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*Thousands of hours on my main Templar. (Don't know how to play now)Question for the Devs?!
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Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭1. Why is the animation changed on the jabs? Good question. It looks and feels terrible and to add insult to injury….it’s just not effective.
2. What do we spam on our main Templars? Shards. Useless for PvP.
3. How can we enjoy the class after u35? Turn it into an RP bot/crafter
4. How do we procceed from this? Hope they undo the abomination that is U35.7 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭In my opinion, the weapon in the animation looks pretty cool as a spear/halberd though the body movement does look a bit like my plar is shoveling a hole. That said, I find my sweeps easier to time in my rotation now as a spammable, and I really haven’t seen any loss in dps (~90k, I’m still practicing) post Lost Depths.0 -
Jarl_Ironheart✭✭✭✭✭SizanLopkniht wrote: »Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »Unpopular opinion: the amount of outcry over the changes to a single skill only goes to show how overpowered it truly was... Where people thatve been playing templar for a "decade" literally can't figure out what to do without it. There's a psijic spammable, a vampire spammable, and a spammable for every weapon. Uuh, the uh... Shucks, what's it called, the fighters guild arrow thingy. Silver shards!
And again, just to reiterate, if you try ALL of these and dont like them or they don't do enough damage then please consider how overpowered it was to have an aoe spammable that did all it did and still do more single target damage than anything I just mentioned.
I posted a thread and one of my points why they changed it is because it was too strong. It did too much for 1 button push. And templar has so much more than spamming jabs.
They didn't just nerf jabs. They also nerfed sweeps and power of the light. They nerfed all three of the main skills templars use at the same time. They did, in fact, make templars the weakest class in one single update.
Oh don't act like that means anything. Every class has been weakest. And some nerfs were needed. Templar is still the easy class to play that still kicks butt.
It means a great deal to every player that mainly plays templar. Templar is now the weakest class by a long shot, all due to a single update.
By a long shot? Really? Calling a class weak or strong in ESO is really a hollow thing. Classes are never far apart in anyway. Some are better than others but not by a long shot like you said. Templar healers are still the best, templars can still melt enemies with their skills and I have a Templar tank that is really good. He is a High Elf that has 36k health, 42k resistances, plenty of stam and mag fully buffed and can heal through damage really well. Just because it doesn't have some of the same buffs or debuffs that other classes have doesn't make it weak. Furthermore, if changing 1 skill on a Templar made it the weakest class by a Longshot then it was very much over performing. The class still rocks.Push Posh Applesauce, Pocket Full of Marmalade.2 -
Jarl_Ironheart✭✭✭✭✭SizanLopkniht wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »Unpopular opinion: the amount of outcry over the changes to a single skill only goes to show how overpowered it truly was... Where people thatve been playing templar for a "decade" literally can't figure out what to do without it. There's a psijic spammable, a vampire spammable, and a spammable for every weapon. Uuh, the uh... Shucks, what's it called, the fighters guild arrow thingy. Silver shards!
And again, just to reiterate, if you try ALL of these and dont like them or they don't do enough damage then please consider how overpowered it was to have an aoe spammable that did all it did and still do more single target damage than anything I just mentioned.
I posted a thread and one of my points why they changed it is because it was too strong. It did too much for 1 button push. And templar has so much more than spamming jabs.
They didn't just nerf jabs. They also nerfed sweeps and power of the light. They nerfed all three of the main skills templars use at the same time. They did, in fact, make templars the weakest class in one single update.
They nerfed 'one button power'. That's all, a single button. So instead of '50k jabs dps' you get '25k jabs dps unless you use other skills like every class has to'.
Allowing Jabs to be so powerful in it's own right was the broken aspect, not the corrective change that allowed it to be a balanced, if somewhat still powerful, move.
Jabs went from 25k (thanks to the light proc) down to 14k plus most of the light proc. Still stronger than a 12k Rapid Strikes, but now balanced to be a sensible move.
It shows a lot of people only played Templar so they could 1 button kill everything - not a healthy attitude.
Not true. They also nerfed the other main skills templars use, all in a single update. They didn't just nerf jabs. They nerfed the majority of the dps skills templars use.
Which skills did they nerf? Tell us in detail please? Because i still see jabs shredding, burning light proccing on all damage is a buff, jesus beam does more damage, ritual of retribution is a powetful AOE dot and shards was never a true dps skill, it always did low dot damage. If you're referring to the extended duration that's not a true nerf to just templars because every class got that treatment.Push Posh Applesauce, Pocket Full of Marmalade.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Captain_Devildog wrote: »I don't know what to spam on my Templar, i can't enjoy the class like before. After playing this game for a decade on the same class.
The problem:
Nobody knows how to play the Templar with joy and fun.
1. Why is the animation changed on the jabs?
2. What do we spam on our main Templars?
3. How can we enjoy the class after u35?
4. How do we procceed from this?
1. Getting the main spammable on the GCD (change from 1 to .8sec) so it can be weaved effectively should have been done years ago. This was objectively an excellent change for any competitive player.
2. For most things, you still spam sweep. They certainly nerfed the skill too hard, it will get buffed in the next patch or two. For pure single target DPS, shards is actually your best spammable now.
3. I am actually playing more templar than I have in a long time. They are still the best training wheels class in the game. I can still join GF and taunt, chain, debuff, and jab spam for about 60% of group DPS on average.
4. Adapt (slightly) and play the darn game.
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virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »SizanLopkniht wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »Unpopular opinion: the amount of outcry over the changes to a single skill only goes to show how overpowered it truly was... Where people thatve been playing templar for a "decade" literally can't figure out what to do without it. There's a psijic spammable, a vampire spammable, and a spammable for every weapon. Uuh, the uh... Shucks, what's it called, the fighters guild arrow thingy. Silver shards!
And again, just to reiterate, if you try ALL of these and dont like them or they don't do enough damage then please consider how overpowered it was to have an aoe spammable that did all it did and still do more single target damage than anything I just mentioned.
I posted a thread and one of my points why they changed it is because it was too strong. It did too much for 1 button push. And templar has so much more than spamming jabs.
They didn't just nerf jabs. They also nerfed sweeps and power of the light. They nerfed all three of the main skills templars use at the same time. They did, in fact, make templars the weakest class in one single update.
They nerfed 'one button power'. That's all, a single button. So instead of '50k jabs dps' you get '25k jabs dps unless you use other skills like every class has to'.
Allowing Jabs to be so powerful in it's own right was the broken aspect, not the corrective change that allowed it to be a balanced, if somewhat still powerful, move.
Jabs went from 25k (thanks to the light proc) down to 14k plus most of the light proc. Still stronger than a 12k Rapid Strikes, but now balanced to be a sensible move.
It shows a lot of people only played Templar so they could 1 button kill everything - not a healthy attitude.
Not true. They also nerfed the other main skills templars use, all in a single update. They didn't just nerf jabs. They nerfed the majority of the dps skills templars use.
Which skills did they nerf? Tell us in detail please? Because i still see jabs shredding, burning light proccing on all damage is a buff, jesus beam does more damage, ritual of retribution is a powetful AOE dot and shards was never a true dps skill, it always did low dot damage. If you're referring to the extended duration that's not a true nerf to just templars because every class got that treatment.
Jabs: cut out 1 of 4 hits, reduced the remaining 3 by 21% --> 40%+ nerf to the spammable. No, it does not outparse Rapid Strikes unless you deliberately refuse to run a source of Major Brutality/Sorcery.
Burning Light: reduced damage by 33% and made it proc half as often --> 67% nerf to a skill that was procced mostly by the spammable
Ritual of Retribution: Yes, this was an actual nerf, and quite a big one because of the 52% nerf to the first tick, the doubling of the scaling factor (5% --> 12% per tick), and the extended duration that the devs have still neglected to revert despite saying they would. All of that combines for a skill that violates their own standards for ground-based DoTs and is incredibly back-end loaded, meaning the longer duration works against it even worse than it did the skills that they reverted back to 10-15 seconds. Very many bosses in this game (especially DLC content) either move frequently or have invulnerability phases, and any missed ticks significantly harms the power of this skill, especially ticks that are missed in the second half of the skill's duration now, since it starts much lower and needs time to build up. They extended the duration of RoR to 20 seconds with week 1 of last PTS, along with other DoTs and HoTs. In week 3 they acknowledged that longer GROUND-based/STATIC DoT/HoT durations over 15 seconds were not very feasible given the nature of combat in this game. They shortened all other ground DoTs/HoTs back to between 10 and 15 seconds, as they explicitly stated in the patch notes for week 3 and again in the live notes. But they left Ritual untouched. It has significantly harmed the dps of this skill in those mobile/phased encounters, as the devs realized at the beginning of the PTS cycle. They just haven't bothered to act on that acknowledgement by reverting Ritual along with other ground DoTs/HoTs. I don't know if they got confused because Ritual has always ticked every 2 seconds, but it is quite obviously a ground-based skill, not a sticky one, and deserves to have its duration reverted like all other ground-based skills were in week 3 of the PTS for the same reason those other skills were reverted.
Here is the relevant quote from 8.1.2:
"Adjusted Damage over Time abilities that are bound to a static area back to 10 seconds, 12 seconds, or 15 seconds depending on their sourced skill line."
Ritual is a DoT ability bound to a static area. Yet it retains its extended duration of 20 seconds from week 1 of U35 PTS, not the 12 seconds it had in U34 and before.
Here is the relevant quote from live notes:
"Adjusted Player Damage over Time abilities to generally follow the following rules, based on their type: ...
Static based Damage over Time abilities will continue to last between 10 and 15 seconds based on their sourced skill line."
They are ignoring their own goals and standards here, to the extreme detriment of this skill. Ritual doesn't "continue" to have the same 12-second duration it had in U34 and before. It has a new, longer duration that directly contradicts the devs' own statements in the PTS and live patch notes. And while they did say "generally" follow, they have neglected either to revert the skill or to explain their thinking in keeping it at the longer 20 seconds despite their acknowledgment that that harms static/ground-based DoT efficacy in a significant way in many combat encounters in this game.12 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
They have no idea, [snip]Does anyone truly want expect the devs to answer these question? Anything they had to say has already been said, in all likelihood.
In short they does not have to answer to any changes they do except to the ones above them why will call them out if revenue or engagement dropped a lot.
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 18, 2022 5:37PMGrinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
Mythgard1967✭✭✭✭✭UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Jarl_Ironheart wrote: »Unpopular opinion: the amount of outcry over the changes to a single skill only goes to show how overpowered it truly was... Where people thatve been playing templar for a "decade" literally can't figure out what to do without it. There's a psijic spammable, a vampire spammable, and a spammable for every weapon. Uuh, the uh... Shucks, what's it called, the fighters guild arrow thingy. Silver shards!
And again, just to reiterate, if you try ALL of these and dont like them or they don't do enough damage then please consider how overpowered it was to have an aoe spammable that did all it did and still do more single target damage than anything I just mentioned.
I posted a thread and one of my points why they changed it is because it was too strong. It did too much for 1 button push. And templar has so much more than spamming jabs.
They didn't just nerf jabs. They also nerfed sweeps and power of the light. They nerfed all three of the main skills templars use at the same time. They did, in fact, make templars the weakest class in one single update.
My Magplar now plays different and took some getting used to; but, ultimately came out about the same before and after.
My Stamplar actually improved with U35.
My Warden feels gutted though.
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OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭Captain_Devildog wrote: »Unpopular opinion: the amount of outcry over the changes to a single skill only goes to show how overpowered it truly was... Where people thatve been playing templar for a "decade" literally can't figure out what to do without it. There's a psijic spammable, a vampire spammable, and a spammable for every weapon. Uuh, the uh... Shucks, what's it called, the fighters guild arrow thingy. Silver shards!
And again, just to reiterate, if you try ALL of these and dont like them or they don't do enough damage then please consider how overpowered it was to have an aoe spammable that did all it did and still do more single target damage than anything I just mentioned.
That doesn't make sense at all, that's like saying you chop 4 of the 5 fingers from someone's hand. And then you say the amount of outcry you have means how useful your fingers are.
Yeah you can life with one finger if you don't know better, but if you used to your whole hand then it will become really upsetting.
I mean... What I said made plenty of sense, whether you agree with it or not. The skill healed, snared, and did AoE damage in amounts that rivaled and beat most single target spammables. Maybe from a PvE perspective you didn't realize how overloaded it was but from a PvP perspective it was insane.
I think, honestly, it was just templars turn for nerfs and templars are so salty because they havent had much to complain about in... Ever. Which is why you played a single class for 8 years and only now don't know what to do.
Welcome to the ever changing meta. Might I suggest you try some of the other classes, it makes the game more fun and makes these 3-month transitions easier.
So, going back to your metaphor but changing it to how I think it is: Its like you've been watching people get their fingers cut off around you for 8 years and relearn how to tie their shoes but when they cut your finger off you cried, "oh no, not my thumb, I use my thumb for everything!"
Of course they cut your thumb off. Your pinky wasn't a problem.0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I mean... What I said made plenty of sense, whether you agree with it or not. The skill healed, snared, and did AoE damage in amounts that rivaled and beat most single target spammables. Maybe from a PvE perspective you didn't realize how overloaded it was but from a PvP perspective it was insane.
This is a really an uninformed comment. Yes, sweeps has always been a good skill. But it was never insane. Only one morph heals. Both morphs snared. But being a channel, the Templar is also snared when they cast it. And this is the main thing that uninformed players don't seem to understand. Yes, it did aoe along with increased single. But both the aoe and the single have always been weakened by Major Evasion (20% aoe dmg reduction), which many players use. Furthermore, when attacking a group, we've never had any control over where our single increased dmg portion of the skill hits.I think, honestly, it was just templars turn for nerfs and templars are so salty because they havent had much to complain about in... Ever. Which is why you played a single class for 8 years and only now don't know what to do.
Templars have received numerous nerfs over the years. They have also received some buffs, too. So I cannot fathom why you would say what you say unless you lack knowledge about Templars.
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Jarl_Ironheart✭✭✭✭✭I mean... What I said made plenty of sense, whether you agree with it or not. The skill healed, snared, and did AoE damage in amounts that rivaled and beat most single target spammables. Maybe from a PvE perspective you didn't realize how overloaded it was but from a PvP perspective it was insane.
This is a really an uninformed comment. Yes, sweeps has always been a good skill. But it was never insane. Only one morph heals. Both morphs snared. But being a channel, the Templar is also snared when they cast it. And this is the main thing that uninformed players don't seem to understand. Yes, it did aoe along with increased single. But both the aoe and the single have always been weakened by Major Evasion (20% aoe dmg reduction), which many players use. Furthermore, when attacking a group, we've never had any control over where our single increased dmg portion of the skill hits.I think, honestly, it was just templars turn for nerfs and templars are so salty because they havent had much to complain about in... Ever. Which is why you played a single class for 8 years and only now don't know what to do.
Templars have received numerous nerfs over the years. They have also received some buffs, too. So I cannot fathom why you would say what you say unless you lack knowledge about Templars.
Well to be fair with ring of pale order on you get the same heal now as sweeps basically.Push Posh Applesauce, Pocket Full of Marmalade.0 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean... What I said made plenty of sense, whether you agree with it or not. The skill healed, snared, and did AoE damage in amounts that rivaled and beat most single target spammables. Maybe from a PvE perspective you didn't realize how overloaded it was but from a PvP perspective it was insane.
This is a really an uninformed comment. Yes, sweeps has always been a good skill. But it was never insane. Only one morph heals. Both morphs snared. But being a channel, the Templar is also snared when they cast it. And this is the main thing that uninformed players don't seem to understand. Yes, it did aoe along with increased single. But both the aoe and the single have always been weakened by Major Evasion (20% aoe dmg reduction), which many players use. Furthermore, when attacking a group, we've never had any control over where our single increased dmg portion of the skill hits.I think, honestly, it was just templars turn for nerfs and templars are so salty because they havent had much to complain about in... Ever. Which is why you played a single class for 8 years and only now don't know what to do.
Templars have received numerous nerfs over the years. They have also received some buffs, too. So I cannot fathom why you would say what you say unless you lack knowledge about Templars.
Shuffle has become hard to want to use since hybridization due to the desire to want to integrate more diverse armor weights. Yes it has always been a good counter to jabs-- walk through them-- yes I know. And roll dodge when the templar lifts their hand-- yes I knew that trick too. Nevertheless templars have been if not the 1st then the 2nd best pvp class for as long as I've played the game.
If you disagree with that then I'm afraid you're even worse off than being uninformed. You're informed but reaching the wrong conclusion.
Templar has been so strong in PvP since I started playing that, out of petty arrogance I suppose, I refused to ever make one. So yes, you do know more about the skills and passives than I do. But I know what its like to fight against them... And I know what approximate percentage of the PvP community use them... [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 18, 2022 5:41PM0 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Captain_Devildog wrote: »I don't know what to spam on my Templar, i can't enjoy the class like before. After playing this game for a decade on the same class.
The problem:
Nobody knows how to play the Templar with joy and fun.
1. Why is the animation changed on the jabs?
2. What do we spam on our main Templars?
3. How can we enjoy the class after u35?
4. How do we procceed from this?
I think that is my issue with this more than anything... you replace something iconic with virtually nothing and its like I know this isn't right so... where do we go from here? lol
Some might say, "well you need to just accept it" but its like... I know its wrong lol. How many times are we going to get left to eat static and told just to accept a terrible change? Have seen many people use beam alot more now so I guess they'll come after that next.
Really, really disappointed however still hopeful that maybe at some point we can get at that class change token and I can be done with Templar for good.Edited by Vulkunne on September 16, 2022 1:16AMThank you for your attention to this matter.5 -
freespirit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It seems in all these "they've ruined Templar" anyone who says "Hey I'm still loving mine" is accused of trolling or flat out lying
My very first main was a Sorc but within a few months way back in 2014 I discovered Templars and mine has been my main ever since!
My Sorc is my crafter and still does well in most content but she's a bit fire adverse as she's also my only vampire.
I admit I changed my Templar build about 3 weeks before Update 35 to try complete some harder content before it hit as I had read all the doom and gloom threads. I did what I wanted to do and was saddened by the thought I was going to lose my best friend.......
Guess what?? I haven't, the new animation no longer bothers me and my new build works just as well as it did before the update Infact during the current event I've added many more vet dungeons to my completed solo list!
Does jabs do less damage? Yes it does. Is it still a go to skill when dealing with multiple dungeon mobs? Hell yes! The only difference for me now is that instead of literally spamming one button, I am using more dots to get that missing damage back.
I'm still loving my Templar I hope you guys can fall back in love with yours too!
When people say to me........
"You're going to regret that in the morning"
I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!2 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Can I not comment on caluurions or dark convergence because I don't use them? What I'm saying is templar always looked to me like easy meta mode. I think when talking about PvP you need to consider the opposite perspective to be of equal or GREATER importance. Its the guy getting hit by it who might have something to say about balance. I'm not here on a secret mission to "keep the templar down" I'm just saying theyve been A+ for 4+ years. And if you don't know that... And you don't think your class should be subject to the same ups and downs as everybody else... Well, there's really nothing left to be said. Not sure why you choose to ignore that looming fact that the entire PvP community really should know in favor of little quips.0 -
ForumBully✭✭✭✭✭
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Can I not comment on caluurions or dark convergence because I don't use them? What I'm saying is templar always looked to me like easy meta mode. I think when talking about PvP you need to consider the opposite perspective to be of equal or GREATER importance. Its the guy getting hit by it who might have something to say about balance. I'm not here on a secret mission to "keep the templar down" I'm just saying theyve been A+ for 4+ years. And if you don't know that... And you don't think your class should be subject to the same ups and downs as everybody else... Well, there's really nothing left to be said. Not sure why you choose to ignore that looming fact that the entire PvP community really should know in favor of little quips.
Templar has mostly been good, but the past few years I'd say easy street in Cyrodiil is packed with stamina NBs, Dks, Wardens and Necros. I wouldn't rate stamina or magicka templars as meta for a long time.6 -
RaikaNA✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unpopular opinion: the amount of outcry over the changes to a single skill only goes to show how overpowered it truly was... Where people thatve been playing templar for a "decade" literally can't figure out what to do without it. There's a psijic spammable, a vampire spammable, and a spammable for every weapon. Uuh, the uh... Shucks, what's it called, the fighters guild arrow thingy. Silver shards!
And again, just to reiterate, if you try ALL of these and dont like them or they don't do enough damage then please consider how overpowered it was to have an aoe spammable that did all it did and still do more single target damage than anything I just mentioned.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Templars are not overpowering... Jabs may have an aoe spammable, but so what? Why does it have to be a single target? Not everyone wants to use psijic spammable.. who wants to light attack as their source of spammable? Certainly not I. Vampires are completely useless for pve so why do I want to turn my beautiful mortal character into a walking chalkboard just for its spammable? No.
I disagree with your opinion.4 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.
Thank you for your understanding.Edited by ZOS_Icy on September 18, 2022 5:43PM0
