Yes, people are leaving, and yes, it's because of this patch

saar · July 2022

maxjapank wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I agree about those who don’t want to improve. But it’s the tone of how you approach those who don’t know any better that makes one an elite toxic. Perhaps people could actually be constructive without snarky comments.

For some toxic casuals it really does not matter how you bring it up - they will bite your head off regardless.

True. But same for toxic elites. There are two sides to the coin. Let’s not forget that.

I find toxic elitists (elite defined as someone performing at the highest level) are quite rare in this game. I don't doubt they exist, but what most people encounter are toxic players who think they are elitist, but are actually mid tier players. Most genuinely elite players will give good and constructive advice to those who ask for it, and who have a good attitude.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

maxjapank wrote: »

I watched the video. I support players who help others and those who try to tackle end game challenges. But I don’t support “carries.” Carries are not really about helping players get better. It’s just making gold off of others who cannot do content for titles and skins. Sure, I reckon there is a market for this. But a discord or group leaving over this becoming more difficult is okay in my eyes.

I also think his “toxic casuals” remark was way out of line. There are toxic players spread throughout the entire player base from casuals to elites. It was ver telling watching his chat complain about toxic casuals, and yet being completely clueless at how the words they were using were toxic, too. Players need to quit this in game fighting.

I do support Nefas. Overall he’s been a positive streamer and deserves more praise. Hope he gets some rest mentally.

You can not pass such content with out a group. And it is 50/50 situations. Some groups are interesting to play with but some ... it is better to pay to pass and do not play with.

So it depends i think.

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

Some players are so "elit", that they are impossible to play with ))) Some buy achivments. So real problem is about find or raise a group and pass content with it. So i think about it a little different.

Each such group has a core players. Such groups than in future do carry runs.

If it is easy to buy achivment a lot of players do not care much to play with people they do not like and it is hard to
find people to pass, if no carrys - more people and easier form group.

The more interesting question is there people interested in doing such content ?

If each update in MMO nerf players, people who come to seriosly play and do something are not really motivated to do any thing )

Well, not every raid group sells carries.
It might be a controversial practice, but it does not affect your chances to join a group. When you hire them, you literally just buy one run. They aren't selling group/guild spots.
Some people believe that if they buy a run, they can pretend that they did these trials normally and get an invite to a dedicated raiding guild. But this community is very small, and it would be very diffiucult for someone to hide that they bought their achievements. Not to mention that dedicated guilds would ask you to show logs to prove your experience.

I think normal players do not care much about such thing. If they buy some run for gear / skin / thing in house.
As about achivment link runs - i even do not walk with such groups and do not respect such people )

If you have skill - you pass / if you have no skill you will not pass )
When some people ask link - they show they have no skill )

It is how our gaming school looks like )))

And i am always anonim - so i do not think it is even possible to find me there )

It will be funny to see our logs
"- why do tank - tank in imphelible aether and 3 different not compete sets ? And why it is 11 people in party"
"-Well ... tank drink to much and go sleap - but we hope - that he may be return ... - so ... our tank is DD who forgot his tank sets on other character - and is lazy to relog in ..."

I think such thingth will be hard understandable by current eletist groups )))

But ... we passed )

So Ha school of game play is different.

You go and pass - no matter what )
Or if you do not like some thing you even will not go.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

saar wrote: »

I find toxic elitists (elite defined as someone performing at the highest level) are quite rare in this game. I don't doubt they exist, but what most people encounter are toxic players who think they are elitist, but are actually mid tier players. Most genuinely elite players will give good and constructive advice to those who ask for it, and who have a good attitude.

Eh. At the very very top, the top 1% of the top 1% or whatever you want to use, it gets pretty toxic. Had several players from my cores "migrate" up over the years and all shifted into hyper toxicity. The score pushing and world record climate seems extremely toxic in ESO. The step down, however, is largely just banter and helpful attitudes. Still some toxicity, but it's a lot less common and vastly less accepted.

shadyjane62 · July 2022

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Yes people are leaving the game because of 35. I'm looking myself, just not sure where everyone is going.

I cancelled my sub and went to SWtOR since I hadn't played it for a couple years. I'm having fun catching up with the story at the moment and trying to get all my characters leveled to 80.

I've gone back to WoW where it all started. I have a library of games I can go back to, but it's fun to see where I began to play.

Besides I've always missed being a gnome.

siddique · July 2022

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

saar wrote: »

I find toxic elitists (elite defined as someone performing at the highest level) are quite rare in this game. I don't doubt they exist, but what most people encounter are toxic players who think they are elitist, but are actually mid tier players. Most genuinely elite players will give good and constructive advice to those who ask for it, and who have a good attitude.

Eh. At the very very top, the top 1% of the top 1% or whatever you want to use, it gets pretty toxic. Had several players from my cores "migrate" up over the years and all shifted into hyper toxicity. The score pushing and world record climate seems extremely toxic in ESO. The step down, however, is largely just banter and helpful attitudes. Still some toxicity, but it's a lot less common and vastly less accepted.

Still not as toxic as someone who just got their first trifecta. That lot is where its at. 😄

Sennecca · July 2022

It's not just THIS patch, but This patch is the icing on the cake. I've been here for 7 years. I've seen controversial changes come and go, get buffed then nerfed over and over. I have a full slate of toons all of them will wear the same gear, all of them mag or stam will have daggers because the staff is so underwhelming compared to melee (which is NOT why I made a mag toon). I feel like class identity is so homgenized for the sake of balance, that most of them feel exactly the same. If this patch goes through, they will all lay down their buffs, then their aoe's then nicely ask the mobs to stay in or move inside the aoe since it lasts an obscene amount of time and does minimal damage, then spam my spammable until my brain goes dead. Rinse repeat. I play games because I like to be engaged. Not brain dead. I've already started playing GW2 and having more fun in that game than current ESO. haven't logged in for weeks and have given most of my items away. So yes. ppl are leaving over the current dev vision of the game.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

I like HA players game play

It is very dynamic

And you have a room to rest a little if thingth go long and bad ))) So HA = one love

And you can walk with different groups and people - do not need in other peoples sets )
And lightning looking good )

https://youtu.be/4qme8unsTd4

Kusto · July 2022

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

xHotguy6pack · July 2022

Game is pretty bad these days. [snip] The game started going downhill when Riot Games cleaned house and fired some people and ZoS hired a few. Which it really shows in their balancing, "promises" and updates.

They have lost most of their assests like Fengrush for example and others who would stream the game. Greymoor was the start of the worst to come and this next update will most likely put the final nail in their coffin.

[edited for bashing]

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

Kusto wrote: »

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

PB is almost certainly a dead trifecta for anyone but the top .0001%. DSR trifecta is absolutely dead in the water for probably everyone.

But sure, this will change nothing.

Skjaldbjorn · July 2022

siddique wrote: »

Still not as toxic as someone who just got their first trifecta. That lot is where its at. 😄

I dunno, man. You get into the real top end and it starts with the whole doxxing thing, sending pictures around of people without their consent, spamming their posts everywhere, slurs, literal harassment and other bad stuff. It can be a real not nice place.

starkerealm · July 2022

Casdha wrote: »

Just to show I did what I said I would do and give my personal results.

I did a quick run through Fungal Grotto 1 and it was about what I expected which is not much difference at all and about what I said except I was a little off on multiple targets. I would hit 80k+ on the trash crab adds in the middle and the end so a little higher than the 70k I stated (for some reason I was thinking Brawler maxed on 6 targets but it must be a couple more). I still got around 90% of health on shields for max targets as well so no change for me.

What does this mean? These changes do not affect players like me in any noticeable way.

(I took a pic with the event reward to prove that I was on PTS)

edit: side note - this is the first time I've ever taken a companion in on one of these and them not die once (I admit I haven't tried in a while) so it makes me wonder if they've done some tweaking to companions.

If you want to fake high group numbers, you want to go into Banished Cells, and nuke the Banekin ahead of the Shadowrend fight. Last time I checked it on my tank, I pulled over 100k.

Everyone knows that your mudcrab swarm numbers are not real. If you want to meaningfully contribute to the conversation, install combat metrics, go to someone's house with a dummy, and parse on a 3m or 6m. (Hell parse on a 21m if you really want, but be aware you will get scrutinized for that.) Then, post screenshots of your parse page from CM.

Casdha · July 2022

Edit: I forgot to state what this was - Arx Corinium (Veteran) Final Boss - Update 35 on PTS

Yes I know I'm slow but I'm always slow and the DPS on this fight over the whole fight winds up being around only 4k but as you can see how I have to fight this particular boss it is easy to see why as half of the fight is downtime. Also, I haven't tried this in at least 2 years so I'm a bit rusty. This is without changing the gear I use which includes a full gold set of Twice Born Star and a full gold set of New Moon Acolyte , and odd ring of Agility (no set bonus but gold and enchanted for weapon damage and the trait is infused) and a Ring of the Wildhunt. It took me 3 tries to get my method of beating this boss back down but as for how I play, it still is not too terribly different than it was the last time I tried to do this. I've only included the last boss as this dungeon took me over an hour to kill everything in it but that one dang snake that I can't seem to interrupt from healing, so I skipped that one after a couple of tries. Don't hate on me too bad this is my mat and treasure farmer as well as my Grand Master Crafter.

edit: side note/update - I think I figured out why I couldn't stop the snake, Ember kept standing in the red circle and I had forgotten how it worked she was keeping the thing at full health.

Now for the feedback, I actually seemed to notice that it does seem a bit harder to hit my buffs while bar swapping as it almost seemed like there was a minumum time between button hits before they would register but it still feels about the same to me, at least for how I play. It actually slowed down how fast I have to press skill buttons but that caused me to miss my window to activate a skill several times because I'm not used to it.

As stated elsewhere, I play reactive, I don't parse, I don't rotate and I don't meta chase, I basically try to see how much of this content can be done just by playing around with stuff. I wonder how many others try to use that Psijic skill in a vet boss fight for sustain.

FYI forcing this boss from one end to the other and making her face the outside wall is what makes the island on the other end always clear and it is always the same ones. You don't have to watch the whole video (it is 21 minutes) but a few rounds and you can see what I mean.

As far as the crab comment above goes, it is simple math, 20 crabs (or how ever many there are, 10, 15) and the crab boss in the middle of Fungal Grotto 1 using Brawler with over 5k weapon damage,,,, well, 80k is actually a bit lower than what it could be if all targets counted. I may make a video of that section tomorrow just to explain what I mean.
edit: when I say DPS I don't parse or anything like that, my numbers come from the meters on Bandit's UI so how ever accurate those numbers are are how accurate my statements are.

https://youtu.be/TQJZVqkBLbY

Matthew_Galvanus · July 2022

If this goes through without serious changes, it is going to be the one that buries my main toon and finally convinces me to let go. I am so completely disgusted by this latest bout of whiplash as they pull the rug out from under me and gut my Pet Magsorc in a way that I will not recover from.

sarahthes · July 2022

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

PrincessOfThieves wrote: »

Well, not every raid group sells carries.
It might be a controversial practice, but it does not affect your chances to join a group. When you hire them, you literally just buy one run. They aren't selling group/guild spots.
Some people believe that if they buy a run, they can pretend that they did these trials normally and get an invite to a dedicated raiding guild. But this community is very small, and it would be very diffiucult for someone to hide that they bought their achievements. Not to mention that dedicated guilds would ask you to show logs to prove your experience.

Speaking as someone who has done a fair few carries, the carry discords know when these folks spam their clears around and try to pass them off as legitimate. It rarely if ever goes well for them, especially a lot of the higher-end carries like GS.

Thanks for confirmation, that's what I suspected.

Yeah, I'm not aware of any list that tracks which clears were prog vs carry, but it's generally easy to tell when someone joins a group if they know what they're doing or if the title/achievement does not match ability. That being said, I've played with some people that initially paid for skins or gear, then later became skilled enough to pull their weight in the same content.

I paid for my first vAS HM

I legitimately got IR about 6 months later once I'd somewhat improved as a player.

MentalxHammer · July 2022

saar wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I agree about those who don’t want to improve. But it’s the tone of how you approach those who don’t know any better that makes one an elite toxic. Perhaps people could actually be constructive without snarky comments.

For some toxic casuals it really does not matter how you bring it up - they will bite your head off regardless.

True. But same for toxic elites. There are two sides to the coin. Let’s not forget that.

I find toxic elitists (elite defined as someone performing at the highest level) are quite rare in this game. I don't doubt they exist, but what most people encounter are toxic players who think they are elitist, but are actually mid tier players. Most genuinely elite players will give good and constructive advice to those who ask for it, and who have a good attitude.

Agreed, obviously there will always be toxic players within all tiers of skill in gaming, but a large majority of elite PvP players are actually very polite!

boi_anachronism_ · July 2022

Sergykid wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

TL;DW - They're leaving because they can't get enough people that can reliably do end game content. They point out that there's only 600 characters that have actually managed to finish VRG HM, and odds are a lot of those characters are from the same accounts.

Arthtur wrote: »

Yeah, ppl talk about how endgame players are toxic and they u see this...those things....
Seriously, even if endgame community is 5%, how many toxic ppl is there? More than in 95%? Ppl are rly blind... u just need to go read some thread on general subforum to see ppl who are happy that endgame ppl are leaving becuase they arent healthy for the game anyway.

none of them have the patience to properly run those trials the way those were meant to, they want them finished in 30 minutes or they don't even attempt. They will only run with people whose dps can skip mechanics or ads waves with, or won't bother. Having such a limited and strict attitude will lead to this thing, keeping away any potential completers.
And yes some endgame raiders are viewed as unnecessarily toxic, for justified reason most probably. Not the "i am better than you" type of arrogance, just snob.

prof_doom wrote: »

is the biggest advocate for this game you had

maybe u're just overrating, it's understandable that you may have some specific likeliness for how he does what he does but that's subjective on your part, he also indirectly supports toxicity too.

Lol I'm reading this as I sit in a 5hr vrg prog. The 3rd night in a row. Because we are struggling to finish before u35 destroys our chances.

Kusto · July 2022

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

TL;DW - They're leaving because they can't get enough people that can reliably do end game content. They point out that there's only 600 characters that have actually managed to finish VRG HM, and odds are a lot of those characters are from the same accounts.

Arthtur wrote: »

Yeah, ppl talk about how endgame players are toxic and they u see this...those things....
Seriously, even if endgame community is 5%, how many toxic ppl is there? More than in 95%? Ppl are rly blind... u just need to go read some thread on general subforum to see ppl who are happy that endgame ppl are leaving becuase they arent healthy for the game anyway.

none of them have the patience to properly run those trials the way those were meant to, they want them finished in 30 minutes or they don't even attempt. They will only run with people whose dps can skip mechanics or ads waves with, or won't bother. Having such a limited and strict attitude will lead to this thing, keeping away any potential completers.
And yes some endgame raiders are viewed as unnecessarily toxic, for justified reason most probably. Not the "i am better than you" type of arrogance, just snob.

prof_doom wrote: »

is the biggest advocate for this game you had

maybe u're just overrating, it's understandable that you may have some specific likeliness for how he does what he does but that's subjective on your part, he also indirectly supports toxicity too.

Lol I'm reading this as I sit in a 5hr vrg prog. The 3rd night in a row. Because we are struggling to finish before u35 destroys our chances.

If it's a non hm RG then you're in a very bad group and should find another. vRG is run all the time by Crag pugs.

starkerealm · July 2022

MentalxHammer wrote: »

saar wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I agree about those who don’t want to improve. But it’s the tone of how you approach those who don’t know any better that makes one an elite toxic. Perhaps people could actually be constructive without snarky comments.

For some toxic casuals it really does not matter how you bring it up - they will bite your head off regardless.

True. But same for toxic elites. There are two sides to the coin. Let’s not forget that.

I find toxic elitists (elite defined as someone performing at the highest level) are quite rare in this game. I don't doubt they exist, but what most people encounter are toxic players who think they are elitist, but are actually mid tier players. Most genuinely elite players will give good and constructive advice to those who ask for it, and who have a good attitude.

Agreed, obviously there will always be toxic players within all tiers of skill in gaming, but a large majority of elite PvP players are actually very polite!

Probably because the majority of toxic PvPers filtered off after housing was introduced and the RP community they thrived on harassing had slipped into private instances where they couldn't intrude.

Legitimately, toxic PvPers are why ESO has no meaningful open world RP community to this day. Whether that's a good or bad thing I'll leave up to you, but they did that.

MentalxHammer · July 2022

starkerealm wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

saar wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I agree about those who don’t want to improve. But it’s the tone of how you approach those who don’t know any better that makes one an elite toxic. Perhaps people could actually be constructive without snarky comments.

For some toxic casuals it really does not matter how you bring it up - they will bite your head off regardless.

True. But same for toxic elites. There are two sides to the coin. Let’s not forget that.

I find toxic elitists (elite defined as someone performing at the highest level) are quite rare in this game. I don't doubt they exist, but what most people encounter are toxic players who think they are elitist, but are actually mid tier players. Most genuinely elite players will give good and constructive advice to those who ask for it, and who have a good attitude.

Agreed, obviously there will always be toxic players within all tiers of skill in gaming, but a large majority of elite PvP players are actually very polite!

Probably because the majority of toxic PvPers filtered off after housing was introduced and the RP community they thrived on harassing had slipped into private instances where they couldn't intrude.

Legitimately, toxic PvPers are why ESO has no meaningful open world RP community to this day. Whether that's a good or bad thing I'll leave up to you, but they did that.

I’m sorry but your accusation that elite PvP players scared off open world roleplayers seems pretty baseless and frankly hard to believe. Mind explaining what you mean? Are you talking about roleplayers in PvP?

jecks33 · July 2022

sbr32 wrote: »

How can I trust a game where the senior creative leadership team is not only out of touch with their player base, but openly and publicly antagonistic towards them?

Exactly this. Sometimes I feel like I'm an enemy for the devs, and it's not funny

starkerealm · July 2022

MentalxHammer wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

saar wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I agree about those who don’t want to improve. But it’s the tone of how you approach those who don’t know any better that makes one an elite toxic. Perhaps people could actually be constructive without snarky comments.

For some toxic casuals it really does not matter how you bring it up - they will bite your head off regardless.

True. But same for toxic elites. There are two sides to the coin. Let’s not forget that.

I find toxic elitists (elite defined as someone performing at the highest level) are quite rare in this game. I don't doubt they exist, but what most people encounter are toxic players who think they are elitist, but are actually mid tier players. Most genuinely elite players will give good and constructive advice to those who ask for it, and who have a good attitude.

Agreed, obviously there will always be toxic players within all tiers of skill in gaming, but a large majority of elite PvP players are actually very polite!

Probably because the majority of toxic PvPers filtered off after housing was introduced and the RP community they thrived on harassing had slipped into private instances where they couldn't intrude.

Legitimately, toxic PvPers are why ESO has no meaningful open world RP community to this day. Whether that's a good or bad thing I'll leave up to you, but they did that.

I’m sorry but your accusation that elite PvP players scared off open world roleplayers seems pretty baseless and frankly hard to believe. Mind explaining what you mean? Are you talking about roleplayers in PvP?

I recently posted about it, so I'll give you the abridged version. There used to be several cadres of PvPers who would intentionally hunt down RPers in overland, whenever they got bored. Once they found them, what they'd do is harass them by spamming ground lay AoEs, to generate as many particle effects as they could. This would result in players with lower system spec PCs to crash out. These were fairly significant chunks of players, as they were bringing in enough players to overload the particle system and start crashing player's clients. Sometimes even their own.

The height of this behavior would have been back in 2017.

Pickup RPing used to be pretty common in most inns across the map, these days, it's still pretty rare to see RPers in the wild. So they went from a community fixture to something you might see once or twice a month.

There were numerous threads back in the day, on these boards, complaining about their treatment, and the way ZOS completely failed to protect them from this harassment. This behavior went on for months; probably over a year, in fact.

So, yeah, that happened. It's been about five years. In the defense of the PvPers, it was always a much smaller group that was actually responsible for this than the RPers realized, the problem was the PvPers were very well coordinated.

By 2018, overland RPing was basically restricted to Riften, with most of the other maps being completely abandoned for pickup RP. If there are any RPers around who remember those days, they may be able to give you a more detailed timeline of events.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

jecks33 wrote: »

sbr32 wrote: »

How can I trust a game where the senior creative leadership team is not only out of touch with their player base, but openly and publicly antagonistic towards them?

Exactly this. Sometimes I feel like I'm an enemy for the devs, and it's not funny

You are dissapointed for so small problems - i even did not care - if i would not get nerfs each single update for last 3 years !!! )))

Gaebriel0410 · July 2022

starkerealm wrote: »

I recently posted about it, so I'll give you the abridged version. There used to be several cadres of PvPers who would intentionally hunt down RPers in overland, whenever they got bored. Once they found them, what they'd do is harass them by spamming ground lay AoEs, to generate as many particle effects as they could. This would result in players with lower system spec PCs to crash out. These were fairly significant chunks of players, as they were bringing in enough players to overload the particle system and start crashing player's clients. Sometimes even their own.

The height of this behavior would have been back in 2017.

Pickup RPing used to be pretty common in most inns across the map, these days, it's still pretty rare to see RPers in the wild. So they went from a community fixture to something you might see once or twice a month.

There were numerous threads back in the day, on these boards, complaining about their treatment, and the way ZOS completely failed to protect them from this harassment. This behavior went on for months; probably over a year, in fact.

So, yeah, that happened. It's been about five years. In the defense of the PvPers, it was always a much smaller group that was actually responsible for this than the RPers realized, the problem was the PvPers were very well coordinated.

By 2018, overland RPing was basically restricted to Riften, with most of the other maps being completely abandoned for pickup RP. If there are any RPers around who remember those days, they may be able to give you a more detailed timeline of events.

Was this on PC EU? I have been in the roleplay community ever since I started ESO back in 2014ish but I have legit never heard of this, let alone experienced it. I roleplay in the open world frequently, and I have been to many open world RP events.

If people did that it's pretty awful but I've never seen it nor heard of it. Though I do know there's more than a few roleplayers around who tend to think the world is against them and they're the eternal poor victims where everyone is out to ruin their day all the time, but you get those types in pretty much every community I guess. I am sure there's been a bunch of bored wannabe internet edgelords wanting to annoy RPers now and then, but those types usually go away after 30 secs when it becomes clear no one is gonna react to them.

As far as I have heard, the reason people RP less in public taverns nowadays is because everyone eventually got tired of Red Diamond on repeat. Though tavern RP was never something I did a lot, so I can't say for sure.

But in contrast, in my experience people running into us usually seem interested and ask questions about it. I haven't even gotten the classic tryhard "haha RP nerds" as far as I can remember, other players usually seem pretty respectful for what I've seen. I mean, I've even had players say sorry they accidentally ran through our group which is pretty damn polite. ESO has been more respectful and welcoming of roleplayers than any other MMO game I've seen, and I am not a new player.

So it seems a bit odd to blame this on the "evil toxic PvPers". Like, there's plenty of roleplayers who enjoy PvP themselves.

JanTanhide · July 2022

Pet wrote: »

RBAP28 wrote: »

Sure, people are going to leave, but a lot of those people will be back. Not because they agree with the changes, because ESO has no real competition, especially on console. For this reason companies can get away with offering less and less for the same amount of money and making wild game changing swings every update. And I'm sure Zos knows this.

Not true, other genres exist. You don't need to play an MMO after quitting an MMO.

Very true. I'm hopping back in to No Man's Sky. Also have one more ending to complete in Green Hell as well as The Forest.
Looking forward to Sons of the Forest due out this October.

ZOS's track record of going ahead with bad patches is legendary. They have only reverted two really bad changes on the PTS before going live that I can think of: Cast times on Shields and the recent idea of changing light and heavy attacks.

Elsonso · July 2022

JanTanhide wrote: »

Pet wrote: »

RBAP28 wrote: »

Sure, people are going to leave, but a lot of those people will be back. Not because they agree with the changes, because ESO has no real competition, especially on console. For this reason companies can get away with offering less and less for the same amount of money and making wild game changing swings every update. And I'm sure Zos knows this.

Not true, other genres exist. You don't need to play an MMO after quitting an MMO.

Very true. I'm hopping back in to No Man's Sky. Also have one more ending to complete in Green Hell as well as The Forest.
Looking forward to Sons of the Forest due out this October.

ZOS's track record of going ahead with bad patches is legendary. They have only reverted two really bad changes on the PTS before going live that I can think of: Cast times on Shields and the recent idea of changing light and heavy attacks.

Regarding NMS... wait a bit before loading up an existing save. Endurance has some bugs that cause stuff to be lost or deleted. Fairly sure HG will get these addressed quickly, so wait should not be too long.

There are a few studios that do things that get remembered and stories that get retold. I'm guessing that ZOS is going to be one of those studios.

JanTanhide · July 2022

Kusto wrote: »

No one's leaving. Some maybe temporarily, but will return once realize that they overreacted. Don't forget that half of the players in forums are console players and have no access to pts. PC players panicked also at first but many have calmed down after actually testing not just on dummy but also actual content. It's not as bad as you read from the patch notes. All content that you currently do you will be also able to do after the patch. I get that the notes freaked out alot of people but until you actually test the content you shouldn't spread the doom and gloom.

I've tested my builds on the PTS. Not fun at all. Many I know have left and have no intention of coming back. Same here. The game has progressively declined patch after patch. ZOS changing the game every 3 months has taken it's toll on us Vet players. Been here 8 years. 4 accounts and a ton of character builds. I've theory crafted dozens and dozens of builds over the years and enjoyed them immensely. With 33% and more loss to healing and damage and making DOTs and HOTs last 20 seconds or more and tick every 2 seconds is terrible game play. Gutting the classes has hurt immensely as well.

ZOS will go ahead with U35 patch if History is repeated. This is what they do.

Casdha · July 2022

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I recently posted about it, so I'll give you the abridged version. There used to be several cadres of PvPers who would intentionally hunt down RPers in overland, whenever they got bored. Once they found them, what they'd do is harass them by spamming ground lay AoEs, to generate as many particle effects as they could. This would result in players with lower system spec PCs to crash out. These were fairly significant chunks of players, as they were bringing in enough players to overload the particle system and start crashing player's clients. Sometimes even their own.

The height of this behavior would have been back in 2017.

Pickup RPing used to be pretty common in most inns across the map, these days, it's still pretty rare to see RPers in the wild. So they went from a community fixture to something you might see once or twice a month.

There were numerous threads back in the day, on these boards, complaining about their treatment, and the way ZOS completely failed to protect them from this harassment. This behavior went on for months; probably over a year, in fact.

So, yeah, that happened. It's been about five years. In the defense of the PvPers, it was always a much smaller group that was actually responsible for this than the RPers realized, the problem was the PvPers were very well coordinated.

By 2018, overland RPing was basically restricted to Riften, with most of the other maps being completely abandoned for pickup RP. If there are any RPers around who remember those days, they may be able to give you a more detailed timeline of events.

Was this on PC EU? I have been in the roleplay community ever since I started ESO back in 2014ish but I have legit never heard of this, let alone experienced it. I roleplay in the open world frequently, and I have been to many open world RP events.

If people did that it's pretty awful but I've never seen it nor heard of it. Though I do know there's more than a few roleplayers around who tend to think the world is against them and they're the eternal poor victims where everyone is out to ruin their day all the time, but you get those types in pretty much every community I guess. I am sure there's been a bunch of bored wannabe internet edgelords wanting to annoy RPers now and then, but those types usually go away after 30 secs when it becomes clear no one is gonna react to them.

As far as I have heard, the reason people RP less in public taverns nowadays is because everyone eventually got tired of Red Diamond on repeat. Though tavern RP was never something I did a lot, so I can't say for sure.

But in contrast, in my experience people running into us usually seem interested and ask questions about it. I haven't even gotten the classic tryhard "haha RP nerds" as far as I can remember, other players usually seem pretty respectful for what I've seen. I mean, I've even had players say sorry they accidentally ran through our group which is pretty damn polite. ESO has been more respectful and welcoming of roleplayers than any other MMO game I've seen, and I am not a new player.

So it seems a bit odd to blame this on the "evil toxic PvPers". Like, there's plenty of roleplayers who enjoy PvP themselves.

I'm not sure this what the poster was talking about but I remember a time when dueling was introduced there were folks that would run around and challenge everyone they saw. If you clicked the wrong button rather than starting let's say a trade with someone, rather than interacting with that person you inadvertently accepted an invite to a duel that you never intended to be in.

starkerealm · July 2022

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I recently posted about it, so I'll give you the abridged version. There used to be several cadres of PvPers who would intentionally hunt down RPers in overland, whenever they got bored. Once they found them, what they'd do is harass them by spamming ground lay AoEs, to generate as many particle effects as they could. This would result in players with lower system spec PCs to crash out. These were fairly significant chunks of players, as they were bringing in enough players to overload the particle system and start crashing player's clients. Sometimes even their own.

The height of this behavior would have been back in 2017.

Pickup RPing used to be pretty common in most inns across the map, these days, it's still pretty rare to see RPers in the wild. So they went from a community fixture to something you might see once or twice a month.

There were numerous threads back in the day, on these boards, complaining about their treatment, and the way ZOS completely failed to protect them from this harassment. This behavior went on for months; probably over a year, in fact.

So, yeah, that happened. It's been about five years. In the defense of the PvPers, it was always a much smaller group that was actually responsible for this than the RPers realized, the problem was the PvPers were very well coordinated.

By 2018, overland RPing was basically restricted to Riften, with most of the other maps being completely abandoned for pickup RP. If there are any RPers around who remember those days, they may be able to give you a more detailed timeline of events.

Was this on PC EU? I have been in the roleplay community ever since I started ESO back in 2014ish but I have legit never heard of this, let alone experienced it. I roleplay in the open world frequently, and I have been to many open world RP events.

If people did that it's pretty awful but I've never seen it nor heard of it. Though I do know there's more than a few roleplayers around who tend to think the world is against them and they're the eternal poor victims where everyone is out to ruin their day all the time, but you get those types in pretty much every community I guess. I am sure there's been a bunch of bored wannabe internet edgelords wanting to annoy RPers now and then, but those types usually go away after 30 secs when it becomes clear no one is gonna react to them.

As far as I have heard, the reason people RP less in public taverns nowadays is because everyone eventually got tired of Red Diamond on repeat. Though tavern RP was never something I did a lot, so I can't say for sure.

But in contrast, in my experience people running into us usually seem interested and ask questions about it. I haven't even gotten the classic tryhard "haha RP nerds" as far as I can remember, other players usually seem pretty respectful for what I've seen. I mean, I've even had players say sorry they accidentally ran through our group which is pretty damn polite. ESO has been more respectful and welcoming of roleplayers than any other MMO game I've seen, and I am not a new player.

So it seems a bit odd to blame this on the "evil toxic PvPers". Like, there's plenty of roleplayers who enjoy PvP themselves.

This was on PCNA. You're not wrong about there being RPers who are a bit hyper-defensive. However, int his case, there really was someone out to get them.

Also, in this case, I can corroborate that they were correct, as I actually knew one of the PvPers who engaged in this behavior, and they discussed it pretty freely in the discord of a trade guild we were both in.

However, in going back and searching the forums to be able to cite this, I realized two things. First, the behavior started earlier than I realized, with initial reports of players disrupting RPers with ability spam in taverns back in 2015. Second, that the people being harassed didn't realize (or weren't able to credibly claim) that their harassers were PvPers.

I can keep digging if you really want citation on this, and like I said, it's possible that there are errors in the timeline of events I posted (I didn't realize the first examples of ability spam harassment were back in 2014 or 2015, for instance.)

Belegnole · July 2022

starkerealm wrote: »

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I recently posted about it, so I'll give you the abridged version. There used to be several cadres of PvPers who would intentionally hunt down RPers in overland, whenever they got bored. Once they found them, what they'd do is harass them by spamming ground lay AoEs, to generate as many particle effects as they could. This would result in players with lower system spec PCs to crash out. These were fairly significant chunks of players, as they were bringing in enough players to overload the particle system and start crashing player's clients. Sometimes even their own.

The height of this behavior would have been back in 2017.

Pickup RPing used to be pretty common in most inns across the map, these days, it's still pretty rare to see RPers in the wild. So they went from a community fixture to something you might see once or twice a month.

There were numerous threads back in the day, on these boards, complaining about their treatment, and the way ZOS completely failed to protect them from this harassment. This behavior went on for months; probably over a year, in fact.

So, yeah, that happened. It's been about five years. In the defense of the PvPers, it was always a much smaller group that was actually responsible for this than the RPers realized, the problem was the PvPers were very well coordinated.

By 2018, overland RPing was basically restricted to Riften, with most of the other maps being completely abandoned for pickup RP. If there are any RPers around who remember those days, they may be able to give you a more detailed timeline of events.

Was this on PC EU? I have been in the roleplay community ever since I started ESO back in 2014ish but I have legit never heard of this, let alone experienced it. I roleplay in the open world frequently, and I have been to many open world RP events.

If people did that it's pretty awful but I've never seen it nor heard of it. Though I do know there's more than a few roleplayers around who tend to think the world is against them and they're the eternal poor victims where everyone is out to ruin their day all the time, but you get those types in pretty much every community I guess. I am sure there's been a bunch of bored wannabe internet edgelords wanting to annoy RPers now and then, but those types usually go away after 30 secs when it becomes clear no one is gonna react to them.

As far as I have heard, the reason people RP less in public taverns nowadays is because everyone eventually got tired of Red Diamond on repeat. Though tavern RP was never something I did a lot, so I can't say for sure.

But in contrast, in my experience people running into us usually seem interested and ask questions about it. I haven't even gotten the classic tryhard "haha RP nerds" as far as I can remember, other players usually seem pretty respectful for what I've seen. I mean, I've even had players say sorry they accidentally ran through our group which is pretty damn polite. ESO has been more respectful and welcoming of roleplayers than any other MMO game I've seen, and I am not a new player.

So it seems a bit odd to blame this on the "evil toxic PvPers". Like, there's plenty of roleplayers who enjoy PvP themselves.

This was on PCNA. You're not wrong about there being RPers who are a bit hyper-defensive. However, int his case, there really was someone out to get them.

Also, in this case, I can corroborate that they were correct, as I actually knew one of the PvPers who engaged in this behavior, and they discussed it pretty freely in the discord of a trade guild we were both in.

However, in going back and searching the forums to be able to cite this, I realized two things. First, the behavior started earlier than I realized, with initial reports of players disrupting RPers with ability spam in taverns back in 2015. Second, that the people being harassed didn't realize (or weren't able to credibly claim) that their harassers were PvPers.

I can keep digging if you really want citation on this, and like I said, it's possible that there are errors in the timeline of events I posted (I didn't realize the first examples of ability spam harassment were back in 2014 or 2015, for instance.)

I remember this happening. While I am not a RPer in this game, I used to have friends who were. There were posts in the forums about it and talk in chat. You could also find the groups harassing the RPers of you knew where they were hanging out.