Why Loot Boxes ARE an issue
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Lostar✭✭✭✭Quoted post has been removed.
I have asked for people's opinions but instead of being given a sound reason for why loot boxes should remain and why they are a benefit to us, we've seen flimsy arguments that excuse the game industry. I and others have posed several ideas that are further clarified in posts above that will likely get a 'no' without having read those posts thus requiring us to rehash things that have already been said only for the counterpoints to be ignored again. But here goes (an attempt was made to spoiler tag the quotes but it's a no go):- Loot boxes stay but they are regulated
Also keep in mind M rating means a 17 year old can still buy the game and it is considered appropriate for them.
What the game needs, should there be gambling in it, is a visible ESRB label that includes “real world money gambling” alongside where they would list “graphic violence” (as an example).
The ESRB label for ESO is already M and does not make mention of real world money gambling.
It needs to be Ao (Adult Only).
This is the kiss of death to most games. But loot boxes are the kiss of death to many gamers who are not hypothetical and are just as valued, and yes, entitled to being able to have healthy access to gaming entertainment, games that have no business including real-world money being used for gambling. And I care far more about the well-being of my fellow gamers and the artists that develop our games, far more than the investors who suck the life out of our game with their predatory monetization.
The MMO's available that do not have loot boxes are shrinking and it really hurts when you are as in love with the Elder Scrolls IP as I am. - Battlepasses
spartaxoxo wrote: »They could replace loot boxes with battle passes, imo. I like crown crates. But, I also like to game sometimes. I don't it is necessary to have loot boxes though and I won't cry if battlepasses and the like end up replacing them. They are clearly addictive. I find it less compelling in M rated games than ones rated T or E though.
spartaxoxo wrote: »They could replace loot boxes with battle passes, imo.
I enjoyed battle passes in games like to sea of thieves where You can earn some rewards for free but then you can also pay the $9USD to get the battle pass exclusive awards.
However, In this game we already have ESO+ So perhaps they could incentivize more people to try out ESO+ With the removal of loot crates… Gamble boxes… And tying in daily endeavors/daily login awards in some intuitive way into a battle pass that the ESO+ model gets some things exclusive to them while still allowing the free players (does anyone else remember the term fr00bs? fr00bie?) to obtain some things from the battle pass perhaps with the option to using crowns to buy the ESO+ exclusive rewards as you reach that tier in a battle pass season if you are not an ESO+ subscriber. This would curb gambling; punish no one, entice people into the ESO+ model (which I personally find worth it), and allow us to work towards rewards that we want within the season. Good idea. Thank you. - Subscription
JanTanhide wrote: »Can't gamble if you don't buy the Crown Crates. If you think it's gambling and don't want to gamble then don't buy them. No one is forcing anyone to buy Crown Crates. In all the years Crown Crates have been in this game I have purchased one Crown Crate.
I spend my monthly Crowns from the ESO Subscription on Music Boxes and other items that interest me and they are permanent in game.
I also think the game should be subscription only. It would weed out a lot of people that want everything for free.
alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »Also Jimquisition said it best: “If you need loot boxes in your game to keep your game afloat then we do not need you in the gaming industry.”
Of course this isn’t me saying that ZOS needs to shut its doors. I already said I love the game I just hate the gambling shoved in the faces of those of us who do pay attention to loot boxes because cosmetics are important to those of us who use them to enrich our own play style. But just how much I despise, vehemently hate the addition of predatory gambling in our game is nicely expressed in that sentiment.
We get it you are against the practise of lootboxes but what is your alternative?
The cash shop without loot boxes and a constant shift of limited time items? Can Zenimax not manage what Square-Enix has with their game? FFXIV is subscription yes, but you can play the base game and Heavensward for free and they manage without loot boxes.. without using FOMO marketing tactics..
So maybe a subscription. You said subscription games are never as profitable and yet… -stares at FFXIV-… maybe they can follow their model; base game + Morrowind is free to all; rest of the content; B2P + subscription… which would not change anything for those of us who have already been financially invested in the game with our ESO+ membership. - Direct purchase on the crown store
alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »Fact: ZOS are required to make a profit by shareholders
Wrong. They have never been a public company so no shareholders. Maybe they are a bit of one now thanks to the Microsoft buyout but I'm not even sure how that works with respect to ZOS operations themselves. They're certainly not listed independent of MS on the stock exchange.
Semantics, the requirement for them to make a profit is still there so my comment stands.
And I would have let you get away with it if you hadn't been so emphatic by preceding it with "Fact:"
Businesses wanting to make a profit is additionally a painfully obvious thing that doesn't need saying, much less emphasized as "Fact:" as if you were talking to a first grade class.
Using "Fact:" refers to other posters in the thread using the same method, did you respond the same way to them.
Still waiting for your alternative method for businesses to replace the income from banned lootboxes or do you not have an alternative and just expect them to lose money?
Well since you bring it up, how about direct sales instead of loot boxes?
Not an exhaustive list but what I have gathered in the last five minutes.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on June 28, 2022 6:49PM2 - Loot boxes stay but they are regulated
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i was ok with crown store at first let the rich buy items and show off to mates i have the latest fashion, but then after they put in gift and people selling crowns the players have a high rich and poor devide whhere the rich are extreamly rich to the point so much gold and inflation in the game completly runied the economy and everything achivments can be bought market manipulated. just like real life issues creeped in4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭maximusrex45 wrote: »The whole loot box thing is kind of ironic to me because it speaks of the insecurity of the developer's belief in their own product. They would make more money with direct sales, but instead decide to use loot boxes to keep their hooks in a more "reliable" segment of the population that will spend what they need to to get what they want. It is safe, but also limiting in a real business sense.
It's not that they don't believe in their own product. It's that they know it obscures the prices they want to charge, and that it also makes people more inclined to spend more than they normally would because they enjoy the gamble of seeing if they will get something good. This is all well and good, actually. I love heading to the casino. I enjoy slot machines. It's been a few years since I've been, but I enjoy going. But, there should be some regulations like requiring the purchaser to be 18, disclosing odds in-game with an additional info panel, and perhaps limiting the amount that can be purchased in 1 day. Perhaps to what a low-level whale would buy. But, I'm less sold on that one. Those are fairly common sense to me, and still allow the vast majority of adults to buy what they want, but with informed decisions.Edited by spartaxoxo on June 28, 2022 7:27PM0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_containing_battle_passes
A quick Google search tells me Battlepasses are in 47 different games.
Overwatch will soon count itself in that list and ditch lootboxes in favor of battlepasses. Fortnitee is indeed the biggest game to have them (being one of the biggest games on the planet), that doesn't make their battlepass the only definition of one.
Some are more like subs, and some are replacements for lootboxes.In the video game industry, a battle pass is a type of monetization approach that provides additional content for a game usually through a tiered system, rewarding the player with in-game items for playing the game and completing specific challenges. Inspired by the season pass ticketing system and originating with Dota 2 in 2013, the battle pass model gained more use as an alternative to subscription fees and loot boxes beginning in the late 2010s. Battle passes tend to offer free passes, which are available to all users, and a premium pass that require annual or seasonal charges in exchange for enhanced items and cosmetics.
Obviously the proper context for THIS game would be the ones that work as an alternative to lootboxes, since that would be a 1 to 1 example of how they'd have to be enabled to work here. Instead of an alternative to a sub.
I never argued that they wouldn't replace lootboxes, and in fact proposed a increasingly common alternative to them. What I disagreed with is the assertion that they need lootboxes or outrageous prices on specific items to monetize. They don't. They can also use battlepasses. It's what a lot of companies are doing.
And with a quick glimpse of that list I see a lot MOBAs and similar types of GaaS which are notably cheaper to developed and maintain compared to MMORPGs such as ESO. Just as what works for monetizing ESO does not work as well for that those types of games the same can be said of the reverse. This is not to suggest one cannot benefit from ideas the other has or has tried.
This is still very irrelevant to my point based on facts. Zenimax, and every game developer that uses loot boxes, will find another way to replace the lost revenue of loot crates if they are banned. The cost players pay for loot crates will b paid another way to cover the costs of maintaining the game one way or another or the game will reduce quality and/or quality and some might even shut their doors.
This is a fact of business survival.
In fact, I have no idea why we are arguing about a battle pass as all it does is prove my original point but makes an assumption we will like it in the manner Zenimax introduces it.
Regards and have a good day,
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭However, if Zenimax, or any of these companies that run these GaaS we like to play found a way to get the same amount of revenue via a means we like more they would already be doing it.
Just as a reminder, since you expressed confusion on which point I had been disagreeing with in regards to how we got on battlepasses.
This is the point. The disagreement was never that they'd have to replace it with something else. I even suggested a replacement. I have pointed this out before, but I guess it bears repeating. I then used this to reinforce my OWN point. The disagreement was against the idea that if there was something else that could replace lootboxes with, they already would have replaced them.
I personally believe this is untrue. We already have a good idea of what they can be replaced with, and that is battlepasses. They are already working in other games.
I feel this should not be lost, because there is a lot of concern being expressed throughout this thread that they would have no way to replace this income. So it's important to understand that lootboxes are already getting replaced successfully in a variety of games and genres.
Also, to the point about them being featured in other genres. Battlepasses also feature in Destiny 2, FF14 and Lost Ark, the latter of which is an MMORPG according to google. They just let you unlock fancy stuff by playing the game and you can get paid rewards too. I don't see that as something that needs a particular genre, and they are featured in a variety of genres.
I hope that helps to clarify my posts and why I feel they are important to this discussion. Have a good day.Edited by spartaxoxo on June 28, 2022 10:39PM0 -
Lostar✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_containing_battle_passes
A quick Google search tells me Battlepasses are in 47 different games.
Overwatch will soon count itself in that list and ditch lootboxes in favor of battlepasses. Fortnitee is indeed the biggest game to have them (being one of the biggest games on the planet), that doesn't make their battlepass the only definition of one.
Some are more like subs, and some are replacements for lootboxes.In the video game industry, a battle pass is a type of monetization approach that provides additional content for a game usually through a tiered system, rewarding the player with in-game items for playing the game and completing specific challenges. Inspired by the season pass ticketing system and originating with Dota 2 in 2013, the battle pass model gained more use as an alternative to subscription fees and loot boxes beginning in the late 2010s. Battle passes tend to offer free passes, which are available to all users, and a premium pass that require annual or seasonal charges in exchange for enhanced items and cosmetics.
Obviously the proper context for THIS game would be the ones that work as an alternative to lootboxes, since that would be a 1 to 1 example of how they'd have to be enabled to work here. Instead of an alternative to a sub.
I never argued that they wouldn't replace lootboxes, and in fact proposed a increasingly common alternative to them. What I disagreed with is the assertion that they need lootboxes or outrageous prices on specific items to monetize. They don't. They can also use battlepasses. It's what a lot of companies are doing.
And with a quick glimpse of that list I see a lot MOBAs and similar types of GaaS which are notably cheaper to developed and maintain compared to MMORPGs such as ESO. Just as what works for monetizing ESO does not work as well for that those types of games the same can be said of the reverse. This is not to suggest one cannot benefit from ideas the other has or has tried.
This is still very irrelevant to my point based on facts. Zenimax, and every game developer that uses loot boxes, will find another way to replace the lost revenue of loot crates if they are banned. The cost players pay for loot crates will b paid another way to cover the costs of maintaining the game one way or another or the game will reduce quality and/or quality and some might even shut their doors.
This is a fact of business survival.
In fact, I have no idea why we are arguing about a battle pass as all it does is prove my original point but makes an assumption we will like it in the manner Zenimax introduces it.
Regards and have a good day,
That is exactly what we want them to do. Replace gambling revenue with non-gambling revenue.
Whether it be- Battle passes
- Mandatory Paid Subscription (with a free version that gives base + Morrowind)
- Direct Sales in the Crown Store
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_containing_battle_passes
A quick Google search tells me Battlepasses are in 47 different games.
Overwatch will soon count itself in that list and ditch lootboxes in favor of battlepasses. Fortnitee is indeed the biggest game to have them (being one of the biggest games on the planet), that doesn't make their battlepass the only definition of one.
Some are more like subs, and some are replacements for lootboxes.In the video game industry, a battle pass is a type of monetization approach that provides additional content for a game usually through a tiered system, rewarding the player with in-game items for playing the game and completing specific challenges. Inspired by the season pass ticketing system and originating with Dota 2 in 2013, the battle pass model gained more use as an alternative to subscription fees and loot boxes beginning in the late 2010s. Battle passes tend to offer free passes, which are available to all users, and a premium pass that require annual or seasonal charges in exchange for enhanced items and cosmetics.
Obviously the proper context for THIS game would be the ones that work as an alternative to lootboxes, since that would be a 1 to 1 example of how they'd have to be enabled to work here. Instead of an alternative to a sub.
I never argued that they wouldn't replace lootboxes, and in fact proposed a increasingly common alternative to them. What I disagreed with is the assertion that they need lootboxes or outrageous prices on specific items to monetize. They don't. They can also use battlepasses. It's what a lot of companies are doing.
And with a quick glimpse of that list I see a lot MOBAs and similar types of GaaS which are notably cheaper to developed and maintain compared to MMORPGs such as ESO. Just as what works for monetizing ESO does not work as well for that those types of games the same can be said of the reverse. This is not to suggest one cannot benefit from ideas the other has or has tried.
This is still very irrelevant to my point based on facts. Zenimax, and every game developer that uses loot boxes, will find another way to replace the lost revenue of loot crates if they are banned. The cost players pay for loot crates will b paid another way to cover the costs of maintaining the game one way or another or the game will reduce quality and/or quality and some might even shut their doors.
This is a fact of business survival.
In fact, I have no idea why we are arguing about a battle pass as all it does is prove my original point but makes an assumption we will like it in the manner Zenimax introduces it.
Regards and have a good day,
That is exactly what we want them to do. Replace gambling revenue with non-gambling revenue.
Whether it be- Battle passes
- Mandatory Paid Subscription (with a free version that gives base + Morrowind)
- Direct Sales in the Crown Store
I'm very much against a mandatory sub.3 -
Lostar✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_containing_battle_passes
A quick Google search tells me Battlepasses are in 47 different games.
Overwatch will soon count itself in that list and ditch lootboxes in favor of battlepasses. Fortnitee is indeed the biggest game to have them (being one of the biggest games on the planet), that doesn't make their battlepass the only definition of one.
Some are more like subs, and some are replacements for lootboxes.In the video game industry, a battle pass is a type of monetization approach that provides additional content for a game usually through a tiered system, rewarding the player with in-game items for playing the game and completing specific challenges. Inspired by the season pass ticketing system and originating with Dota 2 in 2013, the battle pass model gained more use as an alternative to subscription fees and loot boxes beginning in the late 2010s. Battle passes tend to offer free passes, which are available to all users, and a premium pass that require annual or seasonal charges in exchange for enhanced items and cosmetics.
Obviously the proper context for THIS game would be the ones that work as an alternative to lootboxes, since that would be a 1 to 1 example of how they'd have to be enabled to work here. Instead of an alternative to a sub.
I never argued that they wouldn't replace lootboxes, and in fact proposed a increasingly common alternative to them. What I disagreed with is the assertion that they need lootboxes or outrageous prices on specific items to monetize. They don't. They can also use battlepasses. It's what a lot of companies are doing.
And with a quick glimpse of that list I see a lot MOBAs and similar types of GaaS which are notably cheaper to developed and maintain compared to MMORPGs such as ESO. Just as what works for monetizing ESO does not work as well for that those types of games the same can be said of the reverse. This is not to suggest one cannot benefit from ideas the other has or has tried.
This is still very irrelevant to my point based on facts. Zenimax, and every game developer that uses loot boxes, will find another way to replace the lost revenue of loot crates if they are banned. The cost players pay for loot crates will b paid another way to cover the costs of maintaining the game one way or another or the game will reduce quality and/or quality and some might even shut their doors.
This is a fact of business survival.
In fact, I have no idea why we are arguing about a battle pass as all it does is prove my original point but makes an assumption we will like it in the manner Zenimax introduces it.
Regards and have a good day,
That is exactly what we want them to do. Replace gambling revenue with non-gambling revenue.
Whether it be- Battle passes
- Mandatory Paid Subscription (with a free version that gives base + Morrowind)
- Direct Sales in the Crown Store
I'm very much against a mandatory sub.
It's probably the least popular since we have definitely moved away from that as a gaming community since the OG days
My personal favorite is a tiered battle pass.
Free Tier
ESO+Tier
Apex Tier ($X amount for that season)
I don't know how other games do it, and I said it before but I will continue to echo how much I enjoy Sea of Thieve's way of offering battle passes
Edited by Lostar on June 28, 2022 11:10PM2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_containing_battle_passes
A quick Google search tells me Battlepasses are in 47 different games.
Overwatch will soon count itself in that list and ditch lootboxes in favor of battlepasses. Fortnitee is indeed the biggest game to have them (being one of the biggest games on the planet), that doesn't make their battlepass the only definition of one.
Some are more like subs, and some are replacements for lootboxes.In the video game industry, a battle pass is a type of monetization approach that provides additional content for a game usually through a tiered system, rewarding the player with in-game items for playing the game and completing specific challenges. Inspired by the season pass ticketing system and originating with Dota 2 in 2013, the battle pass model gained more use as an alternative to subscription fees and loot boxes beginning in the late 2010s. Battle passes tend to offer free passes, which are available to all users, and a premium pass that require annual or seasonal charges in exchange for enhanced items and cosmetics.
Obviously the proper context for THIS game would be the ones that work as an alternative to lootboxes, since that would be a 1 to 1 example of how they'd have to be enabled to work here. Instead of an alternative to a sub.
I never argued that they wouldn't replace lootboxes, and in fact proposed a increasingly common alternative to them. What I disagreed with is the assertion that they need lootboxes or outrageous prices on specific items to monetize. They don't. They can also use battlepasses. It's what a lot of companies are doing.
And with a quick glimpse of that list I see a lot MOBAs and similar types of GaaS which are notably cheaper to developed and maintain compared to MMORPGs such as ESO. Just as what works for monetizing ESO does not work as well for that those types of games the same can be said of the reverse. This is not to suggest one cannot benefit from ideas the other has or has tried.
This is still very irrelevant to my point based on facts. Zenimax, and every game developer that uses loot boxes, will find another way to replace the lost revenue of loot crates if they are banned. The cost players pay for loot crates will b paid another way to cover the costs of maintaining the game one way or another or the game will reduce quality and/or quality and some might even shut their doors.
This is a fact of business survival.
In fact, I have no idea why we are arguing about a battle pass as all it does is prove my original point but makes an assumption we will like it in the manner Zenimax introduces it.
Regards and have a good day,
That is exactly what we want them to do. Replace gambling revenue with non-gambling revenue.
Whether it be- Battle passes
- Mandatory Paid Subscription (with a free version that gives base + Morrowind)
- Direct Sales in the Crown Store
I'm very much against a mandatory sub.
It's probably the least popular since we have definitely moved away from that as a gaming community since the OG days
My personal favorite is a tiered battle pass.
Free Tier
ESO+Tier
Apex Tier ($X amount for that season)
I think that would work well. I think maybe the last time should be radiant apex tier, and cost $$$. Maybe they could sell a different pass for each individual radiant, 3 per season. Getting all 3 that season could cost as much as getting a decorated house. And getting an individual one would be significantly cheaper than that but buying all 3 individual instead of them bundled up could be more expensive than getting the deal.Edited by spartaxoxo on June 28, 2022 11:15PM0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »RisenEclipse wrote: »I'm just going to add my two cents here. But legally loot boxes are not gambling. It's why many games implement them. They don't require a license to implement them, and they're a cash cow.
However I disagree with having them in the game. Personally I'd rather go to the crown store and buy a 5000 crown mount then pay for a 12 pack of crown crates and MAYBE get something good... and with my current rng luck, me getting anything good is unlikely LOL I find them irritating and annoying tbh. I'd be much happier just buying those same items in the store. So really I could do without them all together.
Your legal assertion is questionable. They may not have been ruled as such yet, but you most certainly do "gamble" to get the better prizes!
No the legal assertion is spot on. They are not illegal. Could they be in the future? Maybe. As of right now though they do not fall under the legal definition of gambling and are not considered gambling. It isn't even a gray area legally. Gambling is heavily regulated and controlled in the United States. The penalties for breaking gambling laws can be severe.
You can't judge things by possible future rulings. You judge things by the laws we have now and how those laws are applied. Again they might be problematic to people with personality traits that lead towards addiction and they might be predatory (I don't believe so) but they are not gambling. Others are correct that the laws are still playing catch-up on a lot of this so we will have to wait and see where the law comes down. Personally I don't think you create a law that denies rights of the many or punishes the many to protect the few. In other words my way of thinking is we need to be responsible for ourselves those around us and as much as possible government should stay out of the way.
You are moving the goalposts. "Gambling" and "legal" may overlap some, but are not identical.
A state lottery is legal in many US states, but is clearly gambling. The law on loot boxes is being hashed out now, especially since governments are usually behind on things like this.PC
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FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭maximusrex45 wrote: »The whole loot box thing is kind of ironic to me because it speaks of the insecurity of the developer's belief in their own product. They would make more money with direct sales, but instead decide to use loot boxes to keep their hooks in a more "reliable" segment of the population that will spend what they need to to get what they want. It is safe, but also limiting in a real business sense.
Doubtful. They make a lot on loot boxes. Though simply reskinning a mount and selling it is not as costly as making a new questing zone, however it is sold.
EDIT: Fix typos from tablet.Edited by FlopsyPrince on June 29, 2022 7:27PMPC
PS4/PS51 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would much prefer a mandatory sub.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would much prefer a mandatory sub. Though I'm quite aware that the game would likely languish and die. le sigh______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭I find it very odd that crown to gold trading has not been mentioned at all despite being the fastest possible f2p way of getting any CS item that's giftable and is actually sanctioned by ZOS, is it really that obscure? If only ZOS was decently competent about adding an actual in-game service of gold to crown ratios like in a lot of other MMO's this really wouldn't be a problem.0 -
Lostar✭✭✭✭I find it very odd that crown to gold trading has not been mentioned at all despite being the fastest possible f2p way of getting any CS item that's giftable and is actually sanctioned by ZOS, is it really that obscure? If only ZOS was decently competent about adding an actual in-game service of gold to crown ratios like in a lot of other MMO's this really wouldn't be a problem.
It has been discussed but I understand this thread has grown quite a bit. That being said, if loot boxes cannot be taken out, a direct service provided by ZOS like how GW2 does it wouldn't be unwelcomed.
Still prefer having them taken out all together and exchanged for a system that does not institute gambling.0 -
Kurague✭✭✭I find it generally okay to have lootboxes when it's just cosmetics...BUT; Only as long as I can buy what I want directly from the shop instead of trying my luck.
I'll give you an example of a good Loot box system: League of legend's. Why? Here goes:
You can buy every skin that goes into the lootboxes in the normal shop. Sure, they're expensive(Depends on which), but you have the choice to get exactly what you want.
Imagine there's a pack of new lootboxes, and I ONLY want the mount, I don't care about all the other things(This is the case for this roll of lootboxes, I just want the 2 horses). I would pay something like 7k crowns to buy the mount I want directly.
Now, let's say a new batch of boxes comes out, and there's like 6 or 7 different things I like; I can try my luck with the lootboxes. In the case of League, if I get skins I don't like, I'll reroll 3 into a new one for free(In this case, we have the lootbox gems currency to convert items we don't want.). I'll but 10k worth of boxes, and if I get what I want, fine, maybe I get 2 or 3 of the things I wanted, maybe only one, but I'll probably be able to buy one of the others with the loot gems I have, and I can still buy more crowns and get the 1 item I'm missing from the batch I liked.
Now THIS is how lootboxes should be done.5 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭I find it generally okay to have lootboxes when it's just cosmetics...BUT; Only as long as I can buy what I want directly from the shop instead of trying my luck.
I'll give you an example of a good Loot box system: League of legend's. Why? Here goes:
You can buy every skin that goes into the lootboxes in the normal shop. Sure, they're expensive(Depends on which), but you have the choice to get exactly what you want.
Imagine there's a pack of new lootboxes, and I ONLY want the mount, I don't care about all the other things(This is the case for this roll of lootboxes, I just want the 2 horses). I would pay something like 7k crowns to buy the mount I want directly.
Now, let's say a new batch of boxes comes out, and there's like 6 or 7 different things I like; I can try my luck with the lootboxes. In the case of League, if I get skins I don't like, I'll reroll 3 into a new one for free(In this case, we have the lootbox gems currency to convert items we don't want.). I'll but 10k worth of boxes, and if I get what I want, fine, maybe I get 2 or 3 of the things I wanted, maybe only one, but I'll probably be able to buy one of the others with the loot gems I have, and I can still buy more crowns and get the 1 item I'm missing from the batch I liked.
Now THIS is how lootboxes should be done.
I agree it would be easy for them to sell the gems needed directly for a crown price, or give all items a directly correlated crown price as well as chance to be won in the gamble boxes, this alleviates all issues.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)
Leveling...
Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}
Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'2 -
its a system they all know if i bought something and got it 100% thats the value but if its say rare item in box 10% chance then of cause im going to have to pay the odds might cost me 10 boxes compared to someone else who gets it in 3 boxes. And this invitives players with real money to be poured into eso supporting the game in return they can buy in game gold/colections and be rich in game and that an option for the people who want in game gold in exchnage for real money to zos. it only effects the player base who want items in game to complte ther colection and the others who pay for eso+ and expansions thats there limit how much they are willing to pay for playing this games. Before it eats away our time in pursuit in game achievments know it wants more money to pursuit in game items. after sepending soo much time and money thers nothing i can show for it except playing the why zos wants us to play. keep using new items/builds keep collecting new motifs and recipe to the point i cant keep up. not likeing it but have to keep playing because of the enjoyment and loyalty i have for the game thats all i can show for it. 7years playing 2700cp where a lot of player left the game due to how the game is managed and we dont get to here from them anymore just the new player who dont know the history of eso-online1
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Lostar✭✭✭✭asttreb17_ESO wrote: »its a system they all know if i bought something and got it 100% thats the value but if its say rare item in box 10% chance then of cause im going to have to pay the odds might cost me 10 boxes compared to someone else who gets it in 3 boxes. And this invitives players with real money to be poured into eso supporting the game in return they can buy in game gold/colections and be rich in game and that an option for the people who want in game gold in exchnage for real money to zos. it only effects the player base who want items in game to complte ther colection and the others who pay for eso+ and expansions thats there limit how much they are willing to pay for playing this games. Before it eats away our time in pursuit in game achievments know it wants more money to pursuit in game items. after sepending soo much time and money thers nothing i can show for it except playing the why zos wants us to play. keep using new items/builds keep collecting new motifs and recipe to the point i cant keep up. not likeing it but have to keep playing because of the enjoyment and loyalty i have for the game thats all i can show for it. 7years playing 2700cp where a lot of player left the game due to how the game is managed and we dont get to here from them anymore just the new player who dont know the history of eso-online
The text I bolded: Who are you referring to here?
Also, I am struggling to find the point you are trying to make here so, correct me if I misunderstood it. You see loot boxes as a necessary "evil" (using evil very loosely here) in order to support the development of the game and it's not a big deal because it only effects some people, not all people?Edited by Lostar on June 29, 2022 7:03PM0 -
dont see it as evil if you have the money and like it go for it, its an option in the game, dont have spare cash to spend in their and not really into that. free to play added later crown store added later dlc and expansions added later comapred to a new player joining all this wasn't avilable to older players starting the game, new player where attracted by all this investment on zos team adding more content to cater for everyone0
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Lostar✭✭✭✭asttreb17_ESO wrote: »dont see it as evil if you have the money and like it go for it, its an option in the game, dont have spare cash to spend in their and not really into that. free to play added later crown store added later dlc and expansions added later comapred to a new player joining all this wasn't avilable to older players starting the game, new player where attracted by all this investment on zos team adding more content to cater for everyone
Bolded: So, it's not evil if you have disposable income? Is it then evil if you do not and you are tempted to spend it anyways because of the brain chemistry that is especially problematic with some individuals that game studios exploit?
As Drammanoth pointed out, with respect, it is difficult to understand what you are saying here. I am also guessing it is a language barrier issue.
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