Would you be OK with ZOS not releasing 1 or 2 content updates and fixed bugs instead?

Dragonnord · September 2022

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mzprx wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

...Sure! Game braking and so important is that bug that has been almost forever and have survived millions of battles.

PvP has been empty for 10 years because of that bug, right?

Rejected.

have you ever heard of World of Tanks? i play it from time to time. one of the most toxic, broken PTW games out there. and still one of the most played games ever. players will put up with a lot of negative stuff if they like the game. so even though the never ending "in combat" bug exists it doesn't mean the game is going to be empty. it's just very frustrating. and one of those bugs that have endured in the game for a long time..

Dragonnord wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

What bugs?

Name one bug that is game breaking. In fact, name a bug of medium importance that needs to be fixed asap.

The game is in a solid state.

Oh boy, where to start... perma in-combat literally makes it impossible to progress unless your groupmates are able to pull you through to boss fight, Cyrodiil becomes marathon running track. Skills not firing that can be the death of you. Random crashes that some people still experiences and etc. Surely, bug-free game indeed, yes.

Perma in-combat in PvE? Where? In Wayrest Sewers because people aggro and don't kill the crocodiles in first room, so they remain in combat and then think the door is bugged?
Also, if you are in a group and your team mates are in combat it's logic you are in combat too (it's a group), so wait until they finish or you'll be pulled if it's a boss.

I answered the Cyrodiil in-combat bug above already.

Skills not firing? When? Time your animation cancelling better then and don't send two requests at the same time for hurring your clicks. If you do that, I'll assure you 100% that every single skill will fire. Just don't hurry them or learn to know their cast times and timings.

Random crashes? When it's ZOS fault they fix them asap in weekly maintenances.
Otherwise, show me proof that is the game and not addons or potato machines causing them and we'll talk.

i have encountered being stuck in permanent combat in Deshaan a couple of days ago. for no reason. it's not just Wayrest Sewers..

you have answered the Cyrodiil combat bug above, but that answer doesn't make sense. if a bug exists in the game and it's not been fixed in years there's something wrong with the developers. they are either lazy or they don't know how to fix it. but if such bug exists you can not say the game is in a "solid state". if you haven't encountered this particular bug you haven't been to Cyrodiil enough..

if you go to YT you can find a lot of videos where skills or abilities weren't firing. one of the funnier ones - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGpPDv6r6nI

and regarding the random crashes, i will try to have a couple of friends to visit this thread and tell you about their experience. they are not using any addons, have decent PCs and yet they randomly crash every-now-and-then...

I've been playing since beta, have experienced everything, and the game is in a solid state.

Take it as you want, but game's completely playable and needs no urgent attention on bugs.

Content is what it's required to keep it,going.

PS: Tell your friends to bring proof, not just words or mouth blah, blah, blah's...

rpa · September 2022

other (please elaborate)

One should focus on keeping the project maintainable from the very begining. It's always too late after that.

boi_anachronism_ · September 2022

Fix Bugs

Dragonnord wrote: »

What bugs?

Name one bug that is game breaking. In fact, name a bug of medium importance that needs to be fixed asap.

The game is in a solid state.

I love that I get kicked out of vet trials at the last boss randomly. Or the fact that reallocating my cp causes my game to crash spontaneously, maybe the fact that in game controls stops functioning until I closed the app and reloaded, instant fix (brand new controller by the way so it's absolutely not my controller), I'm set as in combat at the end of dungeons so I can't get achievements even when I kill all mobs and bosses. Abilities don't fire and ultis don't proc randomly, you can actually see them being initiated on bar but don't actually go off. Randomly can't bar swap and character will fight unarmed with weapon sheathed in combat sometimes too. People are reporting cp level resets on PC and missing mats. I can continue.

Dragonnord · September 2022

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boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

What bugs?

Name one bug that is game breaking. In fact, name a bug of medium importance that needs to be fixed asap.

The game is in a solid state.

I love that I get kicked out of vet trials at the last boss randomly. Or the fact that reallocating my cp causes my game to crash spontaneously, maybe the fact that in game controls stops functioning until I closed the app and reloaded, instant fix (brand new controller by the way so it's absolutely not my controller), I'm set as in combat at the end of dungeons so I can't get achievements even when I kill all mobs and bosses. Abilities don't fire and ultis don't proc randomly, you can actually see them being initiated on bar but don't actually go off. Randomly can't bar swap and character will fight unarmed with weapon sheathed in combat sometimes too. People are reporting cp level resets on PC and missing mats. I can continue.

Missing mats, yes, a not-usual bug that can happen (as any bug can happen in any game). Open a ticket. Solved. Next.

Ablities not proccing I explained above. Show me video proof of you clicking abilities second after second (not desperately in a hurry sending several requests at once to the server) and they not firing. I'm sure they will all fire perfectly.

And all the rest you mention I'm 100% it's addons fault. Remove all the addons and see if your game crashes once. Show me video proof that your game crashes in several ways without addons. I'm sure you won't and can't..

It's all complains, and complains, and complains about everything. Meh!

Like it or not, the game is in a great solid state.

Lebkuchen · September 2022

Fix Bugs

Dragonnord wrote: »

[...]I'm sure they will all fire perfectly.

And all the rest you mention I'm 100% it's addons fault. Remove all the addons and see if your game crashes once. Show me video proof that your game crashes in several ways without addons. I'm sure you won't and can't..

It's all complains, and complains, and complains about everything. Meh!

Like it or not, the game is in a great solid state.

Why would customers complain for years if the game was in a "great solid state"? You think complaining is fun? You can find enough "proof" online and do not need to "explain" anything. You are playing on the best platform right now, PC NA with new servers. Maybe you got lucky and it works fine for you. But you can not speak for PC EU, Xbox and Playstation players.

LalMirchi · September 2022

I for one am quite sure that there is an eventual goal here. Something that is not yet accessible but still in reach.

A conversation, back and forth? That would be useful, but they o not utilise the best ideas her.

However even the "Award-Winning" Communications team does not seem to have a grip on the deep divergence between the Companies perceived communication versus the perception of the customers, who almost unanimously express their concerns.

It's not OK to be serfs in a virtual world.

Dragonnord · September 2022

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Lebkuchen wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

[...]I'm sure they will all fire perfectly.

And all the rest you mention I'm 100% it's addons fault. Remove all the addons and see if your game crashes once. Show me video proof that your game crashes in several ways without addons. I'm sure you won't and can't..

It's all complains, and complains, and complains about everything. Meh!

Like it or not, the game is in a great solid state.

But you can not speak for PC EU, Xbox and Playstation players.

Does this thread say something about PC EU, XboX or Playstation specifically? No! So I'm responding about the game I'm playing.

Want to report a specific bug on a specific platform or region? Then make it specific.

Also, clearly, many of you have never played a game that has game-braking bugs nor experienced a game-breaking bug.

That's why you are complaining about regular bugs that every single game has.

ESO is in a solid state, and is much, much, much more solid that other big MMOS out there.

mzprx · September 2022

Fix Bugs

Dragonnord wrote: »

...Ablities not proccing I explained above. Show me video proof of you clicking abilities second after second (not desperately in a hurry sending several requests at once to the server) and they not firing. I'm sure they will all fire perfectly.

And all the rest you mention I'm 100% it's addons fault. Remove all the addons and see if your game crashes once. Show me video proof that your game crashes in several ways without addons. I'm sure you won't and can't..

It's all complains, and complains, and complains about everything. Meh!

Like it or not, the game is in a great solid state.

clicking "desperately in a hurry sending several requests at once to the server" should have no effect on the skill actually firing. that is just grasping at straws. you seem to be a big fan of video proofs, so i can jump into another online game, click like crazy and show you that abilities will work just fine. and i can record all that. will you then accept that our issue is real? let me know and i will do it (click like crazy and make the video)..

also, requiring video proof from everyone is nonsensical. not everyone can or know how to make videos. and even if they do they don't have to encounter said bug(s) exactly when their video recording software is running. so it's easy to say "you won't and you can't". but it's not just one person saying it. or two. or three. you can go on YT and find a ton of videos of people complaining about crashes. about skills not firing. there are other threads with other players saying the same thing. so if a lot of players tell you that the game has serious issues you can't keep saying "show me proof" all the time. you can't just dismiss us as if we were rubbish just because you don't encounter said bugs. but i implore you - go to Cyrodiil. stay there for some time. and you'll see what it means to be stuck in combat for ever. you'll see what it means to have a debuff on you that'll last more than hundred years. i could go on. but you will probably just dismiss it again, as i have no video proof, just my experience..

Dragonnord · September 2022

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mzprx wrote: »

so i can jump into another online game, click like crazy and show you that abilities will work just fine.

No, because ESO works like this since... ever? Why you want it to work like other games? It's Nonsense. The ESO combat system is like this, if you don't like it then that's a different thing.

mzprx wrote: »

go to Cyrodiil. stay there for some time. and you'll see what it means to be stuck in combat

I have done PvP for years. So don't assume or tell me to go to Cyrodiil. Besides, I already said that I know about that bug, and I also mentioned people have been playing with that bug for years just fine. So no game-braking.

More content is what we need, no irrelevant bug fixes.

ljl227 · September 2022

Fix Bugs

I think irrelevant bug fixes are subjective, if you are annoyed by any number of bugs, and it drives you to cancel your subscription and stop playing, as it did for me, I don't think those bugs are irrelevant. The fact that I have achievements that I don't get credit for despite having completed the content. Content I can't complete because I can't damage the boss. Leveling points in Kari's Hit List quest I only recieved half of because of a bug that's been there since it was released. I could go on. I stopped playing for 6 months. I love the game and am playing without a sub now and the bugs bother me less, however I don't think I'm in the minority and game breaking, maybe not, drives players away, definitely.

Dragonnord · September 2022

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ljl227 wrote: »

I think irrelevant bug fixes are subjective, if you are annoyed by any number of bugs, and it drives you to cancel your subscription and stop playing, as it did for me, I don't think those bugs are irrelevant. The fact that I have achievements that I don't get credit for despite having completed the content. Content I can't complete because I can't damage the boss. Leveling points in Kari's Hit List quest I only recieved half of because of a bug that's been there since it was released. I could go on. I stopped playing for 6 months. I love the game and am playing without a sub now and the bugs bother me less, however I don't think I'm in the minority and game breaking, maybe not, drives players away, definitely.

If you canceled your sub and stop playing because of bugs that ALL games have and ALL games will ALWAYS have then MMOs (most than any other genre) are not for you.

Bugs exist and will always exist, that's why WEEKLY MAINTENANCE is for, to regularly fix common stuff that happens.

If you love the game as you say, then you should understand what I said above, take it easy, and resub back.

Charon_on_Vacation · September 2022

other (please elaborate)

Dragonnord wrote: »

ESO is in a solid state, and is much, much, much more solid that other big MMOS out there.

much, much, much more solid than other big MMOs?
are you serious?

Luke_Flamesword · September 2022

other (please elaborate)

Yuu know that most developers doing dlc are not capable to fixing the game (for example 2D i 3D artist, loremasters, writers, VO people, etc.) - what they will do in meantime? Also I pay eso+ and I'm paying for free DLC every quarter.

What we really need is hiring more people by ZOS to catch up some work (I don't believe that there is no money for that) and not skipping new content.

alanmatillab16_ESO · September 2022

It would be silly to expect Bob the Janitor to fix bugs in the code so why do you expect Bob the Lore Writer or Bob the 3D Designer to do the same?

For Vekhs Sake why do players think everyone working at a games company to know every possible skillset involved in developing and maintaining a MMO?

Charon_on_Vacation · September 2022

other (please elaborate)

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

It would be silly to expect Bob the Janitor to fix bugs in the code so why do you expect Bob the Lore Writer or Bob the 3D Designer to do the same?

For Vekhs Sake why do players think everyone working at a games company to know every possible skillset involved in developing and maintaining a MMO?

most don't, but know that the allocation of the budget has a huge impact on the development of the game, which is the deciding factor in which direction the game dev is going.
outsourcing is the key word here.
there is a good chance that a lot of "bob the 3d designer" guys are not zos employees to begin with.

IZZEFlameLash · September 2022

Fix Bugs

Dragonnord wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

What bugs?

Name one bug that is game breaking. In fact, name a bug of medium importance that needs to be fixed asap.

The game is in a solid state.

Oh boy, where to start... perma in-combat literally makes it impossible to progress unless your groupmates are able to pull you through to boss fight, Cyrodiil becomes marathon running track. Skills not firing that can be the death of you. Random crashes that some people still experiences and etc. Surely, bug-free game indeed, yes.

Perma in-combat in PvE? Where? In Wayrest Sewers because people aggro and don't kill the crocodiles in first room, so they remain in combat and then think the door is bugged?
Also, if you are in a group and your team mates are in combat it's logic you are in combat too (it's a group), so wait until they finish or you'll be pulled if it's a boss.

I answered the Cyrodiil in-combat bug above already.

Skills not firing? When? Time your animation cancelling better then and don't send two requests at the same time for hurring your clicks. If you do that, I'll assure you 100% that every single skill will fire. Just don't hurry them or learn to know their cast times and timings.

Random crashes? When it's ZOS fault they fix them asap in weekly maintenances.
Otherwise, show me proof that is the game and not addons or potato machines causing them and we'll talk.

It ain't just Wayrest. It happens every dungeon. Wayrest just happen to be the dungeon that it rears its ugly head in the most. You can kill every single aggro'd mobs and you can still be well stuck in combat.

You can time it perfectly and you still run the risk of skills not firing. I wish it was just timing thing, but it isn't. There's also sister problem of bars not swapping. Reason why many people loved Oakensoul 1 bar btw.

Random crashes with the symptomps that existed since the beginning isn't an issue to you? It sure does seem to eat away people's willingness to play a game from what I can tell.

Dragonnord · September 2022

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IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

1 - It ain't just Wayrest. It happens every dungeon. Wayrest just happen to be the dungeon that it rears its ugly head in the most. You can kill every single aggro'd mobs and you can still be well stuck in combat.

2 - You can time it perfectly and you still run the risk of skills not firing. I wish it was just timing thing, but it isn't. There's also sister problem of bars not swapping. Reason why many people loved Oakensoul 1 bar btw.

3 - Random crashes with the symptomps that existed since the beginning isn't an issue to you? It sure does seem to eat away people's willingness to play a game from what I can tell.

1 - Show me proof of you or ANYONE stuck in combat in any dungeon after killing all mobs.
Btw, I explained the Wayrest situation (seems you don't like to read) that people think it's a bug, where it's not.

2 - Show me proof of you timing skills (min 1 second delay between skills) where skill get stuck. If you desperately hurry the skills is your fault. Otherwise, show me proof that you are right-timing them and they are not firing.

3 - Addons fault. Otherwise, just common bugs (as in any game) that ZOS ALWAYS ACKNOWLEDGE and fix with weekly maintenances.

Drammanoth · September 2022

Fix Bugs

Guys, I guess some specific individual seem to be rather zealous and adamant in his / her opinion.

Zealots have this feature - no amount of evidence will be sufficient to prove him / her otherwise. Even if he / she has experienced this him/herself

There are vids where players cannot use their skills - google "eso skills not working" and you will have some vids. The earliest one is from 2018.

No, not "naming and shaming"

karthrag_inak · September 2022

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As has been demonstrated with U35, not all "fixes" are necessary, or even universally perceived as such, and this is nothing new.

Given the team's track record, khajiit would not wish to miss out on new adventures so that well-meaning but misguided efforts would be wasted on fixes of things that are not broken, and often make things worse.

BlueRaven · September 2022

other (please elaborate)

I have run into bugs in game, but Total War crashes, Skyrim still has bugs, The Fallout games have bugs, Hitman has bugs, Balders Gate has bugs, Cyberpunk even after all their updates has bugs…

I can’t think of a modern game that runs 100% smooth all the time.

Yeah every once in a while I need to “/resetui” or even relog. But ESO lacks any truly game breaking bugs on the PC.
(On the Mac, well, that’s a different story. They have neglected the Mac client for years now. But I hardly think this thread is here for the defense of Mac users.)

I_killed_Vivec · September 2022

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I tend to assume that when I see skills not go off, or bars not changing, or an ultimate not firing when I expect, that the issue is user incompetence. It's convenient to blame the game, but deep down I know it's me

The bug that I still encounter most often is the crash on logging out between chars. Though restarting the game gives me the opportunity to clear any memory leaks

The latest bug I had today was when I was AFK (in the bank in Davon's Watch, so I know nothing was happening), I came back to find the game had crashed. No biggie, I'd have been logged out in any case.

I want them to finish the story... just to find out the obvious.

That Lord Bacaro is the Ascendant Lord

Idinuse · September 2022

Fix Bugs

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

I tend to assume that when I see skills not go off, or bars not changing, or an ultimate not firing when I expect, that the issue is user incompetence. It's convenient to blame the game, but deep down I know it's me

The bug that I still encounter most often is the crash on logging out between chars.
Though restarting the game gives me the opportunity to clear any memory leaks
The latest bug I had today was when I was AFK (in the bank in Davon's Watch, so I know nothing was happening), I came back to find the game had crashed. No biggie, I'd have been logged out in any case.

I want them to finish the story... just to find out the obvious.
That Lord Bacaro is the Ascendant Lord

Try Intelligent Standby List Cleaner, https://www.wagnardsoft.com/content/intelligent-standby-list-cleaner-v1000-released

Gray_howling_parrot · September 2022

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They shouldnt have to fully pledge CRUCIAL update time to this - it should be fixed alongside every other thing they bring into the game with how much money theyre bringing in. They haven't released any real MMO-like features since Greymoor. If they completed stopped with adding playable content just to fix bugs they would absolutely kill their game. This topic is so old at this point

Blinx · September 2022

other (please elaborate)

imo if they used the cycle devoted to dungeons, I don't think many would care too much

Nomadic_Atmoran · September 2022

other (please elaborate)

Doesnt matter. ZOS would only go for that IF the suits thought it was necessary. And since the current ship can keep on sailing with all the holes in it with minimum maintenance then its going to keep moving forward like it is. Bug Fixes doesnt make them money and thats the only thing they measure things by. If bug fixes got to a point that it was costing them profits and they thought possibly a 6 month period of content pause with bug fixes would right things. Maybe. MAYBE they would do it. But its just as likely they shutter further development and put the game in maintenance mode.

Amottica · September 2022

Blinx wrote: »

imo if they used the cycle devoted to dungeons, I don't think many would care too much

and again, the amount of increased effort to work on bugs would be so negligible that it would be meaningless. It does not make sense to have many of the teams that create content sit around and do nothing or worse, lay them off because they do not have the skills to work in fixing such bugs. That is exactly what is being suggested here by the nature of the skills of the related team members.

boi_anachronism_ · September 2022

Fix Bugs

Dragonnord wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

What bugs?

Name one bug that is game breaking. In fact, name a bug of medium importance that needs to be fixed asap.

The game is in a solid state.

I love that I get kicked out of vet trials at the last boss randomly. Or the fact that reallocating my cp causes my game to crash spontaneously, maybe the fact that in game controls stops functioning until I closed the app and reloaded, instant fix (brand new controller by the way so it's absolutely not my controller), I'm set as in combat at the end of dungeons so I can't get achievements even when I kill all mobs and bosses. Abilities don't fire and ultis don't proc randomly, you can actually see them being initiated on bar but don't actually go off. Randomly can't bar swap and character will fight unarmed with weapon sheathed in combat sometimes too. People are reporting cp level resets on PC and missing mats. I can continue.

Missing mats, yes, a not-usual bug that can happen (as any bug can happen in any game). Open a ticket. Solved. Next.

Ablities not proccing I explained above. Show me video proof of you clicking abilities second after second (not desperately in a hurry sending several requests at once to the server) and they not firing. I'm sure they will all fire perfectly.

And all the rest you mention I'm 100% it's addons fault. Remove all the addons and see if your game crashes once. Show me video proof that your game crashes in several ways without addons. I'm sure you won't and can't..

It's all complains, and complains, and complains about everything. Meh!

Like it or not, the game is in a great solid state.

I'm. On. Playstation. I have no add-ons. I have clipped the skill issue and sent it to zos. Ultis not firing when it's the first skill I use entering combat and no other input has happened is a bug. toons being unable to unsheath weapons is a bug. Vdsr having audio issue where the audio follows me after the trial is over is a bug. Countless people have talked about a lot of the bugs I mentioned. The cp crash one has been happening constantly for at least 2 months. What on earth are you talking about.

Edit: Another good one: in a vdsr 2 weeks back we replaced a player on the final boss. Because he was in his house and his personal difficulty was set to normal it disbanded our group and kicked up all out of the dungeon. He was not group leader either. It's a known bug. All of these things I have discussed I have reported and several of them I have gotten messages back from zos to say they have been investing fixes.

Blinx · September 2022

other (please elaborate)

Amottica wrote: »

Blinx wrote: »

imo if they used the cycle devoted to dungeons, I don't think many would care too much

and again, the amount of increased effort to work on bugs would be so negligible that it would be meaningless. It does not make sense to have many of the teams that create content sit around and do nothing or worse, lay them off because they do not have the skills to work in fixing such bugs. That is exactly what is being suggested here by the nature of the skills of the related team members.

do you work for ZoS? you have absolutely no idea whatsoever what they can accomplish in 3 months time.

just look at the disasters they managed to do in said time recently!

Dragonnord · September 2022

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boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

All of these things I have discussed I have reported and several of them I have gotten messages back from zos to say they have been investing fixes.

So ZOS said they are working on them and you complain? Every single game has and will always have bugs, the company already stated they will be fixed and you still complain?

I heard Solitaire and Minesweeper have no bugs. Maybe those work for you.

Amottica · September 2022

Blinx wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Blinx wrote: »

imo if they used the cycle devoted to dungeons, I don't think many would care too much

and again, the amount of increased effort to work on bugs would be so negligible that it would be meaningless. It does not make sense to have many of the teams that create content sit around and do nothing or worse, lay them off because they do not have the skills to work in fixing such bugs. That is exactly what is being suggested here by the nature of the skills of the related team members.

do you work for ZoS? you have absolutely no idea whatsoever what they can accomplish in 3 months time.

just look at the disasters they managed to do in said time recently!

Actually, yes I do have an idea without having to work for them. This is something that is widely known.

If you choose not to believe me then just take a look at the Zenimax career page. I expect you will find programmers as well as artists and designers and more. to which only programmers and maybe engineers if they differentiate will have the skills for working on the typical bugs. BTW, some of them can help with such tasks if they are not programmers but that is when the bug is relevant to their area such as the combat team. Then again an artist and a designer involved in world-building is hardly going to be helpful with most of this.