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On Mythics and Reconstruction
richo262
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Some things I've noticed with Mythics.
1) Probably too easy to reconstruct initially
2) Cannot deconstruct to get transmutes back
3) There is no incentive to use antiq more than once, there should at least be some benefit to completing the codec.
I think it would probably be ideal to treat the codecs in a similar fashion to how collecting more set items = cheaper cost. Collect 5 codecs = 50, 10 codecs = 25, all 15 = free. If the goal is to get the cost of Transmuting the item to 0, it does not matter that it cannot be deconstructed. This would incentivise people to collect all 15 codecs. Another thing that could happen from this is at 15 codecs, the item is deemed collected and the leads no longer drop.
If that was in place it the three points would become
1) Initially quite costly to reconstruct compare to other items, but codecs can reduce the reconstruction cost to 0.
2) Cannot deconstruct, but doesn't matter as the most you'll get back is 0 because the cheapest cost of reconstruction is 0.
3) You are incentivised to collect all 15 codecs to reduce the reconstruction cost to 0.
4) No longer spammed with Mythic leads after completing all 15. The Mythic is deemed completed. Fully researched and understood, therefore reconstruction should become easier, the best minds in Tamriel have been studying what you've found. It also doesn't make sense that such a unique item can be found so many times. It is unique, one of a kind (at least to you, being account bound). They shouldn't rain from the sky, there should be some sort of finality to their procurement.
I'll add. It is very unlikely that a player that has access to all the required lead locations doesn't also have access to a transmute station via either CWC, Guild store, Friend or Guild. They will also get 3 of each mythic along the way to 15 codecs.
This also means, that ZOS would be more liberty to chop and change mythics around as they please. Items that have proven to require delicate balance, should they be nerfed or brought back, it is not a huge issue if the player has 15 codecs on their favorite mythic. Also 0 could be replaced with 5 transmutes if 0 is an issue.
1) Probably too easy to reconstruct initially
2) Cannot deconstruct to get transmutes back
3) There is no incentive to use antiq more than once, there should at least be some benefit to completing the codec.
I think it would probably be ideal to treat the codecs in a similar fashion to how collecting more set items = cheaper cost. Collect 5 codecs = 50, 10 codecs = 25, all 15 = free. If the goal is to get the cost of Transmuting the item to 0, it does not matter that it cannot be deconstructed. This would incentivise people to collect all 15 codecs. Another thing that could happen from this is at 15 codecs, the item is deemed collected and the leads no longer drop.
If that was in place it the three points would become
1) Initially quite costly to reconstruct compare to other items, but codecs can reduce the reconstruction cost to 0.
2) Cannot deconstruct, but doesn't matter as the most you'll get back is 0 because the cheapest cost of reconstruction is 0.
3) You are incentivised to collect all 15 codecs to reduce the reconstruction cost to 0.
4) No longer spammed with Mythic leads after completing all 15. The Mythic is deemed completed. Fully researched and understood, therefore reconstruction should become easier, the best minds in Tamriel have been studying what you've found. It also doesn't make sense that such a unique item can be found so many times. It is unique, one of a kind (at least to you, being account bound). They shouldn't rain from the sky, there should be some sort of finality to their procurement.
I'll add. It is very unlikely that a player that has access to all the required lead locations doesn't also have access to a transmute station via either CWC, Guild store, Friend or Guild. They will also get 3 of each mythic along the way to 15 codecs.
This also means, that ZOS would be more liberty to chop and change mythics around as they please. Items that have proven to require delicate balance, should they be nerfed or brought back, it is not a huge issue if the player has 15 codecs on their favorite mythic. Also 0 could be replaced with 5 transmutes if 0 is an issue.
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.8 -
richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.
Many are requesting all characters under CP160 should not have access to reconstruction at all. I agree with that. Being able to reconstruct any set for the cost of, well nothing as you'll get the transmutes back, perhaps gold the weapons, and just keep reconning as you level. Access to all those sets for BG would really just floor new players that don't have access to transmutes. Crafting should be for alts, Recon should be for end game collections.
Even if ZOS keeps access to under CP160 characters, this would mean that all characters could recon a Mythic for 0. I fail to see how your point 2 is contrary to anything I've said in my OP. Codecs are account wide, just as collections are. If ZOS maintains low level characters access to Recon, and they were to implement these suggestions, that means your alt can Recon a ring of the wild hunt with even greater ease, 0, if you have done the farm work for it.0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.
Many are requesting all characters under CP160 should not have access to reconstruction at all. I agree with that. Being able to reconstruct any set for the cost of, well nothing as you'll get the transmutes back, perhaps gold the weapons, and just keep reconning as you level. Access to all those sets for BG would really just floor new players that don't have access to transmutes. Crafting should be for alts, Recon should be for end game collections.
Even if ZOS keeps access to under CP160 characters, this would mean that all characters could recon a Mythic for 0. I fail to see how your point 2 is contrary to anything I've said in my OP. Codecs are account wide, just as collections are. If ZOS maintains low level characters access to Recon, and they were to implement these suggestions, that means your alt can Recon a ring of the wild hunt with even greater ease, 0, if you have done the farm work for it.
I'm objecting to your idea that adding tedious, repetitive grind is somehow a good thing.
And if you don't want reconstituted gear in low-level PvP, then ban it explicitly. PvP should probably have ban lists anyway.Edited by FrancisCrawford on October 8, 2020 12:03PM4 -
richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭It wouldn't be a repetitive grind indefinitely, in fact it would bring a finality to the leads and end the Mythic grind once completed, it would raise the transmute cost to what it should be imo (base of 75 (but you got the first one of three, so starts at 50)), with an ability to lower it if you so choose. Completely not required. Most of the leads related to Mythics (save for a few fishing and IC leads) appear through simply playing the game. I ignore the Mythic lead spam because its of no value to me, I would probably complete the Mythic spam if it would result in it being deemed 'completed' and actually provide a benefit such as reduced transmute cost.0 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why lord, do players want to restrict the access to fun for other players! Why!!?
People would just log character, bank item, log character, retrieve item. Maybe ZOS wants to reduce these pointless log-in server spam and let people enjoy all the variety the game has to offer without needless hurdles...?PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.11 -
richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭NeillMcAttack wrote: »Why lord, do players want to restrict the access to fun for other players! Why!!?
People would just log character, bank item, log character, retrieve item. Maybe ZOS wants to reduce these pointless log-in server spam and let people enjoy all the variety the game has to offer without needless hurdles...?
I think you posted in the wrong thread? Not sure what relog'ing is about.
Edit: I think I get it, my bad for humoring the de-railment of low level alts/PVP. As I said, this was something many were raising in other threads, i just agree with it. Not related to Mythic/Recon. As for your suggestion of relogging, well, you don't get a choice as to the level the reconstruction is, presently it simply gets made at the level of your character. So your CP160+ Character would make a CP160 item, and it could not be given to an alt you may intend to use to courageously destroy players with 5 hours of game time to their account in a BG.Edited by richo262 on October 9, 2020 1:36AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.
Ring of the Wild Hunt (and all Mythics) always reconstruct at Level 50/CP160. They cannot be reconstructed at a lower level. (I've never bothered to verify, but my understanding is that Mythics will drop at 50/160 even if you obtain them on a low level character.)
This is also true for any set that could not be obtained by a low level character. (Ex: Monster Helms and Perfected Gear.) This restriction also extends to some items that can technically be obtained at low level (I think) but are rarely seen. (Ex: Non-perfected arena and nAS weapons.)
So, there's already a significant subset of items that cannot be recreated at low levels.3 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.
Ring of the Wild Hunt (and all Mythics) always reconstruct at Level 50/CP160. They cannot be reconstructed at a lower level. (I've never bothered to verify, but my understanding is that Mythics will drop at 50/160 even if you obtain them on a low level character.)
This is also true for any set that could not be obtained by a low level character. (Ex: Monster Helms and Perfected Gear.) This restriction also extends to some items that can technically be obtained at low level (I think) but are rarely seen. (Ex: Non-perfected arena and nAS weapons.)
So, there's already a significant subset of items that cannot be recreated at low levels.
I've just started to test, but I'm leaning to the regrettable conclusion that you are correct.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.
Ring of the Wild Hunt (and all Mythics) always reconstruct at Level 50/CP160. They cannot be reconstructed at a lower level. (I've never bothered to verify, but my understanding is that Mythics will drop at 50/160 even if you obtain them on a low level character.)
This is also true for any set that could not be obtained by a low level character. (Ex: Monster Helms and Perfected Gear.) This restriction also extends to some items that can technically be obtained at low level (I think) but are rarely seen. (Ex: Non-perfected arena and nAS weapons.)
So, there's already a significant subset of items that cannot be recreated at low levels.
I've just started to test, but I'm leaning to the regrettable conclusion that you are correct.
The basic structure is, we didn't get an unlimited reserve of endgame gear to drop on unsuspecting newbies in battlegrounds. Yes, it will be pretty trivial to cough up full 5 pc sets, but it's not so hilariously broken as to let you go in with Arena weapons and monster helms at level 10.0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.
Ring of the Wild Hunt (and all Mythics) always reconstruct at Level 50/CP160. They cannot be reconstructed at a lower level. (I've never bothered to verify, but my understanding is that Mythics will drop at 50/160 even if you obtain them on a low level character.)
This is also true for any set that could not be obtained by a low level character. (Ex: Monster Helms and Perfected Gear.) This restriction also extends to some items that can technically be obtained at low level (I think) but are rarely seen. (Ex: Non-perfected arena and nAS weapons.)
So, there's already a significant subset of items that cannot be recreated at low levels.
I've just started to test, but I'm leaning to the regrettable conclusion that you are correct.
The basic structure is, we didn't get an unlimited reserve of endgame gear to drop on unsuspecting newbies in battlegrounds. Yes, it will be pretty trivial to cough up full 5 pc sets, but it's not so hilariously broken as to let you go in with Arena weapons and monster helms at level 10.
low lvl toons can make perfected trial sets tho !!!!!!! and tbh i dont see why an low lvl toon should be able to use this new system in any way there should be an 160 or cp lock added to it end of story0 -
MycroftJrSoul ShrivenThere's literally no reason the Mythic jewelry items (since, as they are jewelry, there is no armor value to scale with level) even need levels other than restricting who can wear them, which is kind of obnoxious.
The Ring of the Wild Hunt in particular would be incredibly useful on low-level characters and my discovery that it literally doesn't exist in a sub-160 form made me very sad.
ZOS should just remove the level from Mythic jewelry. Ban lowbies from wearing them in PvP all you want.1 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭I just don't understand why you don't get transmutes back. Is that confirmed to be intended?0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »I just don't understand why you don't get transmutes back. Is that confirmed to be intended?
Not intended ... you should get a handful of transmutes back with decon of reconstructed gear.
Send in a /bug ticket in-game, @Recapitated.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on November 18, 2020 10:44PM0 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.
Ring of the Wild Hunt (and all Mythics) always reconstruct at Level 50/CP160. They cannot be reconstructed at a lower level. (I've never bothered to verify, but my understanding is that Mythics will drop at 50/160 even if you obtain them on a low level character.)
This is also true for any set that could not be obtained by a low level character. (Ex: Monster Helms and Perfected Gear.) This restriction also extends to some items that can technically be obtained at low level (I think) but are rarely seen. (Ex: Non-perfected arena and nAS weapons.)
So, there's already a significant subset of items that cannot be recreated at low levels.
Just a minor note to confirm what you were finding: non-perfected arena weapons cannot drop in low level anymore, so it makes sense they can’t be reconstructed that way. Maelstrom and Dragonstar stopped doing that with Greymoor, while Blackrose only got updated together with Vateshran for the Markarth release (6.2.3).0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ever since one tamriel I've been of the belief that all gear levels should be removed and everything is just "gear".
I think it's unintuitive that your gears gets worse as you level up. As in, the item stats reduce when you level up. What? Why?
It's just confusing an unnecessary.
The game is not better because of crafting levels or gear levels. It's just legacy stuff that exists still, bloating the game to no real benefit.2 -
SeaUnicorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Being able to make copies of Wild Hunt ring is the only good thing that happened this patch so far.
It takes DAYS to get the leads and its mind numbingly boring and infuriating due to RNG component.
People have to stop with this nerfhearder attitude and take away nice thing attitude.
And low lvl BGs are already busted for new players because you can just craft or purchase and gold out proc sets that would demolish noobie that does not have any gold and is not able to affod that type of gear anyway. Twinking in low lvl BGs was a thing since forever. Nerfing mythic reconstruction to battle that is like increasing the taxes for the bread factories because rich people put caviar on bread.
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renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »
Grind for rapids on your low level toon in PvP you mean. Gone are the days you can "just get rapids".1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »1. I fail to see the problem.
2. Making Ring of the Wild Hunt available to low-level alts could help a lot with the fury people feel about Rapid Maneuvers.
The first point, yes. The second point, no as it would provide a greater advantage to players who have been around for a while vs a new player leveling up their first character. Just get rapids and problem solved.1 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »
Grind for rapids on your low level toon in PvP you mean. Gone are the days you can "just get rapids".
Players can get 100k AP in just one evening session in Cyrodiil ... that’s hardly a grind.0 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »
Grind for rapids on your low level toon in PvP you mean. Gone are the days you can "just get rapids".
Players can get 100k AP in just one evening session in Cyrodiil ... that’s hardly a grind.
Yeah. People who know and are good at PvP. Guaranteed people who aren't good and experienced can't.0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »
Grind for rapids on your low level toon in PvP you mean. Gone are the days you can "just get rapids".
Players can get 100k AP in just one evening session in Cyrodiil ... that’s hardly a grind.
Yeah. People who know and are good at PvP. Guaranteed people who aren't good and experienced can't.
*** shrugs ***
Six (6) years ago I was neither good nor experienced at PvP ... since ESO is (was) my first MMO.
However, I practiced, got better, and made a few friends along the way.1 -
dvcod✭✭✭New to all this but I have the ring of the wild hunt and how do I duplicate it for another character? I went all over the transmute station list and cant find it. Sorry for the nubie question!0
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭New to all this but I have the ring of the wild hunt and how do I duplicate it for another character? I went all over the transmute station list and cant find it. Sorry for the nubie question!
At a transmute station. Also probably should have spun this up in a new thread on the General Discussion board. This was on the PTS board (which is rarely visited out of season), in a thread discussing the system's original implementation (back in 2020.) Only reason I saw this is because I periodically check my Participated tab.0