Class change tokens?

Rageypoo · September 2022

So since templar has been nerfed to the ground and i don't play it anymore, and the radical changes every 3-4 months, i considered just changing the class, but upon checking I don't see a class change option anywhere.

Why?

kargen27 · September 2022

My personal opinion is this. Class change isn't needed and wouldn't be good for long term health of game.

2nd opinion. Templar isn't near as bad as people are saying in these forums.

moleculardrugs · September 2022

Rageypoo wrote: »

So since templar has been nerfed to the ground and i don't play it anymore, and the radical changes every 3-4 months, i considered just changing the class, but upon checking I don't see a class change option anywhere.

Why?

I have 18 characters. Before the armory system, I had made characters of the same class or race but different classes/races. Now with the armory system, that gives my characters more leeway to play.

However, an issue I have now is that I have these maxed out characters with riding skills and stuff BUT I DON’T WANT TO HAVE TO RESTART 180 days of logging in to get something I’ve already done before. Also, some skill lines you can’t purchase from the crown store.

So yeah, I agree that we have needed class change tokens for a very long time. That, or they give us more character slots.

Example:
DK’s:
High Elf
Wood Elf
Breton
Kahjiit

Necromancers:
Dark Elf
High Elf

Wardens:
Orc
High Elf
High Elf

However, I want to take a warden high elf and make it a necro redguard.

I want to take the Kahjiit DK and make him a NB

Rageypoo · September 2022

moleculardrugs wrote: »

Rageypoo wrote: »

So since templar has been nerfed to the ground and i don't play it anymore, and the radical changes every 3-4 months, i considered just changing the class, but upon checking I don't see a class change option anywhere.

Why?

I have 18 characters. Before the armory system, I had made characters of the same class but different races. Now with the armory system, that gives my characters more leeway to play.

However, an issue I have now is that I have these maxed out characters with riding skills and stuff BUT I DON’T WANT TO HAVE TO RESTART 180 days of logging in to get something I’ve already done before. Also, some skill lines you can’t purchase from the crown store.

So yeah, I agree that we have needed class change tokens for a very long time. That, or they give us more character slots.

yes that's how I feel exactly, I have an extra nightblade with riding skills that i don't use and would like to make a necro, and an extra templar that i'll never play either, as a new player this is a little frustrating i can only imagine how veteran players feel

fizzylu · September 2022

There's really no good reason why class change tokens shouldn't exist. Lots of people argue that people will just swap to whatever the meta class is all the time, but most people who care that much about some small number differences already have multiple characters of every class anyway. And look at a game like FFXIV. You can pretty much swap classes on the fly and there's still so much diversity in what people choose to play. It's not like everybody and their mom are running as a black mage.

RedBranch · September 2022

We’ve needed class change tokens for a long long time now. I’m a one character kind of player because that’s the time I have. I’ve played all classes but my main will never change. Even with account wide achievements there are many who will stay with their main for many reasons. I’m certain ESO would make A LOT of money from class change tokens.

kargen27 · September 2022

Rageypoo wrote: »

moleculardrugs wrote: »

Rageypoo wrote: »

So since templar has been nerfed to the ground and i don't play it anymore, and the radical changes every 3-4 months, i considered just changing the class, but upon checking I don't see a class change option anywhere.

Why?

I have 18 characters. Before the armory system, I had made characters of the same class but different races. Now with the armory system, that gives my characters more leeway to play.

However, an issue I have now is that I have these maxed out characters with riding skills and stuff BUT I DON’T WANT TO HAVE TO RESTART 180 days of logging in to get something I’ve already done before. Also, some skill lines you can’t purchase from the crown store.

So yeah, I agree that we have needed class change tokens for a very long time. That, or they give us more character slots.

yes that's how I feel exactly, I have an extra nightblade with riding skills that i don't use and would like to make a necro, and an extra templar that i'll never play either, as a new player this is a little frustrating i can only imagine how veteran players feel

I've been here since the beginning and I feel if you want to play a different character you should start a different character. I know the reluctance to delete a character you no longer play. I have multiple characters on a 2nd account I haven't played in a very long time but I don't want to get rid of them.
If we got more character slots I would use them but I don't think more slots are really needed.

I am opposed to class change because I feel it wouldn't be good for the long term health of the game. I also think leveling a character makes you better on that character. Getting to level 50 is easy. Just leveling the class skills will get you to 50 and you would need to level the skills either way. Once at 50 your CP applies.
Rider skills take a long time to advance but other than speed for Cyrodiil nothing there is critical or will make much difference.

Rageypoo · September 2022

I think nerfing a class dramatically with updates every 3 months hurts the long term health of the game more than a class change.

kargen27 · September 2022

Rageypoo wrote: »

I think nerfing a class dramatically with updates every 3 months hurts the long term health of the game more than a class change.

Not if it is done for overall balance and to address runaway power creep. I'm still happy with my Templar. Took me a while to get used to the new animation and to get the timing of a new rotation down. At first I was having a hard time killing world bosses that I could kill before the change but now I'm about back to where I was.

Aislinna · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

I am opposed to class change because I feel it wouldn't be good for the long term health of the game. I also think leveling a character makes you better on that character. Getting to level 50 is easy. Just leveling the class skills will get you to 50 and you would need to level the skills either way. Once at 50 your CP applies.
Rider skills take a long time to advance but other than speed for Cyrodiil nothing there is critical or will make much difference.

Can you please expand on how or why you think a class change token would not be good for the long term health of the game; no reasons are coming to my mind. Thank you.

FelisCatus · September 2022

There has been insane demand for it, for years. I see no good reason as to why it shouldn't be in the game. If they can somehow justify sex/race/alliance changes for lore/gameplay reasons I don't see why your class can't change.

Vulkunne · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

My personal opinion is this. Class change isn't needed and wouldn't be good for long term health of game.

2nd opinion. Templar isn't near as bad as people are saying in these forums.

But that's sort of the problem. Alot of us think it is needed and many changes they're already making are not good for the long term health of the game. Class change token would just be another change.

dinokstrunz · September 2022

This topic is a dead horse these days. The main reason people wanted Class Change tokens was because of Achievements, trial progression and class balances. Thanks to account wide achievements there really isn't a need for class change tokens. I can't think of any reason in fact why ZOS would add the ability to change classes. Replay ability is already dead in the ditch, class change would further that.

Eirikir · September 2022

Class Change would fund the next DLC since so many want it. Why not Zos? Those who want it offer money and those who don't threaten to add it to their 1000 subscriber youtube rant video they were making already. Seems an easy choice.

kargen27 · September 2022

Eirikir wrote: »

Class Change would fund the next DLC since so many want it. Why not Zos? Those who want it offer money and those who don't threaten to add it to their 1000 subscriber youtube rant video they were making already. Seems an easy choice.

That is short term thinking. For a game to continue to succeed you need to think long term.

Eirikir · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

Eirikir wrote: »

Class Change would fund the next DLC since so many want it. Why not Zos? Those who want it offer money and those who don't threaten to add it to their 1000 subscriber youtube rant video they were making already. Seems an easy choice.

That is short term thinking. For a game to continue to succeed you need to think long term.

Oakensoul sort of cuts the legs out from under that argument. Also never agreed with the Chicken Little argument that some how after years of tri-yearlymeta suffles, PvP bugs, hamster powered servers, lack luster dlcs, and a none responsive dev team, it will be class change that bring it all down. Its a silly and paranoid argument that makes no sense as the game next door, FFXIV, let's you change without even paying and they have damn sight near beaten Wow.

I know this game is not FFXIV but the point is its an overblown reason not to.

fizzylu · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

That is short term thinking. For a game to continue to succeed you need to think long term.

You keep saying it would be bad, but don't explain as to how or why you feel so. Is it because people won't make alts???? People who REALLY don't want to make an alt won't make an alt either way. Myself included. And why won't I ever make an alt? The reason is actually very simple; I don't want to. The only game I have ever had more than one character on is WoW and that's just because I love so many of the race+class combinations. Sadly I cannot say that about ESO. When I'm bored of my class I simply do not play. I take a break; cancel my sub, save me some money that's not being spent on ESO and give my playtime to another game. And plenty of people have already played the other classes. I only have one character that I keep around, but I have leveled each class to max. Some even more than once (don't ask why haha). Many people have alts as well, but still want a class change. So saying that it's better for people to level a class from a class/skill learning perspective misses these points.
And anyway, on the subject of the long term health of the game.... I think we have way more to be concerned about than class change tokens.

tonyblack · September 2022

My guess, the main reason why is because it’s much more profitable to sell all the riding lessons, skyshards and skill lines progression on top of extra cosmetics, outfit/armory slots and whatnot. Technically with all the options crown store provides the only difficulty in creating alt is to level crafting skills and characters themselves to lvl 50.

Also it might’ve something to do with psychological reasons. For example, I created and played only one character when I first started and was bored out of ESO before even progressing far into the game and was about to drop it until I tried different classes. Leveling extra characters from the scratch have something special and refreshing. So for me it was something to encourage me to explore game further from different angle. it’s probably have to do with their marketing trying to incentivize this approach.

If I’d be clueless about the game, take note of all the complaints about specific class and change it to another one only to hate it even more, I would be pissed off for wasting money into nothing. Having 6 characters for every class makes patch notes and gameplay far less stressful when i can jump on fotm class right away and ignore most of the nerfs.

kargen27 · September 2022

Eirikir wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Eirikir wrote: »

Class Change would fund the next DLC since so many want it. Why not Zos? Those who want it offer money and those who don't threaten to add it to their 1000 subscriber youtube rant video they were making already. Seems an easy choice.

That is short term thinking. For a game to continue to succeed you need to think long term.

Oakensoul sort of cuts the legs out from under that argument. Also never agreed with the Chicken Little argument that some how after years of tri-yearlymeta suffles, PvP bugs, hamster powered servers, lack luster dlcs, and a none responsive dev team, it will be class change that bring it all down. Its a silly and paranoid argument that makes no sense as the game next door, FFXIV, let's you change without even paying and they have damn sight near beaten Wow.

I know this game is not FFXIV but the point is its an overblown reason not to.

Using bad decisions to justify making more bad decisions isn't an argument that should be made.

kargen27 · September 2022

"You keep saying it would be bad, but don't explain as to how or why you feel so."

MMOs need a few things for long term health of the game. New content, players participating in a variety of content and players repeating content.
Class tokens takes away some player incentive for two of those three things. Quite a bit of the incentive to repeat content has been taken away why take even more?

Rageypoo · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

Class tokens takes away some player incentive for two of those three things. Quite a bit of the incentive to repeat content has been taken away why take even more?

I don't agree with this, if I was able to change my class on 2 characters I would have plenty of incentive to continue playing the game. Being forced into a new grind and abandoning characters isn't fun.

Shadesofkin · September 2022

You can literally just roll up a new class, and within a few hours be at lvl 50 with access to all of your cp160 gear from another toon.

It's an extremely unnecessary option that I think would impact the game in toxic ways .

Eirikir · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

Eirikir wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Eirikir wrote: »

Class Change would fund the next DLC since so many want it. Why not Zos? Those who want it offer money and those who don't threaten to add it to their 1000 subscriber youtube rant video they were making already. Seems an easy choice.

That is short term thinking. For a game to continue to succeed you need to think long term.

Oakensoul sort of cuts the legs out from under that argument. Also never agreed with the Chicken Little argument that some how after years of tri-yearlymeta suffles, PvP bugs, hamster powered servers, lack luster dlcs, and a none responsive dev team, it will be class change that bring it all down. Its a silly and paranoid argument that makes no sense as the game next door, FFXIV, let's you change without even paying and they have damn sight near beaten Wow.

I know this game is not FFXIV but the point is its an overblown reason not to.

Using bad decisions to justify making more bad decisions isn't an argument that should be made.

More then one brother as I listed. The fact is some people want it and it can't be any more damaging then everything else and besides just because you don't like it doesn't mean its bad. Little secret to the world is you may be wrong. You aren't everyone and by the looks of how many times this comes up there is obviously a demand for it.

Never got the mentality of "I don't like it so its 100% wrong." I mean I hate companions, don't use them, think they are a full waste of time as the content you use them on can be steamrolled or easily grouped. But I realize I don't speak for everyone and if you like it cool. Do I think the dev money to develop that feature could ave gone into something else? Yup, but it is what it is.

moleculardrugs · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

"You keep saying it would be bad, but don't explain as to how or why you feel so."

MMOs need a few things for long term health of the game. New content, players participating in a variety of content and players repeating content.
Class tokens takes away some player incentive for two of those three things. Quite a bit of the incentive to repeat content has been taken away why take even more?

They should open more character slots then! Then everyone will be happy 😅

Captain_Devildog · September 2022

My main i played for 5 years straight a Magplar it was so much fun all those years got the hardest dungeon achievements like True Genius. Now i made her a Heavy attack build beceause i can't stand the animation of the jabs. Aedric spear skill line doesn't mean anything to me anymore i only slot one skill for the crit damage.
I get cringed when i see someone using jabs.
It was the most satisfying and fun skill in the game for me. The gameplay with the animation was amazing. I don't care about weaving i can reach 70k without light or heavy attacking once. You can do everything in the game with that.

Changing the animation on this skill made the whole class very boring for me. But i realised it's a game and the devs are thinking about money so i learned myself not to get too attached to anything in this game anymore.. beceause whether you paid alot of money for the Oakensoul that got changed in a few months or you are used to a certain gameplay playstyle with a skill for 5 years.
It does not matter they will change everything if they think they can make money.

So will we get a Class change token?
No.
I don't think so, unless it will earn more money then they can lose from it.

kargen27 · September 2022

"Never got the mentality of "I don't like it so its 100% wrong."

Me either. I have no use at all for the card game but see how many people in my guild are happy with it so I am glad they got it. The card game and the companions don't take away from repeating content and doing a variety of content. They actually promote repeating content and doing a variety of content.
Not so with class change. I suppose it would promote the dolman grind as players get their skill bars maxed out. Other than that it takes from the game.

Amottica · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

"Never got the mentality of "I don't like it so its 100% wrong."

Oh, I do not have that mentality on this. In fact, I could care less.

However, there must be a compelling business reason for doing so and it must not decrease revenue. Considering the sales Zenimax gets on selling mount training, skill lines, and skill points (sky shards) such a token is not likely to come cheap. Then there is the limited market since many players have alts galore which is signified by the number of additional character slots that are available for purchase. These two together are likely both negatives when Zenimax considers such ideas.

If it is priced to the players who would buy such a thing will balk and complain. If it is priced to low then revenue drops.

I am not saying Zenimax will never offer such a token. I am saying they will never do such a thing as long as they do not see a compelling reason that makes it worth offering such a token. As it stands now it does not seem they have much interest in this.

kargen27 · September 2022

Amottica wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

"Never got the mentality of "I don't like it so its 100% wrong."

Oh, I do not have that mentality on this. In fact, I could care less.

However, there must be a compelling business reason for doing so and it must not decrease revenue. Considering the sales Zenimax gets on selling mount training, skill lines, and skill points (sky shards) such a token is not likely to come cheap. Then there is the limited market since many players have alts galore which is signified by the number of additional character slots that are available for purchase. These two together are likely both negatives when Zenimax considers such ideas.

If it is priced to the players who would buy such a thing will balk and complain. If it is priced to low then revenue drops.

I am not saying Zenimax will never offer such a token. I am saying they will never do such a thing as long as they do not see a compelling reason that makes it worth offering such a token. As it stands now it does not seem they have much interest in this.

That quote was from Eirikir and I responded to what I quoted saying much as you did that I don't think that way either.

Eirikir · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

"Never got the mentality of "I don't like it so its 100% wrong."

Me either. I have no use at all for the card game but see how many people in my guild are happy with it so I am glad they got it. The card game and the companions don't take away from repeating content and doing a variety of content. They actually promote repeating content and doing a variety of content.
Not so with class change. I suppose it would promote the dolman grind as players get their skill bars maxed out. Other than that it takes from the game.

You quoted me weird. If the game is fragil enough to be supported entirely by people grinding endless alts maybe it deserves to fail.

Dr_Con · September 2022

A class change shrine would be more appropriate, for gold.

A class change token would be scraping the bottom barrel for crowns.

An account-wide unlock for the ability to class change on any character at will would probably be a middle ground, but I would still prefer the gold option. Old SWG vibes.

I would take it a step further and make it so there is a class out there that can only be unlocked through a super rare occurrence. It created a lot of buzz for SWG when they did this, but then they screwed the whole system up in favor of a more simple one, like the one we currently have.

rpa · September 2022

My stealth nightblade is also my main crafter. The CP overhaul with the still continuing green tree silliness made me mildly want to have a class change. Fortunately I tend to play one "main" char at time and do only writs with the rest so I can not stealth nightblade just fine.