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U35 - Surprise attack is blatantly overpowered.
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Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Priyasekarssk wrote: »[snip]
The worst part is they said after this patch they will spend the next few patches balancing it.
I mean what?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 23, 2022 4:59PM4 -
chongguang✭✭✭I think even with the buff of SA, Nb will still not be the meta in PVE again. Soooooo Many people believe the AOE dots dps of NECS and DKS
So this skill is not op , NB is not op in PVE2 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭chongguang wrote: »I think even with the buff of SA, Nb will still not be the meta in PVE again. Soooooo Many people believe the AOE dots dps of NECS and DKS
So this skill is not op , NB is not op in PVE
I think NB is very competitive with other classes on the PTS except Dk, which is just better than everyone from the tests I have seen. They have the best spammable and the least nerfed dots...
Auto crit SA is just unhealthy in so many ways. If they need to boost NB pve dps they should un-butcher twisting path.1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The nerfs to dots, templar, dk and stamsorc will help Nb far more than these buffs tbh. I don't play this game actively anymore but last patch my Nb felt like a throwpick compared to templar and dk and that was before they nerfed Cloak. Oaken and Calu gankers are annoying but that is getting nerfed anyways and in everything else Nb is underperforming right now.
Nbs main issue is that ults and Assassins Will are so delayed that you have enough time to break free before dodging it lol. It baffles me that ZOS ignores the issue that some classes have almost only unavoidable skills (dk, temp and even mcro to some extend) while others get their entire dmg hardcountered by everybody who start panicrolling or pressing block at low health (msorc and Nb).
I don't think that a crit buff to SA is what the class needs but whatever. Imo the class is definitely in need of a buff (along with magsorc and warden). I'd rather see nb, warden and msorc getting on par with current Dk, templar, stamsorc and necro instead of (over)nerfing these.Edited by Ragnaroek93 on July 22, 2022 6:36PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
Olen_Mikko✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightblades should be on the top of the dps class, as they're the assassin class. This is one great buff to ensure that.
And this is one of the ultra rare patches, where Nightblades gets some love. last patch was 1.6 so yea, please keep 'em coming.NB enthusiastic:- Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
- Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
- Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
- Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE
Go dominion or go home
Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.2 -
Remathilis✭✭✭✭✭
✭In the desolate ruins lay the bodies of sorcerers destroyed by crystal weapon and bound armaments nerfs, wardens crippled by arctic blast and scorch changes, necros lamenting lost spirit menders, templars with broken jabs, and dragonknights struggling with sustain. The nightblade stirs from under the pile of rubble he was buried under and his hand touches an unfamiliar object. "Is this a buff?" He asks in disbelief? Suddenly, a voice calls out from across the ruins. "Hey, there is a class getting a buff! Don't let him get away!" The community cries as they bring thier hammers and pitchforks.
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think that it would have been far better if they buffed Consuming Darkness instead, as that is probably the worst ulti in the entire game lol.
Speaking of Veiled Strike & morphs... this is probably one of the last ability I would mention if some one asked me what NB skill should be buffed.... and I am a NB main...
I try to think of a scenario in which Dev team would come up with an idea to buff this skill in particular... and the only reasonable idea that comes to mind is this:
They probably looked up some metrics & statistics data and saw that Concealed Weapon is not used as often as Surprise Attack. Not necessary because it is bad, but because it is melee magicka NB morph, and mag builds for the most part use staff, that is a ranged weapon, so they also use ranged spamable.
So, ZOS buffed Concealed Weapon by a lot to ensure more people will use it... but later on they realised that it is way, way stronger than Surprise Attack. So, they kinda cornered themselves, as now we have one morph that is obvious winner. So what do we do ? We buff Surprise Attack too ! ... Yeah...
Generally, both morphs are good and if they touch one - then it will be a better option. Even if they would only change Concealed Weapon to have minor expedition instead of sneak speed - then overall it is already a better option, as it gives quite valuable permanent buff vs around 3K armour de-buff on a target that Surprise Attack gives.
Imho it is better & safer not to touch Veiled Strike & morphs at all, at least for this patch.
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Gilliam, please delete your nightblade toon and play warden or Sorc for the next six months.
Make the game better, instead of easier for *you* to play with your one favorite class.6 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When it comes to nightblades, invisibility is a playstyle and always critting on a high damage spammable is just something that adds a little flavor.
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xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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Pretty sure Caluurion's is still the strongest instant burst proc in the game even after being nerfed in half, that's how screwed that set was. Good luck ganking with those wet noodle LA/HA... the Surprise Attack buff will be less noticeable on gankers that are already trying to crit, and much more noticeable on Dark Cloak brawler NBs with lower crit chance that want to spam it. Too bad the class is still crippled by horrible artificial delays on its gap closer, charge-up nuke, and both its damage ults. How would a NB main dev ever let their class get butchered like that...xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »The next meta proc set + nu surprise attack is going to be better then calurions + old surprise attack.
PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance0 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭Just have the guaranteed crit status effect work when battle spirit is inactive. I completely get buffing nbs in pve but this breaks them from a pvp perspective imo.
A spammable that gives a status effect, stuns AND a guaranteed crit? That's so much when you compare them to other spammables.Edited by FrankonPC on July 23, 2022 4:20PM6 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is guaranteed to hit nearly as hard as proc'd whip without 'use your class skill line thrice to get this damage' type of deal.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel2 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, as another player with 3-4k hours on NB, I do not understand this buff.
Surprise attack is one of, if not the best spammables in the game. It was fine with just the guaranteed sundered proc - arguably, the stun shouldn't have even been present on it. Allowing it to perma crit from the flank is just a mistake. This should be rolled back.
On the other hand, concealed weapon DID need a buff to be brought up to par with surprise attack (the version of surprise on live, that is). I like the changes to concealed weapon, however I'd like to see the 300 WD be tied to casting the ability rather than leaving stealth. Tying it to stealth is just silly.
SA is not the best spammable in the game. Whip and jabs are better, both actively and passively. Look at all you get from both morphs of jabs.
As pointed out above, this SA change is better for PvE. It's nice for pvp but really isn't that big of a deal. The fights where I need more damage are not usually fought from flank do to the player being better at maneuvering and defending.
As for your complaint of concealed, this will give it a chance to meet SA for damage output. If you required it to be cast to get the buff it would be significantly less useful because you would be forced to lead with CW rather than soul harvest or a heavy attack. You would be doing a lot less damage.
As of now, it basically gets you around the most negative issue with running a mag melee gank. You can't stack frenzied momentum with mag skills. This gives you the ability to have the weapon/spell damage only Stam has access to.
You do realize that the class can do things other than gank, right?
Brawler stam/hybrid, or just standard melee magNB both exist. Neither can benefit from the concealed weapon change.
As far as PVP spammables go, surprise is undeniably top 3 with the two you just listed, and I wouldn't be quick to place any of them above on another as they all have strong, unique effects attached to them.kypranb14_ESO wrote: »It only has the guaranteed critical hit if it stuns. The patch notes are misleading.
It actually is a guaranteed crit only from the sides. It doesn't matter if it stuns or not - the guaranteed crit only happens on the flanks, which are apparently the 90* sections conal sections on either sides of your character. Does not include the rear.
I've tested it, and it only crits from flanking when it stuns. I can hit an enemy from the flank while they are stun immune and not crit.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »Watching the forums go from "WE DID IT BROS! WE DEFEATED THE EVIL GANKERINOS! NO MORE CALURIONS!!111", to "NOOOOOO!!!!! plz don't surprise attack me!!!" is going to feel good. Like watching someone showboat right before crossing the finish line only to trip and lose. Really should have learned by now that Zos ALWAYS leaves in a way to gank. Whether on purpose or for reasons that will get 100% get me [snipped] if I dare speak them aloud, they always leave a way.
The next meta proc set + nu surprise attack is going to be better then calurions + old surprise attack.
Because what they want is cloak deleted. It was never about Caluurions and it's not about SA now.Edited by DrSlaughtr on July 28, 2022 1:02AMI drink and I stream things.0 -
Kory✭✭✭✭Gilliam, please delete your nightblade toon and play warden or Sorc for the next six months.
Make the game better, instead of easier for *you* to play with your one favorite class.
Be careful what you wish for, they might discover that Warden and Sorc aren't as weak as some would want them to believe
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Kory✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »Yeah, as another player with 3-4k hours on NB, I do not understand this buff.
Surprise attack is one of, if not the best spammables in the game. It was fine with just the guaranteed sundered proc - arguably, the stun shouldn't have even been present on it. Allowing it to perma crit from the flank is just a mistake. This should be rolled back.
On the other hand, concealed weapon DID need a buff to be brought up to par with surprise attack (the version of surprise on live, that is). I like the changes to concealed weapon, however I'd like to see the 300 WD be tied to casting the ability rather than leaving stealth. Tying it to stealth is just silly.
SA is not the best spammable in the game. Whip and jabs are better, both actively and passively. Look at all you get from both morphs of jabs.
As pointed out above, this SA change is better for PvE. It's nice for pvp but really isn't that big of a deal. The fights where I need more damage are not usually fought from flank do to the player being better at maneuvering and defending.
As for your complaint of concealed, this will give it a chance to meet SA for damage output. If you required it to be cast to get the buff it would be significantly less useful because you would be forced to lead with CW rather than soul harvest or a heavy attack. You would be doing a lot less damage.
As of now, it basically gets you around the most negative issue with running a mag melee gank. You can't stack frenzied momentum with mag skills. This gives you the ability to have the weapon/spell damage only Stam has access to.
You do realize that the class can do things other than gank, right?
Brawler stam/hybrid, or just standard melee magNB both exist. Neither can benefit from the concealed weapon change.
As far as PVP spammables go, surprise is undeniably top 3 with the two you just listed, and I wouldn't be quick to place any of them above on another as they all have strong, unique effects attached to them.kypranb14_ESO wrote: »It only has the guaranteed critical hit if it stuns. The patch notes are misleading.
It actually is a guaranteed crit only from the sides. It doesn't matter if it stuns or not - the guaranteed crit only happens on the flanks, which are apparently the 90* sections conal sections on either sides of your character. Does not include the rear.
I've tested it, and it only crits from flanking when it stuns. I can hit an enemy from the flank while they are stun immune and not crit.
Which contradicts the pts tootip because it says it procs off balance AND critically striking from the flank only (supposedly both happen from flank regardless of any stun).
But it seems inconsistent. Because on one dummy it nonstop crits from the flank, and then testing again it crits, and then 3 non critical SA in a row from the flank. So does off balance have to proc to get guaranteed crit from flank? I seem to crit regardless, and sometime I don't(kind of rare though....).
Edited by Kory on July 28, 2022 4:32AM1 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »Watching the forums go from "WE DID IT BROS! WE DEFEATED THE EVIL GANKERINOS! NO MORE CALURIONS!!111", to "NOOOOOO!!!!! plz don't surprise attack me!!!" is going to feel good. Like watching someone showboat right before crossing the finish line only to trip and lose. Really should have learned by now that Zos ALWAYS leaves in a way to gank. Whether on purpose or for reasons that will get 100% get me [snipped] if I dare speak them aloud, they always leave a way.
The next meta proc set + nu surprise attack is going to be better then calurions + old surprise attack.
Because what they want is cloak deleted. It was never about Caluurions and it's not about SA now.
No, experienced PvPers on builds that normally had no fear of gankers were suddenly instadying in the new Oaken/Caluu gank meta. I saw a streamer (good player too) throw a fit and leave Cyrodiil for BGs. The insane ganks were a topic of discussion in Cyrodiil zone chat and the forums. Most correctly identified Oaken as the culprit that pushed the Caluurion ganks over the edge and for good measure ZOS is nerfing both. And even with all the complaints about nerfs, there is almost no complaining about the Caluurion nerf. Go figure.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP3 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »Watching the forums go from "WE DID IT BROS! WE DEFEATED THE EVIL GANKERINOS! NO MORE CALURIONS!!111", to "NOOOOOO!!!!! plz don't surprise attack me!!!" is going to feel good. Like watching someone showboat right before crossing the finish line only to trip and lose. Really should have learned by now that Zos ALWAYS leaves in a way to gank. Whether on purpose or for reasons that will get 100% get me [snipped] if I dare speak them aloud, they always leave a way.
The next meta proc set + nu surprise attack is going to be better then calurions + old surprise attack.
Because what they want is cloak deleted. It was never about Caluurions and it's not about SA now.
No, experienced PvPers on builds that normally had no fear of gankers were suddenly instadying in the new Oaken/Caluu gank meta. I saw a streamer (good player too) throw a fit and leave Cyrodiil for BGs. The insane ganks were a topic of discussion in Cyrodiil zone chat and the forums. Most correctly identified Oaken as the culprit that pushed the Caluurion ganks over the edge and for good measure ZOS is nerfing both. And even with all the complaints about nerfs, there is almost no complaining about the Caluurion nerf. Go figure.
This has nothing to do with oakensoul. There's practically a new anti NB post a day. This has been going on for a long time. They pick out the flavor of the moment, which has been Caluurions lately. Before that it was mechanical aquity. Before that, was it clever? I think so.
Point is, it was never about Caluurions. That's why the narrative has shifted to surprise attack. By the way for the first two weeks i read reply after reply saying surprise attack does too much and shouldn't have a cc. So the devs remove the cc, thereby kinda screwing brawlers, players of who, oddly enough, are some of the people complaining on here about cloak. Funny.
But yes, we see that the cc was removed and it's still not enough. They can remove the not-so-guaranteed crit and it'll then be the damage buff on concealed, and so on and so on.
I drink and I stream things.1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
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They gave their avoidable meele ult a cast time, removed it's heal debuff, "removed" their 2nd execute, removed their snare, nerfed minor maim, released an op set which counters crit based classes (rallying cry), nerfed grim focus several times, allow dots to tick through cloak and now nerf dark cloak and gank builds. While most buffs are to skills which hardly fit into the Nb toolkit and won't get slotted anyways (like ambush xd). "ZOS only buffs Nb" (while dks, temps, stamsorcs, magcros and gankers are out of control)...Just have the guaranteed crit status effect work when battle spirit is inactive. I completely get buffing nbs in pve but this breaks them from a pvp perspective imo.
A spammable that gives a status effect, stuns AND a guaranteed crit? That's so much when you compare them to other spammables.
People complained that it is too strong on PTS, it got nerfed but people won't stop complaining until the skill is weaker than it is on the live server. And SA/concealed should be strong considering how weak Nb dots (literally the slowest projectile in the game wtf?) and how lackluster their burst skill is.
Edit: From what I've seen the damage on PTS is so *** low that you have to go afk to die, so I don't get what you're all even complaining about. I feel like people in ESO PvP just lable everything which they die against as broken while not realising that dieing in PvP is INTENDED.Edited by Ragnaroek93 on July 28, 2022 9:24AMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2
