Look at this Graph

Mr_Stach

James-Wayne wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Last PTS the Warden Community gave a ton of feedback Condemning the direction that Zos was pushing Warden in, nothing happened, everything went live, now here we are in an even worse place because Zos didn't listen to feedback. Or they did but warped it so badly to fit into what they wanted to do that it wasn't our feedback anymore. The only real feedback that made it through unscathed was Wings getting Snare Immunity, but with all the rest of the awful changes, it's a moot point.

Warden community compared to the entire community is a little different thou

Yeah sure, I'm hoping this time it's a different ending but we've done this song and dance before. I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of what we see goes live.

merpins

Mr_Stach wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Last PTS the Warden Community gave a ton of feedback Condemning the direction that Zos was pushing Warden in, nothing happened, everything went live, now here we are in an even worse place because Zos didn't listen to feedback. Or they did but warped it so badly to fit into what they wanted to do that it wasn't our feedback anymore. The only real feedback that made it through unscathed was Wings getting Snare Immunity, but with all the rest of the awful changes, it's a moot point.

Warden community compared to the entire community is a little different thou

Yeah sure, I'm hoping this time it's a different ending but we've done this song and dance before. I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of what we see goes live.

Sometimes they make changes or even change their mind based on the backlash. I don't think it's likely though, and if it does go through, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of unhappy people that leave the game, most of whom are end game players.

lordspyder

The big issue is ZOS has been pushing the narrative that this is just a nerf to LA weaving. If you go on the Facebook groups all the mid-range players are cheering this patch. None of them have any clue what's coming and just push back when you try to explain to them that they are going to be hurt as well. I got muted on Elder Scrolls Online Players because I got into an argument with one of the admins trying to tell them that mid-range DPS got hit for almost 50% of their damage. This is going to come as a very rude wake up when it goes live.

prof_doom

lordspyder wrote: »

The big issue is ZOS has been pushing the narrative that this is just a nerf to LA weaving. If you go on the Facebook groups all the mid-range players are cheering this patch. None of them have any clue what's coming and just push back when you try to explain to them that they are going to be hurt as well. I got muted on Elder Scrolls Online Players because I got into an argument with one of the admins trying to tell them that mid-range DPS got hit for almost 50% of their damage. This is going to come as a very rude wake up when it goes live.

I'd like to think maybe they'll listen to us next time after they see how bad it is, but we all know they won't.

Either that, or we actually get listened to, the nerfs get rolled back before it goes live, and then they'll be all like "see, we told you that you were overreacting", when in reality our "overreaction" was the only thing that saved the game.

Pevey

lordspyder wrote: »

The big issue is ZOS has been pushing the narrative that this is just a nerf to LA weaving. If you go on the Facebook groups all the mid-range players are cheering this patch. None of them have any clue what's coming and just push back when you try to explain to them that they are going to be hurt as well. I got muted on Elder Scrolls Online Players because I got into an argument with one of the admins trying to tell them that mid-range DPS got hit for almost 50% of their damage. This is going to come as a very rude wake up when it goes live.

Yeah, if Zos thinks there is a backlash now, just wait until this goes live. It's going to be a riot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d2vTKgFbX4&t=55s

shadyjane62

They think the backlash is bad now, obvious from vigorous moderation. Just wait till the entire player base that doesn't go on the forums get a look at what's happened to their chars.

ApoAlaia

lordspyder wrote: »

The big issue is ZOS has been pushing the narrative that this is just a nerf to LA weaving. If you go on the Facebook groups all the mid-range players are cheering this patch. None of them have any clue what's coming and just push back when you try to explain to them that they are going to be hurt as well. I got muted on Elder Scrolls Online Players because I got into an argument with one of the admins trying to tell them that mid-range DPS got hit for almost 50% of their damage. This is going to come as a very rude wake up when it goes live.

They are.

I cannot say everyone because someone, somewhere, will actually welcome these changes, however the majority of people that going just by what the 'official channels' have said about the upcoming changes are looking forward to them are in for shock.

Necrotech_Master

i was expecting the change to light and heavy attacks, if that was the only change that would have been fine

i also would have been fine if they extended dot durations to 15-20 sec without completely nerfing them in the process

the rest of the class changes were just the punch in the nads on top of the dot/hot nerfs

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Cadbury wrote: »

I thought this was an announcement that Chad Kroeger was now a dev on ESO.

I don't want ESO to become the Nickelback of MMO's but this patch is starting to feel like it. Hopefully it's a one-time thing.

AkiraStar01

Pevey wrote: »

It's true most players have no idea what is coming. They are in for a rude awakening.

But trust that ZOS has a plan.

1. Tell mid-tier players you are adjusting combat in a way that will benefit them.
2. Release patch
3. Mid-tier players attempt vet dungeon, maybe even one they have done successfully before.
4. Healer can't keep tank alive, DPS can't burn the boss, group fails.
5. ...
6. Profit?

Trust

I got together with my group that runs vet dlc dungeons the last couple days on the PTS server. We're not great but we comfortably pass most every one we try. Told them they were gonna get shocked by their dummy parse and what was gonna happen in the same dungeons we've been farming on the live server. We all parse around 60-70k on the live server...all 4 of us lost between 30-35k on the PTS...so basically 50% of our damage. Then they wanted to go to a dungeon we've been farming...the boss laughed at us and said go back to the kiddie table.

merpins

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i was expecting the change to light and heavy attacks, if that was the only change that would have been fine

i also would have been fine if they extended dot durations to 15-20 sec without completely nerfing them in the process

the rest of the class changes were just the punch in the nads on top of the dot/hot nerfs

Extended dot durations could have been fine, but they shouldn't make all dots have extended durations. Variety lets you play how you want... You know, the modo of ESO.

Necrotech_Master

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i was expecting the change to light and heavy attacks, if that was the only change that would have been fine

i also would have been fine if they extended dot durations to 15-20 sec without completely nerfing them in the process

the rest of the class changes were just the punch in the nads on top of the dot/hot nerfs

Extended dot durations could have been fine, but they shouldn't make all dots have extended durations. Variety lets you play how you want... You know, the modo of ESO.

im not saying that all dots need to have the same standard duration, but if they wanted to make it easier for someone to manage then add +5 sec on all existing dots and call it a day without gutting them like they are doing

i dont know what they could have done, but it literally could have been almost anything but what they are planning to do to make them easier to manage

merpins

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i was expecting the change to light and heavy attacks, if that was the only change that would have been fine

i also would have been fine if they extended dot durations to 15-20 sec without completely nerfing them in the process

the rest of the class changes were just the punch in the nads on top of the dot/hot nerfs

Extended dot durations could have been fine, but they shouldn't make all dots have extended durations. Variety lets you play how you want... You know, the modo of ESO.

im not saying that all dots need to have the same standard duration, but if they wanted to make it easier for someone to manage then add +5 sec on all existing dots and call it a day without gutting them like they are doing

i dont know what they could have done, but it literally could have been almost anything but what they are planning to do to make them easier to manage

They could have just made more longer dots without nerfing the damage on them, that way the damage output is the same. It just lasts longer. I mean it makes sense right? Why increase the duration and decrease the damage, when there are other dots that just deal more damage in that timeframe. That's why they made every dot last longer, tick at 2 seconds, and deal less damage. It's because they knew by doing that treatment to only a few skills, those skills would immediately die as no one would use them.

AinSoph

Well what kind of company promotes "Play how you want" while having combat standards that aren't even consistent?

starkerealm

AinSoph wrote: »

Well what kind of company promotes "Play how you want" while having combat standards that aren't even consistent?

Ooh, ooh, wait, I know this one... it's Bungle? *pulls off the ghost mask* Old man ZOS, again?

merpins

starkerealm wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

Well what kind of company promotes "Play how you want" while having combat standards that aren't even consistent?

Ooh, ooh, wait, I know this one... it's Bungle? *pulls off the ghost mask* Old man ZOS, again?

Remember when they recently nerfed Mist Form by making it so you just can't use it at all in PVE, because players were "not using it as intended" in vet dungeons and trials? Play how you want? Right.

"Welcome to ESO comrade! Play how we want." - ZoS, probably.

starkerealm

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

AinSoph wrote: »

Well what kind of company promotes "Play how you want" while having combat standards that aren't even consistent?

Ooh, ooh, wait, I know this one... it's Bungle? *pulls off the ghost mask* Old man ZOS, again?

Remember when they recently nerfed Mist Form by making it so you just can't use it at all in PVE, because players were "not using it as intended" in vet dungeons and trials? Play how you want? Right.

"Welcome to ESO comrade! Play how we want." - ZoS, probably.

I'm still irked about that.

Also, fun trivia, this patch basically breaks the encounter people were using Mistform in, so that it's now impossible to complete without the pre-nerf Mistform. GG guys.

Varana

lordspyder wrote: »

The big issue is ZOS has been pushing the narrative that this is just a nerf to LA weaving.

They've been trying to do this again and again: gaslighting their player base.
They take one particular aspect that they claim the patch will achieve (doesn't matter whether it will actually do that), and which is likely to garner support. And they push that heavily before the patch drops.
Which means all the other stuff that they do in that patch, or the consequences of how they implement their "solution", manages to fly under the radar, or is drowned out by the praise for that particular aspect that they claim.

Necrotech_Master

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i was expecting the change to light and heavy attacks, if that was the only change that would have been fine

i also would have been fine if they extended dot durations to 15-20 sec without completely nerfing them in the process

the rest of the class changes were just the punch in the nads on top of the dot/hot nerfs

Extended dot durations could have been fine, but they shouldn't make all dots have extended durations. Variety lets you play how you want... You know, the modo of ESO.

im not saying that all dots need to have the same standard duration, but if they wanted to make it easier for someone to manage then add +5 sec on all existing dots and call it a day without gutting them like they are doing

i dont know what they could have done, but it literally could have been almost anything but what they are planning to do to make them easier to manage

They could have just made more longer dots without nerfing the damage on them, that way the damage output is the same. It just lasts longer. I mean it makes sense right? Why increase the duration and decrease the damage, when there are other dots that just deal more damage in that timeframe. That's why they made every dot last longer, tick at 2 seconds, and deal less damage. It's because they knew by doing that treatment to only a few skills, those skills would immediately die as no one would use them.

i think its more them assuming that the dot is going to be useful for the entire duration, when in reality the dot is only useful for about half of the duration unless its a "parse-friendly" boss that doesnt move around much

they are more concerned about the total dmg a dot does vs the actual dps of the dot, even though the dps of the dot is what really matters, it could be a 3 sec dot, but if it does 5000 dps per tick, it would be used as long as the cooldown on the proc was not much longer or it could be kept up constantly

merpins

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i was expecting the change to light and heavy attacks, if that was the only change that would have been fine

i also would have been fine if they extended dot durations to 15-20 sec without completely nerfing them in the process

the rest of the class changes were just the punch in the nads on top of the dot/hot nerfs

Extended dot durations could have been fine, but they shouldn't make all dots have extended durations. Variety lets you play how you want... You know, the modo of ESO.

im not saying that all dots need to have the same standard duration, but if they wanted to make it easier for someone to manage then add +5 sec on all existing dots and call it a day without gutting them like they are doing

i dont know what they could have done, but it literally could have been almost anything but what they are planning to do to make them easier to manage

They could have just made more longer dots without nerfing the damage on them, that way the damage output is the same. It just lasts longer. I mean it makes sense right? Why increase the duration and decrease the damage, when there are other dots that just deal more damage in that timeframe. That's why they made every dot last longer, tick at 2 seconds, and deal less damage. It's because they knew by doing that treatment to only a few skills, those skills would immediately die as no one would use them.

i think its more them assuming that the dot is going to be useful for the entire duration, when in reality the dot is only useful for about half of the duration unless its a "parse-friendly" boss that doesnt move around much

they are more concerned about the total dmg a dot does vs the actual dps of the dot, even though the dps of the dot is what really matters, it could be a 3 sec dot, but if it does 5000 dps per tick, it would be used as long as the cooldown on the proc was not much longer or it could be kept up constantly

At this point, the Dev Team should know their own game. They should know that AOE dots are only really effective for the first 4-7 seconds against bosses, and 2-5 seconds in PVP.

starkerealm

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i was expecting the change to light and heavy attacks, if that was the only change that would have been fine

i also would have been fine if they extended dot durations to 15-20 sec without completely nerfing them in the process

the rest of the class changes were just the punch in the nads on top of the dot/hot nerfs

Extended dot durations could have been fine, but they shouldn't make all dots have extended durations. Variety lets you play how you want... You know, the modo of ESO.

im not saying that all dots need to have the same standard duration, but if they wanted to make it easier for someone to manage then add +5 sec on all existing dots and call it a day without gutting them like they are doing

i dont know what they could have done, but it literally could have been almost anything but what they are planning to do to make them easier to manage

They could have just made more longer dots without nerfing the damage on them, that way the damage output is the same. It just lasts longer. I mean it makes sense right? Why increase the duration and decrease the damage, when there are other dots that just deal more damage in that timeframe. That's why they made every dot last longer, tick at 2 seconds, and deal less damage. It's because they knew by doing that treatment to only a few skills, those skills would immediately die as no one would use them.

i think its more them assuming that the dot is going to be useful for the entire duration, when in reality the dot is only useful for about half of the duration unless its a "parse-friendly" boss that doesnt move around much

they are more concerned about the total dmg a dot does vs the actual dps of the dot, even though the dps of the dot is what really matters, it could be a 3 sec dot, but if it does 5000 dps per tick, it would be used as long as the cooldown on the proc was not much longer or it could be kept up constantly

At this point, the Dev Team should know their own game. They should know that AOE dots are only really effective for the first 4-7 seconds against bosses, and 2-5 seconds in PVP.

I mean, given how much the Combat team has been reinveting the wheel over the last four years, it's not surprising that even the developers are a bit shaky on how the game works, now.

merpins

Well they addressed a little bit of what we wanted, but it's not the full revert we were looking for. Still upset about Jabs, and say goodbye to Oakensoul as that is going to be garbage next patch without some TLC, and this was the patch for said TLC. To everyone who suffered through murkmire, your effort is in vain.