code65536's post is pretty cogent and lays down why this patch is in my best Augur of the Obscure voice what we call in the game-hopping community a very bad idea code.

Given the fact that is put rather eloquently and it comes from someone that has proven through their contributions to know what they are talking about I have a glimmer of hope that it might get through egos and other foibles of the human condition and make a difference.

Next PTS patch will tell.

Is a crapshoot, we are talking about getting through to the person who thought the MA weapon debacle was a great idea and stood firmly behind it, or that gutting Mist Form was a sensible and measured response to the vRG HM conundrum just to mention a couple, but when presented with hopelessness... I don't know, *I want to believe*.

I thought this was an announcement that Chad Kroeger was now a dev on ESO.

Sad now.

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'd trade it all for cast times on shields right now. This is the new leader of all-time bad update ideas.

They found other ways to delete Sorcs form PvP. Gonna have to trade it for the single target silence on Incap.

Papaharris2 wrote: »

I'm not getting into the changes, but honestly your graph shows less than 300 people responded out of how many millions that play the game? Combine that graph with the skinny cheeks one above and it's still less than 2000 people out of millions, not exactly a consensus.

How many people engage with the forums or the PTS?

Yeah sure it's not consensus but we're trying to make it not get to the millions of players so there's not a huge issue then.

Papaharris2 wrote: »

I'm not getting into the changes, but honestly your graph shows less than 300 people responded out of how many millions that play the game? Combine that graph with the skinny cheeks one above and it's still less than 2000 people out of millions, not exactly a consensus.

You understand how statistics work right? Sample size and all that? Yes, those are two small samples which even added together are probably what, 1% of the active player base? But if you can pretty safely extend that to the rest of the player base, and here’s the rub, 19 times out of 20. Sure, the other 99% might love the changes but it’s highly unlikely.

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Papaharris2 wrote: »

I'm not getting into the changes, but honestly your graph shows less than 300 people responded out of how many millions that play the game? Combine that graph with the skinny cheeks one above and it's still less than 2000 people out of millions, not exactly a consensus.

There's been polls around in different parts of the ESO community as well. Let's call this a case study, and say this is example number 1. In a case study, you're going to repeat your hypothesis multiple times under different conditions to see if it was correct. In the forums, there were two polls that I saw: mine (this one), and another one under a similar thread. Both had similar results. There's skinny cheek's results from youtube, which was posted in this forum by someone, which also had similar results, and one posted on reddit, which also had similar results. It's not that many examples for a case study, but all the results line up to be about 80% dislike, 12% mixed/other, and 8% like. If the polls continued in different places with different groups of people that play this game, I'm sure the trend would continue, and result in similar graphs at least 90% of the time.

To add onto this, SkinnyCheeks' has had the largest response base I've seen so far, at 1.4. Technically, you can't just staple survey data like this together and calculate that way, because of the potential risk for duplicate data points (which is to say, repeat responders.)

However, at 1.4k, the margin of error should be around 4.4 or 4.5% (I legit don't remember off hand, it might be slightly higher.) This means that, it's reasonable to assume the disapproval rate for these changes is somewhere between 69% and 79%.

(It's likely not quite the 80% you were asking for.)

What the data lacks is any kind of intensity reading. So, it can't distinguish between people who don't like that the shields bug was fixed, and people who have already terminated their subscription and quit the game over this hitting the PTS in the first place.

On the informal krill sample of responses on these boards and Reddit, I would be willing to bet that the dislike of this patch is extremely intense. (Simply based on the sheer volume of responses and how much work the moderators have had to put in to keep this pot from boiling over.) In contrast, support has been extremely limited, and tepid at best.

I don't think you're right about 80%, but it would not surprise me if 3:5 players feel strongly enough about this to walk away from the game if it goes live.

Even the graph shows a middle finger to those changes....

Sluggy wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Papaharris2 wrote: »

I'm not getting into the changes, but honestly your graph shows less than 300 people responded out of how many millions that play the game? Combine that graph with the skinny cheeks one above and it's still less than 2000 people out of millions, not exactly a consensus.

How many people engage with the forums or the PTS?

Yeah sure it's not consensus but we're trying to make it not get to the millions of players so there's not a huge issue then.

This is the truth. I can't count the number of times patch day has hit and the masses are completely and utterly shocked by what has happened. Sometimes they find pleasant surprises. Often lately they've been angry and upset. It's never once been a surprise to me to see their reactions.

And this one is definitely not going to be a pleasant surprise. Especially if you've taken a low DPS character into overland. We're going to see a lot of players who could kill things, suddenly asking, "why do all my abilities suddenly suck?"

The Skinny Cheeks poll is up to 2.1k votes and has ticked up slightly to 75% "No".

Anything less than a complete rollback next week is unacceptable.

VaranisArano wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

code65536's post is pretty cogent and lays down why this patch is in my best Augur of the Obscure voice what we call in the game-hopping community a very bad idea code.

Given the fact that is put rather eloquently and it comes from someone that has proven through their contributions to know what they are talking about I have a glimmer of hope that it might get through egos and other foibles of the human condition and make a difference.

Next PTS patch will tell.

Is a crapshoot, we are talking about getting through to the person who thought the MA weapon debacle was a great idea and stood firmly behind it, or that gutting Mist Form was a sensible and measured response to the vRG HM conundrum just to mention a couple, but when presented with hopelessness... I don't know, *I want to believe*.

I suggest waiting until the 3rd week of PTS. 2nd week is usually small fixes and adjustments that didn't make it into the first week, then everyone gripes because the big changes haven't happened yet.

Ordinarily, I'd agree. But if there's no walkback after the boards have been on fire for a week, it's probably a sign that we won't get meaningful adjustments.

Last PTS the Warden Community gave a ton of feedback Condemning the direction that Zos was pushing Warden in, nothing happened, everything went live, now here we are in an even worse place because Zos didn't listen to feedback. Or they did but warped it so badly to fit into what they wanted to do that it wasn't our feedback anymore. The only real feedback that made it through unscathed was Wings getting Snare Immunity, but with all the rest of the awful changes, it's a moot point.