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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Stop the outrage: U35 combat changes are good*
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Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »The real casualties of update 35 are heavy attack builds, not weaving, which was for lower APM players.
Ground based DoT's aren't going to be worth using anymore and heavy attacks won't be really anything but a sustain option because every second you spend heavy attacking you're not using skills or weaving so it's a huge dps loss.
Not to mention the 40% nerf to healing. That's really going to hurt (literally).
you mean from HoT's right? That is going to be kinda brutal on my healer, just more combat prayer spam is I guess more "engaging gameplay"0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just curious...
at some point, if damage is less and it takes more hits to achieve the goal.....
doesn't Sustain become the bigger issue?
5 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭master_vanargand wrote: »It's good to extend the DoT time.
I hate staring at the timer icon.
If action is important, it should be simple to rotation.
I can't fathom why this keeps popping up.
It's not getting simpler. Not only were not all effects harmonized, they also only harmonized base duration, meaning passives will randomly extend a few skills but not others.
The end result is that timers are more over the place than before.
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BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
THIS. Analyzing in detail the CRITICAL ISSUES in Update 35.I will put a link here from someone who has addressed the big picture, how the changes harm the more moderate player and the real issues. I suggest reading through it but will warn that it is not a light read. It is well written, detailed, and most importantly, well thought out.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611505/why-the-changes-in-update-35-miss-the-mark-and-fail-to-fix-the-issues-that-it-seeks-to-address/p1
This is HOW A DEVELOPER should have analyzed the changes.
There now also is video to this great post for easier understanding:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArpuZKqDekc
To me it feels as if the GAME IS BACK TO BETA, so unstable the combat core has become.
Every 3 MONTHS WE HAVE TO RELEARN THE GAME and DUMP FORMER BUILDS AND SETS.
Update 35 is the final nail in the coffin. Some playstyles will be gone forever, especially DOT builds in PvP.
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Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »5. The world first guild to get vDreadsailReef trifecta all quit because it will no longer be POSSIBLE to do it. Its not a case of adapt and do it slower but IT WONT EVEN BE PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE anymore.
6. Noone will do last boss vRockgrove trifecta/hm because it wont be possible. At all.
7. Everyone does less dps including the casuals. Somehow they are convinced this is only a top dps nerf.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]
Exactley. Casuals will be pushed out and Top-Tier players will leave. This patch is just not good.
Exactly this.
The damage output is too low on multiple targets and the timers aren't equal due to passives currently.
The current live aoe dot damage is ca.1.5 times damage per second for 10 seconds. In order for the damage to be equal per second it would need to be approx. 3 times damage per 2 seconds for 20 seconds. Since the devs wanted to reduce damage output they decided for 2 times damage per 2 seconds for a reduction of ca.33% per sec output. This nerf is a bit too much.
If major dps adjustments like these go through to live servers than Vet and Vet HM dps requirements for the harder dungeons/trials along with the corresponding achievements should be adjusted in this patch to reflect these reductions in dps. otherwise, the low numbers of players attempting and completing this content will be reduced even further.
The devs could maybe consider reducing the damage more cautiously since it will impact ESO's population dramatically when the damage reductions seem too high for more casual and newer players.
Maybe the devs could consider changing the aoe dot reduction from 2 times the damage to 2.5 times the damage per 2 second tick for 20 seconds, which would approximately halve the reduction which is currently in the PTS.
Imho, the devs should first see how viable all content is, especially endgame vet, vet hm and their various achievements for all players on the live servers, not just for the small amount of players on the PTS. The PTS does not accurately represent the amount of new players and casuals attempting harder content in ESO. There are some casuals who occasionally like doing vet content and want it to still be an option.
If the reductions were changed, it would be a huge insightful advantage to the devs and players. They'd have more data to work with to determine if new players and casuals dps needs are also being met and establish if further reductions are needed at all without losing so much business.
Have fun in game
Edited by Arrodisia on July 20, 2022 10:45AM0 -
cptscotty✭✭✭✭Why does damage have to be so high? Damage is already ridiculously high for this game...I have never played a game that had damage so high it turned the MMO into a walking-simulator. Even walking simulators provided more of a challenge...this is just...broken.
So again...why does damage have to be so high?2 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭There is some end game content that does require high dps to complete since it's balanced differently. It's been mentioned multiple times in this and other threads.
The majority of players never reach high dps. Generally nerfing the dps leads to even less players reaching adequate numbers to complete more difficult content and the casual/newer players will also seee less progress during their sessions. Since time to kill will slow all aspects of leveling in general. The later champ points are already progressing too slowly and have little benefit to gameplay for the time invested.
Edited by Arrodisia on July 20, 2022 11:00AM9 -
The_Dude✭✭✭especially on consoles without any mods!Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »OP Quote: The current DPS ceiling goes upto 140k+
The average player comes nowhere close to that.
4 -
Mackinsar✭✭✭The nerf to light and heavy attacks will effectively destroy werewolves.
Solution: werewolf light and heavy attacks remain unaffected. Otherwise ZOS is going to destroy werewolves completely.
I can’t imagine why ZOS is trying to run off a huge portion of the player base with the incredibly stupid nerfs in U35.1 -
Mackinsar✭✭✭FYI, some of my guildies have ALREADY left. They went to New World, which has promised to make no major changes like this.3
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Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why does damage have to be so high? Damage is already ridiculously high for this game...I have never played a game that had damage so high it turned the MMO into a walking-simulator. Even walking simulators provided more of a challenge...this is just...broken.
So again...why does damage have to be so high?
I dont think that the damage in itself is the issue. Yes, its high. They also made the requirement for it to be high while they left the rest a walking simulator.
If you have enough damage for some of the HMs, like RG, then you have enough to trivialize other content. And its a lot of content, even other veteran content. Once you have that much damage you can skip mechanics in many vet DLC dungeons and some older trials.
The problem with this patch is that it doesnt address how it became this way in the first place. Its isnt making a smoother transition for players that want to get into veteran content. It isnt really closing the gap, especially where light attacks are concerned. Its just a nerf for the sake of nerfing.
If they wanted to nerf damage, which personally Im not against, Id want to see a road map. A clear one. I want to know that this madness is going to end and more importantly I want to know thats its going to end with a game that I still enjoy playing.
What we got is a promise of even more changes to come. Given how exhausting this is already, I feel like ZOS either underestimates how much fatigue this is causing or doesnt care. In either case I dont think thats good.
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JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭Current situation:
Current players DPS=140k
You need 120k DPS to pass.
Hmmm player do too much damage !
Nerf/nerf/nerf -> now they have 110k, why are not they happy ?
And i am always not happy if some one steal some thing from me, as example my DPS
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LordDragonMara✭✭✭Yeah sure, the changes are wonderful. I'm so, so, so happy. Let me also show you a preview how the combat will look after U36 or so:
https://youtu.be/u67TnO5IEJE?t=135
Watch from 2:15 onwards for the combat part.
This going to be great for people that suffer from insomnia. Even they will be able to fall asleep.
Edited by LordDragonMara on July 20, 2022 3:25PM2 -
cptscotty✭✭✭✭Why not just request a rework of newer content to require less dps and instead better gear? Why keep asking for more DPS which just ruins the beginner experience and makes it hard to keep new players...which then of course makes it hard to find players for trials? or makes the devs increase timers on abilities because why even bother pressing them if a spammable is easier and the only thing really needed?
ESO is capped on the 160 gear making it a static marker for which the gap between that marker and new content keeps getting widening. What do people think would happen if they keep going down this road? Its pretty obvious at some point you will hit a roadblock where the newer content is too difficult for the majority, the beginner content will be too easy where you start questioning why are you even using more than 1-2 abilities and so they will have to mess with them to fix that, and that because of it there will be less new people to fill the void when people eventually move on with their lives and thus create less players looking for trials.0 -
Rescue78✭✭✭
I highly doubt anyone threatening to leave ESO will actually leave. Just saying, threatening to quit MMOs is as old as MMOs themselves.
I've been here since launch so I've seen it all with this game. The changes they make week 1 are 99% of what gets pushed out on the patch. We all know that. We also know they don't listen to feedback from the players. So thanks to those patch notes and Rich's tweet, I've already canceled my ESO+. I have no problem walking away from this game if this is how they're going to be.5 -
JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭Why not just request a rework of newer content to require less dps and instead better gear? Why keep asking for more DPS which just ruins the beginner experience and makes it hard to keep new players...which then of course makes it hard to find players for trials? or makes the devs increase timers on abilities because why even bother pressing them if a spammable is easier and the only thing really needed?
ESO is capped on the 160 gear making it a static marker for which the gap between that marker and new content keeps getting widening. What do people think would happen if they keep going down this road? Its pretty obvious at some point you will hit a roadblock where the newer content is too difficult for the majority, the beginner content will be too easy where you start questioning why are you even using more than 1-2 abilities and so they will have to mess with them to fix that, and that because of it there will be less new people to fill the void when people eventually move on with their lives and thus create less players looking for trials.
It can be made different ways. But as example if they even change trials and than nerf DPS it will not be possible to pass again ? ===)
And that is what they do for last 3 years. It is not understandable by normal human logick already )Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on July 20, 2022 6:05PM1 -
JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭
I highly doubt anyone threatening to leave ESO will actually leave. Just saying, threatening to quit MMOs is as old as MMOs themselves.
I've been here since launch so I've seen it all with this game. The changes they make week 1 are 99% of what gets pushed out on the patch. We all know that. We also know they don't listen to feedback from the players. So thanks to those patch notes and Rich's tweet, I've already canceled my ESO+. I have no problem walking away from this game if this is how they're going to be.
If to start to spam it to all their PMs 24*7 they do )))0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've been here since launch so I've seen it all with this game. The changes they make week 1 are 99% of what gets pushed out on the patch. We all know that. We also know they don't listen to feedback from the players. So thanks to those patch notes and Rich's tweet, I've already canceled my ESO+. I have no problem walking away from this game if this is how they're going to be.
Hey I walked away September 2019 because of the ridiculous DoT buff/nerf debacle and didn't return until the very end of May 2022.
There is a decent chance I'll do it again if they don't make major changes to this PTS patch. The game is finally accessible to me on a level I'm happy with. It's fun right now as it is, but I'll leave for another 2 1/2 years if they screw it all up for me again.5 -
JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »I've been here since launch so I've seen it all with this game. The changes they make week 1 are 99% of what gets pushed out on the patch. We all know that. We also know they don't listen to feedback from the players. So thanks to those patch notes and Rich's tweet, I've already canceled my ESO+. I have no problem walking away from this game if this is how they're going to be.
Hey I walked away September 2019 because of the ridiculous DoT buff/nerf debacle and didn't return until the very end of May 2022.
There is a decent chance I'll do it again if they don't make major changes to this PTS patch. The game is finally accessible to me on a level I'm happy with. It's fun right now as it is, but I'll leave for another 2 1/2 years if they screw it all up for me again.
From this changes it was already clear seen that they do not understand what they are doing. I hope they learn for 3 year. But ... . Even target dummy = broken.
So task DPS = damage/time is hard thing to do ... i do not understand after that how do servers working ??? (how was not they broken ))))Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on July 20, 2022 6:17PM0 -
JustAGoodPlayer✭✭✭✭LordDragonMara wrote: »Yeah sure, the changes are wonderful. I'm so, so, so happy. Let me also show you a preview how the combat will look after U36 or so:
Watch from 2:15 onwards for the combat part.
This going to be great for people that suffer from insomnia. Even they will be able to fall asleep.
You do not believe me ))) When i try to play ff - yes graphick is fine / good music - but it is so slow ... that after i play 1-2 hours i start sleap even in dunguans ))) and i can do nothing )))
This example of combat looks exactly the same )Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on July 20, 2022 6:21PM1 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why not just request a rework of newer content to require less dps and instead better gear? Why keep asking for more DPS which just ruins the beginner experience and makes it hard to keep new players...which then of course makes it hard to find players for trials? or makes the devs increase timers on abilities because why even bother pressing them if a spammable is easier and the only thing really needed?
ESO is capped on the 160 gear making it a static marker for which the gap between that marker and new content keeps getting widening. What do people think would happen if they keep going down this road? Its pretty obvious at some point you will hit a roadblock where the newer content is too difficult for the majority, the beginner content will be too easy where you start questioning why are you even using more than 1-2 abilities and so they will have to mess with them to fix that, and that because of it there will be less new people to fill the void when people eventually move on with their lives and thus create less players looking for trials.
Im slightly confused by that question. Are you asking why we shouldn't ask for lower DPS requirements and ask for better gear to compensate?
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siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭especially on consoles without any mods!Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »OP Quote: The current DPS ceiling goes upto 140k+
The average player comes nowhere close to that.
Yes yes, basically on PC addons parse. Players just do housing."Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.0 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why not just request a rework of newer content to require less dps and instead better gear? Why keep asking for more DPS which just ruins the beginner experience and makes it hard to keep new players...which then of course makes it hard to find players for trials? or makes the devs increase timers on abilities because why even bother pressing them if a spammable is easier and the only thing really needed?
ESO is capped on the 160 gear making it a static marker for which the gap between that marker and new content keeps getting widening. What do people think would happen if they keep going down this road? Its pretty obvious at some point you will hit a roadblock where the newer content is too difficult for the majority, the beginner content will be too easy where you start questioning why are you even using more than 1-2 abilities and so they will have to mess with them to fix that, and that because of it there will be less new people to fill the void when people eventually move on with their lives and thus create less players looking for trials.
People aren't asking for more DPS.
People are asking them not to just blanket nerf DPS and thus locking people out of content without actually addressing the problem, in particular with how the blanket DPS nerf affects the floor even more than the ceiling.7 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭U35 = Dead game 100%.
Major guilds already leaving, and its not just solely because of U35, but its the end result. The game has been dying since Greymoore with lack of real actual content in chapters.7 -
LordDragonMara✭✭✭JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »LordDragonMara wrote: »Yeah sure, the changes are wonderful. I'm so, so, so happy. Let me also show you a preview how the combat will look after U36 or so:
Watch from 2:15 onwards for the combat part.
This going to be great for people that suffer from insomnia. Even they will be able to fall asleep.
You do not believe me ))) When i try to play ff - yes graphick is fine / good music - but it is so slow ... that after i play 1-2 hours i start sleap even in dunguans ))) and i can do nothing )))
This example of combat looks exactly the same )
I definitely believe you. They are trying to turn ESO in potato boring fest.
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Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »I've been here since launch so I've seen it all with this game. The changes they make week 1 are 99% of what gets pushed out on the patch. We all know that. We also know they don't listen to feedback from the players. So thanks to those patch notes and Rich's tweet, I've already canceled my ESO+. I have no problem walking away from this game if this is how they're going to be.
Hey I walked away September 2019 because of the ridiculous DoT buff/nerf debacle and didn't return until the very end of May 2022.
There is a decent chance I'll do it again if they don't make major changes to this PTS patch. The game is finally accessible to me on a level I'm happy with. It's fun right now as it is, but I'll leave for another 2 1/2 years if they screw it all up for me again.
Same here, I played from closed beta-September 2019, then didn't return until December 2021 and was really enjoying the game again until U35. It sucks to be back in the mindset of "aw *** here we go again" (insert GTA meme).4 -
BronzeCaiman✭✭✭I been saying it for a long time, but the game is too hard, catering to the top players is not healthy for the game, that´s why a 20% average nerf off the top players is going to break veteran hardmode trials and make it impossible. No matter what ZoS does, the elitists will complete the content in record time compared to 99.9% of the playerbase, even on PTS people can Trifecta.
Chasing the dragon is silly and I am actually glad most of the endgame community is leaving, maybe more of the game will become casual friendly like 95% of the game. If you are still here because of sunk cost fallacy then you are not enjoying the game, you are lying to yourself.
All we really need now is more visibility on mechanics and a little more time to react to them. If you are not stuck in a bubble with your friends you would know what the average player is like. Hell yesterday I did Veteran Dragonstar Arena with randoms, one of our DDs had 40k life while I did all the DPS and mechanics myself. I took 4 hours and my wife had to come in at the end when he left because we could not finish the last boss.
The irony? The 40k life DD, had the most CP of anyone in the group.0
