a pre made 4 person group, you can go to any Dungeon directly, no need for GF restrictions. So those who want to play 4 DPS or 4 Tanks can do so.

zaria

rootkitronin wrote: »

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

I, as a healer/Tank main, find fake DPS to be much worse. Not even a joke. And there is SO MUCH of them recently.

Fake DPS? How does that even work? An what kind of content are you talking about?

I can understand poor or bad DPS, but fake?

I thought for healer and tank roles you generally have to spec into specific skills and functions - that leaves DPS as just the default. So is it more just very poorly optimized/performing DPS, or am I missing some way people are "faking" the role?

Its kind of an joke, but I say but if you do less dps than an companion you are kind of pointless, my Ember does 2.5 k dps and she has a heal to.
And you will do much more damage just spamming an spamable skill. Obviously if you are dead because of mechanics you did not know in an random normal you are excused. For an vet pledge you could looked up the dungeon.
And none will kick you for asking for advice if you show you pull your weight.
Like that second last boss in Ruins Of Mazzatun.

Now I have one horror story, leveled my first tank, though I should focus on tanking and get other skills later, this worked well until I was level 49 and next rnd should get me to cp160.
I learned lots of new stuff about banished cell 2, it has two dps checks: Keeper Indril, you need to kill her adds faster than they spawn and last boss you need to kill the daedrots faster than they spawn and also kill the healing orbs.

Secondary you can wipe repeatably on both in normal.Yes its not hard to solo but I was an skillpoint starved pure tank and still did most of the damage, not sure how its possible to do less than 2k dps.

Now I did normal scalecaller peak some year later, I was farming it in normal, got an questionable group but unlike previous group we talked, group was very enthusiastic but skills, experience and gear did not work for them was on an templar healer who can go from DD with off heal to trial healer.
Yes I found I had to heal a lot but also do lot of damage, after half an hour I recommended we tried to re roll RND, I did not need i but they was nice people so. Got BC1 or similar and blasted trough it.

Einar_Hrafnarsson

rootkitronin wrote: »

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

I, as a healer/Tank main, find fake DPS to be much worse. Not even a joke. And there is SO MUCH of them recently.

Fake DPS? How does that even work? An what kind of content are you talking about?

I can understand poor or bad DPS, but fake?

I thought for healer and tank roles you generally have to spec into specific skills and functions - that leaves DPS as just the default. So is it more just very poorly optimized/performing DPS, or am I missing some way people are "faking" the role?

Yeah i mean extremely bad DPS. Sorry if that was not clear. I have a lot of them recently. I sometimes can outdamage them with a single dps skill while im healing. It is quite sad

OBJnoob

OsUfi wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think its funny that the tank gets called fake and is hated-- imagined to have ill intent-- while the DPS is given the excuse of being new or just bad.

3. Did you queue as a tank, with no taunts, with the express intent of skipping the queue with high DPS, carrying the party? Well, that makes you a bit obnoxious. That's gonna annoy all the other DPS players who queued as a DPS and waited in line.


See the difference between 1, 2 then 3, 4?

Tried to handpick some things from your post to respond to. Yes, I see the differences between the scenarios. But sometimes we're just imagining intent. It is possible to not know you're supposed to taunt or where to get one. Similarly people sometimes need to be told to use crit resistance in PvP. There are dpses asking for explanations about penetration all the time here on the forums.

Some people don't know how to DPS. It just so happens that at least 50% of the games skills do damage and people can usually figure out that hey, these guys hitting us need to disappear, so any joker with skills on their bar can waltz in, do terrible, and apparently no problem you "got him bruh."

The same guy with the same level of ignorance has 2 skills of which he needs at least one... He might not know it, might notve chosen sword and shield as silly as that sounds to us its true. Where in game does it tell you "hey if you want to tank you need the puncture skill so unlock the line asap"? And we see him as fake, having bad intent, and create forum posts about him.

Some people are just bad players and you're not even acknowledging the true depths of badness there could be because we, here, have all played the game for 5+ years and we spend another hour a day updating ourselves on patches glitches and game theory.

The real fake tanks probably don't get complained about because we do taunt (only bosses,) we don't die, and we do 20 to 30k dps. And we understand mechanics.

I've tanked vet scale caller peak on a light armor PvP bowsorc. The healer, whoever they were, was probably a god. And I forgot I was in the vet que, lol, and I did die once when squatting on a sludge geyser but we made it through because frankly its just not that big a deal-- the game isn't hard-- and the type of tanking and healing 120k+ DPS want is boring for everybody except them.

When the team almost wiped over and over cuz the stupid gargoyle orbs were turning everyone to stone and nobody was synergizing for freedom I didn't come on here to complain about being trolled. I assumed they didn't know any better and I did it for them... Because that's what reasonable people do. Instead of spending every waking moment wondering what others could do to make my preferred video game more enjoyable for me.

ArchMikem

Because Tanks also have the mitigation for those hits that self heals can't heal. Because they're one shots. It doesn't matter if healing is too good when you get hit with damage that's bigger than your health bar.

blktauna

Why don't the fake queue jumpers just stop being selfish *** and play with the party they are assigned instead of runinng off and ruining things for 3 other people?

Seems simple enough.

heng14rwb17_ESO

The skill set of the recent players have drop a lot.
We used to have 4 DPS clear vet dung.
1 stamina DPS slot taunt skill.
Able to clear vet dung in less than 10 min.

Dr_Con

vDSA is victim to power creep and meta change. complaining about that is like complaining about 11 sorc dps and 1 sorc tank nuking down vHRC.

likewise, old vet content is victim to power creep and doesn't need a "real tank" 90% of the time. 10% of the time, in my experience, you get those bad but memorable experiences where someone queues into it and either the group has one of those easily identifiable markers that says the run will suck so someone drops(sorry, but true), or the tank is not willing to bite the bullet and adapt their build based on the role they play. around 25% of the time the players are super new and dont know how to dps so you NEED the fake tank rather than for that person to be the dps commander who tells them they're not good enough, but that tank can still play the "amazing omg wtf tank" role while the group labors away for 3 hours in the dungeon due to severe lack of dps. Personally? I'd rather be the person who queues in as tank, who has the add-ons to switch to a dps role capable of tanking the dungeon when I see the group doing poorly, message the healer who 90% of the time has 2k+ cp and let them know what I'm doing, and do 60% of the groups damage rather than sit there and complain that the dps is bad and ZOS didn't match me with people around my success rate/cp level or that they didn't implement countermeasures to prevent this something from happening to make my life easier.

The rest of the time the group fits into their roles and it all works out nicely. Nerfing self heals has a ripple effect that winds up nerfing pve dps as the healers can't focus on buffing the dps as much since they need to babysit the tank more so good luck with pushing that through. My tank's self heals are good. My dps's self heals are good. These are different heals with different uses.

to the OP, I don't entirely disagree, but this has been suggested before. I personally think there should be undaunted food buffs to incentivize the different roles based on what people picked. People can change their fit to heal more or tank more by those percentages if they wished, nerfing self heals isn't they way due to how damage is dished out in this game and how healers have become buff bots. In other games where you need to channel a heal for 10 seconds to heal your target it's a different story, not this one.

spartaxoxo

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

opalcity wrote: »

They could always do what another mmorpg did a few years ago, and that's to nerf self heals. It was an unpopular decision at the time, but then people adjusted, everyone started to appreciate healers and tanks more, and there was better overall role standards in group content.

That would break the solo arenas though.

You would adjust the solo arenas to match. Give them ways to heal, have items they can interact with during encounters to heal, have to use potions to heal. It wouldn't break the solo content.

No. Show me a pov of you doing VVH with no self heals at all. Forget about trifectas. How about vet cloudrest? Gonna portal with no self heals? On a time limit? Potions will never keep up with that damage, the cool down is way too long. You would have to take 4 healers into that trial. 2- to run around downstairs with the DPS, one to kite upstairs and one to heal group. Your min dps would have to be through the roof to clear because now you gotta sacrifice 2 additional dd spots. People going into maelstrom for the first time would just give up. Self heals are integral to many parts of the game. What about pvp? Whatcha gonna do? Have 25 sigils outside each keep?

This. Much of the hardest content in this game requires dps to have decent self-healing.

kringled_1

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

I, as a healer/Tank main, find fake DPS to be much worse. Not even a joke. And there is SO MUCH of them recently.

Of course there's bad DPS. There's consequences to allowing people to blur support roles or ignore them altogether. People are too worried about covering every possible scenario, that they become mediocre at everything. You can't ask players for top tier DPS when they're trying to cover their bases for survival, because support is not guaranteed.

With all due respect, I can bring a vVH/vMA build into most vDLC dungeons and noone will complain about the level of damage, yet those builds are very survival built. This is much more a problem of people getting into content they are not prepared for.

Dem_kitkats1

kringled_1 wrote: »

With all due respect, I can bring a vVH/vMA build into most vDLC dungeons and noone will complain about the level of damage, yet those builds are very survival built. This is much more a problem of people getting into content they are not prepared for.

Again though, you're talking from the perspective of a vet player. You already know the balance of damage, healing, and mitigation, and how to tweak it depending on the content, and group composition, because even for solo content there is knowlege about the importance of optimization. You also understand mechanics, and the more technical side of combat, so you have the knowledge of know how to maximize damage when it's time to. As experienced players, we forget that new/more casual players don't. And as there's no space curated for them to learn properly, we're seeing that players don't know how to become optimized for anything, because they're worried about everything else. Hence, more low DPS players, and supports that are completely inept to fulfill their role in harder content.

zaria

OsUfi wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think its funny that the tank gets called fake and is hated-- imagined to have ill intent-- while the DPS is given the excuse of being new or just bad.

The issue is intent, not how good or bad someone is at their role.

1. Did you queue as a tank, with taunts, hoping to fill your role in the party but you're not very good at it? Sure, free pass. Everyone starts somewhere. No problem bruv.

2. Did you queue as a DPS, but you're not very good at dealing damage? That's OK fam, we got you. You'll figure it out.

3. Did you queue as a tank, with no taunts, with the express intent of skipping the queue with high DPS, carrying the party? Well, that makes you a bit obnoxious. That's gonna annoy all the other DPS players who queued as a DPS and waited in line.

4. Did you queue as a tank, with no taunts, with the express intent of skipping the queue, while thinking your DPS is godly, when in-fact, I, the damned healer is out DPS'ing you? Get in the god damn bin.

See the difference between 1, 2 then 3, 4?

This is also where my bugbear comes in to this. Regardless of what the keyboard warriors on the forums say, 4 has become the norm. Everyone that fake tanks seems to think their DPS is awesome, so fake tanking and queue jumping is their right. But I'm out DPS'ing them on my basic one-bar, no light attack weaving, healer. Screw this noise.

My tipping point was three RNDs on the trot with someone who was so bad fake tanking as a DPS, with no taunts, they ran in circles with bosses in Wayrest 1scared to take damage. The circles were so bad, everyone's AoE's became useless. He just kept dragging everything out of the damage areas. How can you be so spectacularly bad at the game you drag out Wayrest 1, while faking a role? Holy hell.

This, and note all expect HM in the baseline vet dungeons.
Now I think random normal dungeons has lowered the expectations. People complains about getting getting put in normal dlc dungeons, well if some offer gold for weapons at the end you are in someones farming run.
But so many run random normal to level cp and transmute it tend to work out.
Then you have the train wrecks where you got 3-4 clueless fakes.

Experience also matter, did vet shipwright regret, not done it in vet but friend tank wanted people, I joined but none else so we got two pug DD who was excellent. So I stayed on DD/ Heal with spc, last boss I died all the time as no idea of mechanic and then group died because of no heals. As an magplar she had to stay in melee. One of the DD told this one to only heal.
That worked well as she could stay out of mechanic while healing and supporting group.

Hint none will kick you for asking about mechanic on boss if you are kind of competent as in having taunts, heals or an rotation.

Lucozade85

Isn't this issue caused by the content being too easy rather than self heals being too strong, which I disagree with btw. And with content being made easier and easier (more accessibility they call it?) then it's only going to get worse.

SPR_of_HA_community

dsalter wrote: »

i will always ask "why fake tank you make some dungeons undoable" or "if your going to fake tank at least wait for the healer"
and the responce i get almost every time is "why have a tank/healer when i can self heal just as good"

and it made some sense, WHY tank or heal if you can deal high damage AND healing? self healing is so good that theres no reason to not have one, why have 2 damage, 1 tank and 1 healer when you can faceroll even the harder VET dungeons as 4 damage with strong self heals?

the easy cure would be to just force assigned roles a roll based buff, tank deals 10% less damage but recieves 5% less damage and 10% magicka/stam cost reduction, healers deal 10% less damage but have 10% increased magicka+stam regen (i would say healing increase but healing on a healer is already pretty high) and damage would get 10% damage increase and 5% stam/magicka regen but 15% less self healing.

but you can bet people will get salty over losing their "play anyway you want" being nerfed (more like cheese any way) but unless a better solution comes up this would honestly be the better option because right now bad habbits are reinforced due to how easy it is to be "hybrid" since self healing scales with your aggressive stats

People solo vet dunguans before. If you force even more players play like they do not want - they just leave the game and you will play with players who do not tank/heal and do no DPS.

I just try to play some old games with nerf of my favourite HA build.

Even games of 2003+ year plays better than current TESO.

Combat feels bright, skills do work and do press, you feel real fight, real combat.

In TESO buttons do not press, skills some times do not work.

TESO has better world and quest system, you can find a lot of thingth to do out of combat.

The only good thing about current combat system is - that you can use any skill you want each fight.

If you remove this - no exp player will play it.

Building of cool builds wasn nerfed, game lose 15% of good players with U35.

Remove some thing else and only casual player base will play TESO.

And as you understand expect anything from casual gamer in dunguans and trials is a silly thing

Veinblood1965

Simple really. Once you play let's say three dungeons total or something like that as a tank or a healer you are LOCKED into that role permanently until you but a Role Respec Token or go to a Role Respec Shrine and pay 40,000 gold.

SPR_of_HA_community

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Simple really. Once you play let's say three dungeons total or something like that as a tank or a healer you are LOCKED into that role permanently until you but a Role Respec Token or go to a Role Respec Shrine and pay 40,000 gold.

It will not be a problem for my DD as example, if I get lock on tank role on it

So I do not think that such system will work.

Soarora

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Simple really. Once you play let's say three dungeons total or something like that as a tank or a healer you are LOCKED into that role permanently until you but a Role Respec Token or go to a Role Respec Shrine and pay 40,000 gold.

That wouldn’t work… Armory. Also you can be a real healer on the same build as a magicka dps, just change skills and gear.

Ishtarknows

rootkitronin wrote: »

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

I, as a healer/Tank main, find fake DPS to be much worse. Not even a joke. And there is SO MUCH of them recently.

Fake DPS? How does that even work? An what kind of content are you talking about?

I can understand poor or bad DPS, but fake?

I thought for healer and tank roles you generally have to spec into specific skills and functions - that leaves DPS as just the default. So is it more just very poorly optimized/performing DPS, or am I missing some way people are "faking" the role?

Some Fake DDs I've come across are those wearing heavy armour and carrying resto staffs or 1h and shield. Nothing about those things is about increasing their damage. If they expect tanks to taunt and healers to heal they should be wearing damage sets and use damage skills instead of coming dressed as a support role