Pterion87 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Unlike Magicka Warden, Stamden is getting some good changes. Hemorrhage & Bleed on Wild Guardian is great. But there's some things we should look at:

1. Warden has 0 Bleed Passives, If we want our Bleedy Boy to be the Bleedy Boy, I'd suggest changing the Piercing Cold Passive to include Bleed and removing Magic.
2. Cutting Dive is too slow, speed it up a smidge, also the ranged off balance aspect should go, just make it like Fetcher Infection, every second cast does the Bleed DoT
3. Now although I think Sub Assault is fine, the double burst is fine. Just Make it bleed.
4. Also let's add Snare Removal/immunity onto Falcon's Swiftness

Something else I've thought about is Necropotence, What if it added Stam and Magicka, or Added whichever value is higher, might be an interesting thought experiment.
Anyways there's some thoughts.

Nope wardens are ok rn.

Citation needed.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

To be fair, Stamina Warden has been getting a lot over the last bit. Warden Healer fits its Niche really well. Tank Warden is fine even though you really only need a few skills from the Frost tree (also the deep Fissure buff is great for Ice Staff Tanking)

But Magicka Warden have 0 Personality or Identity.
We just want it to be good.

frost staff / brittle mag warden is very strong and very unique. one of the most unique dps setups honestly.

There's some fairly quick things to do that can make MagDen feel at least a little better.

1. Make the mag shalks morph elemental based on what staff you have (default to mag damage if you don't have a staff on). Ice Wardens get to maximize the frost damage, and standard MagDen can have more fire damage boosted by Encratis.
2. Do something about the cliff racer. Outside of Bleed Wardens trying to maximize stacks, nobody really uses it, and I don't think the Bleed Wardens particularly "like" it.

prof_doom wrote: »

There's some fairly quick things to do that can make MagDen feel at least a little better.

1. Make the mag shalks morph elemental based on what staff you have (default to mag damage if you don't have a staff on). Ice Wardens get to maximize the frost damage, and standard MagDen can have more fire damage boosted by Encratis.
2. Do something about the cliff racer. Outside of Bleed Wardens trying to maximize stacks, nobody really uses it, and I don't think the Bleed Wardens particularly "like" it.

it'd be nice i suppose, but it wouldn't exactly give dps a reason to use it in pve. sub is so far above fissure that a damage type change only effects pvp a tiny amount.

Runefang wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

There's some fairly quick things to do that can make MagDen feel at least a little better.

1. Make the mag shalks morph elemental based on what staff you have (default to mag damage if you don't have a staff on). Ice Wardens get to maximize the frost damage, and standard MagDen can have more fire damage boosted by Encratis.
2. Do something about the cliff racer. Outside of Bleed Wardens trying to maximize stacks, nobody really uses it, and I don't think the Bleed Wardens particularly "like" it.

it'd be nice i suppose, but it wouldn't exactly give dps a reason to use it in pve. sub is so far above fissure that a damage type change only effects pvp a tiny amount.

Would love to see a big buff to frostbite on top of more frost skills, then you'd see magden's close the gap without being OP.

I actually think frostbite is in a solid enough spot to use rn. It's not the best set. But it's easy and not bad. All it needs is indirect buffs via stuff like frost dmg bear and an AB4.0 rework.

At this point, I think Mag Warden will literally take anything. Personally I think a Frost Spammable should come from the Frost Tree, but if the best they can do is just make the mag morphs in Animal Companion Ice Damage, I'll take it.

In regards to the posts about Bleed Warden, I dont think warden should get a Bleed bonus passive since alot of their power is built into their Skills. Wild Guardian does 10% over Eternal.

In regards to Frost Warden, i do feel that more frost skills are needed. Though i do like the druid theme so morphs of Winter Embrace or new skill trees entirely.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

At this point, I think Mag Warden will literally take anything. Personally I think a Frost Spammable should come from the Frost Tree, but if the best they can do is just make the mag morphs in Animal Companion Ice Damage, I'll take it.

This is a better route imo just change the magic damage skills to frost damage. ZOS clearly has the warden as a Druid/Ranger so frost mage is out of the equation. Imo eternal guardian should have shipped dealing frost damage

The Druid/beast master thing again, you are completely ignoring a vital aspect of the Warden's Total Identity. Yes the Druid/Beast master aspect is there, but the Frost Aspect is essentially non-existent across all builds. Is it wrong to want impactful abilities across all Skill Lines?

We really just want options, what is the point of having +10% increased Frost Damage when we don't have the variety of Frost Damage Abilities to benefit from it?

I think it's so funny, sure I've posted some complete overhaul of things but the majority of suggestions are really simple changes that would have Magicka Warden heading in a good direction.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

The Druid/beast master thing again, you are completely ignoring a vital aspect of the Warden's Total Identity. Yes the Druid/Beast master aspect is there, but the Frost Aspect is essentially non-existent across all builds. Is it wrong to want impactful abilities across all Skill Lines?

We really just want options, what is the point of having +10% increased Frost Damage when we don't have the variety of Frost Damage Abilities to benefit from it?

I do think that the winters embrace skill tree should have a ranged CC skill imo, frozen gate should be reworked as well to something more damaged based.

And yet they didn't even touch it which is really confusing.

Aldoss wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

It’s just that you want it to be an ice mage.

Any further questions?

A true master of ice would be a warden with a ice spammable, not a skill like Dive. A ice netch tentacle, a ice stalactite... There are many ideas.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Wellsley wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

It’s just that you want it to be an ice mage.

Any further questions?

A true master of ice would be a warden with a ice spammable, not a skill like Dive. A ice netch tentacle, a ice stalactite... There are many ideas.

I'm scared to ask what an ice netch tentacle is

Similar to Lava Whip but with a netch tentacle instead of a whip and with ice not fire. It's just an idea. A new spammable could be an ice stalactite, ice vine or whatever, but I prefer that to a classic projectile like Dive or Flame Skull or Stone Giant.

Mr_Stach wrote: »

I would still argue that your main resource pool still shapes whether or not you're Stam or Mag. Yes Hybridization is here but you still fully invest into one resource for max damage potential. The Hybridization just means you always get to pick the best morph on every skill. Like if you are Max Mag, with a Destro Staff, using a Mag Spammable, are you not a Mag Build?

I have three Wardens and all of them are different,... well different styles at least. . I picked the class and weapon skills I wanted and adjusted their stats as needed.

Cliff Racers were a big part of the "Morrowind Experience"