Are earnable skins going to be a thing of the past?

Dragonlord573

It has been over a year since we last were able to earn a skin from doing a vet DLC dungeon, that being the ugly grey skin from completing The Cauldron. Neither Rockgrove or Dreadsail rewards the player with a skin for clearing it on vet, but rather body markings. Furthermore it has been since Wolf Hunter since we had to really work for a skin by doing a speed run, no death, and hard mode clear of a dungeon. Apart from skins from events it seems we've seen the end of earnable skins unless the Q3 dungeon dlc makes me eat my hat. It's disappointing that dungeons are offering fewer and fewer rewards, and either the lack of rewards are contributing to people doing dungeons less or less people doing dungeons are causing ZOS to stop adding worthwhile rewards. For example look at Xbox's achievement rate for dungeon clears, Ascending Tide is at 0.08% completed on normal and 0.02% on vet. That's crazy in comparison to Waking Flame, which is 0.31% on normal and 0.11% on vet. (Most Delver achievements are below 0.20% completed so Ascending Tide is extremely low compared to every other Delver achievement.)

Either way, it's sad seeing the state dungeons are in.

colossalvoids

Don't know the actual reasoning but I kinda think it has something to do with people saying it's still "gated" despite being moved for just a vet clear instead of a challenger, so it was just repurposed for crown crates alone as people don't seem to judge that.

Bat

I'm going to also point out that the Ascending Tide dungeon hardmodes are in a league of their own, and that's more likely the reason they don't have many clears for especially the hardmodes.

Dragonlord573

Bat wrote: »

I'm going to also point out that the Ascending Tide dungeon hardmodes are in a league of their own, and that's more likely the reason they don't have many clears for especially the hardmodes.

Delver achievements are for getting the base vet clear for both dungeons

emilyhyoyeon

I'd rather see personalities from dungeon achievements again rather than skins, but yeah it is kinda sad

WiseSky

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

It has been over a year since we last were able to earn a skin from doing a vet DLC dungeon, that being the ugly grey skin from completing The Cauldron. Neither Rockgrove or Dreadsail rewards the player with a skin for clearing it on vet, but rather body markings. Furthermore it has been since Wolf Hunter since we had to really work for a skin by doing a speed run, no death, and hard mode clear of a dungeon. Apart from skins from events it seems we've seen the end of earnable skins unless the Q3 dungeon dlc makes me eat my hat. It's disappointing that dungeons are offering fewer and fewer rewards, and either the lack of rewards are contributing to people doing dungeons less or less people doing dungeons are causing ZOS to stop adding worthwhile rewards. For example look at Xbox's achievement rate for dungeon clears, Ascending Tide is at 0.08% completed on normal and 0.02% on vet. That's crazy in comparison to Waking Flame, which is 0.31% on normal and 0.11% on vet. (Most Delver achievements are below 0.20% completed so Ascending Tide is extremely low compared to every other Delver achievement.)

Either way, it's sad seeing the state dungeons are in.

0.08% completed on normal and 0.02% on vet.

This is rarer then radiant apex chances...

And we still have people saying how they want harder overland.

I think those numbers are quite lovely as they dungeons seam quite challenging for those who wish to partake.

The fire and ice mounts of GodSlayers is quite very rarly seen, I think it's good that it has a legendary status once you see it.

I for one like very challenging content giving rare skins and mounts, but it should 1 every year and they should be extremely hard to get to keep them on the legendary status.

Dragonlord573

WiseSky wrote: »

0.08% completed on normal and 0.02% on vet.

This is rarer then radiant apex chances...

And we still have people saying how they want harder overland.

I think those numbers are quite lovely as they dungeons seam quite challenging for those who wish to partake.

The fire and ice mounts of GodSlayers is quite very rarly seen, I think it's good that it has a legendary status once you see it.

I for one like very challenging content giving rare skins and mounts, but it should 1 every year and they should be extremely hard to get to keep them on the legendary status.

I agree to a degree. I think trials having earnable mounts for the best of the best is the way to go for them, but limiting the rewards for dungeon players such as myself when we get 4 dungeons a year would be upsetting. If they reintroduced an earnable personality every year then absolutely, but skins (or at least not reskinned pets and momentos) should be the standard rewards for vet dungeons clears/challenger achievement rewards.

Legitimately if I pug a dungeon and someone has Worm Wizard or Beast I know I'm with a really good teammate, doubly so with people using trial skins. Right now with how things are going we aren't getting anything to match our efforts, and as you said, the best of the best should be rewarded with a legendary reward.

Kiralyn2000

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

For example look at Xbox's achievement rate for dungeon clears....

I always wonder about achievement stats like that. Does it include everyone who's ever made an account on XBox? Including millions who haven't played in years? And all the people who make an account during "free ESO trial" weeks? And all the people who don't have access to that DLC? Etc, etc, etc.

"% of people who have access to this Dungeon DLC who have cleared vet mode" would be a much more useful number to know. Although that still includes any ESO+ subscribers who don't run dungeons. /ponder

Dragonlord573

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

For example look at Xbox's achievement rate for dungeon clears....

I always wonder about achievement stats like that. Does it include everyone who's ever made an account on XBox? Including millions who haven't played in years? And all the people who make an account during "free ESO trial" weeks? And all the people who don't have access to that DLC? Etc, etc, etc.

"% of people who have access to this Dungeon DLC who have cleared vet mode" would be a much more useful number to know. Although that still includes any ESO+ subscribers who don't run dungeons. /ponder

Based on games I've played it seems like the scores are based on everyone who has played the game, just cause there are some niche indie games with 100% completion from the player base.

LashanW

WiseSky wrote: »

0.08% completed on normal and 0.02% on vet.

This is rarer then radiant apex chances...

And we still have people saying how they want harder overland.

I think those numbers are quite lovely as they dungeons seam quite challenging for those who wish to partake.

I bet those numbers would much higher on PC, thanks to higher player count and especially addons like Code's combat alerts making endgame content more accessible.

Those numbers don't exactly represent playerbase difference when it comes to hard content in general. I mean, I have 3 DLC trial trifectas and 4 DLC dungeon trifectas but I've never done Ascending Tide dungeons on veteran. Two reasons for that,
1. I don't own that DLC and stopped using ESO+.
2. There isn't much incentive in these newer dungeons for me to go through the trouble of finding 3 other people to do them on vet.

UntilValhalla13

Y'know what people really want for completing the most difficult content in the game?

FACE. MARKINGS.

Yep. That's what we want...

xaraan

I'd say the biggest factor is that we are seeing skins mostly released only in crates now. Vs. any other reason, my wager goes on $$ as the most important reasoning for zos.

HeavyESO

Zos should retroactively add rewards to old trifectas and newer challengers, and then continue to give rewards for both in the future, so that it isn't just boring, blithe titles. The dungeons they make are actually really good. I stopped collecting skins after they went almost crate exclusive with them.

colossalvoids

Also I don't see the appeal about clear / participation percentages as those are kinda meaningless as creating an account or adding game to the library doesn't equate playing the game. Like most popular games you can check can have way less than 40-30% people even finishing it. Add free weeks, all the "free pass" ones, alt accounts which and voila we're at zero smth smth percent of engaged players, looks bad right? Gotta make it easier so people would participate more despite they won't. Ones that don't enjoy it won't be magically now and people currently enjoying would probably be less interested. If that's the metrics zos is looking at also I'd be for a huge disappointments going forward.

Bat

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Bat wrote: »

I'm going to also point out that the Ascending Tide dungeon hardmodes are in a league of their own, and that's more likely the reason they don't have many clears for especially the hardmodes.

Delver achievements are for getting the base vet clear for both dungeons

The point being about the comparison you made being apples to oranges. Of course easier content will get more clears.

Milchbart

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

It has been over a year since we last were able to earn a skin from doing a vet DLC dungeon, that being the ugly grey skin from completing The Cauldron. Neither Rockgrove or Dreadsail rewards the player with a skin for clearing it on vet, but rather body markings. Furthermore it has been since Wolf Hunter since we had to really work for a skin by doing a speed run, no death, and hard mode clear of a dungeon. Apart from skins from events it seems we've seen the end of earnable skins unless the Q3 dungeon dlc makes me eat my hat. It's disappointing that dungeons are offering fewer and fewer rewards, and either the lack of rewards are contributing to people doing dungeons less or less people doing dungeons are causing ZOS to stop adding worthwhile rewards. For example look at Xbox's achievement rate for dungeon clears, Ascending Tide is at 0.08% completed on normal and 0.02% on vet. That's crazy in comparison to Waking Flame, which is 0.31% on normal and 0.11% on vet. (Most Delver achievements are below 0.20% completed so Ascending Tide is extremely low compared to every other Delver achievement.)

Where did you get these numbers?
Do you have numbers for PC also?

TheNuminous1

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

It has been over a year since we last were able to earn a skin from doing a vet DLC dungeon, that being the ugly grey skin from completing The Cauldron. Neither Rockgrove or Dreadsail rewards the player with a skin for clearing it on vet, but rather body markings. Furthermore it has been since Wolf Hunter since we had to really work for a skin by doing a speed run, no death, and hard mode clear of a dungeon. Apart from skins from events it seems we've seen the end of earnable skins unless the Q3 dungeon dlc makes me eat my hat. It's disappointing that dungeons are offering fewer and fewer rewards, and either the lack of rewards are contributing to people doing dungeons less or less people doing dungeons are causing ZOS to stop adding worthwhile rewards. For example look at Xbox's achievement rate for dungeon clears, Ascending Tide is at 0.08% completed on normal and 0.02% on vet. That's crazy in comparison to Waking Flame, which is 0.31% on normal and 0.11% on vet. (Most Delver achievements are below 0.20% completed so Ascending Tide is extremely low compared to every other Delver achievement.)

Either way, it's sad seeing the state dungeons are in.

The fact that you presented that without like making the point that.

NOT EVEN 1% OF THE PLAYER BASE IS DOING ANY DUNGEONS. NORM OR VET

In fact even if you added all the players together who completed those achievements it's still like less then 1%

WHY ARE THEY MAKING TWO DLC A YEAR FOCUSED ON SOMETHING LESS THEN 1% OF PLAYERS DO?????

Danikat

If you mean character skins specifically and not other types of cosmetics available from vet dungeons/trials maybe it's just that ZOS noticed not many people were using the skins, and thought a different type of reward might be more appealing.

(I'm only unsure because many games use 'skins' are a generic term for all cosmetics, and some players carry that habit over to ESO, using skins to mean all motifs, outfit pieces markings, even mounts, hair styles etc.)

Here's a poll from last September: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/586067/do-you-use-skins/p1

Yes it's only a forum poll and not representative of the whole game, but I think it's unlikely people on the forum and more or less likely to use skins than the average player. Only 17% said they use them for most characters, with 22% saying they don't use any. The biggest group (37%) said it depends on the character, but in the replies many of them said that means they only use 1 skin on 1 character.

Feljax

I personally wish there were more skins and personalities that were earnable in game, preferably from meta achievements that wouldn't require running trials. I imagine my play time would go up if I had solo'able rewards that I'd like to strive for. Personalities are my favourites. Generally, I find the current skins just to way out there. I'd love some subtle skins.

Dragonlord573

Milchbart wrote: »

Where did you get these numbers?
Do you have numbers for PC also?

Xbox keeps track of its achievement completion numbers both from the xbox dashboard and on the xbox app. Reason I mentioned the scout and delver achievements is because challenger achievements are only in-game and not Xbox achievements.

I wouldn't even know where to look for PC numbers as Xbox is my platform.

Dragonlord573

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

NOT EVEN 1% OF THE PLAYER BASE IS DOING ANY DUNGEONS. NORM OR VET

In fact even if you added all the players together who completed those achievements it's still like less then 1%

WHY ARE THEY MAKING TWO DLC A YEAR FOCUSED ON SOMETHING LESS THEN 1% OF PLAYERS DO?????

Wish High Isle had come out longer than two days ago, but as of right now only 0.02% of players have finished High Isle's zone quest. 0.29% have finished Deadlands, 0.65% have finished Blackwood.

Less than 1% of players are actually even playing the game in Xbox.

Some other achievements to look at:

Level 50 Hero: 6.62%
The God of Schemes: 4.98%
Support The Fight: 5.44%
Rockgrove Completed: 0.26%
March of Sacrifices Vanquisher: 1.03%
Moon Hunter Keep Vanquisher: 0.92%
Wrathstone Scout: 0.71%

It has been since Wolfhunter since at least 1% of the Xbox playerbase has done a full dungeon DLC, and less than 1% of the playerbase is doing the Chapters.

Seminolegirl1992

Unless a friend asks me to join, I've stopped caring about dungeons years ago. I get the trophies and I'm done with them. I miss earning personalities, skins... hell- emotes, mementos, and furnishings would be nice too. The body markings I'll likely never use. I mean...the fact that the hardest achievements give you face markings...body markings are bad enough but sometimes I use them if they're cool enough (arm sleeves are nice- esp colorful ones).

EozZoe1989

everything should be in game earnable via quests and so should the mounts too,, some them anyways because its a must and want i think for some of us.. or many not sure..

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Imagine if we were able to get cool stuff by actually playing the game?

There's less money to earned that way unfortunately.

Wolfpaw

You could earn skins from our awesome PvP rewards...oh wait...

FeedbackOnly

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I'd rather see personalities from dungeon achievements again rather than skins, but yeah it is kinda sad

Either or

Vaoh

Well the Reefdweller skin comes from Crown Crates instead of the Dreadsail Reef trial.

That pretty much answers the question lol.

Danikat

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

NOT EVEN 1% OF THE PLAYER BASE IS DOING ANY DUNGEONS. NORM OR VET

In fact even if you added all the players together who completed those achievements it's still like less then 1%

WHY ARE THEY MAKING TWO DLC A YEAR FOCUSED ON SOMETHING LESS THEN 1% OF PLAYERS DO?????

Wish High Isle had come out longer than two days ago, but as of right now only 0.02% of players have finished High Isle's zone quest. 0.29% have finished Deadlands, 0.65% have finished Blackwood.

Less than 1% of players are actually even playing the game in Xbox.

Some other achievements to look at:

Level 50 Hero: 6.62%
The God of Schemes: 4.98%
Support The Fight: 5.44%
Rockgrove Completed: 0.26%
March of Sacrifices Vanquisher: 1.03%
Moon Hunter Keep Vanquisher: 0.92%
Wrathstone Scout: 0.71%

It has been since Wolfhunter since at least 1% of the Xbox playerbase has done a full dungeon DLC, and less than 1% of the playerbase is doing the Chapters.

Isn't ESO on Xbox Game Pass? That could skew the numbers because there might be a lot of people who downloaded it just because it was free and treated it sort of like a free trial - playing a little bit and then dropping it because they were never actually that interested.

Also I've heard a lot of people on consoles create extra profiles so they can have a private guild bank for extra storage. (You can do that on PC as well, but you need a separate copy of the game for each one, so it's more expensive and therefore a lot less common than it seems to be on consoles.) That would also affect the numbers on those achievements because I assume a lot of those extra accounts never actually do anything except join the guild.

PrimusTiberius

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

NOT EVEN 1% OF THE PLAYER BASE IS DOING ANY DUNGEONS. NORM OR VET

In fact even if you added all the players together who completed those achievements it's still like less then 1%

Where are you getting your numbers from?

My main guild, everyone is running dungeons and we have scheduled trials runs 3 times a week, sometimes we can fit everyone in. My other guilds are also running dungeons and trials all the time, I see the rosters on Discord and they're full. Request for players are always popping up in chat with players responding with an X.

Abelon

Danikat wrote: »

Also I've heard a lot of people on consoles create extra profiles so they can have a private guild bank for extra storage. (You can do that on PC as well, but you need a separate copy of the game for each one, so it's more expensive and therefore a lot less common than it seems to be on consoles.) That would also affect the numbers on those achievements because I assume a lot of those extra accounts never actually do anything except join the guild.

People on pc just use the f2p events that happen every once in a while. There's tons of players with private guild banks. And all those f2p accounts that have a lifespan of 2 minutes are also in those statistics.

Those percentages are absolutely useless. Only ZOS can properly look at how many of their active players do certain content. The numbers we get are so watered down that they're not even worth mentioning.

And either way, the exact percentage of people doing vet dungeons isn't that relevant to the topic. If ZOS supposedly cared about not enough players doing them and started leaving out rewards because of it... Then they'd have to put those skins elsewhere, no? Like into rewards of easier content, that more players get done? Of course that never happened, because that's not the reason skins get left out.

Most things land in the crown store. That's it. That's the explanation.

Maybe, just maybe, if hard content actually awarded you with cool stuff, more people would be encouraged to do it. But of course we'll never know for sure, because nothing will change.

Vaoh

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

It has been over a year since we last were able to earn a skin from doing a vet DLC dungeon, that being the ugly grey skin from completing The Cauldron. Neither Rockgrove or Dreadsail rewards the player with a skin for clearing it on vet, but rather body markings. Furthermore it has been since Wolf Hunter since we had to really work for a skin by doing a speed run, no death, and hard mode clear of a dungeon. Apart from skins from events it seems we've seen the end of earnable skins unless the Q3 dungeon dlc makes me eat my hat. It's disappointing that dungeons are offering fewer and fewer rewards, and either the lack of rewards are contributing to people doing dungeons less or less people doing dungeons are causing ZOS to stop adding worthwhile rewards. For example look at Xbox's achievement rate for dungeon clears, Ascending Tide is at 0.08% completed on normal and 0.02% on vet. That's crazy in comparison to Waking Flame, which is 0.31% on normal and 0.11% on vet. (Most Delver achievements are below 0.20% completed so Ascending Tide is extremely low compared to every other Delver achievement.)

Either way, it's sad seeing the state dungeons are in.

The fact that you presented that without like making the point that.

NOT EVEN 1% OF THE PLAYER BASE IS DOING ANY DUNGEONS. NORM OR VET

In fact even if you added all the players together who completed those achievements it's still like less then 1%

WHY ARE THEY MAKING TWO DLC A YEAR FOCUSED ON SOMETHING LESS THEN 1% OF PLAYERS DO?????

You’re basing this off of console achievement unlocks?? This is shamefully misleading. ESO had an enormous console launch and tons of subsequent free-to-play weekends.

Trophies/Achievements consider all accounts created on your platform for %completion. Yes, even inactive accounts.

Here’s some more stats:
• Only 35.4% of players completed the tutorial.
• Only 12.6% of players finished the main quest.
• Only 19.1% of players reached Lvl 50.
• Only 20.7% of players entered Cyrodiil.
• Only 0.2% platinumed the game. (all trophies)

But you really want to say less than 1% of players run dungeons? Lol ok.