Please stop introducing OP mythics/sets that breaks game balance

chrisfeng · October 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

chrisfeng wrote: »

Kilt has been around for quite a while. Plus, I don't see any problem for players to access 5% more dps even if they can't do trials.
Complaining about mythics, which at least give players something to do in old zones, while not complaining about new trials sets, don't seem fair.

So while Harpooner's Wading Kilt is still very usable, I'll point out that ZOS made the reasoning behind the nerfs pretty obvious. It was overshadowing other Mythic Items. (And presumably had been for a whole year before they nerfed it.)

Perhaps it's completely coincidental that ZOS finally took action in the same patch that sold the new (and subsequently overused) Mythic Oakensoul.

"The king is dead. Long live the King!"

Selling something "OP" to push new content, then nerf later, isn't a mythic-only thing, I simply find OP's picking on "OP" mythic disingenuous.

Oaken is the best thing for all players in the past many many years, because it raised the floor and closed some gap, but it sure isn't replacing kilt in vet contents.

VaranisArano · October 2022

Billium813 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think I can hazard a guess as to what ZOS thinks it's getting out of Tales of Tribute in ESO, based off of Rich Lambert's recent interview: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/building-an-mmo-for-solo-players-in-the-elder-scrolls-online-1

"The hardest part in all of that is trying to figure out the roadmap of things," he adds. "It's a persistent world so players are always in there; what other alternate activities that they're doing? The story only takes you so far. We launch a chapter that has 30 to 40 hours of content in it and hardcore players will polish that off in a week and they're like 'Give us more'. We can't build content fast enough. We have to have all those supporting systems on top."

You know, I feel for the developers in that regard.

But, I mean, this comment seems to be discussing things like quest lines and zone content, which I am personally not complaining about. I think the zone story quests are great and well planned out. I think they do a good job telling a story and filling out 40 hours of content there! There will be players that speed through the story, then complain the game has no content, but I don't think devs should focus on that feedback.

This comment doesn't seem to speak towards the big DLC mechanics (Antiquities/Mythics, Companions). Perhaps ToT was created to address this, but I think it was a flawed idea from inception.

It seems to me that they should focus on more content that has no cap on content, like PvP or instanced content that has variable change. Just look at content like Battle Grounds or Dungeons. There is an infinite amount of repeatability. They didn't need to build a new game and jam it into ESO to make content. I suppose you could argue that ToT IS PvP content... but if so, that would be an absolute slap in the face to players that have been clamoring for PvP content for years.

My interpretation of Lambert's comment is he's talking about secondary systems they've added for players to do once they finish the new content.

Dungeons and PVP certainly apply. Dungeons get new DLC, while PVP is still waiting on that code rearchitecture.

But there's a segment of players who just aren't ever going to be interested in Dungeons and PVP, and ZOS wants to appeal to those players too.

I suspect that Tales of Tribute is intended to serve a similar function as PVP or dungeons for some of the players who won't touch either of those. It's a reasonably repeatable time sink.

(On a side note, I would semi-seriously argue that competitive ToT is PVP for the players who like it. I mean, once ToT started up, suddenly all I see all these PVEers complaining about certain decks, asking for nerfs, complaining about trolling behavior, asking for better balance, etc. Having read the PVP forums for years now, it's honestly pretty hilarious to see how quick they hit all the same talking points as PVPers do about Cyro and BGs. It's clearly not a replacement for actual PVP content...but it is a form of player v player nonetheless.)

VaranisArano · October 2022

chrisfeng wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

chrisfeng wrote: »

Kilt has been around for quite a while. Plus, I don't see any problem for players to access 5% more dps even if they can't do trials.
Complaining about mythics, which at least give players something to do in old zones, while not complaining about new trials sets, don't seem fair.

So while Harpooner's Wading Kilt is still very usable, I'll point out that ZOS made the reasoning behind the nerfs pretty obvious. It was overshadowing other Mythic Items. (And presumably had been for a whole year before they nerfed it.)

Perhaps it's completely coincidental that ZOS finally took action in the same patch that sold the new (and subsequently overused) Mythic Oakensoul.

"The king is dead. Long live the King!"

Selling something "OP" to push new content, then nerf later, isn't a mythic-only thing, I simply find OP's picking on "OP" mythic disingenuous.

Oaken is the best thing for all players in the past many many years, because it raised the floor and closed some gap, but it sure isn't replacing kilt in vet contents.

Oakensoul is an extremely stark example of the cycle we're complaining about. It was the new, shiny, powerful Mythic sold with High Isle. And ZOS launched it in a very powerful form, then three months later nerfed it into a usable, but much less powerful form.

Is it a good thing for players spend hours hunting leads and to have the gap closed and floors raised for three months?

Or would it have been better for ZOS to properly test and balance Oakensoul before they introduced it as a selling point of High Isle?

Sure, please, apply these complaints to trials and PVP gear too. But those generally only impact a fairly limited group of players, whereas Mythics tend to be more accessible to the average player. So the cycle of "Launch Big -> Nerf Later" hits average players much harder with Mythics.

I think Oakensoul's an excellent example of that, judging by the Lost Depths PTS. Oakensoul was attractive to a lot of average players, less so to the very elite PVEers. I'm sure some Oakensoul players were fine with the nerf, but there were also a lot of complaints about having farmed the item, having enjoyed the item, finding it genuinely helpful in its powerful state, only to be greatly disappointed in the nerf.

That cycle of "Launch Big -> Nerf Later" is not good for players. And ZOS has options for how to deal with that cycle if they want to.

They could choose to release less powerful mythics and then buff them up to their desired level over time.

They could test the Mythics more substantially, and thus gather the data they need to balance them appropriately before introducing them.

They could continue to launch them in a powerful state, generating lots of hype and interest, resulting in overused powerful items that inevitably get nerfed later.

As I said, feel free to apply those options to PVP, dungeon and trials gear too. Mythics are just the most obvious (and the most obviously monetized) example of how ZOS could approach balancing their new items differently.

Sergykid · October 2022

new class is not needed, many class spells are bad now and they could focus on those.
Even necro feels extra and just made by popular demand. Could have been just a "daedric" skill line.
Speaking of which, for things to be added to the game, at most a skill line.
Maybe a weapon line like alteration/illusion staff so they don't have to add any new weapon motifs.

FluffyBird · October 2022

Sergykid wrote: »

new class is not needed, many class spells are bad now and they could focus on those.
Even necro feels extra and just made by popular demand. Could have been just a "daedric" skill line.
Speaking of which, for things to be added to the game, at most a skill line.
Maybe a weapon line like alteration/illusion staff so they don't have to add any new weapon motifs.

Staff as a melee weapon!

AinSoph · October 2022

Everything said here really just enforces that Zenimax really just doesnt have enough staff to maintain decent upkeep on the game which is weird considering they're planning to release a new MMO IP. I'm also wondering how they're advertising because they game has noticeably started declining quality-wise after Summerset and that just makes me think that they really aren't taking a proactive approach in hiring.