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Healing potential Argonian vs High Elf Magsorc.
Casul
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Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
PvP needs more love.
0
Best Answer
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MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
Healers tend to invest less in spell damage and more in regen. That’s not to say High elf is weak, but rather strong in this case because adding 258 spell damage to a build with very low spell damage will result in a stronger effectiveness than you would have on a damage dealer. With major and minor sorcery you gain 335 spell damage from high elf, add that value to the build stats and compare healing values before and after the change here:
http://esolog.uesp.net/viewSkills.php0
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Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Racial Passives basically don't matter except for the highest level of play.
the 6% Healing is nice but the High Elf passives are nice too. Also the Potion Passive on Argonians is still very strong in PvP.Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup1 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
I don't have the energy myself to look up exact numbers for this at the moment, but if you would like, there are specific formulas you can find that will get you exact numbers.
For what I can tell you right now, all else the same between the two, the Argonian will have stronger heals than the High Elf, but the High Elf will have stronger spell damage. The difference is negligible between the two, however, as both will accomplish very similar stats in the end. Sustain should be about the same for both, so long as you're using healing spells, as the High Elf will have to spam slightly more to get the same healing output, although the High Elf will have slightly more magicka to use for non-healing spells. It is also worth considering that not all healing uses magicka, if you decide to build that way.
Something I would also recommend considering is that, if Argonian gives you bonuses to healing, you can take abilities and sets you would normally dedicate to healing, and use them instead to get some extra damage or sustain. The same goes for the High Elf - you would want to dedicate more resources to healing to make up for the loss from not being an Argonian. Especially in PVP where one isn't typically trying to min/max, and have more balanced stats, this is the case.
So... pick the one you prefer the flavor of, is my recommendation. There are slight differences, especially depending on how you build the character, but nothing in race choice is going to do much to your build in the scheme of things.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.1 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭remember that the Healing Done stat is not exclusively a healer bonus. everyone self heals to some extent, and any heals initiated by you, even if they are not heals intended to heal other players, will be boosted by argonian's Healing Done bonus
this is important, as you say you want to pvp, where self healing has always been very importantskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
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the funny thing is that swim speed itself is just a modifier on your movement speed, increase movement speed and you increase swim speed
my stealth khajiit NB that i use mostly for heists is basically speed capped without sprint, can swim faster than my argonian under normal speed conditions lol0 -
Thecompton73✭✭✭✭✭I'm not sure about the effect of racial passives but I can say I've compared using Nirnhoned vs Powered as the weapon trait on a healer and the Nirnhoned actually buffed my heals more than powered.0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure that 6% additional healing done equates to less than half of the High Elf spell damage bonus in terms of throughput. It's obvious that some of you have never done any healing, but healing skills also scale off of spell damage FYI.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"1 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
I don't have the energy myself to look up exact numbers for this at the moment, but if you would like, there are specific formulas you can find that will get you exact numbers.
For what I can tell you right now, all else the same between the two, the Argonian will have stronger heals than the High Elf, but the High Elf will have stronger spell damage. The difference is negligible between the two, however, as both will accomplish very similar stats in the end. Sustain should be about the same for both, so long as you're using healing spells, as the High Elf will have to spam slightly more to get the same healing output, although the High Elf will have slightly more magicka to use for non-healing spells. It is also worth considering that not all healing uses magicka, if you decide to build that way.
Something I would also recommend considering is that, if Argonian gives you bonuses to healing, you can take abilities and sets you would normally dedicate to healing, and use them instead to get some extra damage or sustain. The same goes for the High Elf - you would want to dedicate more resources to healing to make up for the loss from not being an Argonian. Especially in PVP where one isn't typically trying to min/max, and have more balanced stats, this is the case.
So... pick the one you prefer the flavor of, is my recommendation. There are slight differences, especially depending on how you build the character, but nothing in race choice is going to do much to your build in the scheme of things.Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
Spell damage is the stronger stat. Not only does it have more modifiers, but 258 spell damage > 6% healing done in terms of healing throughput. The amount of spell damage glyphs you add as a healer depends on how well you can sustain them.
If you're looking for the math, you can thank The Asian God. You can ignore the bit about Sorcs, as Pets no longer scale off of Max Magicka exclusively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFMFgIaiSk&list=PL8lTY87f8mt0O-LidRLUJbrpMxwpxJZwn&index=55 Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure that 6% additional healing done equates to less than half of the High Elf spell damage bonus in terms of throughput. It's obvious that some of you have never done any healing, but healing skills also scale off of spell damage FYI.
i believe the current estimate is 60 dmg = 1% increase
258 dmg would be roughly 4.3% increase if the estimate is still the same
but when you add other bonuses to that value (as others noted, major and minor sorcery/brutality) that becomes 335 dmg which would put its bonus at almost 5.6%
so realistically they are pretty close to the same0 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So..... Racials don't matter till the top 5% of players..... just like alwaysAltoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
I don't have the energy myself to look up exact numbers for this at the moment, but if you would like, there are specific formulas you can find that will get you exact numbers.
For what I can tell you right now, all else the same between the two, the Argonian will have stronger heals than the High Elf, but the High Elf will have stronger spell damage. The difference is negligible between the two, however, as both will accomplish very similar stats in the end. Sustain should be about the same for both, so long as you're using healing spells, as the High Elf will have to spam slightly more to get the same healing output, although the High Elf will have slightly more magicka to use for non-healing spells. It is also worth considering that not all healing uses magicka, if you decide to build that way.
Something I would also recommend considering is that, if Argonian gives you bonuses to healing, you can take abilities and sets you would normally dedicate to healing, and use them instead to get some extra damage or sustain. The same goes for the High Elf - you would want to dedicate more resources to healing to make up for the loss from not being an Argonian. Especially in PVP where one isn't typically trying to min/max, and have more balanced stats, this is the case.
So... pick the one you prefer the flavor of, is my recommendation. There are slight differences, especially depending on how you build the character, but nothing in race choice is going to do much to your build in the scheme of things.Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
Spell damage is the stronger stat. Not only does it have more modifiers, but 258 spell damage > 6% healing done in terms of healing throughput. The amount of spell damage glyphs you add as a healer depends on how well you can sustain them.
If you're looking for the math, you can thank The Asian God. You can ignore the bit about Sorcs, as Pets no longer scale off of Max Magicka exclusively.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFMFgIaiSk&list=PL8lTY87f8mt0O-LidRLUJbrpMxwpxJZwn&index=55
Wouldn't that depend on how much one have invested in healing already, however?
To make numbers simple, as an example, let's say we had 100 for our healing power. 50 spell damage would give 150 healing power total, where 5% increased healing would give 105 healing power total. But if we had 1000 for healing power, 50 spell damage and 5% increased healing would be the same for total healing power. If we had 10,000 healing power, 50 spell damage would give 10,050 healing power total, and 5% increased healing would give 10,500 healing power total.
So a static number would be better or worse than a percentage depending on how much one has already invested into healing power (it also varies depending on where the stats are entered into the formula but I'm ignoring that for now). Effectively, if one wanted to max out healing, healing% will give more healing than extra spell damage; spell damage will give more healing only if one is not specced as a healer primarily.
Of course, this is purely talking about healing power, not the other differences between the two.
Anyway, do you have any clarification on this? I can't watch the video, being at work right now, if that offers clarification I'm missing.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes. Racials matter.
But the difference between each Race will not make or break your build under any circumstance.Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup1 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
I don't have the energy myself to look up exact numbers for this at the moment, but if you would like, there are specific formulas you can find that will get you exact numbers.
For what I can tell you right now, all else the same between the two, the Argonian will have stronger heals than the High Elf, but the High Elf will have stronger spell damage. The difference is negligible between the two, however, as both will accomplish very similar stats in the end. Sustain should be about the same for both, so long as you're using healing spells, as the High Elf will have to spam slightly more to get the same healing output, although the High Elf will have slightly more magicka to use for non-healing spells. It is also worth considering that not all healing uses magicka, if you decide to build that way.
Something I would also recommend considering is that, if Argonian gives you bonuses to healing, you can take abilities and sets you would normally dedicate to healing, and use them instead to get some extra damage or sustain. The same goes for the High Elf - you would want to dedicate more resources to healing to make up for the loss from not being an Argonian. Especially in PVP where one isn't typically trying to min/max, and have more balanced stats, this is the case.
So... pick the one you prefer the flavor of, is my recommendation. There are slight differences, especially depending on how you build the character, but nothing in race choice is going to do much to your build in the scheme of things.Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
Spell damage is the stronger stat. Not only does it have more modifiers, but 258 spell damage > 6% healing done in terms of healing throughput. The amount of spell damage glyphs you add as a healer depends on how well you can sustain them.
If you're looking for the math, you can thank The Asian God. You can ignore the bit about Sorcs, as Pets no longer scale off of Max Magicka exclusively.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFMFgIaiSk&list=PL8lTY87f8mt0O-LidRLUJbrpMxwpxJZwn&index=55
Wouldn't that depend on how much one have invested in healing already, however?
To make numbers simple, as an example, let's say we had 100 for our healing power. 50 spell damage would give 150 healing power total, where 5% increased healing would give 105 healing power total. But if we had 1000 for healing power, 50 spell damage and 5% increased healing would be the same for total healing power. If we had 10,000 healing power, 50 spell damage would give 10,050 healing power total, and 5% increased healing would give 10,500 healing power total.
So a static number would be better or worse than a percentage depending on how much one has already invested into healing power (it also varies depending on where the stats are entered into the formula but I'm ignoring that for now). Effectively, if one wanted to max out healing, healing% will give more healing than extra spell damage; spell damage will give more healing only if one is not specced as a healer primarily.
Of course, this is purely talking about healing power, not the other differences between the two.
Anyway, do you have any clarification on this? I can't watch the video, being at work right now, if that offers clarification I'm missing.
The additional healing would only benefit you if you had an extraordinary amount of spell damage already to be more of an increase than a base spell damage increase. To the extent that you may not even be able to reach the threshold to where that would be possible, or your entire build would have to be centered around spell damage to the detriment of everything else. As it is, I believe even a base Magicka armor bonus provides more or at least comparable throughput. That is also addressed in the video.
You have to also consider the amount of spell damage buffs and modifiers compared to healing done, as well.Edited by Kahnak on May 26, 2022 8:04PMTombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Racials matter.
But the difference between each Race will not make or break your build under any circumstance.
Only if you know how to play the game. The average player, who may not know how to optimize, is going to see a big increase in DPS transitioning from a Breton to a High Elf if they aren't making any adjustments to gear. That may not make or break your build, but it is an obvious power increase.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
I don't have the energy myself to look up exact numbers for this at the moment, but if you would like, there are specific formulas you can find that will get you exact numbers.
For what I can tell you right now, all else the same between the two, the Argonian will have stronger heals than the High Elf, but the High Elf will have stronger spell damage. The difference is negligible between the two, however, as both will accomplish very similar stats in the end. Sustain should be about the same for both, so long as you're using healing spells, as the High Elf will have to spam slightly more to get the same healing output, although the High Elf will have slightly more magicka to use for non-healing spells. It is also worth considering that not all healing uses magicka, if you decide to build that way.
Something I would also recommend considering is that, if Argonian gives you bonuses to healing, you can take abilities and sets you would normally dedicate to healing, and use them instead to get some extra damage or sustain. The same goes for the High Elf - you would want to dedicate more resources to healing to make up for the loss from not being an Argonian. Especially in PVP where one isn't typically trying to min/max, and have more balanced stats, this is the case.
So... pick the one you prefer the flavor of, is my recommendation. There are slight differences, especially depending on how you build the character, but nothing in race choice is going to do much to your build in the scheme of things.Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
Spell damage is the stronger stat. Not only does it have more modifiers, but 258 spell damage > 6% healing done in terms of healing throughput. The amount of spell damage glyphs you add as a healer depends on how well you can sustain them.
If you're looking for the math, you can thank The Asian God. You can ignore the bit about Sorcs, as Pets no longer scale off of Max Magicka exclusively.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFMFgIaiSk&list=PL8lTY87f8mt0O-LidRLUJbrpMxwpxJZwn&index=55
Wouldn't that depend on how much one have invested in healing already, however?
To make numbers simple, as an example, let's say we had 100 for our healing power. 50 spell damage would give 150 healing power total, where 5% increased healing would give 105 healing power total. But if we had 1000 for healing power, 50 spell damage and 5% increased healing would be the same for total healing power. If we had 10,000 healing power, 50 spell damage would give 10,050 healing power total, and 5% increased healing would give 10,500 healing power total.
So a static number would be better or worse than a percentage depending on how much one has already invested into healing power (it also varies depending on where the stats are entered into the formula but I'm ignoring that for now). Effectively, if one wanted to max out healing, healing% will give more healing than extra spell damage; spell damage will give more healing only if one is not specced as a healer primarily.
Of course, this is purely talking about healing power, not the other differences between the two.
Anyway, do you have any clarification on this? I can't watch the video, being at work right now, if that offers clarification I'm missing.
The additional healing would only benefit you if you had an extraordinary amount of spell damage already to be more of an increase than a base spell damage increase. To the extent that you may not even be able to reach the threshold to where that would be possible, or your entire build would have to be centered around spell damage to the detriment of everything else. As it is, I believe even a base Magicka armor bonus provides more or at least comparable throughput. That is also addressed in the video.
You have to also consider the amount of spell damage buffs and modifiers compared to healing done, as well.
Thanks for the response. It might be worth my time someday, quantifying how many resources and options players have to distribute to healing vs. spell damage, it seems. Like, just as an example, does it take fewer champion points invested in healing or damage, when distributing points in such a way that the boosts between the two are even. Because if it takes fewer points to invest in healing, that might mean you have more points to spend on other things too, which you might not have with speccing just into damage.
I mean, that's the rub isn't it with just DPSes, trying to balance spell crit power, spell crit chance, and spell damage, to get the biggest effect - this is just adding in healing done, healing received, healing taken, heal crit chance, and heal crit power, to all of that.
I teach math and this still is a lot even for me.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
I don't have the energy myself to look up exact numbers for this at the moment, but if you would like, there are specific formulas you can find that will get you exact numbers.
For what I can tell you right now, all else the same between the two, the Argonian will have stronger heals than the High Elf, but the High Elf will have stronger spell damage. The difference is negligible between the two, however, as both will accomplish very similar stats in the end. Sustain should be about the same for both, so long as you're using healing spells, as the High Elf will have to spam slightly more to get the same healing output, although the High Elf will have slightly more magicka to use for non-healing spells. It is also worth considering that not all healing uses magicka, if you decide to build that way.
Something I would also recommend considering is that, if Argonian gives you bonuses to healing, you can take abilities and sets you would normally dedicate to healing, and use them instead to get some extra damage or sustain. The same goes for the High Elf - you would want to dedicate more resources to healing to make up for the loss from not being an Argonian. Especially in PVP where one isn't typically trying to min/max, and have more balanced stats, this is the case.
So... pick the one you prefer the flavor of, is my recommendation. There are slight differences, especially depending on how you build the character, but nothing in race choice is going to do much to your build in the scheme of things.Hello, I am considering making a Magsorc healer for PvE.
But...
I also want it to have high damage potential for PvP stealth ganking at times. Which I know would be highest on High Elf.
So my question is how does the healing potential compare between the 6% healing done of Argonian and 258 spell damage + 1000 magicka of High Elf.
Spell damage is the stronger stat. Not only does it have more modifiers, but 258 spell damage > 6% healing done in terms of healing throughput. The amount of spell damage glyphs you add as a healer depends on how well you can sustain them.
If you're looking for the math, you can thank The Asian God. You can ignore the bit about Sorcs, as Pets no longer scale off of Max Magicka exclusively.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFMFgIaiSk&list=PL8lTY87f8mt0O-LidRLUJbrpMxwpxJZwn&index=55
Wouldn't that depend on how much one have invested in healing already, however?
To make numbers simple, as an example, let's say we had 100 for our healing power. 50 spell damage would give 150 healing power total, where 5% increased healing would give 105 healing power total. But if we had 1000 for healing power, 50 spell damage and 5% increased healing would be the same for total healing power. If we had 10,000 healing power, 50 spell damage would give 10,050 healing power total, and 5% increased healing would give 10,500 healing power total.
So a static number would be better or worse than a percentage depending on how much one has already invested into healing power (it also varies depending on where the stats are entered into the formula but I'm ignoring that for now). Effectively, if one wanted to max out healing, healing% will give more healing than extra spell damage; spell damage will give more healing only if one is not specced as a healer primarily.
Of course, this is purely talking about healing power, not the other differences between the two.
Anyway, do you have any clarification on this? I can't watch the video, being at work right now, if that offers clarification I'm missing.
The additional healing would only benefit you if you had an extraordinary amount of spell damage already to be more of an increase than a base spell damage increase. To the extent that you may not even be able to reach the threshold to where that would be possible, or your entire build would have to be centered around spell damage to the detriment of everything else. As it is, I believe even a base Magicka armor bonus provides more or at least comparable throughput. That is also addressed in the video.
You have to also consider the amount of spell damage buffs and modifiers compared to healing done, as well.
Thanks for the response. It might be worth my time someday, quantifying how many resources and options players have to distribute to healing vs. spell damage, it seems. Like, just as an example, does it take fewer champion points invested in healing or damage, when distributing points in such a way that the boosts between the two are even. Because if it takes fewer points to invest in healing, that might mean you have more points to spend on other things too, which you might not have with speccing just into damage.
I mean, that's the rub isn't it with just DPSes, trying to balance spell crit power, spell crit chance, and spell damage, to get the biggest effect - this is just adding in healing done, healing received, healing taken, heal crit chance, and heal crit power, to all of that.
I teach math and this still is a lot even for me.
If you watch the video, Asian God shows all of his work - he does that with all of his theorycrafting. It's a shame we lost him to FF14, because he did a lot of the necessary math to add insight to the game that wasn't really there before.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"2
