Stop the outrage: U35 combat changes are good*

Faltasë · July 2022

I really don't get the love for the philosophy of thinking that power creep is a bad thing. It's a natural progression of online or really any ongoing game system(even in card games). Power creep is not a bad thing, and never particularly will be except for when devs start thinking that it is. (ZoS is guilty of hating the high dpsers, and that is also not healthy)

So what if old content gets easier? Who gives an ornaug, you literally can't reach newer content until you get past older content anyway so it's a natural progression for players to play through older content to get experience and then hit the new content when they get experienced. That's how games online have always been and how they always will be and ZoS is just mad because they're bad at combat design.

Ill say it again because I still am vehemently opposed to their crap combat design philosophy NERFING TOP END DPS PLAYERS BECAUSE THEY MADE A 140K PARSE IS ABSURD AND HARMS THE LOW END PLAYERS AS WELL AS MOST OF THE CONTENT FOR ALL PLAYSTYLES.

Balancing the game off of what the 1% does is stupid and most MMOs or online games that do this have the game die for a reason. Not to mention the fact that most players, and i mean most, cant reach 100k dps and these 100k parses are just showing the point that it is extremely rare for the average player to hit 100k. Also it is a parse dummy, and i guarantee people wont be getting 100k in trials when push comes to shove.

Also, I have quit the game. Im here looking at the fallout of this absurdity. I cancelled my subscription.

Alot of the reason im mad also comes from the terrible changes to classes, especially my new main which was Warden. They literally have just made Warden a useless DPS class when U34 made them pretty good.

This change is bad. It will continue to be bad.

MidniteOwl1913 · July 2022

starkerealm wrote: »

xgoku1 wrote: »

[

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

competence cant change the fact that if they were using a heavy attack build for accessibility reasons, that it is going to do 50% less dmg next update, how does that improve their "average dps"?

Can't this be fixed by changing their build?

In some cases, no.

Heavy attack builds have become very popular among older members of the community and those with physical impairments, specifically because it allowed them to meaningfully participate in content that would otherwise be closed to them.

Part of the popularity of Oakensoul can also be attributed to this group.

These are players who, quite literally, do not have the option to play a more conventional build, and ZOS has decided to slam the door on them, and their hands.

Yes, I don't like it and to be frank, I had expected better of them (a mistake I won't repeat), but here we are.

xSINx · July 2022

Just leave here

https://youtu.be/4d2vTKgFbX4

WinterHeart626 · July 2022

I’ve been happily chugging along with my 37k dps nightblade, and you’re saying that reducing MY dps by 20-30% is a GOOD thing? Yeah? Hooray for you if you think so.
I think what’s going to happen is the rare veteran trial training runs the guild I’m with runs are going to have a few more requirements for those who want to learn, or fewer learning spots (currently it’s 1/1/4 exp tank, heals and dps, and the same for learners).
Veteran dungeons that myself and a few others have been slowly working towards no death clears/ speed runs, hardmode? Guess I’ll have to sit down, acknowledge the fact that I’m just a dirty casual that isn’t going to be suited for vet content anymore.

To those who applaud the 35 update, congratulations, you’re seeing players who just barely make the cut, get relegated to not making the cut.

twinkles21 · July 2022

xgoku1 wrote: »

lordspyder wrote: »

I am disabled and have hand mobility issues. My DPS went from 30k to 15k. I'm now going to be locked into only doing overland content now. But I'm glad you think these changes are good. I hate them.

On what class? Can you please post your parse?

Why would you think this is ok to say?

As if @lordspyder 's irl physical disability can simply be fixed by switching classes and being dps mentored by another?

For that matter, in a laundry list of forum rules, why is ZOS allowing albeism?

Let me put this plainly. People like myself who barely pull 30k, with no physical disabilities in real life can improve their dps by switching classes and being mentored by another. For players with disabilities or mobility issues, it is not that simple and could very likely be not possible. This update is a slap in the face to the accessibility mode they instituted previous.

pklemming · July 2022

xSINx wrote: »

Just leave here
https://youtu.be/4d2vTKgFbX4

That was a nicely made video.

EozZoe1989 · July 2022

yes people .. are solo people and there is mostly them in the forms.. there is not alot multiplayer people and it is both a solo and multiplayer game.. the thing is thou people are trying control the solo part of the game and not make it fun for the muliplayer people.
the thing is if wanna play online have do some muliplayer stuff too its not just about solo.. lol

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

The skills that lose power with leveling, tons of bugs, lose of damage, ninja fixes - and anihilations of tons not meta builds.

"Such a good changes"

Holycannoli · July 2022

xSINx wrote: »

Just leave here
https://youtu.be/4d2vTKgFbX4

So classic!

And tagging so I can find it later lol.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

Holycannoli wrote: »

xSINx wrote: »

Just leave here
https://youtu.be/4d2vTKgFbX4

So classic!

And tagging so I can find it later lol.

TY, cool video )))

EozZoe1989 · July 2022

does not matter

yes people .. are solo people and there is mostly them in the forms.. there is not alot multiplayer people and it is both a solo and multiplayer game.. the thing is thou people are trying control the solo part of the game and not make it fun for the muliplayer people.
the thing is if wanna play online have do some muliplayer stuff too its not just about solo.. lol

GetAgrippa · July 2022

The changes to Wardens and Scorch specifically are not "good." The kneecapping of Sorcs is not "good." The complete destruction of DK identity isn't "good." So no, these changes are not "good."

They're terrible.

ZOS_Icy · July 2022

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back-and-forth and non-constructive posts from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

JustAGoodPlayer · July 2022

DK makes ... and throw it !!!

It is his identity now, he throughs own ... .

Mud ball throwing is not ok, but throwing ... self produced mud as a skill is ok ... understand !

At least remove first part of a skill, or better remove it completely, and make this morph for a healer. And for second morph add stam whip people ask you for years !!! I do not need and care about it, it can be with stager too ! Rework wings to usefull skill !

Nope, we better breake templars an dual veild spammable ... .

Better to no updates, yes it will be disdapointment, but not such big as this !

You have tons of bugs - buged sets, that make PVP unplayable - healers set, when you heal in them enemy skills stop press - crosheal bug !!!

No. We better do new balance !

How can you do new balance if even if old balance buttons do not normally press !!! Fix it first, a lot of problems just dissapear ! Because with out lags Dark Convergenca and a lot of sets even will not be a problem.

Nooo it us to simple. We just make it a hard way !

And breake a target dummy ! For 3 month, than we see people see it by addon, so we buff it on PTS, to make it harder to compare damage !

But even so my DPS falls 1.5 times !

It is how love to HA builds looks like ? It is healthy for the game ???

Deanlolz · July 2022

xgoku1 wrote: »

GreatGildersleeve wrote: »

Do the changes feel fun?

I mean, fun is a subjective thing, but I think the new combat style will be great for doing content like Vateshran, Maelstrom, pretty much all endgame content where a lot of things are happening at the same time. I'm focusing less on timers, what bar I'm on, DoT upkeep, etc. and actually focusing on things happening in the arena

Yes, the trick is to being good at that type of content on veteran is being aware of all of those things at the same time. Some people enjoy that type of challenge. If you do not, play it on normal where things are much more forgiving. If you feel that you somehow deserve that content to be made accessible to you on Veteran -- at the expense of others-- consider that many people do not agree with that perspective and are giving you some of the pushback you're receiving now.

RNGeeze · July 2022

This won’t slow the top guys down much while making arenas miserable for mid to low tier players. Deltia ran through it with ease still because he knows the place very well. Good luck to anyone average or worse with their class going into these places significantly underpowered.

Hack had a overland world boss comparison on pts and it was a full 2 minutes longer than on live. The fights are not magically more fun now that they will take longer so it just feels like a means to curb efficient farming of gear for collections which oddly will only hurt the new players these changes are aimed to help.

Valion · July 2022

xgoku1 wrote: »

DPS nerfs are absolutely necessary in this game because the ceiling is ridiculous in 2022.

Thank you SO much for this thought out comment.
I really don't like the attitude many of the criticizing people are presenting:
Self-pity for a slight decrease in their damage output.
Hitting everybody, notabene. As if anything has dramatically changed in the way this game is played!
And as if THEY, individually, were the only ones to lose a bit of their "power"...
It is plainright ridiculous how people reacted thus far.

It is not the change, but the inability of modern day people to go along with changes after all that provoked the upstir.
"Higher faster further" is not a direction, but mere disorientation if understood like this.

GetAgrippa · July 2022

Maybe some people just don't want to spam their spammable 20 times in a row. Maybe it's not an "inability to change" but an inability to have fun while mindlessly spamming one button when there used to be fun and dynamic gameplay.

Moonsorrow · July 2022

Game uninstalled and ESO+ cancelled.

It is a good thing there are still a few other MMO games that respect the time of the player.

Who actually make the game for the players to have fun and have a feeling of progression, not just changes that seem like a darts board of random nerfs was used again several years in a row without a clear vision. Same old back and forth nerfs and buffs gonna be clearly what is up until the next Chapter.

Who even wanna play like this and spend their time on a game that treats their customers this way in 2022?

Pretty much the only "content" for pvp player especially this game has are the nerfs & buff cycle that gives illusion of it. LMOA

siddique · July 2022

Valion wrote: »

xgoku1 wrote: »

DPS nerfs are absolutely necessary in this game because the ceiling is ridiculous in 2022.

Thank you SO much for this thought out comment.
I really don't like the attitude many of the criticizing people are presenting:
Self-pity for a slight decrease in their damage output.
Hitting everybody, notabene. As if anything has dramatically changed in the way this game is played!
And as if THEY, individually, were the only ones to lose a bit of their "power"...
It is plainright ridiculous how people reacted thus far.

It is not the change, but the inability of modern day people to go along with changes after all that provoked the upstir.
"Higher faster further" is not a direction, but mere disorientation if understood like this.

Incorrect. A dps hitting 130k+ on live who is now pushed to 90k-100k will still complete stuff. But the midtier or casuals, who were hitting 75k-90k on live will now be hitting 50k-75k, and will find it next to impossible to clear even the recent hardmode fights. The top tier will remain the top tier. If they still play post patch that is.

imno007b14_ESO · July 2022

I'm not gonna get into this debate except to say that if you dislike these changes as much as I do, vote with your wallet. The bottom line is obviously what's most important to them, so hit them where it hurts. I cancelled my sub yesterday.

Matteo11 · July 2022

I just don't get how someone can passionately defend these changes. Its like seeing the yard on fire and saying 'its fine, it will keep us warm'

I guess some people really like this 2 yr cycle! Get a new Xpac with less features than the last--> Next patch makes sweeping, brutal, senseless nerfs. 2 patches later it nerfs all the sets ---> rinse repeat.

This game is going to atrophy and fall apart while we talk about how the "top guys" can still parse.

siddique · July 2022

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not gonna get into this debate except to say that if you dislike these changes as much as I do, vote with your wallet. The bottom line is obviously what's most important to them, so hit them where it hurts. I cancelled my sub yesterday.

So did I.

shadyjane62 · July 2022

siddique wrote: »

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not gonna get into this debate except to say that if you dislike these changes as much as I do, vote with your wallet. The bottom line is obviously what's most important to them, so hit them where it hurts. I cancelled my sub yesterday.

So did I.

I cancelled at the AWA but if I could cancel again I would. As it is I just making low level alts 16 of them and doing crafting for my remaining time.

imno007b14_ESO · July 2022

Here's pretty brief vid covering some of the changes, not a lot of the class specific nerfs, just an overview of the general dps experience one can expect after the nerfs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwAimsO1gVE

Not all doom and gloom, but I think most long time players who do ANY kind of end game content will agree that it doesn't look like a lot of fun.

adamsmith42 · July 2022

xgoku1 wrote: »

I highly doubt anyone threatening to leave ESO will actually leave. Just saying, threatening to quit MMOs is as old as MMOs themselves.

As a mid teir player (~75k) just getting into vet trials, not only will this kill my DPS to the point where I will no longer be able to clear content I just spent the last 2 months getting through, but BOTH of the leads for my 2 prog groups have ALREADY left the game based on this PTS

DUTCH_REAPER · July 2022

Well. Looks like I will download pts again and judge for myself. The comments here are way to back and forth.

Iselin · July 2022

ZOS_Icy wrote: »

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back-and-forth and non-constructive posts from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

The title of the thread is itself an invitation to go "back and forth" by saying "stop the outrage" is it not?

How about editing that?

morrowjen · July 2022

Holycannoli wrote: »

The endgame community has been asking for the average and casual player to be nerfed out of vet and endgame content?

Good to know.

Yeah I really can't make it past that comment by OP. Endgame wants nothing to do with these nerfs.

MidniteOwl1913 · July 2022

It's not just damage that's getting nerfed. It's healing, resource management, ranged attacks, and class abilities. These nerfs touch just about all aspects of play.