A list of Skill Changes that need to happen in 8.1.3 and 8.1.4

KeiRaikon · July 2022

I know it won't happen because the last two weeks of PTS pretty much never change anything but there is still quite a bit of of stuff that needs to be changed if ZOS wants this patch to not be a disaster. I thought I'd make a list of the skill changes that need to happen based on everything I've read from numerous posts so they are consolidated in one location.

CLASSES:

Dragonknight
- Molten Whip needs to be made into a true Stamina morph and if they really don't want to do that just revert the hybrid cost.

Necromancer
- Flame Skull and morphs need to be made more responsive
- The nerf to Spirit Menders healing is too much still. Intensive should have been nerfed by 30-35% and Guardian only by around 20%
- Corpse management is still very funky with everything being on such varied timers.

Nightblade
- Not specific to this patch but just in general nobody likes the cast time on several of their abilities
- Surprise attack having 100% crit is not good give it some other effect.
- Stop messing with Dark Cloak just leave it how it is on live

Sorcerer
- Crystal Weapons is just awkward with the second hit being so much less damage
- Mines is already a pretty niche skill don't get rid of its ability to proc multiple mines at once its a needless nerf

Templar
- Jabs needs its animation to be polished the fact that the spear goes flying off to the side when weaving looks terrible.
- Jabs damage nerf should be reverted the damage nerf and proc rate nerf of Burning Light should have been enough now its performing worse than Flurry

Warden
- Like Flame Skull, Dive needs to be made more responsive
- Advanced Species needs to go back to being a damage increase
- Scorch needs to be put back onto its 3 second timer, give Subterranean Assault an actual morph and turn Deep Fissure to frost damage
- Stop nerfing the healing on Natures Grasp no one uses the ability right now anyways why does it need a nerf (I know the reason the all powerful Spread Sheet said so)
- Winter's Revenge needs its damage buffed

WEAPON LINES:

Destruction Staff
- The damage nerf to the Unstable Wall explosion is entirely unneeded

Dual Wield
- The Flurry animation needs SERIOUS work

Oof I didn't realize how many bad skill changes happened and need to be fixed until actually listing them out. Feel free to leave a comment on any more skill changes you think need to happen because I'm sure I missed some.

Jazraena · July 2022

Honestly, the only thing I want to see in 8.1.3 is:
"All combat changes from 8.1.0 on have been reverted to be redesigned and readdressed in a future update."

They're not going to fix it until Live anyway.

MacRibs · July 2022

Unstable Wall nerf is unbelievable, completely out of nowhere.

acastanza_ESO · July 2022

This is only the tip of the iceberg, it only really addresses some of the changes that ZOS did in this patch that actively made the existing situation worse and doesn't do anything about the previously existing areas where specific resource/class/gameplay combos were already underperforming (like PVP Magicka Sorcerer), or some areas from the 8.1.0 patch that were a wholesale garbage fire (like trashing LA/HA attack damage)

prof_doom · July 2022

That seems to cover everything I would've typed up, minus one thing.
Sorc - Reverse the Atronach ultimate nerfs. Completely unnecessary. They can keep the synergy affecting the group. That was actually a decent change.

Dogvahkiin · July 2022

MacRibs wrote: »

Unstable Wall nerf is unbelievable, completely out of nowhere.

It still outperforms endless hail and stampede with their corresponding MA weapons.
It's a shame they nerfed the MA 2-hander. It was rightful on top of the three options, because melee and risky with only a small AOE.

The endless Mag-meta (PVE) has finally to stop.

acastanza_ESO · July 2022

Dogvahkiin wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

Unstable Wall nerf is unbelievable, completely out of nowhere.

It still outperforms endless hail and stampede with their corresponding MA weapons.
It's a shame they nerfed the MA 2-hander. It was rightful on top of the three options, because melee and risky with only a small AOE.

The endless Mag-meta (PVE) has finally to stop.

What? Stampede with vMA 2H has been the meta for this entire last patch.
With one exception (Bahsei) it's been a stam meta since they started this ill-conceived hybridization nonsense? DPS using Daggers and vMA two-hander has been BIS, mag or stam. "Stam" weapons resoundingly outperform "mag" weapons. Stam armor sets now resoundly outperform Mag sets. Mag was being carried by Bahsei and the second they nerfed that it was all-in on Stam.

Maybe you're referring to vMA Inferno outperforming vMA 2H on PTS 8.1.x specifically, if anything that's just because of ZOS's complete inability to to any kind of subtle tweaking and constant resorting to heavy handed sledgehammer nerfs.But I assure you, it is very much not the case on live.

Dogvahkiin · July 2022

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Maybe you're referring to vMA Inferno outperforming vMA 2H on PTS 8.1.x specifically, if anything that's just because of ZOS's complete inability to to any kind of subtle tweaking and constant resorting to heavy handed sledgehammer nerfs.But I assure you, it is very much not the case on live.

Don't wanted to start a fight. Yes, I'm actually referring to the PTS. My info is that MA Inferno is still outperforming the other options (8.1.2).
You're right: The main problem is the sledgehammer method by ZOS.

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

What? Stampede with vMA 2H has been the meta for this entire last patch.

Yep. Only three months, that's all. It was a good change after years of vMA inferno. I'm sad it ended.

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

DPS using Daggers and vMA two-hander has been BIS, mag or stam.

Stam is the risky palystyle, even in optimized groups. There is a lot of content where you can't stack at the boss (at least not the whole time). You cannot do damage while repositioning with melee weapons - they need to do more damage to make up for this.
Of course, on a dummy, this will lead to a higher dps with daggers etc.. In real content range DPS is most of the time still preferable.

Vahndamme · July 2022

Update 35 will go down in history as the patch that fixed all server lag. Nobody will be logging, not even the devs as it is obvious they don't play their own game.

weights44 · July 2022

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Dogvahkiin wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

Unstable Wall nerf is unbelievable, completely out of nowhere.

It still outperforms endless hail and stampede with their corresponding MA weapons.
It's a shame they nerfed the MA 2-hander. It was rightful on top of the three options, because melee and risky with only a small AOE.

The endless Mag-meta (PVE) has finally to stop.

What? Stampede with vMA 2H has been the meta for this entire last patch.
With one exception (Bahsei) it's been a stam meta since they started this ill-conceived hybridization nonsense? DPS using Daggers and vMA two-hander has been BIS, mag or stam. "Stam" weapons resoundingly outperform "mag" weapons. Stam armor sets now resoundly outperform Mag sets. Mag was being carried by Bahsei and the second they nerfed that it was all-in on Stam.

Maybe you're referring to vMA Inferno outperforming vMA 2H on PTS 8.1.x specifically, if anything that's just because of ZOS's complete inability to to any kind of subtle tweaking and constant resorting to heavy handed sledgehammer nerfs.But I assure you, it is very much not the case on live.

I’ve been a stam main on almost all classes for years. And most raid runs since 2017 I’ve been in, and there were many, called for mag toon running vma inferno back bar. Not until maybe the last 3 months has 2h backbar finally been best in slot and stams getting some much needed love in content. Everyone’s pushed mag for easy completes from “range”. Hybrid finally allowed Stan metas to be worth it. 5 years vma inferno back bar vs 3 months 2h backbar…you can’t compare that.

I play on ps5/na and there have been rare occasions before u34 where stam was even allowed in content for most end game raid guilds. It’s crazy to think just because stam finally gets a run for 3 months or so that people want to compare apples to oranges.

Currently based on testing I’ve seen there’s a 1k dps difference between now, inferno, and 2h backbar uploaded to YouTube already. That’s hogwash. Stam should always be more risk more reward. Now everything’s getting an even playing field.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

KeiRaikon wrote: »

Warden
- Like Flame Skull, Dive needs to be made more responsive
- Advanced Species needs to go back to being a damage increase
- Scorch needs to be put back onto its 3 second timer, give Subterranean Assault an actual morph and turn Deep Fissure to frost damage
- Winter's Revenge needs its damage buffed

You got me all tearing up over here, man. Fightin for us nobody commoners.

MacRibs · July 2022

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

KeiRaikon wrote: »

Warden
- Like Flame Skull, Dive needs to be made more responsive
- Advanced Species needs to go back to being a damage increase
- Scorch needs to be put back onto its 3 second timer, give Subterranean Assault an actual morph and turn Deep Fissure to frost damage
- Winter's Revenge needs its damage buffed

You got me all tearing up over here, man. Fightin for us nobody commoners.

There's close to 2 seconds between you casting Dive and the cliff racer actually appearing and going for the target. The player model does to full arm animation and only then the cliff racer appears.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

KeiRaikon wrote: »

Warden
- Like Flame Skull, Dive needs to be made more responsive
- Advanced Species needs to go back to being a damage increase
- Scorch needs to be put back onto its 3 second timer, give Subterranean Assault an actual morph and turn Deep Fissure to frost damage
- Stop nerfing the healing on Natures Grasp no one uses the ability right now anyways why does it need a nerf (I know the reason the all powerful Spread Sheet said so)
- Winter's Revenge needs its damage buffed

let's see:

Dive: yes
Advanced Species: yes
Scorch: yes
Nature's Grasp: yes
Winter's Revenge: yes

verdict: yes

the more unified we are on these fronts, the easier it is to see for zos. good post!

Arjuna1696 · July 2022

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

KeiRaikon wrote: »

Warden
- Like Flame Skull, Dive needs to be made more responsive
- Advanced Species needs to go back to being a damage increase
- Scorch needs to be put back onto its 3 second timer, give Subterranean Assault an actual morph and turn Deep Fissure to frost damage
- Stop nerfing the healing on Natures Grasp no one uses the ability right now anyways why does it need a nerf (I know the reason the all powerful Spread Sheet said so)
- Winter's Revenge needs its damage buffed

let's see:

Dive: yes
Advanced Species: yes
Scorch: yes
Nature's Grasp: yes
Winter's Revenge: yes

verdict: yes

the more unified we are on these fronts, the easier it is to see for zos. good post!

My own two cents:

Dive: yes: yes
Advanced Species: yes: yes
Scorch: yes: yes
Nature's Grasp: yes: yes
Winter's Revenge: yes

verdict: yes: yes.

francesinhalover · July 2022

Just remove crystal weapon from the game and give stam sorcs a alt version of crystal frags

Also make dots 10sec and 20, 15 just doesnt work with anything on this patch

Ariordin · July 2022

Jabs animation needs to be repolished to match the appearance of other Aedric Spear abilities that use a spear animation.

Before Jabs was hacksawed in patch 35 all aedric spear abilities used the same animation. It was cool and provided synergy between the abilities that was visually pleasing.

gariondavey · July 2022

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

IZZEFlameLash · July 2022

Or, much simpler list would be, scrap these U35 changes and pvp sets, just release new dungeons and dungeon sets. Then test these changes piece by piece to get enough user data to reach the best level before incorporating such meta changing changes by next chapter.

Wuuffyy · July 2022

*fix ww basic scaling, and heal morph of claws (doesn’t need a nerf, was already underperforming)

doesurmindglow · July 2022

God this in a single post is light years better than anything actually being proposed for 8.1.2. Addresses most of the big problems with the current patch, and reaches back and touches some very old issues players have complained about ad nauseam.

Well done.

merpins · July 2022

I hate the new jabs animation with a burning passion, I think it should be entirely reverted.

I don't mind the new flurry animation... Taking into consideration it's just a faster heavy attack animation twice. It'd be much better with its own unique animation, but it does feel better to use as is now. Though I wouldn't mind the old animation either.

Rimskjegg · July 2022

I would add give Trap 18.5 secs duration + arm time and change passives that affect durations so that DK Embers/Claw and Engulfing/ Breath, and Degen actually last 20 secs.

Rimskjegg · July 2022

But there's too much to really change. Just revert all.

Firstmep · July 2022

francesinhalover wrote: »

Just remove crystal weapon from the game and give stam sorcs a alt version of crystal frags

Also make dots 10sec and 20, 15 just doesnt work with anything on this patch

And with class and morph passives it's even worse.
Vamp bane on32 seconds.
What does that line up with, exactly?

IZZEFlameLash · July 2022

Firstmep wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Just remove crystal weapon from the game and give stam sorcs a alt version of crystal frags

Also make dots 10sec and 20, 15 just doesnt work with anything on this patch

And with class and morph passives it's even worse.
Vamp bane on32 seconds.
What does that line up with, exactly?

Their spreadsheet looks cleaner is what it is.

KingKayanto · July 2022

Like others have said, only thing to do here is revert the changes back to what they were.. And maybe have a hard think about broken sets and stuff like that instead....

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2022

KeiRaikon wrote: »

Nightblade
- Not specific to this patch but just in general nobody likes the cast time on several of their abilities
- Surprise attack having 100% crit is not good give it some other effect.
- Stop messing with Dark Cloak just leave it how it is on live

NB main here. Personally, I think that Veiled Strike changes are kinda unnecessary in a 1st place. It is by any means not a bad skill, but in fact one of the best spammable in the game. Idk why they are tinkering with this skill & morphs. It will only lead to nerfs in the future as things like "guaranteed" crit or hit (udodgeable/unblockable stuff) is not necessarily "OP" - but I would rather use a term "exploitative in its nature". So I can imagine the near future where both PvE & PvP players will complain about it:
- PvE because "rotation is too easy vs DPS you get" complain, as for the most part you just spam SA/wave LA (same as it was with WW in Wolfhunter update & WW got wrecked by nerfs shortly after).
- PvP because players will just stack as much crit dmg bonus modifiers & penetration as possible, totally ignoring crit chance (same reason why Mechanical Acuity set was nerfed & then re-worked).

Imho it would be far better to "trade" Veiled Strike changes for Consuming Darkness & morphs changes. Because unlike Veiled Strike, Consuming Darkness actually deserves some love. It is probably the worst (or one of the worst) ultimate ability in the entire game. Even non-NB mains often mention this ability when some one asks what should be buffed / reworked.

MindOfTheSwarm · July 2022

MacRibs wrote: »

Unstable Wall nerf is unbelievable, completely out of nowhere.

It’s an attempt to stop it working like an AoE spammable and indirectly make Impulse more relevant. Honestly, they should have just made impulse more appealing.

sharquez · July 2022

francesinhalover wrote: »

Just remove crystal weapon from the game and give stam sorcs a alt version of crystal frags

Also make dots 10sec and 20, 15 just doesnt work with anything on this patch

Ugh if you want frags just use it. it's not like you use that 15k magicka for anything else, leave crystal weapon alone. Wish it would just go back to how it was before they started needlessly messing with it.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

Going to toss in my two cents on the "Dive Issue"

I think it's time to have a Melee Morph and a Ranged Morph of Dive. Now before we get into the thing with "But Zos would need to design a new animation and that will take X amount of time and moneys" The animation is in the game already, it's been in the game same Morrowind, NPCs are once again hiding the variety we crave.

Meet the Brigand Beastcaller:

It's nice and easy, already fits the motif, as if Zos made it for us then at the last minute tossed a bird in our hand and we watched as our nice and easy melee spammable rode off into the sunset with an NPC who can't appreciate it because it's literally just numbers in a computer box.

Anyway, I want my Damn Melee Spammable Zos. And we can still have the Bird, in fact, keep the new fancy Screaming Cliff Racer (adjust the damage to Frost, no I will not make a concession on this, you will hear this every patch, drop magic damage completely, Warden only needs Frost and Bleed, give us the DK treatment we want and maybe deserve?), the new Melee Spammable can be Bleed Damage and maybe grant Empower (which Warden does not have access to in-class).

Ok that's my over-dramatic take on Dive, I generally dislike the skill. If you do in your heart of hearts decide to make dive better, consider that in the form of a speed increase, because it's still very slow. I could probably run up to my enemy and shank them with the Bird faster than it flies. Also Remove the ranged requirement for Off-balance or it's useless in PvP.

ESO_Nightingale · July 2022

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

Unstable Wall nerf is unbelievable, completely out of nowhere.

It’s an attempt to stop it working like an AoE spammable and indirectly make Impulse more relevant. Honestly, they should have just made impulse more appealing.

Huge agree on this.