Ravenwatch PC NA solution... Midyear Mayhem...

deleted221105-001306 · July 2022

gariondavey wrote: »

Sorry @Nordslord but only the faction lock is a decent idea. The reducing players in stages is not a good idea.
Scoreboard multipliers is 100 percent the way to deal with this. I am not the first to suggest this. I've seen @Qrähe say very similar things over the years, among others.
The reality is this would be really easy fix for zos. Why it hasn't been done already - I have no idea.

so if it wasnt locked for years im just wasting my breath

ArdenLightBringer · July 2022

At the end of the day population imbalance is a social issue, it is nobody's fault that Queen Ayrenn is in every way superior to the other alliance leaders.

deleted221105-001306 · July 2022

"yea I totally agree with your point. The big problem is I mentioned also is the zerg mentality. Some of the players on AD thruly believe they are so strong as one as if they hit someone 3v1 or more. When they fight u alone and they wake up from the delusion they send hatefull pms....";
The zergs just shouldnt be allowed because it mess with those people heads so they become toxic or run away mode and wait for 15 more so I can't fight.... like the 30 players for resource take as on previous screenshot : I

I don't mind being outnumbered but not 15v1. It is no fun at all.

[snip]

I don't send pms to people. I am just playing the game.

[Edited for Naming and Shaming]
Edit naming and shaming means you reported that player who sent me hateful pms from screenshots??? Because I see attachments are removed

ArdenLightBringer · July 2022

Nordslord wrote: »

"yea I totally agree with your point. The big problem is I mentioned also is the zerg mentality. Some of the players on AD thruly believe they are so strong as one as if they hit someone 3v1 or more. When they fight u alone and they wake up from the delusion they send hatefull pms....";
The zergs just shouldnt be allowed because it mess with those people heads so they become toxic or run away mode and wait for 15 more so I can't fight.... like the 30 players for resource take as on previous screenshot : I

I don't mind being outnumbered but not 15v1. It is no fun at all.

[snip]

I don't send pms to people. I am just playing the game.

[Edited for Naming and Shaming]

I do not think it is a good idea for ZoS to implement policy or mechanics to limit player behavior so severely that they are not able to stack up 15 people on a resources if they choose to. I understand what is being said about being outnumbered severely but in an open world PvP map most of the time fights are not going to be against equal numbers. I think it is a terrible idea to try to gut group play entirely because sometimes they will get in a situation to pile on a solo player that is at the objective they go to. Cryo has never been a area where 1 person should have an equal fight no matter the situation they are in.

Didgerion · July 2022

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

When it comes down to it a well coordinated group will always be able to run over midyear pug groups without issue, even if the pug group is much larger(for the most part). I ran a pug group yesterday for about 4 hours and helped a lot of people with set recommendations and basic tips so they could stop getting farmed.
In that time a friend also came on and did the same, eventually the few of us had 3 groups we were leading and pushing the map. With simple instructions and tips within a few hours they went from floor matts to being able to hold their own for a respectable amount of time.
If anyone is unhappy about the map id recommend trying something similar, of course during peak hour you will prob still get ran over but getting small wins gives groups like that confidence and the desire to come back.

Hopefully this can be helpful in some way to everyone, happy hunting.

Yep that's how 3 coordinated groups looks like:

Usually it starts like this:

Then it becomes this:

And the final result:

Personally I like being outnumbered, see I'm an experienced PvP player that likes the 1vX challenge. More enemies usually means more challenges available to me.

But I doubt everyone feels this way.

ArdenLightBringer · July 2022

Didgerion wrote: »

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

When it comes down to it a well coordinated group will always be able to run over midyear pug groups without issue, even if the pug group is much larger(for the most part). I ran a pug group yesterday for about 4 hours and helped a lot of people with set recommendations and basic tips so they could stop getting farmed.
In that time a friend also came on and did the same, eventually the few of us had 3 groups we were leading and pushing the map. With simple instructions and tips within a few hours they went from floor matts to being able to hold their own for a respectable amount of time.
If anyone is unhappy about the map id recommend trying something similar, of course during peak hour you will prob still get ran over but getting small wins gives groups like that confidence and the desire to come back.

Hopefully this can be helpful in some way to everyone, happy hunting.

Yep that's how 3 coordinated groups looks like:

Usually it starts like this:

Then it becomes this:

And the final result:

Personally I like being outnumbered, see I'm an experienced PvP player that likes the 1vX challenge. More enemies usually means more challenges available to me.

But I doubt everyone feels this way.

I personally would love to see more DC and EP all day, but i just do not see how most of these proposed changes would fix that in any way. Changing scoring, increasing rewards, and incentivizing actually fighting is the only way help the problem. Trying to gate the ability to play a campaign based on the play habits of players on other factions is something that would be very problematic in my view though.

Didgerion · August 2022

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

When it comes down to it a well coordinated group will always be able to run over midyear pug groups without issue, even if the pug group is much larger(for the most part). I ran a pug group yesterday for about 4 hours and helped a lot of people with set recommendations and basic tips so they could stop getting farmed.
In that time a friend also came on and did the same, eventually the few of us had 3 groups we were leading and pushing the map. With simple instructions and tips within a few hours they went from floor matts to being able to hold their own for a respectable amount of time.
If anyone is unhappy about the map id recommend trying something similar, of course during peak hour you will prob still get ran over but getting small wins gives groups like that confidence and the desire to come back.

Hopefully this can be helpful in some way to everyone, happy hunting.

Yep that's how 3 coordinated groups looks like:

Usually it starts like this:

Then it becomes this:

And the final result:

Personally I like being outnumbered, see I'm an experienced PvP player that likes the 1vX challenge. More enemies usually means more challenges available to me.

But I doubt everyone feels this way.

I personally would love to see more DC and EP all day, but i just do not see how most of these proposed changes would fix that in any way. Changing scoring, increasing rewards, and incentivizing actually fighting is the only way help the problem. Trying to gate the ability to play a campaign based on the play habits of players on other factions is something that would be very problematic in my view though.

All I tried to show is that as soon as one faction is taking traction the other two log out. It is happening outside of the event too.

It is not the players fault, Cyrodiil is slightly outdated and needs a revamp.

gariondavey · August 2022

Didgerion wrote: »

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

When it comes down to it a well coordinated group will always be able to run over midyear pug groups without issue, even if the pug group is much larger(for the most part). I ran a pug group yesterday for about 4 hours and helped a lot of people with set recommendations and basic tips so they could stop getting farmed.
In that time a friend also came on and did the same, eventually the few of us had 3 groups we were leading and pushing the map. With simple instructions and tips within a few hours they went from floor matts to being able to hold their own for a respectable amount of time.
If anyone is unhappy about the map id recommend trying something similar, of course during peak hour you will prob still get ran over but getting small wins gives groups like that confidence and the desire to come back.

Hopefully this can be helpful in some way to everyone, happy hunting.

Yep that's how 3 coordinated groups looks like:

Usually it starts like this:

Then it becomes this:

And the final result:

Personally I like being outnumbered, see I'm an experienced PvP player that likes the 1vX challenge. More enemies usually means more challenges available to me.

But I doubt everyone feels this way.

I personally would love to see more DC and EP all day, but i just do not see how most of these proposed changes would fix that in any way. Changing scoring, increasing rewards, and incentivizing actually fighting is the only way help the problem. Trying to gate the ability to play a campaign based on the play habits of players on other factions is something that would be very problematic in my view though.

All I tried to show is that as soon as one faction is taking traction the other two log out. It is happening outside of the event too.

It is not the players fault, Cyrodiil is slightly outdated and needs a revamp.

The thing is, a ton of players on AD will stay on even if they are just holding scrolls/tri-keeps. They don't mind losing some fights...they just want fights. I haven't observed that mentality from EP or DC guilds for the most part.

acastanza_ESO · August 2022

The current state of Ravenwatch is just, not okay. It isn't fun to control the entire map for 18 consecutive hours with overwhelming force.

A faction lock would definitely help prevent fair-weather allies from just switching to whatever faction is winning, but the population problem is a self-reinforcing negative spiral.

If scaling population caps were to be applied, an Idea I don't entirely object to, it would need to be done really carefully.
Least populated faction's numbers plus, say 25% as the cap, but I would also exempt homed players from the queue, and only allow players to change their homed campaign once during a campaign cycle. This would prevent established groups from being locked out by people logging into alts to lock out the other factions. And it would give the less populated factions a chance to still get pugs in.

I know this still isn't going to be a popular idea, but we have to try something, anything, telling EP and DC to just "recruit and organize more" clearly isn't working. If we stomp them with overwhelming force before they can so much as take an outpost no amount of organizing is going to help, the pugs they pick up are just going to go back to the gate and log off.

Don't get me wrong, DC and EP can clearly pull numbers sometimes, Saturday night proves that, but AD seems able to do it every night. Those nights when all factions are poplocked and playing their hardest are incredible for everyone, but they're not the norm, how can we work towards making them the norm if we seem unwilling to try anything?

I don't want proc sets in Raven, I like playing, and being good at, my class, not crutching on some overpowered proc where whoever gets the RNG first wins. See the conversations by the PVErs in light of this new PTS where (contrary to ZOS's seeming opinion) they're realizing that the actual power creep in the game is coming from OP Procs. But it's reaching the point where I might actual welcome Plaguebreak into Ravenwatch (the new proposed adjustments pending) just to give the other side any counterplay that doesn't involve having to coordinate two full faction stacks.

DutchieWoW · August 2022

.

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

The current state of Ravenwatch is just, not okay. It isn't fun to control the entire map for 18 consecutive hours with overwhelming force.

Don't get me wrong, DC and EP can clearly pull numbers sometimes, Saturday night proves that, but AD seems able to do it every night. Those nights when all factions are poplocked and playing their hardest are incredible for everyone, but they're not the norm

That's what I'm seeing. During EST primetime AD was just one large zerg of randoms darn near gating EP and DC. As a scrub, I'm all about riding waves but this wasn't fun. No amount of AP is worth dunking on a handful of people. I logged off.

These wildly fluctuating disparities in faction population lead to an exceptionally unhealthy campaign. It is so rare to see even numbers competing against each other. Ultimately I just don't think there's enough people especially during normal periods.

All of my characters are AD. I guess I'll change faction but that just solves my problem. In no way does that make for a healthier campaign overall in the long term.

deleted221105-001306 · August 2022

gariondavey wrote: »

The thing is, a ton of players on AD will stay on even if they are just holding scrolls/tri-keeps. They don't mind losing some fights...they just want fights. I haven't observed that mentality from EP or DC guilds for the most part.

Man plox : D

https://youtu.be/EG9Gr3hpu8s

There is difference between fight and just feeding ap to 40 people zerg.

YandereGirlfriend · August 2022

@acastanza_ESO Thank you for your very thoughtful assessment of the situation. I quite respect it.

This is more for ZOS to consider, but if we are desiring to improve the competitive balance of campaigns (from a fight perspective; I'm agnostic about scoring), we really also need to reexamine the destructive "rich get richer" design philosophy of the Scroll and Emperor bonuses. These design choices tangibly punish the sides with lower population and directly facilitate the transfer of players over to the winning faction.

In a healthier system, the combat bonuses would be reversed and instead provide buffs to the underpopulated factions. Looking for a moment at the Emperor bonus: it provides ~2k HP to every player of that faction. This clearly scales with total faction population, as a faction with 12 players will receive only ~24k worth of additional HP whereas a faction locked at 80 will receive ~160k. (That's why nobody really bothers to defend their Emperor title while greatly outnumbered in Raven - because those bonuses simply aren't meaningful to your faction when you number only 10 or 12.)

That HP bonus is further increased by factors such as the Defensive Scroll II bonus of 5% flat mitigation, which means that the Effective Health gain from just these two buffs to a pop-locked side is closer to ~170k. (In reality, the total Effective Health gain for a locked faction will rise into the millions as it will be further scaled by every players' existing mitigation sources [e.g. Battle Spirit, Armor, vamp, Major Protection, etc.], which gives even greater incentive to build tanky on the numerically superior side. At a certain point, a critical mass of raw Effective HP is achieved as a faction such that it is impossible for an outnumbered side to clear it all in a realistic amount of time given the restrictions of the campaign (e.g. No-CP, No-Proc). To compound the problem, every opposing player will have their Effective Health reduced by ~5% if they are on the wrong side of the Offensive Scroll II bonus, which they likely will be given the above scenario.

The TLDR; of this is simply to illustrate that the very structure of these combat bonuses encourages the bandwagon effect and faction-stacking. More corrosively, they make life even more difficult for the outnumbered sides than it already is. Maybe this made sense at some point in the game's history but it definitely does not make sense now, especially in Ravenwatch with our unhealthy population dynamics.

A quick example of a healthier way to implement the Emperor HP bonus would be to have it provide something like 100 HP for every player below the current highest-populated faction that your side is: so if you're fighting 12 to 50 your HP is increased by (50 - 12) * 100 = 3800 HP. This would have value to an outnumbered side while providing no bonus whatsoever if held by the current population leader, resulting in much better combat balance. I'm sure that something similar for the Scroll bonuses (or lack thereof) could be worked out as well.

gariondavey wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

When it comes down to it a well coordinated group will always be able to run over midyear pug groups without issue, even if the pug group is much larger(for the most part). I ran a pug group yesterday for about 4 hours and helped a lot of people with set recommendations and basic tips so they could stop getting farmed.
In that time a friend also came on and did the same, eventually the few of us had 3 groups we were leading and pushing the map. With simple instructions and tips within a few hours they went from floor matts to being able to hold their own for a respectable amount of time.
If anyone is unhappy about the map id recommend trying something similar, of course during peak hour you will prob still get ran over but getting small wins gives groups like that confidence and the desire to come back.

Hopefully this can be helpful in some way to everyone, happy hunting.

Yep that's how 3 coordinated groups looks like:

Usually it starts like this:

Then it becomes this:

And the final result:

Personally I like being outnumbered, see I'm an experienced PvP player that likes the 1vX challenge. More enemies usually means more challenges available to me.

But I doubt everyone feels this way.

I personally would love to see more DC and EP all day, but i just do not see how most of these proposed changes would fix that in any way. Changing scoring, increasing rewards, and incentivizing actually fighting is the only way help the problem. Trying to gate the ability to play a campaign based on the play habits of players on other factions is something that would be very problematic in my view though.

All I tried to show is that as soon as one faction is taking traction the other two log out. It is happening outside of the event too.

It is not the players fault, Cyrodiil is slightly outdated and needs a revamp.

The thing is, a ton of players on AD will stay on even if they are just holding scrolls/tri-keeps. They don't mind losing some fights...they just want fights. I haven't observed that mentality from EP or DC guilds for the most part.

Enough AD will stay on the map to pop-lock their faction even if they own every Scroll, every Keep, every town, and every resource - even while the other factions are at 1 bar - as this was literally the situation last night at 10PM PST.

Any Raven player also knows what's going to happen if a group tries to take back, say, the Mine at their nearest Tri-Keep - they are going to get swarmed by those same 60 AD and then they will immediately port out to a different campaign. Because who wants to put up with that night after night and campaign after campaign? The answer is: a dwindling number of players.

This Midyear Mayhem is looking like the last hurrah for Raven. Guilds are leaving after this campaign.

gameswithaspoon · August 2022

On Thursday, at the start of the campaign, the number of pugs logging in to each faction was reasonably equal. Slightly in EP's favor, as they were and still are First in the campaign and held almost everything at the start of Mayhem.

And pugs, they do like winners.

For Thursday, Friday and Saturday, the officers of IOTE took shifts in picking up our pugs, and teaching them how to have a successful and fun Mayhem Event. How to organize, how to use auto-invites, how to siege and how to cooperate between groups.

Because this is their event, not ours. Not yours. And now they are running around having a merry old time.

These are the two weeks, twice a year, when the gates of Cyrodiil should be thrown wide open and the warmest possible welcome should be given to anyone willing to give PVP a try.

Saturday morning, when IOTE logged on to 3 bars of DC and one bar of AD, a solid blue map- a DC emp- and DC with all six scrolls, what did we do then? Two of us started pug groups and got to work. And that was the last time we had to organize them.

Now they are starting their own groups, zone leadership has arisen among them, they cooperate, and they are civil to each other. And they do loose fights- but they weren't taught to give up.

(EP did incredibly well holding Chalman last night for 50 minutes against the AD pug groups. See, you can win!!)

Granted, IOTE probably has more trained raid leaders than all of the EP and DC Ravenwatch guilds combined. I have six years of experience, most of it breaking gate camps and winning hour long de-emps. I do understand the disparity there.

And yet I rarely participate in Forum discussions because I don't sense any desire on the part of EP or DC in Ravenwatch to fix what they have done to their own factions themselves. ZOS can't fix this for you. Expecting them to alter populations to make it easier for you to win fights is like expecting them to halve the damage of vet level Trials so more people can get Planesbreaker.

For the weeks leading up to Mayhem, my Officers and I kept receiving veiled threats about.... well.... something. Never once did anyone ask, hey AD over there, you guys seem to have your stuff in order and you do well with your pugs, have any suggestions for us or any tips?

And it is painful watching your factions tear themselves apart, and not have a successful Mayhem.

But the first step is admitting you have a problem. And the second one is asking for help.

Spoon.

YandereGirlfriend · August 2022

Nobody expects the AD in Ravenwatch to change - that's why players and guilds from the other factions are voting with their feet.

It is not exactly a hot take to predict that the EP and DC will probably fail to reach two bars even during prime time in the coming days. The guilds aren't going in (because it's always Groundhog Day in Raven) and the new players that are just trying to get their Event Tickets in peace will have realized by that point that it is simply less of a hassle to do it somewhere else.

I do not take any joy in stating it, but when the event ends Raven is likely in for a long stretch of depopulated 3-1-1 until the allure of swarming down individual groups of 3 and 4 at resources begins to diminish (if it ever does, I suppose) and population begins to redistribute itself. Because there is no great influx of new players coming to save the day for the other sides. AD will simply have to choose for themselves whether or not they want to be the masters of an empty campaign.

A small number of AD can see the slow-motion tragedy unfolding but they are seemingly not in a position to do anything about it. Which is a pity for everyone involved.

Cynical_Alchemist · August 2022

Spoon, you wrote a lot of text to essentially say ‘git gud’ XD

The health of Raven discussions on the forum won’t change anything.

The most organised faction with the highest average server population will win the campaign.

It’s interesting to see your PUG strategy written out like that. It’s easier to direct a faction when your officers are the PUG crowns. Nice work. It’s great for educating and dominating.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail · August 2022

Having formerly belonged to a guild called Nocturnal on the DC side, the consistent thing we found was not the opposition, but the roll over and die attitude of our own, and as well for me - zero representation of other late night / OCE players.

There were plenty of times EP would call in reinforcements and absolutely wipe us, actually, at the time there was a Red group who were our primary competitors and at least we had someone to fight, and would often lose to

But it highlighted how much that when no one else was on the map, it just led to you being 'focussed' and we all eventually gave up.

When I returned to the game most recently, I rerolled everything to be AD only, so as never chase FOTM or be tempted to endlessly reroll to play on other factions.

I can comment that the solid group in AD are actually lovely people, having been guilded for a short while, and are there purely for the fights.

What I'm trying to say is although I don't PVP anymore, that coming from another faction it was nice to see a group in action and an ethic to their approach that I did not witness one One of the other sides, at least.

You can't blame them for having their S**** together and the other two being absolute no shows.

Whitestrakes shows that with enough incentive, you can absolutely get high participation to flesh out multiple campaigns.

ArdenLightBringer · August 2022

Cynical_Alchemist wrote: »

Spoon, you wrote a lot of text to essentially say ‘git gud’ XD

The health of Raven discussions on the forum won’t change anything.

The most organised faction with the highest average server population will win the campaign.

It’s interesting to see your PUG strategy written out like that. It’s easier to direct a faction when your officers are the PUG crowns. Nice work. It’s great for educating and dominating.

Is it a bad thing to have a good strategy that works and leads to success?
I don't see why a small group couldn't all start PUG groups and coordinate them together, unless I am missing something it doesn't seem like a complicated idea.
I do understand that in primetime for NA that probably wouldn't be enough to a break through against more experienced players, 18 of the other hours during the day I am sure it would lead to some success.

Cynical_Alchemist · August 2022

ArdenLightBringer wrote: »

Is it a bad thing to have a good strategy that works and leads to success?
I don't see why a small group couldn't all start PUG groups and coordinate them together, unless I am missing something it doesn't seem like a complicated idea.
I do understand that in primetime for NA that probably wouldn't be enough to a break through against more experienced players, 18 of the other hours during the day I am sure it would lead to some success.

I didn’t say it was a bad thing - it’s very effective. And there I thought I was giving a compliment

As for adopting the approach, not everyone can or wants to be a PUG whisperer. And not every faction will have enough people willing to be led like that.

It’s not an AD thing (or an EP or DC thing). The other campaigns don’t run like Raven, but that’s mainly due to different campaign population density during the 24 hours of the day.

deleted221105-001306 · August 2022

gameswithaspoon wrote: »

On Thursday, at the start of the campaign, the number of pugs logging in to each faction was reasonably equal. Slightly in EP's favor, as they were and still are First in the campaign and held almost everything at the start of Mayhem.

And pugs, they do like winners.

For Thursday, Friday and Saturday, the officers of IOTE took shifts in picking up our pugs, and teaching them how to have a successful and fun Mayhem Event. How to organize, how to use auto-invites, how to siege and how to cooperate between groups.

Because this is their event, not ours. Not yours. And now they are running around having a merry old time.

These are the two weeks, twice a year, when the gates of Cyrodiil should be thrown wide open and the warmest possible welcome should be given to anyone willing to give PVP a try.

Saturday morning, when IOTE logged on to 3 bars of DC and one bar of AD, a solid blue map- a DC emp- and DC with all six scrolls, what did we do then? Two of us started pug groups and got to work. And that was the last time we had to organize them.

Now they are starting their own groups, zone leadership has arisen among them, they cooperate, and they are civil to each other. And they do loose fights- but they weren't taught to give up.

(EP did incredibly well holding Chalman last night for 50 minutes against the AD pug groups. See, you can win!!)

Granted, IOTE probably has more trained raid leaders than all of the EP and DC Ravenwatch guilds combined. I have six years of experience, most of it breaking gate camps and winning hour long de-emps. I do understand the disparity there.

And yet I rarely participate in Forum discussions because I don't sense any desire on the part of EP or DC in Ravenwatch to fix what they have done to their own factions themselves. ZOS can't fix this for you. Expecting them to alter populations to make it easier for you to win fights is like expecting them to halve the damage of vet level Trials so more people can get Planesbreaker.

For the weeks leading up to Mayhem, my Officers and I kept receiving veiled threats about.... well.... something. Never once did anyone ask, hey AD over there, you guys seem to have your stuff in order and you do well with your pugs, have any suggestions for us or any tips?

And it is painful watching your factions tear themselves apart, and not have a successful Mayhem.

But the first step is admitting you have a problem. And the second one is asking for help.

Spoon.

You guys point is valid as I said befroe. You and Arden. Although there is a problem ZOS should fix. It is why I came to forum in the first place. Just to see the reaction. And I see your reaction. Not to cry about anything nor create drama. Although where is the place for solo players that also pay for the subscription? Im in Ravenwatch from 2-3 months only. I dont know about your 6 years campaign. I just stated what I observed. I really tried to push EP this month to first place and I suceeeded nontheless your overwhelming raids at prime time. Until we were in equal numbers we were winning on map. I brought some players to EP that I dueled and they changed faction due to respect. Map was only red at the start of event because me and 4 others did it. Hence a few pugs joined. If we dont take action no one does. It is really tiring. I have real life work and you make me work in the game....It is no fun. There are no stable guilds only few friends that like each other. Only event for EP I know of it happens at wednesday once a week. Rest of the week is empty. So we could use a revamp or maybe another map that would be suited also for solo players or smaller numbers. Maybe don't include my idea to Ravenwatch but maybe just make entirely new campaign with players joining in stages and alliance lock. I guarantee you me and my friends are gone from Ravenwatch 1st day such map starts.

P.S. There are players tho who spread toxic agenda about me and my guild only to create drama and event talk bullcrap that my guild is responsible for gating AD when all players for my guild that play in Ravenwatch I found on zone chat in Raven and teamed up with them. Spent time with them. My guild does not play pvp. So I know first hand how toxic and rotten EP is right now. If they are bad players they will just use zone chat to feel better. Also this player/s only kept emperor to have it but in fight with AD they just die or is in another keep than AD swarm.

We can organise but as I said few times previously and few others seem to share my opinion. EP has 20 pugs AD has 60. Every resource getting swarmed with 20 + AD. Any action on the map and the swarm is there. As long as me and a few others dont mind the fight the pugs leave after 2 deaths. They dont understand what is going on. They just came here for the event and got bullied right away starting from the first day.

deleted221105-001306 · August 2022

We will not play now so EP can enjoy low pop to the rest of the event on 2nd or 3rd place. Have fun.

Mega_Nova · August 2022

Ive already told some people this, but come fall/winter im going to start an EP Pug guild and attempt to try to rebuild numbers on our side. Summer time I just dont have the time. I play about 3 prime time nights a week for 3 hours a piece as is.

Hopefully this will eventually create some new leaders and people will start their own groups based on who they meet.

As for Queen Ayrenn.... god rest her soul.

Mega_Nova · August 2022

The other thing I want to mention is some of us, myself included, play between DC and EP to help fill groups on both sides. There are nights where I can only muster 8 people and some folks from TM will pop on in and play with us.

You can say this is a bad thing but Id encourage anyone who wants to try being on a different faction to reach out. I dont mind if you are still all AD or nothing in mentality. However you may find a new "friendship" with someone by just popping into the other side and chatting.

@Kartalin and I use to be rivals. Now we play together and have a great time.

I understand the faction loyalty mindset as I use to have the same, however its been more enjoyable to meet and play with people you once considered an enemy. You also may learn something.

gameswithaspoon · August 2022

Nordslord wrote: »

....

You guys point is valid as I said before. You and Arden. Although there is a problem ZOS should fix. It is why I came to forum in the first place. Just to see the reaction. And I see your reaction. Not to cry about anything nor create drama. Although where is the place for solo players that also pay for the subscription? I'm in Ravenwatch from 2-3 months only. I don't know about your 6 years campaign. I just stated what I observed. I really tried to push EP this month to first place and I succeeded nonetheless your overwhelming raids at prime time. Until we were in equal numbers we were winning on map. I brought some players to EP that I dueled and they changed faction due to respect. Map was only red at the start of event because me and 4 others did it. Hence a few pugs joined. If we don't take action no one does. It is really tiring. I have real life work and you make me work in the game....It is no fun. .....

You have been working hard, and if you continue your effort after Mayhem, EP is still the projected winner of this campaign.

As for prime time, every faction is made up of multiple actors: larger guilds, small scale guilds, casual pick-up groups, and solo players. Even AD has dedicated solo players. And it's important that all of these actors work together for the good of the faction.

For instance, for the first half of the year there was a large Grey Host DC guild that would login on Friday Nights. In fights, they would have 2 or 3x the numbers of IOTE. That's how big they were. A solo player could not do anything about them, but they had to be fought because they roamed the map opening AD and EP gates for fun. But solo players could find them and trail them around, tell me where they were going to be, and burn their camps and gank when they fought IOTE at a keep.

And keeping gates closed is the fundamental duty of a whole faction. Everyone needs to cooperate on that point.

Say you can't stop a group taking Rayles. But if they average taking it in 4 minutes, then set a goal that it will take them 6 minutes or 8 minutes to take it, and you and your friends will kill 1/3 of them or so. As you get better at it, you can prove to other people in your faction that it's worth a ride out there to join the defense. Even if you are just one player, you can form a social network that can achieve measurable success against larger groups.

And nothing slows a siege down like oil. Good luck out there.

gameswithaspoon · August 2022

On a lighter note, Spoon won Mayhem. You can all log out now.

PEACE.