I've yet to have a pug clear it.
I've yet to have a pug clear it.I've cleared it twice with random Group Finder PUGs, though I was the tank both times. And I was soloing the orbs.
That said, yes, I do agree that regular vet is overtuned. In fact, on the first day of PTS, I posted the following in the feedback thread: "[W]e were surprised at how tough it is by regular vet standards. [...] The amount of damage done by the flesh atro seems a bit high by regular dungeon vet standards." Someone else in the feedback thread wrote, "I feel the non- HM is around 80% the difficulty of the HM, which is probably not where the line should be drawn. Usually the vet bosses feel around 40- 50% as difficult as the vet HM bosses."
Specifically, the following things surprised me:
- The damage from Sundered Soul is the exact same on regular vet as it is on HM, which means the amount of time you have is the same on regular vet as it is on HM. Their nerf with this mechanic was to make it affect only one person instead of two, but I think what they really needed to do was to give the player more time on regular vet.
- The final stage penalty monster (flesh abomination) has the same health and hits for the same amount in regular vet as it does in HM. I suppose someone might argue that there are fewer Fractured Souls on regular vet, so it would be presumably easier to "downgrade" the flesh abomination into a harmless tiny flesh atro. But with the Afterlife mechanic being so unintuitive, it's unreasonable to expect players to reliably downgrade to a lesser enemy.
- Phantasmal Barrage hits for the same damage on regular vet as as it does on HM. I'm not sure what they're thinking here with this. The difficulty with this is that you have only 1.6s to interrupt, which, for an interruptible mechanic, is on the short side. I've seen streams of groups that ask their tank to put on Crushing Shock so that they can get all the interrupts, which is hilarious, since if they channel at the same time, 1.6s means that you literally don't have enough time to get more than one. Anyway, if they kept the same interrupt window, but halved the damage, that should be fine for regular vet. Or kept the damage but doubled the interrupt window. But they did neither. Instread, the vet mode nerf that they went with was significantly lower health of the copies, so the mechanic ends quickly. But still not quickly enough for a couple of salvos to go off before the first copy can be destroyed.
To be clear, I think that this fight's HM is great and is well-balanced (and easier than U33's overtuned HMs). But the difficulty gap between regular vet and HM is noticeably lower for Graven, and regular vet is quite a bit harder than what I would've expected for regular vet.
On that note, I do encourage people to try the HM here. If you can beat the vet, you can beat the HM since you're already most of the way there. And if you need help, you can read this guide.
We ended up needing to use the lasers from the secret boss to get the atronach down a bunch of hp quickly to finish him and finish the dungeon. I kind of wonder if we hadn’t had the laser if we would’ve been able to kill the flesh atronach fast enough for me to survive.
The boss normally does not drop circles on players standing still. Instead, he picks one player at random and adopts their class abilities. If he copies a sorc, then he'll spam AoEs on everyone, but if he had copied a DK, for example, there will be no AoEs.El_Borracho wrote: »Aside from the points made above, the most frustrating mechanic in this boss fight are the mini AOEs the boss drops under a player who stands still. Good luck trying to rez someone if you’re not a Templar or tank.
The boss will not do the soul split mechanic during the split phase. What's happening to you is that the boss is doing the soul split right before splitting off into 4 copies, causing the two mechanics to overlap. And that's a problem with your group's DPS being "just right". If your group's DPS was a bit lower, then there would be a comfortable amount of time between the soul split and the boss splitting. Or, if your group's DPS was a bit higher, then you can push the boss to the 4 copies before that soul split happens. But unfortunately, your group's DPS is at just the right level that the timing of those mechanics lined up. One option is to slow damage at 80%, wait for a soul split to complete, and then push to the 4 copies.El_Borracho wrote: »Sundered is the real pain during the shades stage. It always hit one player during the shades phase and the gold ghost appears across the room from the player most of the time, making cleansing while trying to maintain interrupts very difficult.
The soul's trajectory is not random. It will always go to one of the 4 windowed walls, and it will always pick the one that's farthest away from the player. So the farther away the player is from the middle of the room when the soul is ripped out, the farther they'll need to run to get to it.El_Borracho wrote: »if the ghost was too far away.
Uh, spoiler alert: They didn't really change Zelvraak today; the adjustments that were made were so small that you wouldn't notice them unless you were looking out for them.I'm glad I managed to do it pre-patch so that personally I know I've done the hard-hard mode
Definitely the hardest regular vet dungeon boss I’ve faced yet. It felt like a HM even tho we had not activated the banner. I tried pugging it and we could get to final boss, but in the end it took a group of guildies to get the job done. I ended up tanking the final boss for our group, and found that to be a very difficult task with the flesh atronach in second phase. We ended up needing to use the lasers from the secret boss to get the atronach down a bunch of hp quickly to finish him and finish the dungeon. I kind of wonder if we hadn’t had the laser if we would’ve been able to kill the flesh atronach fast enough for me to survive. I found the combination of the bosses focused abilities that I couldn’t dodge, and the flesh atronachs constant damage a little much for me as a tank. It’s made me wonder if I should edit my tank build. I was using ebon to help the groups tankiness a little, yolnakrin for damage and a selfish monster helmet stonekeeper. I loved the challenge, but definitely agree with some of the posts that most of that difficulty should be put in the HM. I feel like it was a worthy challenge but I don’t know how accessible it is for many to complete this on veteran.
HushAzrael wrote: »I’ve never seen a dungeon so badly in need of a nerf. That boss fight is absurd. I know very few people that have even cleared it! Pugs are completely hopeless in there.
HushAzrael wrote: »I’ve never seen a dungeon so badly in need of a nerf. That boss fight is absurd. I know very few people that have even cleared it! Pugs are completely hopeless in there.
The very first version of white gold tower and the original version of the laser boss in frost vault were also rather "difficult".
Now they are nerfed so that you can play them with one hand and watching you tube videos on another screen at the same time.
I like how graven deep end boss is now. With my core group friends I've done all hardmodes of all dungeons. If you want all challenges done with your frist try then it would be no challenge at all.
Of course you can't pug it ... .that would be extra ultra mega hardmode.
Only if you rush in there and try to brute-force it without a good strategy. Graven HM's difficulty is 80% strategy and 20% execution of that strategy. If you have a good strategy for the boss, it's an easy HM: easier than Coral or Shipwright, and definitely easier than ERE trifecta, and you should be able to clear it consistently even with new people (I know this from experience; I took two people who had never set foot in the dungeon before with me and we cleared HM on the second or third pull, with no deaths in the pull).Graven deep last boss Hm is harder than deep root enclave trifecta.
Only if you rush in there and try to brute-force it without a good strategy. Graven HM's difficulty is 80% strategy and 20% execution of that strategy. If you have a good strategy for the boss, it's an easy HM: easier than Coral or Shipwright, and definitely easier than ERE trifecta, and you should be able to clear it consistently even with new people (I know this from experience; I took two people who had never set foot in the dungeon before with me and we cleared HM on the second or third pull, with no deaths in the pull).Graven deep last boss Hm is harder than deep root enclave trifecta.
But without a good strategy, where the boss position is wrong, orbs are not assigned, etc., then Graven HM can easily become a very messy and much harder fight.
Unpopular opinion - this dungeon is a masterpiece.
The amount of attention this fight draws out of you is reminiscent of a drawn out fang lair HM execute, or moonhunter keep hm when symbol phase is starting and you have 6 shock wardens and 12 werewolfs alive before they got nerfed to oblivion.
There is very few challenging dungeons left, with most hard modes trimed and nerfed and easily duo-able by myself and my wife, this is a welcomed challenge