It is so sad, the dungeon design is so amazing. I'm having a blast running the new dungeons. And with the HM difficulty (and the fact that there are effectively 3 difficulty options now, well done ZOS!) the no death and speedrun are not even needed. Just give us good skins / personalities, hell even pets as reward for the HM clear.

At this point its not only sad for the playerbase, its also disrespectful for the Designers who put in so much work into this...

colossalvoids wrote: »

Don't know the actual reasoning but I kinda think it has something to do with people saying it's still "gated" despite being moved for just a vet clear instead of a challenger, so it was just repurposed for crown crates alone as people don't seem to judge that.

I think crown crates is more 'gated' because IRL money aside, even if you buy them with gold via crown gifting, there's RNG to contend with, or you have to be able to get a good gem yield, etc. In-game even if someone can't do vet, there are carries available, if they want to get the skin. Besides, skilled gameplay should be rewarded, it's a basic concept of games.

Vaoh wrote: »

Well the Reefdweller skin comes from Crown Crates instead of the Dreadsail Reef trial.

That pretty much answers the question lol.

just like the Blood-Forged skin, supposed to be from Bloodroot Forge

I feel like the problem here is that this is several different questions right now:

• How are the earnable rewards for content in game?
• How accessible are said rewards to players?

It does seem that there are fewer and fewer things available in game as most things are being shuttled to the Crown Store, which... I can't say I mind. I get my serotonin fix from getting the achievements, not from standing in the center of Mournhold trying to flex on random people. If that's the goal, why not just have each trifecta give a non-combat pet that's a floating neon sign that says "I'm better than u" so people can really see it?

As for the fact that things tend to go to the Crown Store over being earnable in game, yes it would be nice if they were earnable in game, but I'd rather make things accessible than gate rewards, particularly if a reward is useful for other groups of players (more on that below). What I do not agree with is stuffing them into Crown Crates. Anecdotal, but it seems like the drop rates for things on the last set of crates has made a turn for the worse, and I know most of us on the forums would rather buy things directly than have to jump through all of these RNG FOMO hoops that definitely make the store seem predatory to some people.

Now, as to accessibility of rewards, we need to remember on the forums that - for the most part - the forum base is much more experienced than the average player. We're here trying to argue that the XBox achievement metrics for dungeon clears is skewed, but it seems the fact that most of the playerbase isn't able to do the vet dungeons is inconceivable to a lot of people on the forums. I feel like this is why the "omg everything's too easy" argument here won't die is that the forums are an echo chamber of experienced players who can't understand what it's like to be casual. I remember on the PTS, I've even seen someone who was telling people like code to 'git gud' for saying that a certain dungeon mechanic may be too difficult for the average player.

There is a range of players in this game. As an example, I have a guildie who I see in guild chat almost every day and who's been playing longer than I have. They still have less than 1k CP, and I remember they were complaining a month or so ago about how the 'kill 20 WBs' weekly endeavor was inaccessible to them because it forced them to group up with people. Most other people I know hammered that one out solo the first day.

The big problem I have with rewards (like the MoS and FL personalities) is the fact that some of these rewards have uses other than flexing on people. I know I annoyed my guild when I first joined since I wanted to do nothing but MoS because I wanted that... for an RP character. There was also a lot of arguments about locking a useful furnishing like the fishing boat behind clearing a vet trial. Yes, on the forums, there are people who are in the top 1% or players who also do housing or RP or whatever, but that's definitely not a general rule. And I do not agree with putting a skill gate on the casual community. If a dungeon offers a flashy skin that's used on the enemies in there (like the Malatar purified or the Fang Lair sigils that inexplicably come from Scalecaller) that's one thing, but something that could be useful to a casual community like personalities or basic furnishings should be accessible to that community.

My example here would be, what if they released a mythic like pre-nerf Thrassians or Kilt that didn't lose stacks, making it basically a requirement in PvE... but then they locked one of the leads behind winning a ZOS-sponsored writing contest judged by leading fantasy authors? Sure, there are excellent fanfic writers who are into PvE, but there are also a lot of fanfic writers who are not and for whom that lead would be wasted. And we're already seeing the fury on the forum when a mythic useful in PvP and for build accessibility is locked behind 'sit here and steal from a lockbox.' People would rightly rage if the top-end PvErs had to switch gears and become creative storytellers and RPers just to get something they need.

Vaoh wrote: »

saar wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Well the Reefdweller skin comes from Crown Crates instead of the Dreadsail Reef trial.

That pretty much answers the question lol.

just like the Blood-Forged skin, supposed to be from Bloodroot Forge

Fun fact on that one, at one point on PTS it even mentioned the required bloodroot forge achievement needed to acquire the skin too lol

Reminded me of a mount couple years ago that had description about getting it from PvP, which ended up in clown store instead.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

For example look at Xbox's achievement rate for dungeon clears....

I always wonder about achievement stats like that. Does it include everyone who's ever made an account on XBox? Including millions who haven't played in years? And all the people who make an account during "free ESO trial" weeks? And all the people who don't have access to that DLC? Etc, etc, etc.

"% of people who have access to this Dungeon DLC who have cleared vet mode" would be a much more useful number to know. Although that still includes any ESO+ subscribers who don't run dungeons. /ponder

As far as i know, everyone who ever booted eso on xbox

I think the point of this thread is less about percentages and more about how [snip] it is that most stuff is beginning to get locked behind the crown crates or crown store. As someone with a gambling personality I say this game is quite unhealthy for me in that regard but I've gotten slightly better at ignoring the crown store however the lower tier rewards for every subsequent dungeon and veteran dungeons is kind of... boring. And I get everyone has different reasons to play dungeons and trials and stuff but the less content you make rewardable in game the more the game feels like a meaningless grind. I miss when developers would actually give you a reason to "get gud". The point for that now is kind of moot. Why get good when you can just buy a cool mount or buy a cool skin and stand in craglorn dancing? And honestly the mounts and skins in the crown store are getting better than the stuff you earn in dungeons and trials, [snip]

[edited for minor bashing & profanity bypass]